Week 2 Updates

[The Crusher]

Just now, JETSALLDAY24X said:

Pretty bold statement based 1 week and considering the Panthers are far more talented team than the Pats are. 

Patriots defense is pretty legit. Belicheck has a history of destroying rookie QB's to the point they see their fallen ancestors. Pats O line gets to hold as much as they need. Have you even seen Mac Jones pace? Have you?

[NamathToCaster]

50 minutes ago, IndianaJet said:

While I'm not a Becton hater at all....in fact quite the opposite, I have a feeling the Oline is going to be much better with Fant at LT and Moses at RT.

Just this gut feeling I gotz.

Like the positive attitude.  Let's hope it works out.  

[munchmemory]

6 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Patriots defense is pretty legit. Belicheck has a history of destroying rookie QB's to the point they see their fallen ancestors. Pats O line gets to hold as much as they need. Have you even seen Mac Jones pace? Have you?

It's more an "amble" or "strut".

[Alentador31]

1 hour ago, Lith said:

 

Not to derail the thread, but again Saleh's comments highlight the emphasis that this coaching staff places on ensuring the WRs they put on the field know the playbook.

[JETSALLDAY24X]

11 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Patriots defense is pretty legit. Belicheck has a history of destroying rookie QB's to the point they see their fallen ancestors. Pats O line gets to hold as much as they need. Have you even seen Mac Jones pace? Have you?

They had 8 penalties and 4 fumbles last week. (At home) This is Mac Jones first game on the road. What happend with the Jets oline last week was alot of communication problems. With Cole/Crowder back id be stunned if the Jets don't run alot more spread and force them to have to cover. 

[nycdan]

1 hour ago, Lith said:

Coach was asked if longer could mean season ending -- he does not know the answer to that.

As long as he's back in time for the first playoff game.

.....

.....

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, Lith said:

Coach was asked if longer could mean season ending -- he does not know the answer to that.

I'm assuming we don't see Becton again this season. Better to prepare for the worst and then be pleasantly surprised if he is able to make it back before then. 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Lith said:

 

"The Crowder"

[The Crusher]

Just now, JETSALLDAY24X said:

They had 8 penalties and 4 fumbles last week. (At home) This is Mac Jones first game on the road. What happend with the Jets oline last week was alot of communication problems. With Cole/Crowder back id be stunned if the Jets don't run alot more spread and force them to have to cover. 

Yes. They did. This is the Patriots, they will clean it up. Mac Jones has already hit his ceiling and will continue to produce the way he did last week. He will stand in a clean pocket, his line will hold and he will loft very accurate soft passes 6-9 yards giving the receivers chance to run with the ball. What happens with the Jets line will continue to happen for at least half this season. That zone blocking scheme is very difficult and they just haven’t had that many reps together. Yes, hopefully having Crowder and Cole back will help, but I see tons of zero blitz and No fear of our running game will lead to disaster fir Zach. I 100% hope I’m wrong and you are right! 

[Barry McCockinner]

30 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Patriots defense is pretty legit. Belicheck has a history of destroying rookie QB's to the point they see their fallen ancestors. Pats O line gets to hold as much as they need. Have you even seen Mac Jones pace? Have you?

The pace alone is simply devastating.

[Turd Ferguson]

16 minutes ago, Alentador31 said:

Not to derail the thread, but again Saleh's comments highlight the emphasis that this coaching staff places on ensuring the WRs they put on the field know the playbook.

He made several remarks like this after Sunday.

I think all those seeking answers about Denzel Mim and Eli Moore should take the hint.

[Turd Ferguson]

11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

"The Crowder"

Sounds like a Seinfeld term for someone who is constantly in your personal space.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, BroadwayRay said:

They didn't dial anything back.

Wrong.  I watched every snap.  In the first half, the Panthers sent more then 4 rushers on 12 of his 19 drops backs.  These were his stats:

Zach Wilson Passing in 1st Half:

0-of-4 on 3rd down

0-of-4 vs blitz

0-of-7 under duress

0-of-4 on play action

0-of-3 on deep passes (15+ air yds)

 

Naturally, holding a late game lead, they didnt blitz nearly as much in the 2nd half.  More than 4 rushers went on 6 of his 18 drops backs.  Only seeing 6, twice compared to 6 times in the first half.

They 100% dialed it back.  In an interview after the game, Brian Burns specifically said they wanted to give the QB and OL hell in the first half so they could wear them down and create more pressure with 4 man fronts late in the game.

I know you like challenging my every word, but you need to up your game if you're going to battle with me.  I'm elite at this sh*t. 

[batman10023]

1 hour ago, peekskill68 said:

H/T to D'Brickashaw Ferguson.  10,707 out of 10,708 possible snaps over a 10 year career (and the one missed snap was a trick play) ?

this is just an amazing stat -  he was wonderful.  

[batman10023]

12 minutes ago, Turd Ferguson said:

Sounds like a Seinfeld term for someone who is constantly in your personal space.

LOL.  this made me pee in my pants laughing.

[munchmemory]

14 minutes ago, Turd Ferguson said:

Sounds like a Seinfeld term for someone who is constantly in your personal space.

Fantastic.  Plus, you get props from me for the Norm reference and user image.  

[Sports-Journalism101]

2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Wrong.  I watched every snap.  In the first half, the Panthers send more then 4 rushers on 12 of his 19 drops backs.  These were his stats:

Zach Wilson Passing in 1st Half:

0-of-4 on 3rd down

0-of-4 vs blitz

0-of-7 under duress

0-of-4 on play action

0-of-3 on deep passes (15+ air yds)

 

Naturally, holding a late game lead, they didnt blitz nearly as much in the 2nd half.  More than 4 rushers went on 6 of his 18 drops backs.  Only seeing 6, twice compared to 6 times in the first half.

They 100% dialed it back.  In an interview after the game, Brian Burns specifically said they wanted to give the QB and OL hell in the first half so they could wear them down and create more pressure with 4 man fronts late in the game.

I know you like challenging my every word, but you need to up your game if you're going to battle with me.  I'm elite at this sh*t. 

A few comments about your analysis.  Your observation that "they didnt [sic] blitz nearly as much in the 2nd half" is not terribly persuasive.  Okay, maybe they actually brought less, but the Carolina Panthers were disguising their coverage packages and showing blitzers throughout the second half in order to rattle New York Jets Starting Quarterback Zachary Wilson.  Indeed, if you look at the throw that Zachary Wilson made to Denzel Mims (5th string Wide Receiver, New York Jets) at approximately 2 minutes and 45 second left to play in the Fourth Quarter of the New York Jets (0-1) vs. Carolina Panthers (1-0) game, you would note that Zachary Wilson stepped up into the pressure after Alijah Vera Tucker (Starting Left Guard, New York Jets) and Connor McGovern (Starting Center, New York Jets) failed to maintain their blocking assignment for more than approximately .78 seconds.  

What should we derive from this limited sample size.  Zachary Wilson improved in the Second Half of the New York Jets (0-1) vs. Carolina Panthers (1-0) game despite significant challenges including a blundering Offensive Line and sophisticated attempts to disguise and fake the existence of pressure.  Your bean counter analysis that there were more times when the Carolina Panthers sent more than 4 pass rushers in the first half, and therefore Zachary Wilson is not effective at handling designed blitzes is entirely unpersuasive.

What you are doing is something I was taught in sports journalism classes is something to avoid - i.e., mistaking correlation and causation.  In fact, one of my professors is one of the longest tenured members of the New York Jets beat reporting crew and he said that this is one of the first mistakes they always try to revise away when preparing their reports and analyses, even on blog posts...

Just my two cents.

[batman10023]

33 minutes ago, JETSALLDAY24X said:

They had 8 penalties and 4 fumbles last week. (At home) This is Mac Jones first game on the road. What happend with the Jets oline last week was alot of communication problems. With Cole/Crowder back id be stunned if the Jets don't run alot more spread and force them to have to cover. 

did they lose their holding privilege's?

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

While the Panthers definitely dialed it back a lot in the 2nd half, the OL did perform better when Becton went out of the game.

ahh I see the Panthers dialed it back ? Most teams dial it back when they have a one score lead and the other team has changed the momentum in the game and actually started to play football at a pro level.

[docdhc]

19 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Wrong.  I watched every snap.  In the first half, the Panthers send more then 4 rushers on 12 of his 19 drops backs.  These were his stats:

Zach Wilson Passing in 1st Half:

0-of-4 on 3rd down

0-of-4 vs blitz

0-of-7 under duress

0-of-4 on play action

0-of-3 on deep passes (15+ air yds)

 

Naturally, holding a late game lead, they didnt blitz nearly as much in the 2nd half.  More than 4 rushers went on 6 of his 18 drops backs.  Only seeing 6, twice compared to 6 times in the first half.

They 100% dialed it back.  In an interview after the game, Brian Burns specifically said they wanted to give the QB and OL hell in the first half so they could wear them down and create more pressure with 4 man fronts late in the game.

I know you like challenging my every word, but you need to up your game if you're going to battle with me.  I'm elite at this sh*t. 

I understand what you are saying, they changed some things in the second half based on having the lead.  Their stategy, though, wasn't to let the offense move the ball better and have Zack throw for 2 touchdowns and get back in the game.  It's difficult to continue max pressure an entire game.  I think completely discounting the offensive improvement in the second half by basically saying the Panthers allowed it is unfair.  Zach was much better in the second half and the offense as a whole was as well and it was encouraging no matter what the defensive calls were.

[JustInFudge]

10 minutes ago, Sports-Journalism101 said:

A few comments about your analysis.  Your observation that "they didnt [sic] blitz nearly as much in the 2nd half" is not terribly persuasive.  Okay, maybe they actually brought less, but the Carolina Panthers were disguising their coverage packages and showing blitzers throughout the second half in order to rattle New York Jets Starting Quarterback Zachary Wilson.  Indeed, if you look at the throw that Zachary Wilson made to Denzel Mims (5th string Wide Receiver, New York Jets) at approximately 2 minutes and 45 second left to play in the Fourth Quarter of the New York Jets (0-1) vs. Carolina Panthers (1-0) game, you would note that Zachary Wilson stepped up into the pressure after Alijah Vera Tucker (Starting Left Guard, New York Jets) and Connor McGovern (Starting Center, New York Jets) failed to maintain their blocking assignment for more than approximately .78 seconds.  

What should we derive from this limited sample size.  Zachary Wilson improved in the Second Half of the New York Jets (0-1) vs. Carolina Panthers (1-0) game despite significant challenges including a blundering Offensive Line and sophisticated attempts to disguise and fake the existence of pressure.  Your bean counter analysis that there were more times when the Carolina Panthers sent more than 4 pass rushers in the first half, and therefore Zachary Wilson is not effective at handling designed blitzes is entirely unpersuasive.

What you are doing is something I was taught in sports journalism classes is something to avoid - i.e., mistaking correlation and causation.  In fact, one of my professors is one of the longest tenured members of the New York Jets beat reporting crew and he said that this is one of the first mistakes they always try to revise away when preparing their reports and analyses, even on blog posts...

Just my two cents.

None of this has anything to do with any of the facts that I shared but thanks for your feelings! 

[Sports-Journalism101]

7 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

None of this has anything to do with any of the facts that I shared but thanks for your feelings! 

If you believe that what I expressed constitute "feelings" then I think we have severe epistemological differences and may never see eye-to-eye despite my efforts to clearly express my thoughts so that we can engage in level-headed and comprehensive discourse.  I will still attempt to engage with you in these discourses and maybe, one day, you will be able to respond to me in a way that opens a door, rather than in a manner that closes a door.  

[munchmemory]

14 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

None of this has anything to do with any of the facts that I shared but thanks for your feelings! 

Who's alternate username/personality is that?

[JustInFudge]

31 minutes ago, docdhc said:

I understand what you are saying, they changed some things in the second half based on having the lead.  Their stategy, though, wasn't to let the offense move the ball better and have Zack throw for 2 touchdowns and get back in the game.  It's difficult to continue max pressure an entire game.  I think completely discounting the offensive improvement in the second half by basically saying the Panthers allowed it is unfair.  Zach was much better in the second half and the offense as a whole was as well and it was encouraging no matter what the defensive calls were.

I never said that was only reason the OL played better or the only reason Zach played better was because Carolina dialed it back.  In fact, I said the OL played better when Becton went out and just simply stated a fact that Carolina dialed it back a bit in the 2nd half.  Is that only reason why the offense improved?  No, of course not but it's a factor for sure.  The other factor?  The Jets might be better off with Fant at LT and Moses at RT.

I've literally said numerous times, while I didnt think it was a great game for Zach and I'm not nearly as high on the his performance as others, it was very encouraging that he went from abysmal to adequate.  A young buck getting his ass kicked like that, definitely showed some balls and determination getting back up and playing better ball in the 2nd half but this thread wasnt about Zach, it was about the OL playing better when Becton went out.

[JustInFudge]

13 minutes ago, Sports-Journalism101 said:

If you believe that what I expressed constitute "feelings" then I think we have severe epistemological differences and may never see eye-to-eye despite my efforts to clearly express my thoughts so that we can engage in level-headed and comprehensive discourse.  I will still attempt to engage with you in these discourses and maybe, one day, you will be able to respond to me in a way that opens a door, rather than in a manner that closes a door.  

You posted feelings and theories, in response to a post with facts and data.  Step it up if you want discourse. 

[JustInFudge]

7 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Who's alternate username/personality is that?

I cant keep up, I'm terrible at the alt game.  The only one I can ever sniff out is DWC because his posts are all A+

[Sports-Journalism101]

1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

You posted feelings and theories, in response to a post with facts and data.  Step it up if you want discourse. 

If you go back and read what I posted, you will note that I was careful not to use the word "feelings" because one of the first lessons I received from my favorite sports journalism professor was that intuitions and feelings about a subject not backed up by film study are useless, even if you are acclaimed and work for ESPN.  

Accordingly, I gave you my analysis based on film study that the choice between sending blitzers and not sending blitzers was not a choice between tough to handle defense and roll-over softie defense, as you seemed to indicate.  Instead, the use of less blitzers was still fortified by feigned pre-snap pressure, which can be witnessed throughout the second half, and (even if that was not the case, and it is) it would be of no moment because the New York Jets Offensive Line could not in fact handle 4 rushers and Zachary Wilson was able to make big time throws with pressure in his face on numerous occasions.

I get the sense you are engaging in bad faith arguments at this point and so will leave it there unless you choose to actually engage with the positions I have developed based on intense and comprehensive film study.    

[Patriot Killa]

2 hours ago, IndianaJet said:

While I'm not a Becton hater at all....in fact quite the opposite, I have a feeling the Oline is going to be much better with Fant at LT and Moses at RT.

Just this gut feeling I gotz.

I was actually just thinking this same thing to myself yesterday.

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

In the first half, there was constantly 8 in the box and often they had 6 guys at the LOS, in many cases them sending them all.  They were bringing everything they had in the first half  In the 2nd half, up 2 scores, especially the last drive, they were only rushing 4.  I think they sent an extra defender twice during that drive.  They would still line up showing 6 at the LOS but 2 would drop into coverage. 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Sports-Journalism101 said:

If you go back and read what I posted, you will note that I was careful not to use the word "feelings" because one of the first lessons I received from my favorite sports journalism professor was that intuitions and feelings about a subject not backed up by film study are useless, even if you are acclaimed and work for ESPN.  

Accordingly, I gave you my analysis based on film study that the choice between sending blitzers and not sending blitzers was not a choice between tough to handle defense and roll-over softie defense, as you seemed to indicate.  Instead, the use of less blitzers was still fortified by feigned pre-snap pressure, which can be witnessed throughout the second half, and (even if that was not the case, and it is) it would be of no moment because the New York Jets Offensive Line could not in fact handle 4 rushers and Zachary Wilson was able to make big time throws with pressure in his face on numerous occasions.

I get the sense you are engaging in bad faith arguments at this point and so will leave it there unless you choose to actually engage with the positions I have developed based on intense and comprehensive film study.    

I already called this out.  So maybe your professor should have taught you to pay better attention.

 

[BroadwayRay]

1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

Wrong.  I watched every snap.  In the first half, the Panthers sent more then 4 rushers on 12 of his 19 drops backs.  These were his stats:

Zach Wilson Passing in 1st Half:

0-of-4 on 3rd down

0-of-4 vs blitz

0-of-7 under duress

0-of-4 on play action

0-of-3 on deep passes (15+ air yds)

 

Naturally, holding a late game lead, they didnt blitz nearly as much in the 2nd half.  More than 4 rushers went on 6 of his 18 drops backs.  Only seeing 6, twice compared to 6 times in the first half.

They 100% dialed it back.  In an interview after the game, Brian Burns specifically said they wanted to give the QB and OL hell in the first half so they could wear them down and create more pressure with 4 man fronts late in the game.

I know you like challenging my every word, but you need to up your game if you're going to battle with me.  I'm elite at this sh*t. 

I'm not interested in "challenging your every word," I'm just interested in pointing out the facts, and in this case the facts don't support your observations.

The reason I said the Panthers didn't dial things back is because there was nothing to dial back. The Panthers used a four-man pass rush on the vast majority of the passing play snaps, and it was with four-man rushes that they did their most damage. That was the fact throughout the game. They used the blitz on 11 snaps, according to PFF, and those resulted in just one sack. The other five sacks were with four-man rushes, a lot of them due to stunts and missed blocking assignments.

Furthermore, the blitzes weren't front loaded in the first half. They were spread out throughout the game. I counted about four or five snaps where they rushed more than four in the first half.

Maybe they did crowd the box more in the first half--don't know, haven't looked carefully at that--but I would assume that, no matter what Burns wants to say, they were forced to stop doing that because Wilson started to light things up in the second half.

So again, there was no dialing back of anything.

 

[peebag]

1 hour ago, Sports-Journalism101 said:

A few comments about your analysis.  Your observation that "they didnt [sic] blitz nearly as much in the 2nd half" is not terribly persuasive.  Okay, maybe they actually brought less, but the Carolina Panthers were disguising their coverage packages and showing blitzers throughout the second half in order to rattle New York Jets Starting Quarterback Zachary Wilson.  Indeed, if you look at the throw that Zachary Wilson made to Denzel Mims (5th string Wide Receiver, New York Jets) at approximately 2 minutes and 45 second left to play in the Fourth Quarter of the New York Jets (0-1) vs. Carolina Panthers (1-0) game, you would note that Zachary Wilson stepped up into the pressure after Alijah Vera Tucker (Starting Left Guard, New York Jets) and Connor McGovern (Starting Center, New York Jets) failed to maintain their blocking assignment for more than approximately .78 seconds.  

What should we derive from this limited sample size.  Zachary Wilson improved in the Second Half of the New York Jets (0-1) vs. Carolina Panthers (1-0) game despite significant challenges including a blundering Offensive Line and sophisticated attempts to disguise and fake the existence of pressure.  Your bean counter analysis that there were more times when the Carolina Panthers sent more than 4 pass rushers in the first half, and therefore Zachary Wilson is not effective at handling designed blitzes is entirely unpersuasive.

What you are doing is something I was taught in sports journalism classes is something to avoid - i.e., mistaking correlation and causation.  In fact, one of my professors is one of the longest tenured members of the New York Jets beat reporting crew and he said that this is one of the first mistakes they always try to revise away when preparing their reports and analyses, even on blog posts...

Just my two cents.

DWC's brighter cousin.

[The Crusher]

25 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Who's alternate username/personality is that?

Reminds me of that dude from JI that got into it with @Warfish. Had an avatar with orange colored sunglasses I think? 

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Belicheck is going to dismantle this offense. Personally I would start Mike White. Its going to be horrible to watch. Horrible. "You get a zero blitz' "you get a zero blitz" "you get a zero blitz" Meanwhile Mac Jones will stand back and toss soft 7-9 yard passes to his receivers as the Patriot O line has our defense line in head locks and suplexing them. I'm going to drive balls at 1230, against a brick wall to see how many come back and hit me in my nuts. Still better time than watching this mess. 

This is EXACTLY how this game is going to go..

Only thing is I'll actually be missing the game...I'll watch it probably Monday

Two Day music festival in. Asbury Park!  

[SOJ]

1 hour ago, JETSALLDAY24X said:

They had 8 penalties and 4 fumbles last week. (At home) This is Mac Jones first game on the road. What happend with the Jets oline last week was alot of communication problems. With Cole/Crowder back id be stunned if the Jets don't run alot more spread and force them to have to cover. 

get ready to be stunned,,, This O is predicated on the run game and play action, quick passes.  Jets  had like 2.6 YPC last week so get ready for 3rd a long ... a lot. 

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

I'm not interested in "challenging your every word," I'm just interested in pointing out the facts, and in this case the facts don't support your observations.

The reason I said the Panthers didn't dial things back is because there was nothing to dial back. The Panthers used a four-man pass rush on the vast majority of the passing play snaps, and it was with four-man rushes that they did their most damage. That was the fact throughout the game. They used the blitz on 11 snaps, according to PFF, and those resulted in just one sack. The other five sacks were with four-man rushes, a lot of them due to stunts and missed blocking assignments.

Furthermore, the blitzes weren't front loaded in the first half. They were spread out throughout the game. I counted about four or five snaps where they rushed more than four in the first half.

Maybe they did crowd the box more in the first half--don't know, haven't looked carefully at that--but I would assume that, no matter what Burns wants to say, they were forced to stop doing that because Wilson started to light things up in the second half.

So again, there was no dialing back of anything.

 

Oh, no like there totally was and I provided data points to prove it.  Thanks!