The real reason Denzel Mims is buried on the New York Jets’ depth chart

[Scott Dierking]

53 minutes ago, Albaniajet said:

Oh really?  We were forced to watch Jim Leonhard and Eric Smith both get torched by every TE on the planet for 10 years because multiple different head coaches thought they worked hard in practice

Not sure how this is a "work hard" situation. It can be many different things:

-We have been told that Mims had an "illness" that affected his off season and early training camp.

-We don't know what aspects that Mims is trailing in for earning reps. Kudos for the coaching staff for not making this public and being coy. I assume, they have been very direct with Mims. The fact that he has not publicly spouted off, probably lets you know that he has probably been told directly what he needs to do.

-The announcers last week during the game said "We were told Mims has his best practice of the year in Friday's walk through". This lets us know that something has been off with him and he is needing to work on something.

If Mims is being made an example of in earning playing time, I am all for that. I really don't believe that a new coaching staff and a relatively new GM are looking to sit best available options to spite a player and hurt the team.

If it makes Mims a better player in the long run, all the better.

[Scott Dierking]

8 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

If Gase was playing Smith over Mims this board would be up in arms

You are correct. Gase still being here would be a major problem. Good call out.

[Integrity28]

14 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

There’s def something there.  
 

I mean it feels like he was actually speaking to the fans, explaining why Mims isn’t playing. I hope Saleh isn’t one of those guys that really cares what us lunatics think.  

I think he was speaking to everyone. Current Jets, future Jets, ownership, GM, media, fans… everyone can hear this.

This is his standard. It is uncompromising. You now know what you have to do to be a Jet + and to get/keep a job. Honestly, this is what Jets fans have said they want in a leader for decades…

What they say they want vs. what they actually want is vastly different. They want to cry about crud and think they know better. 

[#27TheDominator]

11 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

If Gase was playing Smith over Mims this board would be up in arms

Not me!

[Fantasy Island]

18 hours ago, Warfish said:

TLDR:  Dumb, Lazy, or both.

Only explanation for a guy with his body and skills being buried behind guys who, frankly, are fringe bodies and talents at best.

Or................................it's an OC that can't adjust his " etched in stone play book from the mountain top" to fit a talented player's skill set.  

[FTL Jet Fan]

32 minutes ago, Lith said:

I think the difference is that we have a rookie QB.  They want versatile WRs who know the system and know the route tree that the QB can rely on.  Does not sound like Mims is there yet.  Appears as if he is taking a bit longer to learn the route tree than some of the other guys, so he is lower on the depth chart. 

I do think we see arole for him in the future, otherwise you send him to the practice squad, but it would appear they don't want to risk him being poached.  I think he can be a dangerous weapon for this team, and hope his role expands as the season goes on.

And I really want to be right about a player for a change.

 

I think this sums it. Way too much over thinking with the amount veteran WR’s we have. We need those vets out there for Wilson who can actually give feedback as to what they are seeing and the best way to exploit their matchups. I fully understand It is that 2nd year WR can’t get on the field issue that is wildly frustrating. We are fine at the moment now that we have Cole and Crowder back, to me Cole is underrated.  

 

[Warfish]

24 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

Or................................it's an OC that can't adjust his " etched in stone play book from the mountain top" to fit a talented player's skill set.  

This isn't the NBA, and Mims isn't so talented that the entire Offense needs designed around him. 

If you want to line up in support of the lazy player who can't learn the Offense, that's cool.  But I thought we wanted a team and staff that actually expected more from it's players.

What's more likely?  Mims not working hard enough or learning the O?  Or LaFluer consciously choosing to bench his "talented player" and instead start lesser players, in a "cut off his nose to spite his face" situation?

[football guy]

I kind of feared this would happen to him a long time ago when we signed Corey Davis. The cold hard truth is that Davis and Mims both play the same receiver role (X) as it's featured in this offense, and at this point of their careers, Davis is far more advanced as a route runner which makes him the superior option. They want the Y and Z to be guys who can make plays after the catch, and Mims is not a natural doing so. I think the playbook talk is overstated; the reality is he is not a very developed route runner and doesn't fully understand route running from a situational standpoint, which is required to play in this offense. He's more of a deep threat/contested ball catcher, and he's shown glimpses of being elite at it. 

I understand that the Jets have roles for their receivers, but I also think it's foolish for the Jets to not sprinkle Mims in much more. Don't pull an Adam Gase and put players in a box; Wilson is a natural throwing the deep ball, Mims is a natural going up for the ball deep. Get him involved. 

[GreenFish]

13 minutes ago, football guy said:

I kind of feared this would happen to him a long time ago when we signed Corey Davis. The cold hard truth is that Davis and Mims both play the same receiver role (X) as it's featured in this offense, and at this point of their careers, Davis is far more advanced as a route runner which makes him the superior option. They want the Y and Z to be guys who can make plays after the catch, and Mims is not a natural doing so. I think the playbook talk is overstated; the reality is he is not a very developed route runner and doesn't fully understand route running from a situational standpoint, which is required to play in this offense. He's more of a deep threat/contested ball catcher, and he's shown glimpses of being elite at it. 

I understand that the Jets have roles for their receivers, but I also think it's foolish for the Jets to not sprinkle Mims in much more. Don't pull an Adam Gase and put players in a box; Wilson is a natural throwing the deep ball, Mims is a natural going up for the ball deep. Get him involved. 

I remember you saying that when we signed Corey Davis.

Corey Davis is obviously our best WR. So it’s a tough break for Mims.

I get that Mims is purely an X, but couldn’t Davis move to the Z? He’s pretty versatile. I think he even played some slot when he was in TEN.

Having Davis, Mims and Moore on the field at the same time creates a lot of problems for defenses. 

[SAR I]

So we have an LT that is fragile/immobile, a WR that doesn't run routes well, and a RB that can't get on the field.

Why did Joe Douglas bring in a HC and OC that have no use for the premium players he drafted?  Becton, Mims, and Carter don't work?  That's unacceptable.  And don't get me started on no-tackles-on-Sunday Quinnen.  

SAR I

[peekskill68]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

Not sure how this is a "work hard" situation. It can be many different things:

-We have been told that Mims had an "illness" that affected his off season and early training camp.

-We don't know what aspects that Mims is trailing in for earning reps. Kudos for the coaching staff for not making this public and being coy. I assume, they have been very direct with Mims. The fact that he has not publicly spouted off, probably lets you know that he has probably been told directly what he needs to do.

-The announcers last week during the game said "We were told Mims has his best practice of the year in Friday's walk through". This lets us know that something has been off with him and he is needing to work on something.

If Mims is being made an example of in earning playing time, I am all for that. I really don't believe that a new coaching staff and a relatively new GM are looking to sit best available options to spite a player and hurt the team.

If it makes Mims a better player in the long run, all the better.

All your points are reasonable. The question I'm having is why a guy like Robbie Anderson, who had known issues with the precision of his patterns and some limitations with his route trees, was schemed into the game plan to help the team win, while Mims shows alot of physical talents but is close to being deactivated this Sunday because he can't master LaFleur's system...

[Jethead]

44 minutes ago, football guy said:

I kind of feared this would happen to him a long time ago when we signed Corey Davis. The cold hard truth is that Davis and Mims both play the same receiver role (X) as it's featured in this offense, and at this point of their careers, Davis is far more advanced as a route runner which makes him the superior option. They want the Y and Z to be guys who can make plays after the catch, and Mims is not a natural doing so. I think the playbook talk is overstated; the reality is he is not a very developed route runner and doesn't fully understand route running from a situational standpoint, which is required to play in this offense. He's more of a deep threat/contested ball catcher, and he's shown glimpses of being elite at it. 

I understand that the Jets have roles for their receivers, but I also think it's foolish for the Jets to not sprinkle Mims in much more. Don't pull an Adam Gase and put players in a box; Wilson is a natural throwing the deep ball, Mims is a natural going up for the ball deep. Get him involved. 

Mims is kind of like Mecole Hardman with KC. Obvious talent, but one dimensional. KC keeps trying to find a different answer at WR despite Hardman's speed and athleticism.

[Scott Dierking]

18 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

All your points are reasonable. The question I'm having is why a guy like Robbie Anderson, who had known issues with the precision of his patterns and some limitations with his route trees, was schemed into the game plan to help the team win, while Mims shows alot of physical talents but is close to being deactivated this Sunday because he can't master LaFleur's system...

1. My belief based on what I know on JD, is that he does not like guys with character issues. Robbie had (has) character issues. Did JD say last year that he made a mistake in not re-signing Robbie? Yes. But I believe that JD not looking to throw shade on a player. Other players notice that. Maybe I am wrong there.

2. I have not heard from JD or the coaching staff why Mims is not higher on the depth chart. Maybe I missed something. There has been allusion to that, but it could be a misdirect. Who knows? Again, the staff said to the announcers of last week's game that Mims did have his best practice of the year that Friday. So there is something there.

3. This coaching staff and GM do not have the luxury (a la a Bellichick and others) of teaching players "lessons", to their own demise. So, it has to be something that Mims is or is not doing. I view JD and Saleh as true football guys (in comparison to some of the most recent staff the Jets have had). 

 

[Augustiniak]

50 minutes ago, SAR I said:

So we have an LT that is fragile/immobile, a WR that doesn't run routes well, and a RB that can't get on the field.

Why did Joe Douglas bring in a HC and OC that have no use for the premium players he drafted?  Becton, Mims, and Carter don't work?  That's unacceptable.  And don't get me started on no-tackles-on-Sunday Quinnen.  

SAR I

Seems like the 2021 draft was about getting players who fit the new system, whereas 2020 was about drafting players based on player evaluations and future development.  It’s no surprise that bechton hasn’t adapted well to the new OL scheme and this new coaching staff doesn’t want to play mims. 

[Mogglez]

4 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

I’m not sure I ever heard anyone saying that Mims could play the Deebo role, maybe the Kendrick Bourne role.   Deebo has an entirely different skill set.   Moore is probably the best candidate to fill that role.   

It was something relayed to me by a contact.  Sorry, I should have clarified.

[doitny]

6 hours ago, Butterfield said:

The coaching staff should be doing this for all players.  Build your system around the players.

players come and go. so you would be changing your system every few years. its only the QB you do that for cause he will be he 10 plus years.

the problem with this is if you read @MR.GANGGREEN28 link then the WRs dont know the route until they see the defense. but you cant do that with Mims cause he doesn't know it yet. so now you want to run a few set plays for him. so now your asking the other WRs who are on the field to do something different than what they have been doing ALL summer. same with your rookie QB. 

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

No need to be a annoying little prick Paradis, as no one is "fellating" JD, least of all me. 

We both know the Jets Organization isn't going to do anything to JD during the 2021 season.  

So with that fact in hand, there is no harm (as a fan) in evaluating this team and it's results at year end.  

Be assured, if at year end all of JD's picks have underperformed and the team overall underperforms even my cynical expectations, I will not be "fellating" JD, I'll be calling for his replacement.

JD? lol i don't bring him up. If I'm going to be an annoying prick, it'll be large throbber, thank you. 

 

You're not overly fun to talk to these days..... It's become a one way conversation. Right or wrong you might want to consider the experience of your peers trying to have dialogue with you. 

[NYJ1]

10 hours ago, doitny said:

but then you reward a guy whos not performing well. 

i dont think Davis and Cole ran this offense where they were last year. and we know Crowder, Berrios and the Smiths didnt run it here. in 7 weeks since training camp started Mims is the only WR that doesn't get it? 

sorry but this isnt pee wee football where everyone gets to play cause your mommy brought your uniform. 

 

It's not about rewarding a player who they claim is not playing well, it's about WINNING. It's absurd that the CS isn't smart enough to find a way to utilize Mims on more than 3 plays. They say he's not playing well. The only problem with that is he passes the eye test with flying colors. Every time Mims gets a play he looks like the same excellent prospect we've always known him to be. Good coaches place players in position to do what they do best. Robert Saleh is NOT doing that. Instead, he's trying to get a good football player to conform to other jobs, which wouldn't necessarily EVER be his normal responsibility. Mims has excellent talent on go routes. It's for the a$$hole CS to expand their horizons so they can win a game.

[Paradis]

15 hours ago, Mogglez said:

The thing that frustrates me the most is Mims didn’t have this reputation in college.  By all accounts he was a hard worker.  At this point this is more than smoke though.  It’s a shame because everything I’ve heard behind the scenes was positive.  I 

I don’t know if it’s definitively from a lack of effort, but it’s really hard to ignore what Saleh said today.

 

 

This is all but settles it for me. I don't want to hang this on you (case you know i love you) but you're holding the bloody knife and glove and yet somehow looking around for clues.

The conversation needs to be with Mike LaFleur and his staff. Is it that the guy who's always been the hard working playmaker suddenly forgot how to do both, or is the approach and asks of our staff (brand new first gig) needing some time in the mirror. 

I know where I sit. Saleh needs to stop pretending this is all on Mims.

[Paradis]

42 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

It was something relayed to me by a contact.  Sorry, I should have clarified.

if the staff actually envisioned Mims in a Deebo role - then my concerns about Mike & co have gone from Curious to wtf.

[Augustiniak]

5 minutes ago, Paradis said:

This is all but settles it for me. I don't want to hang this on you (case you know i love you) but you're holding the bloody knife and glove and yet somehow looking around for clues.

The conversation needs to be with Mike LaFleur and his staff. Is it that the guy who's always been the hard working playmaker suddenly forgot how to do both, or is the approach and asks of our staff (brand new first gig) needing some time in the mirror. 

I know where I sit. Saleh needs to stop pretending this is all on Mims.

More than anything it sounds like a coaching staff that’s playing favorites.  They love moore and don’t like mims.  After moore sucked last week, saleh praised moore as he was justifying not playing mims.  All i can say is, they better be right.  If they lay another goose by halftime, nobody here is going to care that mims doesn’t know the entire route tree.  Those excuses will ring hollow.  

[Paradis]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

More than anything it sounds like a coaching staff that’s playing favorites.  They love moore and don’t like mims.  After moore sucked last week, saleh praised moore as he was justifying not playing mims.  All i can say is, they better be right.  If they lay another goose by halftime, nobody here is going to care that mims doesn’t know the entire route tree.  Those excuses will ring hollow.  

Yea.

It's remarkable who quickly i'm souring on this staff. Zach Wilson by all accounts looks like the real deal - and i'm worried for him. 

[Warfish]

20 minutes ago, Paradis said:

You're not overly fun to talk to these days..... It's become a one way conversation. Right or wrong you might want to consider the experience of your peers trying to have dialogue with you. 

You're not my Therapist, mate, stick to football.

You're correct, you referenced Mike (LaFluer), while most others are hard right now on JD, my mistake.  But it doesn't change my message.  no one who is preaching a "wait and see" approach after one game is "fellating" anyone, some folks are just not getting bent out of shape and counting out our GM (or Coach, or O-Co, or QB) after one poor game by this new group.

If you think LaFluer is in over his head, great.  He's not going anywhere in 2021, I think that's a given, so we'll just have to like it or lump it and see how he does over 17 games, not just one.  If he is indeed in over his head, we'll finish in the same place as usual in the O ranks, and that will speak for itself loud and clear.

All this over a player who can't earn his job, lol.  

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, peekskill68 said:

All your points are reasonable. The question I'm having is why a guy like Robbie Anderson, who had known issues with the precision of his patterns and some limitations with his route trees, was schemed into the game plan to help the team win, while Mims shows alot of physical talents but is close to being deactivated this Sunday because he can't master LaFleur's system...

This is basically the question we're all asking ourselves.

1) Is this coaching staff that rigid that if you're not an exact type we can't make it work, regardless of your talent?

Or

2) Mims is really that far behind and putting him on the field will have such a negative impact on the team that Jeff Smith needs to play ahead of him.

I can live with 2, while 1 would likely mean we're in for a new coaching staff in 3 years.

[Guilhermezmc]

The real question is why the **** do we need to Mims to play slot receiver if we have berrios crowder and elijah moore? Get the guy on the outside and give him some jump balls that he can make some plays on

[FidelioJet]

10 minutes ago, Guilhermezmc said:

The real question is why the **** do we need to Mims to play slot receiver if we have berrios crowder and elijah moore? Get the guy on the outside and give him some jump balls that he can make some plays on

Yup...let him run 15-20 yard back shoulders...All day.

ZW was great at that in college and it's perfectly suited for Mims.  

There is ZERO need for him to the learn the slot.  

[Paradis]

36 minutes ago, Warfish said:

You're not my Therapist, mate, stick to football.

 

lol jesus...If there's one thing i don't have time for it's the too proud middle-aged guy who responds with some "don't tell me how to life my life" trash

I am a therapist. deal with it. 

 

[Beerfish]

You can't 'sprinkle in' a deep threat wr imo.

 

[Paradis]

30 minutes ago, Guilhermezmc said:

The real question is why the **** do we need to Mims to play slot receiver if we have berrios crowder and elijah moore? Get the guy on the outside and give him some jump balls that he can make some plays on

Charges against M.L. mounting by the hour.

 

[Scotty Wooty Doo Doo]

Quote by Corey Davis made sometime in training camp-----

“Mims is really talented man, it’s really up to him, coming out here and doing the work every single day. The grind gets hard, it’s tough at times, even for me there are days I don’t want to come out here, but in order to get better you’ve got to do the things you don’t want to do. So for him it’s just that mental block and pushing past that, because he has all the physical attributes, mentally, I think that’s where his battle is”

Quote by Cimini -----

“There were six or seven plays in training camp where he ran the wrong route. It wasn’t dramatically wrong, not a total bust, but slight imperfections in his route running that caused the coaching staff to get on him. I don’t think he handled it well and he feels like he is being penalized for mistakes that some of the other receivers are making as well”

 

 

[Paradis]

4 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Not sure how this is a "work hard" situation. It can be many different things:

-We have been told that Mims had an "illness" that affected his off season and early training camp.

-We don't know what aspects that Mims is trailing in for earning reps. Kudos for the coaching staff for not making this public and being coy. I assume, they have been very direct with Mims. The fact that he has not publicly spouted off, probably lets you know that he has probably been told directly what he needs to do.

-The announcers last week during the game said "We were told Mims has his best practice of the year in Friday's walk through". This lets us know that something has been off with him and he is needing to work on something.

If Mims is being made an example of in earning playing time, I am all for that. I really don't believe that a new coaching staff and a relatively new GM are looking to sit best available options to spite a player and hurt the team.

If it makes Mims a better player in the long run, all the better.

how about you point to how Mike LaFleur has set up this Offense to succeed as well, instead of only presenting one side of this discussion. I mean that in a truly  "lets honor both sides of this relationship" ...these arent robots and LaFleur doesn't have a robust resume, working under Kyle S.'s shadow. 

Walk me throug why you've given Mike the default pass on this. OC's get fired all the time. 

[Paradis]

7 minutes ago, Scotty Wooty Doo Doo said:

Quote by Corey Davis made sometime in training camp-----

“Mims is really talented man, it’s really up to him, coming out here and doing the work every single day. The grind gets hard, it’s tough at times, even for me there are days I don’t want to come out here, but in order to get better you’ve got to do the things you don’t want to do. So for him it’s just that mental block and pushing past that, because he has all the physical attributes, mentally, I think that’s where his battle is”

Quote by Cimini -----

“There were six or seven plays in training camp where he ran the wrong route. It wasn’t dramatically wrong, not a total bust, but slight imperfections in his route running that caused the coaching staff to get on him. I don’t think he handled it well and he feels like he is being penalized for mistakes that some of the other receivers are making as well”

 

 

confirmation bias.

[Guilhermezmc]

[#27TheDominator]

55 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Yup...let him run 15-20 yard back shoulders...All day.

ZW was great at that in college and it's perfectly suited for Mims.  

There is ZERO need for him to the learn the slot.  

It's there a need for him to learn the options on the routes he does run?  Honestly, if he is just acting out because he feels put down and they make an example of him?  So what?  This board has celebrated and demanded that be done to be considerably better players like Abraham, WIlkerson and RIchardson.  You don't make a point holding Chris Herndon accountable.  Guys like Austin and Mims?  Maybe. 

[Scott Dierking]

50 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

Walk me throug why you've given Mike the default pass on this. OC's get fired all the time. 

Sure. It has been one game.