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How long does it take to fix a offensive line?


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It takes until it’s done. While I’m anxious to move on from Mcgovern and Van Roten, you’ve got to play a few more games before you can say this line is as bad, or worse, than last years. 
 

Also, i would note that it probably was not the “plan” yo have van roten at RG.

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The chargers were ranked bottom five in pretty much every offensive line category last year. To put into context they gave up 196 pressures which ranked 2 worse last year, the Jets for how bad th

The C is typically the "leader" of the O line. The Jets have been a mostly pretty bad to mediocre team over the last 50 years, but they've almost always had good O lines. Why? Because they almost alwa

If you draft the way Mangini and Tanny did and you use FA the way Mangini and Tanny did, you have an elite offensive line in a year.  Brick, Faneca, Mangold, Moore, Woody.   If you draft and use FA th

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1 minute ago, Greensleeves said:

I just posted this in another thread: Bart Scott brought up a good point. The coaching staff may be partly responsible for the line performing the way they did. There is a lot of horizontal movement in a zone blocking scheme - said they should mix it up with a more 'man' vertical blocking scheme which would be more natural and easier with the line having so little experience together.

You don't bring in Lafleur and then give up on zone blocking week 1. The only way they will get better is for them to keep doing it until they master it. Abandoning it week 1 (even for a few plays) so they can play marginally better in the short term is not the right move imo. 

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Got to point the finger at the OL  CS.

FO has provided the 11th pick in the draft at LT.  The 14th pick in the draft at LG.  A C, RG, and RT who have played well on other teams.  Yet they come out and look like the worst OL in the NFL on Sunday.

Looks like a CS problem to me.  Guys aren't picking up the blitz, or any kind of stunt.  The confusion caused by giving Anderson #7 and having him rush from the inside while Burns came off the edge unblocked 5-7 times with no one picking him up until after half time was pathetic.  

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A good offensive line starts with a quality center, which is something we haven't had since Mangold retired. As far back as I could remember, the Jets had a center who was a pro-bowler, or on the cusp of being a pro-bowler. Between Maccagnan and JD, we have had atrocious centers. The rest of the line needs to step up, but the failure to acquire a quality center has been an abject failure of JD. 

If only there were a center available when James Morgan was selected. 

I'm still on the JD train, but I'm staying close to the emergency exit. 

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11 hours ago, Guilhermezmc said:

The chargers were ranked bottom five in pretty much every offensive line category last year.

To put into context they gave up 196 pressures which ranked 2 worse last year, the Jets for how bad they were gave up almost 40 pressures less than that.

From their 5 starters last year Sam Tevi (LT), Forrest Lamp (LG), Dan Feeney (C), Trai Turner (RG) and Bryan Bulaga (RT) the only one who remains is Bryan Bulaga.

Dan Feeney had a PFF grade of 48.2 that year to solve that they went all out and got the best ranked center in the NFL in Corey Linsley  while the Jets went for their sh*tty ex-center, who shouldn't even make a NFL team to be honest.

Edit: So to answer your question, yes they did have.

cleveland-boom-goes-the-dynamite-gif-1.gif

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Just now, Sonny Werblin said:

The C is typically the "leader" of the O line. The Jets have been a mostly pretty bad to mediocre team over the last 50 years, but they've almost always had good O lines. Why? Because they almost always had an above average C who was also a leader - Joe Fields, Jim Sweeney, Kevin Mahwe, Nick Mangold. Those were our Centers from 1975 to 2016 with the exception of the 1995, 1996 and 1997. What were those seasons like?

Anyway, it is pretty clear to me that our O line lacks a leader and that the leader of the O line is typically the C. If JD does not remedy this clear deficiency in the 2022 draft, he does not know what he is doing.

BTW, I think the Jet message to the last two first round QB's drip with irony..... To Darnold's parents "We'll do everything in our power to protect your son." and to Zach Wilson "Do not worry about carrying us, we will carry you."  You really can't make this sh*t up. 

Our GMs are the kind of guys who say "I'm only going to put the tip in", or "don't worry, I will pull out."

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1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

This. I also think we would have been best not trading up for AVT, not that I doubt him - I like him - but, pragmatically our draft could have been:

1. Zach

2. Elijah Moore (let’s face it, this is where they wanted to take him)

#66 and #86 could have address OL with two picks. The prospects were strong all the way thru R4. Plus, guys like Friermuth were there.

All of the talk pre-draft was how deep the OL class was this year, particularly for zone blocking.  I like Vera-Tucker, but if you are going to draft an OG in the first round (and trade up for him to boot), he better be an absolute stud, and quickly.

I personally thought it was an enormous lost opportunity to build up the OL by trading away those valuable 3rd round picks.

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6 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Our GMs are the kind of guys who say "I'm only going to put the tip in", or "don't worry, I will pull out."

Ha Ha! Totally agree. No Half Measures! Frankly, now that they've seen what Wilson IS, they need to protect him at all costs. That means multiple top picks on O lineman and/or breaking the bank in free agency.

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32 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

You don't bring in Lafleur and then give up on zone blocking week 1. The only way they will get better is for them to keep doing it until they master it. Abandoning it week 1 (even for a few plays) so they can play marginally better in the short term is not the right move imo. 

Disagree.  You adapt the scheme to fit the players, not the other way around.  Problem is, we have a mixed bag at OL.  McGovern and Van Roten are better suited to a zone scheme as they aren't road-grader type blockers.  Becton, AVT and Moses are suited to the more classic, step-punch-drive type scheme.  Fant can do either but he's a big-body as well, at 6'6" 325lbs.  This group is not the old Denver Broncos "Quick and Shifty" OL.  It's big and strong and built to move bodies, not dance with them.  The sooner they get a big anchor at center and shift to a man blocking scheme, the sooner they'll start running the ball with success.

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6 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

The C is typically the "leader" of the O line. The Jets have been a mostly pretty bad to mediocre team over the last 50 years, but they've almost always had good O lines. Why? Because they almost always had an above average C who was also a leader - Joe Fields, Jim Sweeney, Kevin Mahwe, Nick Mangold. Those were our Centers from 1975 to 2016 with the exception of the 1995, 1996 and 1997 seasons.  What were those seasons like?

Anyway, it is pretty clear to me that our O line lacks a leader and that the leader of the O line is typically the C. If JD does not remedy this clear deficiency in the 2022 draft, he does not know what he is doing.

BTW, I think the Jet message to the last two first round QB's drip with irony..... To Darnold's parents "We'll do everything in our power to protect your son." and to Zach Wilson "Do not worry about carrying us, we will carry you."  You really can't make this sh*t up. 

Mac treated the OL like an after thought.  But Mac was completely lost.

JD has attempted to do fix it, he's just made bad choices.

Fant, hoped he found a guy ready to break out.  He was wrong.  Fant is a back up level talent

Moses - couldn't beat out Fant, very sad.

Becton - well, really not sure what we have here - but it's concerning.  Seems like Wirfs was the better choice.

Clark - drafted in the 4th and couldn't see the field.  Yes he's hurt but he wasn't even 2nd string at the time.

McGovrn - signed him to a 3 year $27mm contract - He's simply not living up to that contract.  At all.

AVT - we just don't know.

Point is, JD's been trying - he's just been bad at it.

 

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As I bellowed in another thread about our offensive line woes.  I responded to a poster who pasted Joe D for not signing the notable veteran OL who were recently available.  Next year's offensive line will feature Becton at LT, AVT at LG and McDermott and Feeney in reserve.  That's it.  Oh, the practice squad guys are ours.  But they are UDFAs.  Fant, Moses, Edoga and Van Roten can all leave because their contracts are up.  As for the Center, McGovern - he has underperformed his contract and returns only after a pay cut and that is not likely. 

EDIT: We have Fant and Van Roten signed through next season.  We can move on from Fant for $1 million and we will.  We can move on from McGovern for $1.3 million and we will.  Van Roten would be a $3.5 dead money charge so he will return.

We are looking at three new starters next season and only McDermott is a valuable reserve.  That we lack anyone in the pipeline is just criminal.  As I wrote.

I love this optimism.  I truly do.  And I believe a priority must be to build the offensive line.

But Jack Conklin, Corey Lindsley and Trent Williams were never going to come to a bottom five NFL team.  These are desirable starters with plenty of tread on the tire.  Why on earth would they sign with the Jets when they will get comparable offers elsewhere?  Especially for an offensive lineman.  They know it is a five to six man dance, not one-on-one.  When there are weak links getting pushed around, guys get rolled up just like our expensive young Mr. Becton.  Had Trent Williams decided to sign with the Jets, the exact same thing would have happened to him.   The left tackle cannot block the interior too.  I note that the Panther Center - Matt Paradis - refused to sign with us and we ended up with McGovern who was the second best guy on the market.  We paid up for him too.  Paradis beat the snot out of us yesterday.  Bad teams cannot sign the good players unless they back up the truck.  After Trumaine Johnson, Bell and - yes - CJ Mosley we know a single player cannot turn things around.   We need to draft and extend our own people.    

The only way out of our offensive line hell is the draft.  What I saw yesterday convinced me that AVT may be part of the answer in the long run, but he is not going to be a force anytime soon.  The draft capital we spent on him would have yielded three starters had we simply kept to the value board.  We would not have had to throw them into the game either.  We could have still started Lewis, McGovern and Van Roten.  But at least there would be a  $$&^ing backup plan.  My problem is not with AVT - though I do question the wisdom of starting Becton and AVT after missing all or part of preseason.  They were not ready and it showed..  Not that we had any choice whatsoever.  Can you imagine if we threw in the backups?  And there were answers in the draft THIS SEASON.  Just kills me.

Look at the Chiefs.  They took their C Creed Humphrey in the 2d, their RT Louis Niang in the 3d and their RG Trey Smith in the 6th.  They also signed Thuney (he was NEVER coming here fellas) and traded for Orlando Brown.  A whole starting offensive line in one shopping spree.  A good one too (for gap schemes).   Could the Jets have gotten Brown and Thuney?  Not if either of them had any say in it.   Could we have drafted Humphrey, Niang and Smith?  Yes.  And it is exactly the sort of heavy - yet shrewd - investment we need if our line is ever going to gel.  Now Niang and Smith are not fits for the zone scheme, but there were multiple guys available who were fits and who went in the 3d round.  Wonderful Guard/Centers like Menerz and Green and the RT candidate Spencer Brown went in the third.  The Bills did not even need Brown and put him into the wine celler for seasoning.  These guys would have been bona-fide possible answers for the Jets if our 1s fail.  We have no answers, just veterans who are worse than the starters.  

Another whole season where we are playing band aids like Van Roten and people who are VERY likely to depart in free agency next year in Fant and Moses.  A whole year of snaps given to people who will not even be on the $^$&*%$ing team next season.  It doesn't have to be this way.  Our bench lacks any decent starting prospects.  I love what I saw from Grant Hermanns in the preseason, but he is still an UDFA.  Yet he is the best young OL prospect on the Jets this season after AVT.  That is just unacceptable.   We were not a good line.  How can you rebuild the #^&$%$ing team if your bench lacks decent starting prospects?  

Of all the teams in the league the Jets were the one team that should not have moved up early in the draft.   We just had too many needs.  Those two third round picks and the late first would have yielded all the help we needed.  Yes, I know we got back a late 4th (63 spots behind the late 3d we gave up).  But the starting interior prospects were gone by then (we could have taken Drew Dalman in the 4th instead of MC1).  We had the backs but we lacked interior OL prospects and Ray Charles could see it.  Instead, we play Van Roten who is not part of the future.  We also start both Moses and Fant and they are going to leave. 

Just criminal not to have some decent draft picks to insert as plan B.  

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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

I don't  know what game you watched but if you think Becton had a solid performance  until he was hurt, it certainly wasn't  the Jets

I thought he was average, you thought he was Wayne Hunter.

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18 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

As I bellowed in another thread about our offensive line woes.  I responded to a poster who pasted Joe D for not signing the notable veteran OL who were recently available.  Next year's offensive line will feature Becton at LT, AVT at LG and McDermott and Feeney in reserve.  That's it.  Oh, the practice squad guys are ours.  But they are UDFAs.  Fant, Moses, Edoga and Van Roten can all leave because their contracts are up.  As for the Center, McGovern - he has underperformed his contract and returns only after a pay cut and that is not likely. 

 

I appreciate your posts, and you add a lot to this board, but that's wrong.

Fant  and Van Roten are signed through 2022. McGovern is also signed for just north of $10M, which would put him just in or outside of the top 10 paid centers.  With 4 picks in the first two rounds, and another year where the Jets are among the offseason salary cap champions,  JD still has a lot of resources at his disposal to address the OL. 

But before we all jump off the cliff after one week, let's remember that this is a new blocking scheme, and the line hasn't played together all camp - including our rookie first rounder who hadn't even played in the preseason. It's going to take a few weeks to see what we have. 

 

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57 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

As I bellowed in another thread about our offensive line woes.  I responded to a poster who pasted Joe D for not signing the notable veteran OL who were recently available.  Next year's offensive line will feature Becton at LT, AVT at LG and McDermott and Feeney in reserve.  That's it.  Oh, the practice squad guys are ours.  But they are UDFAs.  Fant, Moses, Edoga and Van Roten can all leave because their contracts are up.  As for the Center, McGovern - he has underperformed his contract and returns only after a pay cut and that is not likely. 

We are looking at three new starters next season and only McDermott is a valuable reserve.  That we lack anyone in the pipeline is just criminal.  As I wrote.

I love this optimism.  I truly do.  And I believe a priority must be to build the offensive line.

But Jack Conklin, Corey Lindsley and Trent Williams were never going to come to a bottom five NFL team.  These are desirable starters with plenty of tread on the tire.  Why on earth would they sign with the Jets when they will get comparable offers elsewhere?  Especially for an offensive lineman.  They know it is a five to six man dance, not one-on-one.  When there are weak links getting pushed around, guys get rolled up just like our expensive young Mr. Becton.  Had Trent Williams decided to sign with the Jets, the exact same thing would have happened to him.   The left tackle cannot block the interior too.  I note that the Panther Center - Matt Paradis - refused to sign with us and we ended up with McGovern who was the second best guy on the market.  We paid up for him too.  Paradis beat the snot out of us yesterday.  Bad teams cannot sign the good players unless they back up the truck.  After Trumaine Johnson, Bell and - yes - CJ Mosley we know a single player cannot turn things around.   We need to draft and extend our own people.    

The only way out of our offensive line hell is the draft.  What I saw yesterday convinced me that AVT may be part of the answer in the long run, but he is not going to be a force anytime soon.  The draft capital we spent on him would have yielded three starters had we simply kept to the value board.  We would not have had to throw them into the game either.  We could have still started Lewis, McGovern and Van Roten.  But at least there would be a  $$&^ing backup plan.  My problem is not with AVT - though I do question the wisdom of starting Becton and AVT after missing all or part of preseason.  They were not ready and it showed..  Not that we had any choice whatsoever.  Can you imagine if we threw in the backups?  And there were answers in the draft THIS SEASON.  Just kills me.

Look at the Chiefs.  They took their C Creed Humphrey in the 2d, their RT Louis Niang in the 3d and their RG Trey Smith in the 6th.  They also signed Thuney (he was NEVER coming here fellas) and traded for Orlando Brown.  A whole starting offensive line in one shopping spree.  A good one too (for gap schemes).   Could the Jets have gotten Brown and Thuney?  Not if either of them had any say in it.   Could we have drafted Humphrey, Niang and Smith?  Yes.  And it is exactly the sort of heavy - yet shrewd - investment we need if our line is ever going to gel.  Now Niang and Smith are not fits for the zone scheme, but there were multiple guys available who were fits and who went in the 3d round.  Wonderful Guard/Centers like Menerz and Green and the RT candidate Spencer Brown went in the third.  The Bills did not even need Brown and put him into the wine celler for seasoning.  These guys would have been bona-fide possible answers for the Jets if our 1s fail.  We have no answers, just veterans who are worse than the starters.  

Another whole season where we are playing band aids like Van Roten and people who are VERY likely to depart in free agency next year in Fant and Moses.  A whole year of snaps given to people who will not even be on the $^$&*%$ing team next season.  It doesn't have to be this way.  Our bench lacks any decent starting prospects.  I love what I saw from Grant Hermanns in the preseason, but he is still an UDFA.  Yet he is the best young OL prospect on the Jets this season after AVT.  That is just unacceptable.   We were not a good line.  How can you rebuild the #^&$%$ing team if your bench lacks decent starting prospects?  

Of all the teams in the league the Jets were the one team that should not have moved up early in the draft.   We just had too many needs.  Those two third round picks and the late first would have yielded all the help we needed.  Yes, I know we got back a late 4th (63 spots behind the late 3d we gave up).  But the starting interior prospects were gone by then (we could have taken Drew Dalman in the 4th instead of MC1).  We had the backs but we lacked interior OL prospects and Ray Charles could see it.  Instead, we play Van Roten who is not part of the future.  We also start both Moses and Fant and they are going to leave. 

Just criminal not to have some decent draft picks to insert as plan B.  

Except the Browns were terrible when Conklin signed with them. They were coming off a 6-win season and the Jets coming off a 7-win season. They got him at a $3-4MM/year discount below what the Jets were supposedly going to ink him to. There's no evidence Douglas even made him an offer. 

Orlando Brown? He'd have happily taken an extension from anyone willing to make him a starting LT. If the Jets made him a trade offer before KC was even in the picture, and offered him a $20MM+ contract and a starting LT job? There's no reason to believe he'd have turned it down. But the Chiefs offered nothing until the draft arrived. 

Thuney? Yeah, sure. I'll buy that, after leaving New England, all other things being equal he wasn't signing with the Jets over the Chiefs (who already made him the highest paid guard).

Except what's conveniently left out is that Thuney followed the money. It's not as though he took any kind of discounted contract to go to KC instead. He got the highest guard contract in history - by a $2MM/year margin - where the only one making more is Scherff because he was double-franchise tagged after his top-5 pick 5th yr option $.

Truth is, unless the Jets made him an $18MM/yr offer, you'll never know whether or not he'd have still signed with KC. ($18MM might have been enough to overcome the attraction of playing with the Chiefs over the Jets, plus also overcoming the MO tax rate which is half what it is here in his bracket).

The rest is just speculation based on... well it's based on nothing than purely subjective speculation to give Joe Douglas cover. The last player who turned down the same or less money from another team was Kirk Cousins, who just didn't want to be in a northeast metropolis. 

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1 hour ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

A good offensive line starts with a quality center, which is something we haven't had since Mangold retired. As far back as I could remember, the Jets had a center who was a pro-bowler, or on the cusp of being a pro-bowler. Between Maccagnan and JD, we have had atrocious centers. The rest of the line needs to step up, but the failure to acquire a quality center has been an abject failure of JD. 

If only there were a center available when James Morgan was selected. 

I'm still on the JD train, but I'm staying close to the emergency exit. 

Thats crazy because there was a 1st all pro center in free agency and JD didn't even offer him

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57 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

Just criminal not to have some decent draft picks to insert as plan B.  

Biadasz, Damien Lewis and Cushenberry is just a sample of the OL that JD could have drafted last year, rather than the four guys he drafted in rounds 3-4 who will end up cut. 

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1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Except the Browns were terrible when Conklin signed with them. They were coming off a 6-win season and the Jets coming off a 7-win season. They got him at a $3-4MM/year discount below what the Jets were supposedly going to ink him to. There's no evidence Douglas even made him an offer. 

Orlando Brown? He'd have happily taken an extension from anyone willing to make him a starting LT. If the Jets made him a trade offer before KC was even in the picture, and offered him a $20MM+ contract and a starting LT job? There's no reason to believe he'd have turned it down. But the Chiefs offered nothing until the draft arrived. 

Thuney? Yeah, sure. I'll buy that, after leaving New England, all other things being equal he wasn't signing with the Jets over the Chiefs (who already made him the highest paid guard).

Except what's conveniently left out is that Thuney followed the money. It's not as though he took any kind of discounted contract to go to KC instead. He got the highest guard contract in history - by a $2MM/year margin - where the only one making more is Scherff because he was double-franchise tagged after his top-5 pick 5th yr option $.

Truth is, unless the Jets made him an $18MM/yr offer, you'll never know whether or not he'd have still signed with KC. ($18MM might have been enough to overcome the attraction of playing with the Chiefs over the Jets, plus also overcoming the MO tax rate which is half what it is here in his bracket).

The rest is just speculation based on... well it's based on nothing than purely subjective speculation. The last player who turned down the same or less money from another team was Kirk Cousins, who just didn't want to be in a northeast metropolis. 

The fact that we lost conklin to the browns and gave george fant 10m a year is mindbogglin

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2 hours ago, Claymation said:

The Jets just drafted MC, let's see what he is before writing him off. They have gaping holes at edge, CB, IOL, TE and RT. 

MC is crap he does not run hard at all and he plays slower than his so called speed would suggest . hes got to get out of that dance mode when he sees and opening and hit it hard or he wont last and i think the coaching staff sees this

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1 hour ago, shuler82 said:

I appreciate your posts, and you add a lot to this board, but that's wrong.

Fant  and Van Roten are signed through 2022. McGovern is also signed for just north of $10M, which would put him just in or outside of the top 10 paid centers.  With 4 picks in the first two rounds, and another year where the Jets are among the offseason salary cap champions,  JD still has a lot of resources at his disposal to address the OL. 

But before we all jump off the cliff after one week, let's remember that this is a new blocking scheme, and the line hasn't played together all camp - including our rookie first rounder who hadn't even played in the preseason. It's going to take a few weeks to see what we have. 

 

I just checked Spotrac and you are correct about Fant and Van Roten.  We disagree about McGovern.  We can move on for a dead charge of $1.3 and we will.  

EDIT: We can move on from Fant for $1 million and we will.  Van Roten has a $3.5 cap charge next season so he will return.

But my point is not really about who is signed and who is not.  Nor is my point about the play of the Jets' O-line last week.  I did not expect different results.  I predicted 21-20 Jets out of optimism and was off by a touchdown. 

It is really a reaction to the Becton injury and the fact that he got hurt when the interior line collapsed - again.  It exposed the fact that we will now devote a whole year of snaps at four spots to players who are not part of anyone's future.  Who cares if they are under contract?!?   When Clark went down, we lost our chance to begin giving snaps to young players who had a chance to develop into above average starters.   You know, the way the rest of the league does it.   The Jets are unlikely to improve until we start stocking the cupboard like a 2-14 team.

I am not jumping off the cliff.   I was never on the cliff.  We are not contenders.   I predict 5-12 and would have before the draft.  We are undergoing way too much change for everything to fall perfectly.  It is not about the results anymore.  I wear the green and that's it.  

I am just pissed we have no draft picks on the bench.  Wasting another year of NFL starting snaps on "retreads", "never weres" and "has beens" with a future comprised of UDFAs.  It is such a low percentage play when you had room for four young starters and knew it going into the draft.  I wish there was a flaw in my logic, but there isn't.

There is no doubt that help is on the way in next year's draft.  But what about this year's draft?  A whole year of snaps at four spots into the fireplace.

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31 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The rest is just speculation based on... well it's based on nothing than purely subjective speculation to give Joe Douglas cover.

I am not giving Joe Douglas cover (nor do I want to fire him - I prefer continuity). 

But I am pissed that our OL cupboard is bare.  Do I give him a pass on expensive free agents?  Yeah.  Nobody builds a team that way and our expensive free agents have not moved the needle for the Jets.  Who was our last decent free agent?  LaRon Landry?   Expensive free agents are for contenders and we are not contenders.  And that is not speculation.

You can fill one OL spot with jetsom and flotsom from around the league.  The rest has to be draft picks and homegrown players from your pipeline.  We had room for four young starters.  We brought in one.   It is just unacceptable.   

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2 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

You don't bring in Lafleur and then give up on zone blocking week 1. The only way they will get better is for them to keep doing it until they master it.

completely and empirically wrong. 

You don't take over a locker room and say you all need to adjust to fit THIS scheme. These are purebreds. You work with what you have and scheme to the talent available. Running and developing the "Shanny/LaFleur" system is a proverbial process. You lean on your playmakers to do what they do - and HOW they do it in the meantime.

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2 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

The C is typically the "leader" of the O line. The Jets have been a mostly pretty bad to mediocre team over the last 50 years, but they've almost always had good O lines. Why? Because they almost always had an above average C who was also a leader - Joe Fields, Jim Sweeney, Kevin Mahwe, Nick Mangold. Those were our Centers from 1975 to 2016 with the exception of the 1995, 1996 and 1997 seasons.  What were those seasons like?

Anyway, it is pretty clear to me that our O line lacks a leader and that the leader of the O line is typically the C. If JD does not remedy this clear deficiency in the 2022 draft, he does not know what he is doing.

BTW, I think the Jet message to the last two first round QB's drip with irony..... To Darnold's parents "We'll do everything in our power to protect your son." and to Zach Wilson "Do not worry about carrying us, we will carry you."  You really can't make this sh*t up. 

Yeah they’ll carry Zach alright 

Soccer Fail GIF

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Just now, Paradis said:

completely and empirically wrong. 

You don't take over a locker room and say you all need to adjust to fit THIS scheme. These are purebreds. You work with what you have and scheme to the talent available. Running the "Shanny/LaFleur" system a proverbial process. You lean on your playmakers to do what they do - and HOW they do it in the meantime.

Well, i think you are completely and "empirically' wrong. But it's definitely a cute way of pretending you are an authority on the subject. I give you a B for trying. 

You don't give up on a system because they players aren't great at it week 1. If you believe in the system, and the players, then you give the players time to learn and become proficient in the system. Can Lafleur add a few "non-zone blocking schemes" here and there? Sure. Can't hurt and maybe they did. But they aren't going to be able to perfect Lafleur's system if they give up on it Week 1 because some random dudes on the internet think the players will NEVER grasp it. 

What was clearly "empirically wrong", was the assumption that an entirely new system with a rookie QB would be a success from day 1. You guys need to relax and give everyone, Zach, Lafleur and the lineman time before we abandon ship on a system our OC was brought in to run. 

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39 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

MC is crap he does not run hard at all and he plays slower than his so called speed would suggest . hes got to get out of that dance mode when he sees and opening and hit it hard or he wont last and i think the coaching staff sees this

On 4 carries? 

Ok then. Perine time then! At least he can block.

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10 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Well, i think you are completely and "empirically' wrong. But it's definitely a cute way of pretending you are an authority on the subject. I give you a B for trying. 

You don't give up on a system because they players aren't great at it week 1. If you believe in the system, and the players, then you give the players time to learn and become proficient in the system. Can Lafleur add a few "non-zone blocking schemes" here and there? Sure. Can't hurt and maybe they did. But they aren't going to be able to perfect Lafleur's system if they give up on it Week 1 because some random dudes on the internet think the players will NEVER grasp it. 

What was clearly "empirically wrong", was the assumption that an entirely new system with a rookie QB would be a success from day 1. You guys need to relax and give everyone, Zach, Lafleur and the lineman time before we abandon ship on a system our OC was brought in to run. 

 

sighing-1007200328-650x450-650x428.jpg

 

You missed the whole part about developing the scheme. We don't have the pieces/experience upfront to run Lafleur's dream O this year.

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7 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

 

 

You missed the whole part about developing the scheme. We don't have the pieces/experience upfront to run Lafleur's dream O this year.

Sorry but this makes zero sense.

You think the best way to develop the scheme and get the players ready for it, is to abandon it week 1 and run a different scheme?  

Not sure you can "empirically" establish that not running a system will  help the players get better at, but good luck with that.

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1 minute ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Sorry but this makes zero sense.

You think the best way to develop the scheme and get the players ready for it, is to abandon it week 1 and run a different scheme?  

Not sure you can "empirically" establish that not running a system will  help the players get better at, but good luck with that.

you've never coached before. I understand. Tone down the animosity. 

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