The Mims reality

[redlichtie]

It’s worth remembering that a lot of Baylor WR’s have struggled in the NFL and the knock on them coming out has often been that the system they ran there was very basic and didn’t demand a great deal out of the wideouts (or QB’s for that matter). I remember this being mentioned in the pre-draft process in 2020….Mims was talented as hell and had fantastic production but some of the scouts did seem to caveat that with the lack of complex route-tree experience.
As others have pointed out, he dropped in the draft for a reason and even JD passed on him once before presumably thinking his potential was worth a punt at that point
It could just be he’s been struggling with this system and the coaches are rightly demanding more from him. It’s  Frustrating as hell to see guys like Smith and even Berrios trotted out ahead of him but let’s see if it lights a fire in the player and he responds positively in the coming weeks. The signs aren’t great though, if we’re honest he did next to nothing last year when he had almost no competition in the WR room…no TD’s…no impact plays…a couple of nice catches but that’s it

[NYJ1]

11 hours ago, kmnj said:

One of the following is true

either he really sucks and Joe is a terrible judge of talent

or

the coaching staff is clueless because they are not playing a “skilled “high draft pick year two at a position of need

 

 

This post has no basis in fact. Just a foolish, outlandish claim because you want to create drama. 

Denzel Mims is an extremely talented WR. The coaching staff probably does know what they're doing with Mims although there's no doubt this looks very peculiar. Why can't they just use Mims in a limited capacity? Just the same, ultimately this will end with Mims getting traded if this keeps up. I personally do not want to lose Mims......

[Ecuadorian Jet]

11 hours ago, kmnj said:

One of the following is true

either he really sucks and Joe is a terrible judge of talent

or

the coaching staff is clueless because they are not playing a “skilled “high draft pick year two at a position of need

 

 

I think there is a 3rd option. Ego. LaFleur is really young and he doesnt strike me like a guy that know exactly how to manage people. Add to the mix a guy who probably looks at this situation as unfair, probably doesnt follow all the rules and demeanor that a young coach would like. As a result, La Fleur is going to bury him in the inactive list until he wins his ego battle. 

Its not about talent, because we saw last year that Mims does have some talent. 

[kmnj]

59 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

This post has no basis in fact. Just a foolish, outlandish claim because you want to create drama. 

Denzel Mims is an extremely talented WR. The coaching staff probably does know what they're doing with Mims although there's no doubt this looks very peculiar. Why can't they just use Mims in a limited capacity? Just the same, ultimately this will end with Mims getting traded if this keeps up. I personally do not want to lose Mims......

I said either he sucks or it is bad coaching - you said my post is foolish then u blame the coaches lol good stuff

[kmnj]

38 minutes ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

I think there is a 3rd option. Ego. LaFleur is really young and he doesnt strike me like a guy that know exactly how to manage people. Add to the mix a guy who probably looks at this situation as unfair, probably doesnt follow all the rules and demeanor that a young coach would like. As a result, La Fleur is going to bury him in the inactive list until he wins his ego battle. 

Its not about talent, because we saw last year that Mims does have some talent. 

La fleur is not the head coach and does not decide who plays but I will assume u think it is the coaching 

[Larz]

The explanation given seems to indicate that he just got beat out in camp by Cole

[Paradis]

2 hours ago, redlichtie said:

It’s worth remembering that a lot of Baylor WR’s have struggled in the NFL and the knock on them coming out has often been that the system they ran there was very basic and didn’t demand a great deal out of the wideouts (or QB’s for that matter). I remember this being mentioned in the pre-draft process in 2020…
As others have pointed out, he dropped in the draft for a reason and even JD passed on him once before presumably thinking his potential was worth a punt at that pointThe signs aren’t great though, if we’re honest he did next to nothing last year when he had almost no competition in the WR room…no TD’s…no impact plays…a couple of nice catches but that’s it

couple things to debunk--

• Those baylor concerns were from the Art Briles era. Mims was Matt Rhule. There was no talk of that pre-draft, no more than 75% of the WRs who don't run full route trees. Wasn't an air raid offense either i don't think
• No one ever projected him (routinely) as a round 1 WR... Slipped isn't fair assessment... i think some predraft hype had him going before some guys like Van Jefferson, but otherwise the other WRs selected around there - Pittman, Claypool, Higgins, were often ahead or lumped into his tier.... slipped is like Hakeem Butler in the 4th. Eq St Brown in the 5th. 

 

• i don't know where this is coming from in bold. You're usually as even keeled as they come.... he didn't do much? What?? It was a shortened covid offseason, with next to no training camp, and had hamstring issues -- and when he finally started getting some time on the back end of the season, he was the best WR not named Crowder. What are you expecting?... No TC and no reps b/c of injury... 

And now it's ALL his fault. NOTHING on the 18 yr old LaFleur, we're just assuming he's a seasoned inspirer of men and it's ALL Mim's attitude.

I don't understand where some of you are coming from

[Shelbyblue]

Obviously he’s limited in his playbook, that system is complicated with lots of checks and motions. Say you put him him and defense shows a different coverage, Zach changes the play and now he becomes x instead of a and obviously he doesn’t know where to line up. Time outs and penalties will pile up if he doesn’t know where he belongs. This is what coach is saying. You just can’t limit your offense because one receiver doesn’t know his job.

[kmnj]

51 minutes ago, Shelbyblue said:

Obviously he’s limited in his playbook, that system is complicated with lots of checks and motions. Say you put him him and defense shows a different coverage, Zach changes the play and now he becomes x instead of a and obviously he doesn’t know where to line up. Time outs and penalties will pile up if he doesn’t know where he belongs. This is what coach is saying. You just can’t limit your offense because one receiver doesn’t know his job.

I love the complicated system nonsense- dude didn’t just take up football 

[CanadaSteve]

13 hours ago, kmnj said:

One of the following is true

either he really sucks and Joe is a terrible judge of talent

or

the coaching staff is clueless because they are not playing a “skilled “high draft pick year two at a position of need

 

 

Or there could be a much broader range of options than either JD sucking or the coaching staff sucking.  

[oatmeal]

11 hours ago, IndianaJet said:

The idea that Denzel Mims is the hill so many people on this board are choosing to die on is laughable.

If I cared enough, I could probably go back about 3 months on this board and find 90% of the Mimzy's here proclaiming he was a bust and a waste of a 2nd round pick.

Now all of a sudden he's the Prince That was Promised and the answer to all the Jets problems?

I hate the internet.

 

Omg this made me laugh so hard 

 

?????

[JetBlue]

6 hours ago, THE BARON said:

Indeed.  We only get to sit on the sidelines during the off season.  The GM's and insiders get up close and personal with the players.  Most fans, me included were glad that Mims fell to the Jets.  It was seen by the people watching from home as a great value pick.  But... There were reasons the other GM's let him fall.  And, now we see why. 

OMG the dude fell to the SECOND ROUND, not the SIXTH.  How many time players have slipped a round or two?  Does any one with a brain really think Mims would have made past the first few picks of the 3rd round if he lasted that long???   I guarantee if he went to any other team he would be playing major minutes and producing but only the ******* jets can take talented player like this and use him to set their example regarding "culture" which is really total bullsh*t.  You win with TALENT not CULTURE.   This team has not SNIFFED the playoffs in a decade it seems and we are wasting a talented second round pick who plays a position of need because he doesn't kiss Saleh or Lafleur ring?  God I truly hate being a Jet fans some times.  It it times like this I really wish I could quit this team... 

[JetBlue]

1 hour ago, Shelbyblue said:

Obviously he’s limited in his playbook, that system is complicated with lots of checks and motions. Say you put him him and defense shows a different coverage, Zach changes the play and now he becomes x instead of a and obviously he doesn’t know where to line up. Time outs and penalties will pile up if he doesn’t know where he belongs. This is what coach is saying. You just can’t limit your offense because one receiver doesn’t know his job.

Meanwhile timeouts and penalties are still piling up, the only difference is we have receivers who can't get open or make a play when they do.   I don't give a rats ass about all these so called reasons.  This is a young team in DEVELOPMENTAL MODE.  Pair down the playbook and get your best players on the field.  How is this so difficult for some to grasp?  You can always add more as they build confidence and chemistry with each other.   You say they can't limit the offense for one receiver; dude have you seen what this offense has looked like the past two weeks??? 

[Snell41]

Mims is the sacrificial lamb. The coaching staff is taking a good player and bending him to their will to establish strength. If Denzel falls in line then the team is improved and he gets his job back. If he does not then he gets made an example of for the rest of the team.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[doitny]

6 hours ago, kmnj said:

La fleur is not the head coach and does not decide who plays but I will assume u think it is the coaching 

but Saleh cant keep track of 53 players thats why they have OCs and position coaches. im sure La fleur is telling him Mims aint ready yet . 

[doitny]

4 hours ago, JetBlue said:

Meanwhile timeouts and penalties are still piling up, the only difference is we have receivers who can't get open or make a play when they do.   I don't give a rats ass about all these so called reasons.  This is a young team in DEVELOPMENTAL MODE.  Pair down the playbook and get your best players on the field.  How is this so difficult for some to grasp?  You can always add more as they build confidence and chemistry with each other.   You say they can't limit the offense for one receiver; dude have you seen what this offense has looked like the past two weeks??? 

how do we know our WRs cant get open? i watched the games, read a lot of articles . i didn't see it anywhere that its the WRs fault.  

if Zach played like he did in week one in week two we probably win yesterday. 

lets take it easy before we declare Mims our savoir. 

[jgb]

8 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

This post has no basis in fact. Just a foolish, outlandish claim because you want to create drama. 

Denzel Mims is an extremely talented WR. The coaching staff probably does know what they're doing with Mims although there's no doubt this looks very peculiar. Why can't they just use Mims in a limited capacity? Just the same, ultimately this will end with Mims getting traded if this keeps up. I personally do not want to lose Mims......

This is the big question for me. We really can’t find a way to get him on the field for a couple potential deep strikes a game? 

[redlichtie]

8 hours ago, Paradis said:

couple things to debunk--

• Those baylor concerns were from the Art Briles era. Mims was Matt Rhule. There was no talk of that pre-draft, no more than 75% of the WRs who don't run full route trees. Wasn't an air raid offense either i don't think
• No one ever projected him (routinely) as a round 1 WR... Slipped isn't fair assessment... i think some predraft hype had him going before some guys like Van Jefferson, but otherwise the other WRs selected around there - Pittman, Claypool, Higgins, were often ahead or lumped into his tier.... slipped is like Hakeem Butler in the 4th. Eq St Brown in the 5th. 

 

• i don't know where this is coming from in bold. You're usually as even keeled as they come.... he didn't do much? What?? It was a shortened covid offseason, with next to no training camp, and had hamstring issues -- and when he finally started getting some time on the back end of the season, he was the best WR not named Crowder. What are you expecting?... No TC and no reps b/c of injury... 

And now it's ALL his fault. NOTHING on the 18 yr old LaFleur, we're just assuming he's a seasoned inspirer of men and it's ALL Mim's attitude.

I don't understand where some of you are coming from

Fair enough response, I’m not trying to justify the mystifying inability of the coaching staff to get the best out of a wildly talented player, merely provide some possible clues as to why, rightly or wrongly…

 I’m still struggling to think of a Baylor WR that has come out and been anything in the league….maybe Josh Gordon? (and he would’ve been Art Briles vintage) either way it’s not been a happy hunting ground and I can certainly go back and find a few college scouting reports where the concern on Mims was lack of refinement and how he’d adapt to a more complex offense in the NFL…..I’m pretty sure Bob McGinn and his “scouts take” particularly picked that up but going back and finding McGinn’s archive isn’t easy. 

you’ll note I made no reference to LaFleur or the coaching staff other than a passing mention of how frustrating it is that we seem to value the likes of Smith & Berrios over him. No offense to either of them but every snap they take on offense is a wasted play. Cole too offered next to nothing on Sunday. That’s another conversation though, my post was merely adding another potential reason behind the mystery that is the treatment of Mims. 

As for the bolded, I totally accept the lack of TC, the covid curtailed year and the ongoing hammy were justifiable reasons for a slow start but some people round here(I didn’t think you were one of them) were talking Mims up like he was the 2nd coming of Randy Moss off the back of a few decent catches, there was more than a hint of Joe Douglas justification in over hyping the performances of both Becton & Mims last year when in reality if we go back and look at what Mims actually did it was encouraging but no more…sorry but being the best Jet WR not named Crowder is not exactly a rave review for me. Having said all that he did make enough plays, in an absolute sh!t-show of an offense and with little to no support, to justify an increase in playing time in 2021…. not a decrease.

In his defence he had nothing around him other than Crowder, so any production was laudable and achieved under duress as he would’ve been the focus for opposing DC’s. Theoretically this year, with Davis, Crowder, Cole & Moore there’s more than enough talent around him to take attention away and so he should be flourishing….so what’s up?

if there’s a positive to take it’s that WR often take a while to develop so I’m not giving up on him yet and like you I find it baffling that his skills and talent aren’t worth just getting on the field and running a few 9 routes just to keep the coverage honest. We learn nothing about him and his potential to be a starting WR in this league if he’s on the sidelines.

This coaching staff promised that it would maximise the talents of the players, that it would fit the system round the talent not try to force square pegs into round holes so it’s pretty worrying to see that the early signs are, like so many coaching staffs before, that they are too clever for their own good and out-thinking themselves …if Mims is being made an example of then that only works if he knuckles down, earns playing time and flourishes. More worrying is they lack the flexibility to incorporate a player who may not be as versatile as others less talented but has a unique skill-set that very few have, I’m tired of trotting out nice-guy JAGS who try hard and know how to play X, Y and Z but are borderline practice squad talent. 

Fair enough if these guys want to show that they can wield the stick as much as the carrot, that they can create an accountability that demands more from everyone and plays no favours but I am as frustrated as you are that we aren’t even seeing the guy suit up at all, we learn nothing from that….if he plays the next couple of weeks, gets more than a token couple of snaps and makes some plays then maybe there’s an argument the approach worked, but if it turns out our CS just doesn’t see a role for him, just doesn’t fancy him…then that’s a worry

just my opinion

[THE BARON]

11 hours ago, JetBlue said:

OMG the dude fell to the SECOND ROUND, not the SIXTH.  How many time players have slipped a round or two?  Does any one with a brain really think Mims would have made past the first few picks of the 3rd round if he lasted that long???   I guarantee if he went to any other team he would be playing major minutes and producing but only the ******* jets can take talented player like this and use him to set their example regarding "culture" which is really total bullsh*t.  You win with TALENT not CULTURE.   This team has not SNIFFED the playoffs in a decade it seems and we are wasting a talented second round pick who plays a position of need because he doesn't kiss Saleh or Lafleur ring?  God I truly hate being a Jet fans some times.  It it times like this I really wish I could quit this team... 

The only thing here I dig is your overall disgust with the Jets as an organization/product.  Perhaps another team would get more out of Mims, but from where the fans are seated, it sounds like there are issues with his work ethic.  

[jgb]

1 minute ago, THE BARON said:

The only thing here I dig is your overall disgust with the Jets as an organization/product.  Perhaps another team would get more out of Mims, but from where the fans are seated, it sounds like there are issues with his work ethic.  

Probably a mix of work ethic, capability to absorb information/flexible mindset, and unrealistic expectations/requirements by the coaches. Like most complex problems in life, there is likely a complex -- or at least varied -- cause.

[THE BARON]

18 minutes ago, jgb said:

Probably a mix of work ethic, capability to absorb information/flexible mindset, and unrealistic expectations/requirements by the coaches. Like most complex problems in life, there is likely a complex -- or at least varied -- cause.

Indeed.  Though, I don't think the CS would be keeping him out of games just because he does not polish their brass sufficiently. 

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Indeed.  Though, I don't think the CS would be keeping him out of games just because he does not polish their brass sufficiently. 

That would be depressing if they did and point to a much worse, longer term issue. It would be Gase-ian.

It is very hard to believe that Mims doesn't make the 46-man cut on game days for a couple deep routes and jump balls.

[dcJet]

I haven't seen the talent you guys are talking about.  I don't watch college ball so I have only seen him in pro games.  Maybe that's it.

IMO, when I saw him last year, I described him as stiff.  He doesn't play as fast as his 40 time and he's got no wiggle.  I don't see explosion in and out of breaks and as big as he is, he runs weak with the ball.  We joke he misses leg day but maybe that's it.  

He reminds me of Mohammed Sanu.

He does have straight line speed, good hands and can high point.  That makes him a one trick pony. 

[Jet Nut]

On 9/20/2021 at 7:17 AM, kmnj said:

One of the following is true

either he really sucks and Joe is a terrible judge of talent

or

the coaching staff is clueless because they are not playing a “skilled “high draft pick year two at a position of need

 

 

Or he cant learn his position and/or the playbook.

No one anywhere thought he was a bad pick.  Coaching staffs dont keep talented players who would help them win and keep their jobs for no reason.

[dcJet]

Coaches know more than us.  If they have a weapon, they will design some plays for the guy and defenses coaches will notice.

Claypool and Deebo, as big as they are, get jet sweeps and screens.  This week we saw a Rondale Moore package.  I've never seen a Mims package.  

 

[Scotty Wooty Doo Doo]

53 players on this team and yet there are 12 posts about 1 guy who cant get on the field , learn the playboofk, but hes the next coming of Jerry Rice cause he can go up for jump balls . 52 other players know where to line up .  You think other coaches would be playing him if he doesnt know the playbook , youre crazy .  BB?

[Maynard13]

On 9/20/2021 at 9:20 AM, hawk said:

I agree, however. The first question of any interview should be either "Does the kid work hard?" or "Does the kid have a brain?".  The second question should be the one that wasnt asked first.  Follow it up with "Does the kid love playing the game?"

You are only interviewing one of their coaches because you already saw enough in tape.

It is unfortunate that players are drafter that either think their sh*t don't stink or their talent is enough, are just in for the money, or are just plain dumb.

That should be easy to weed out, but obviously it not.

None of this was an issue at Baylor. He was an absolute stud there and was projected to be a top 3 WR off the board. It’s very very strange how he dropped and no one has quantifiable answers. 

[Origen]

And Davis is a Top-5 pick bust who couldn't get a second contract from the team that drafted him, but every player blossoms at the same rate and Mims should be an all-pro by now no matter what the coaches see or ask of him?

[#27TheDominator]

I agree that Mims didn't really fall in the draft.  I think as the draft drew near, the media started propping him up as a potential first rounder.  I think he was mostly seen as a 2nd the whole time, maybe he'd sneak into the first.  That doesn't make #59 a Brady Quinn drop. 

I do remember reading that teams were supposedly all over the map with him.  Some supposedly had a huge span of grades on him.  Supposedly plenty had him as a day 3 prospect, while others may have had him as high as a 1st.  Probably didn't read that on a very reliable site, but I remember it supposedly quoted team sources.  Seems like some people liked him and others did not.

@Paradis is also correct that the simple offense stuff was mostly Briles and Mims played for Rhule who is now in the NFL.  The scouting reports on Mims are littered with comments about lazy routes and a lack of playing up to his timed speed though.

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, Scotty Wooty Doo Doo said:

53 players on this team and yet there are 12 posts about 1 guy who cant get on the field , learn the playboofk, but hes the next coming of Jerry Rice cause he can go up for jump balls . 52 other players know where to line up .  You think other coaches would be playing him if he doesnt know the playbook , youre crazy .  BB?

Wait here.  I am rushing off to start a Del'Shawn Phillips thread.

[kmnj]

cant believe some in this thread called the mims pick a "punt" wtf lol he was a second round pick and guys talking about him like he was the last pick  of the draft

Right now he is a MONSTER bust for Joe-you cant have a second round pick in year two that cant get on the field especially at a position of need with guys hurt 

If he cant learn the playbook that is a failure on Joe for drafting him, the coaches for not being able to teach him and Mims for not spending every waking hour learning the plays.

My personal opinion is the Jets trade Mims sooner rather than later

 

[kmnj]

It should be noted I think the jets OC is terrible-having guys play out of position -Moore is being set up to fail playing to his weakness not his strengths 

 

 

[Maynard13]

On 9/20/2021 at 9:20 AM, sciond said:

We know physical talent is not the issue...

 It has to be attitude, aptitude, or coaching.

Nobody can tell me he is not better than Smith

Kid has skillz. Its beyond moronic to not have him in the lineup. He's far more dangerous a weapon than Berrios or Smith. Tape dont lie. 

 

[Maynard13]

1 hour ago, dcJet said:

Coaches know more than us.  If they have a weapon, they will design some plays for the guy and defenses coaches will notice.

Claypool and Deebo, as big as they are, get jet sweeps and screens.  This week we saw a Rondale Moore package.  I've never seen a Mims package.  

 

LOL Gase and Bowles agree. 

[FidelioJet]

The reality is.

Robert Saleh believes, right now, Jeff Smith is more valuable to the New York Jets than Denzel Mims.

That's it.