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The Mims reality


kmnj

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3 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Intelligence is a basic check the box thing you do in vetting guys before you spend a 2nd round early pick.....or am i assuming?

JD drafted the guy for Gase's system , Saleh inherited him . Lafleur claims he doesnt know the route tree , where to line up, its been documented and seen during training camp.  He missed a great deal of TC because of bad salmon so hes behind . he has o do his part to catch up  simple.  

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15 minutes ago, Scotty Wooty Doo Doo said:

JD drafted the guy for Gase's system , Saleh inherited him . Lafleur claims he doesnt know the route tree , where to line up, its been documented and seen during training camp.  He missed a great deal of TC because of bad salmon so hes behind . he has o do his part to catch up  simple.  

I thought JD tanked us? This is what I keep asking..

What is the strategy? Now we are saying we were trying to win in 2020?

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45 minutes ago, IndianaJet said:

The idea that Denzel Mims is the hill so many people on this board are choosing to die on is laughable.

If I cared enough, I could probably go back about 3 months on this board and find 90% of the Mimzy's here proclaiming he was a bust and a waste of a 2nd round pick.

Now all of a sudden he's the Prince That was Promised and the answer to all the Jets problems?

I hate the internet.

 

I think you're missing the overarching point here. People are worried that the CS are not making the right decisions. As an example, we started Fant over Moses at RT. So far in both games, Moses has looked far superior. 

Now Mims might not know all of the playbook but there is no way any young WR coming into a new system knows every single position and route tree. The bottom line is, if you have talent you should be on the field. And see it a lot in the NFL when guys who were burried on the depth chart come in and play great/better than who eas in front of them. Most recent example I can think of is Justin Herbet behind Taylor. 

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1 hour ago, Ken Schroy said:

Because the whole team sucked and Gase was lost for 2 years.

Adam Gase more than any coach I've ever seen, would dog house players and alienate them from the team in a heart beat for not buying into his garbage, he didnt treat Mims that way.

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

There were definitely some red flags last year with slow injury recovery and then when he came back he wasn't exactly used as much as you would expect given the fact the Jets had nothing to lose late in the year. 

Douglas knowing all of that decided to go out and sign Corey Davis and draft Moore early. 

Recovering slowly isnt a red flag, IMO.  And that's not the situation now.  This seems to be character.  In terms of usage, that was all Gase and him being a moron.  Mims playing over 80% of the snaps from week 7-16, just not getting targerts.

 

1 hour ago, bostonmajet said:

Gase had a different standard (or no standards whatsoever). This new coaching staff wants Mims to work harder and study more. It appears that Mims is making progress - hopefully soon. Either way - if we want a team full of team players and players that give 100% they need to take a hard line - maybe Mims makes it, maybe he doesn't. Not sure why the CS would sacrifice wins/Zack's progress over a dog house issue.

Where are you hearing he's making progress?  He was just a healthy scratch with Crowder out as well.

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Everything from the route tree to bad salmon isn't adding up here. JD did nothing but draft high character/team captain types. No way he would have drafted Mims if there was a concern he couldn't adapt, learn or fit in. I  still don't think we're getting anywhere close to the full story here...

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So much anger and drama for a kid with 24 catches and not even 400 career receiving yards and no TD's as yet......who spent most of last year hurt, and most of camp this year sick or on the sidelines.

The Mims thing might, possibly, maybe, be a little bit overblown.  Especially the conspiracy theory nature of some of the anger over him, i.e. the many "we're not getting the whole picture, something else must be going on!" stuff.  

He'll play when the Coaches think he is ready and that he is better than the other options. 

It's their jobs on the line sitting him, not ours.  

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5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So much anger and drama for a kid with 24 catches and not even 400 career receiving yards and no TD's as yet......who spent most of last year hurt, and most of camp this year sick or on the sidelines.

The Mims thing might, possibly, maybe, be a little bit overblown.  Especially the conspiracy theory nature of some of the anger over him, i.e. the many "we're not getting the whole picture, something else must be going on!" stuff.  

He'll play when the Coaches think he is ready and that he is better than the other options. 

It's their jobs on the line sitting him, not ours.  

Here’s the problem, cole and smith combined for 1 catch yesterday.  They were both non factors.  The passing offense is moore and berrios.  They’ve scored 3 points in the first halves of 2 games.  The coaching staff has proclaimed this season a youth movement.  Yet mims sits.  And the rookie qb struggles.  Give mims the damn ball.

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1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

Here’s the problem, cole and smith combined for 1 catch yesterday.  They were both non factors.  The passing offense is moore and berrios.  They’ve scored 3 points in the first halves of 2 games.  The coaching staff has proclaimed this season a youth movement.  Yet mims sits.  And the rookie qb struggles.  Give mims the damn ball.

Left out Davis, our #1 WR, and a guy who plays the same X position as Mims.

You're not wrong, our O has been weak as hell.  The staff should look at that and try and fix it.

I'm just not convinced Mims is the solution either.  I'd far less impressed with his short resume at the NFL level than his fans are.

And I'm not benching Davis to play Mims if Mims can only play the X.  

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2 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

I'm actually starting to agree with this.  2 + 2 is not adding up to 4 here.  I'm over this "he can't learn the route tree" silliness.  There's something deeper going on which isn't leaking out of the building.  I think JD is going to try and move him.  JMO...

I'm thinking there's an attitude / effort issue that is grating with the coaches ... they don't want to reward him with playing time and set the expectation that talent + attitude issue = success.

Changing the culture comes from sticking to your principles for the medium / long term gain, even if it causes short term pain. I'd almost say it's a page out of the New England book - they would often move on from players who thought they were bigger than the team, and usually those guys had less success elsewhere.

 

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If a guy isn’t adhering to the offense or following/understanding the game plan the smart thing is to bench him and if that doesn’t work not activate him. When Ocho Cinco went to the Patriots and didn’t get the offense he got few targets and was cut. And this guy was a superior NFL Wr. 

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4 hours ago, jgb said:

He is beyond talented. He's elite even compared to the elite world of NFL players. Which makes his failure to dress even more damning. He was born on third base in the athleticism department. It has to be an issue upstairs.

 

4 hours ago, rtnelson said:

I would just argue that wouldn't necessarily be a "terrible judge of talent".

Everyone here seems to be able to make iron clad judgements how he is the second coming of megatron or whatever, I think we can all see the physical gifts.

Sometimes when these kids get those big paychecks they lose motivation to take their game to the next level.  This is a story we've seen time and time again.  It's not like he's been cut, and this is the NFL where people are going to get injured.

He is going to get on the field at some point this season and we'll see.  Even if he starts making plays it still isn't indicative of where he stands right at this moment.  But that won't matter, because from our armchairs, we know best.

 

4 hours ago, rtnelson said:

Or he's talented but can't learn the playbook or lacks motivation to improve.  It happens all the time.

 

4 hours ago, kmnj said:

One of the following is true

either he really sucks and Joe is a terrible judge of talent

or

the coaching staff is clueless because they are not playing a “skilled “high draft pick year two at a position of need

 

It's remarkable how many people on JN don't understand the dynamic of a player and a coach..... or an employee and a leader even.... Ineffective coaching/style has just as much a part in this conversation as the player's lack of engagement. It's stunning really how quickly many of you have bought into "kid just doesn't get it - too dumb or wont' study..."   like he woke up in 2021 and forgot how to play football. 

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1 minute ago, Paradis said:

 

 

 

 

It's remarkable how many people on JN don't understand the dynamic of a player and a coach..... or an employee and a leader even.... Ineffective coaching/style has just as much a part in this conversation as the player's lack of engagement. It's stunning really how quickly many of you have bought into "kid just doesn't get it - too dumb or wont' study..."   like he woke up in 2021 and forgot how to play football. 

You shouldn't have quoted me as your harangue is not responsive to the point I was making.

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5 hours ago, kmnj said:

One of the following is true

either he really sucks and Joe is a terrible judge of talent

or

the coaching staff is clueless because they are not playing a “skilled “high draft pick year two at a position of need

 

 

I mean... He fell for a reason and Joe Douglas ultimately passed on him before taking him for a reason. Lol

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5 hours ago, kmnj said:

One of the following is true

either he really sucks and Joe is a terrible judge of talent

or

the coaching staff is clueless because they are not playing a “skilled “high draft pick year two at a position of need

 

 

or..........

 

He had serious doubts about him that most of us refused to see which is why he traded down in the 2nd round instead of picking him when once he was still there lower in the round he said fug it and took a chance. if JD was so high on him he'd have grabbed him at the first opportunity. 

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Why are we not complaining that Jabari Zuniga is not getting playing time over Bryce Huff?  Zuniga had good ras scores did he not?

Zuniga tested out as a freak.  He's just a constant injury.  Mims isnt injured, he's a healthy scratch.  I think that why everyone is up in arms.

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Just now, JiFapono said:

Zuniga tested out as a freak.  He's just a constant injury.  Mims isnt injured, he's a healthy scratch.  I think that why everyone is up in arms.

Plus when mims has played he’s done ok or well.  And he has big play potential which is something this offense desperately needs.  And many here in the die hard fan base can’t help but wonder if the coaching staff is doing the proverbial cutting its nose to spite its face, i.e., making an example of mims while hurting the offense.  

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Mims is talented, and I think that 99.9% of us agree with that.

Mims is a physical presence and can go up and get 50/50 balls. Not sure if we all agree on that, but I'm sure most of us do.

Now for assumptions:

What we don't know is how Mims practices, or if he has a poor attitude, or an unwillingness to learn different aspects of the position. IF these are the issues, I support the team's decision to sit him. You cannot build a culture of all gas, no brake, if you are not living it on the practice field. Nobody is bigger than the team, unless your name is Aaron Rogers. Mims is no Aaron Rogers. When you allow a second year player to dictate how he practices or what he learns, you might as well let him bend you over, and not even offer you a reach around. 

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20 minutes ago, jetspenguin said:

or..........

 

He had serious doubts about him that most of us refused to see which is why he traded down in the 2nd round instead of picking him when once he was still there lower in the round he said fug it and took a chance. if JD was so high on him he'd have grabbed him at the first opportunity. 

Exactly. You don't get cute when you like a player. Mims wasn't the original pick for a reason. 

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When a new regime comes in, in any walk of business, 2 things always happen:

1- they are going to bring their guys in

2- if u r a holdover, u better go along w/ their policies/culture

The playbook issues the coaches are selling us is 5% of the problem.  The real problem is Mims is not going along w/ the culture that Saleh is trying to install.

And when this happens in business, someone is going to be made an example of that not buying in is not going to be tolerated.

Unfortunately, Mims is the guy they are going to use to make an example.  And it sucks but thats how business works.

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1 hour ago, jamesr said:

I'm thinking there's an attitude / effort issue that is grating with the coaches ... they don't want to reward him with playing time and set the expectation that talent + attitude issue = success.

Changing the culture comes from sticking to your principles for the medium / long term gain, even if it causes short term pain. I'd almost say it's a page out of the New England book - they would often move on from players who thought they were bigger than the team, and usually those guys had less success elsewhere.

 

I would agree with you except JD went out of his way to draft character guys last year.  Can't see how he would have drafted Mims if he was a head case...

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1 hour ago, jamesr said:

I'm thinking there's an attitude / effort issue that is grating with the coaches ... they don't want to reward him with playing time and set the expectation that talent + attitude issue = success.

Changing the culture comes from sticking to your principles for the medium / long term gain, even if it causes short term pain. I'd almost say it's a page out of the New England book - they would often move on from players who thought they were bigger than the team, and usually those guys had less success elsewhere.

 

Merely conjecture.

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1 minute ago, Joe W. Namath said:

When a new regime comes in, in any walk of business, 2 things always happen:

1- they are going to bring their guys in

2- if u r a holdover, u better go along w/ their policies/culture

The playbook issues the coaches are selling us is 5% of the problem.  The real problem is Mims is not going along w/ the culture that Saleh is trying to install.

And when this happens in business, someone is going to be made an example of that not buying in is not going to be tolerated.

Unfortunately, Mims is the guy they are going to use to make an example.  And it sucks but thats how business works.

But it’s hard to believe that mims is simply be an a hole.  So when you say culture, what are you really saying?  Because i think mims isn’t keen on the idea of learning all the wr positions and operating in the slot.  I think he really wants to be the big outside wr to win contested passes.  And i think the coaching staff isn’t thrilled that this big talented wr isn’t thrilled with how he’s being coached.  

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I would agree with you except JD went out of his way to draft character guys last year.  Can't see how he would have drafted Mims if he was a head case...
Could be a clash with the specific coaches we have now, and / or the emphasis on culture.

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But it’s hard to believe that mims is simply be an a hole.  So when you say culture, what are you really saying?  Because i think mims isn’t keen on the idea of learning all the wr positions and operating in the slot.  I think he really wants to be the big outside wr to win contested passes.  And i think the coaching staff isn’t thrilled that this big talented wr isn’t thrilled with how he’s being coached.  
That's pretty much what I mean - he's maybe got a view of what he does / doesn't want to do, and the coaches aren't happy with that, rewarding guys that do whatever they're asked to do.

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10 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

When a new regime comes in, in any walk of business, 2 things always happen:

1- they are going to bring their guys in

2- if u r a holdover, u better go along w/ their policies/culture

The playbook issues the coaches are selling us is 5% of the problem.  The real problem is Mims is not going along w/ the culture that Saleh is trying to install.

And when this happens in business, someone is going to be made an example of that not buying in is not going to be tolerated.

Unfortunately, Mims is the guy they are going to use to make an example.  And it sucks but thats how business works.

the new regime is the joe douglas regime he is the gm and the guy that drafted mims.!

The culture starts with ownership then goes to the gm then to the coach who was hired by the gm.    I keep hearing about the culture saleh is trying to install ? what exactly is the culture playing terrible football and playing jaqs ?     

As I originally stated, Mims is either a bad player(good players play ) and Joe struck out on his "genius" pick or the coaching staff is clueless starting total jaqs over him

 

 

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1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

The real problem is Mims is not going along w/ the culture that Saleh is trying to install.

This is it right here. Guys with more talent than Mims have been traded and cut from teams. There is a reason why guys like Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, and Chad Ochocinco had multiple homes. Their juice wasn't worth the squeeze, and they were head and shoulders above Mims in terms of talent. 

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8 hours ago, rtnelson said:

Or he's talented but can't learn the playbook or lacks motivation to improve.  It happens all the time.

Indeed.  We only get to sit on the sidelines during the off season.  The GM's and insiders get up close and personal with the players.  Most fans, me included were glad that Mims fell to the Jets.  It was seen by the people watching from home as a great value pick.  But... There were reasons the other GM's let him fall.  And, now we see why. 

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I know everyone is in hyperbolic nightmare mode but I don't think the team I'd as far away as everyone thinks.... remember  this is coming from me ...someone who thoroughly  enjoys pessimism.

Last week everyone but the O Line looked good. 

This week everyone but the QB looked good.

O Line improved from week one to week two.

Bellicheck eats rookie QBs for a pre-breakfast snack.

Maybe week three we see some things come together. Maybe Denvers pass rush eats us alive... we'll see.

This season was destined to be messy.

Whatever... go back to calling for heads it's what our fan base does best.

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6 hours ago, JiFapono said:

I just want to understand why this has been an issue this season but we heard nothing about any of these behaviors/characteristics about Mims last season.  Just weird.  

we didn't have coaches last year. 

 

this whole Mims thing is baffling as F*√ck ... Just figure out plays that he can run LaFleur, and let him grow throughout the season, while build rapport and confidence with Wilson. 

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Mimsy isn't a culture fit and they are making an example out of him.  His route running and playbook knowledge have nothing to do with why he isn't playing.

Maybe he is not jogging to the next drill after the whistle blows, maybe hes not putting extra time in the weight room etc.  But this coaching staff is huge with following the program.  And Mims is just like, "put me on the field and Ill catch the ball.  Why the hell do I have to jog to the next drill in practice?"

 

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