The “rebuild” isn’t working

[playtowinthegame]

1 minute ago, FactsOnly said:

The rebuild literally just started

Big Joe has had 1 draft prior to this year and had to get rid of the stink left by Mac (Darnold, Adams, Williams) not to mention Adam Gase

Darnold, Adams, and Williams are all going to earn a trip to the Pro Bowl and be teammates again on the NFC team. 

[Larz]

[carlito1171]

19 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

but there wasn’t even a washed up vet on the bench that you could bring in to run the offense.   

This will turn out to be the biggest blunder of the offseason. I felt it was odd that we didn't even add a washed up Vet that could still play for times like these. Turns out I was right. We should have signed a vet that could start the 1st 8 or so games till Wilson was truly ready. 

 

Thanks to JD now we have a Geno 2.0 situation except Wilson prob has enough talent to find his feet at some point. 

[sec101row23]

4 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

For anyone who doesn’t feel like clicking through (and you shouldn’t), it’s just Peter King saying this;

I think Jets GM Joe Douglas let down Jets franchise quarterback Zach Wilson on Sunday. I’ve harped on this through the offseason, the need in New York for a veteran backup to be a guide for Wilson. And Sunday, the need showed up. 26-year-old backup Mike White the only man in reserve. Four minutes into the second half of a loss to New England, Wilson dropped back and let a bomb fly deep down the middle of the field. No Jet was close when the ball fell to earth. But a Patriot was close—safety Devin McCourty, who intercepted it. Four interceptions in 35 minutes for the green Wilson. After the pick by McCourty, Wilson should have been yanked, given the rest of the day off while a hold-the-fort vet finished. There is no hold-the-fort vet, so Wilson stayed in and took his lumps. It’s just not sensible to treat the long-term answer at quarterback like this.

What a load of horsesh*t. You can say he hung the rest of the team out to dry, because Andy Dalton or Gardner Minshew probably wins yesterday’s game, but hanging Wilson out to dry? Give me a ******* break. Wilson’s the starter, for better or worse. When he sucks out loud, no one is benching him to protect his feelings. The idea that we need to save these guys from themselves so they don’t get sad is ******* pathological.

The problem is that the other 52 guys on the roster suffer as well.  They need development and are playing for their contracts as well.  Zach needed to be pulled yesterday, it was beyond obvious.   

[kdels62]

28 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

He had absolute control of the roster. its years 3 folks

After FA and the draft… what?

[Smashmouth]

5 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

For anyone who doesn’t feel like clicking through (and you shouldn’t), it’s just Peter King saying this;

I think Jets GM Joe Douglas let down Jets franchise quarterback Zach Wilson on Sunday. I’ve harped on this through the offseason, the need in New York for a veteran backup to be a guide for Wilson. And Sunday, the need showed up. 26-year-old backup Mike White the only man in reserve. Four minutes into the second half of a loss to New England, Wilson dropped back and let a bomb fly deep down the middle of the field. No Jet was close when the ball fell to earth. But a Patriot was close—safety Devin McCourty, who intercepted it. Four interceptions in 35 minutes for the green Wilson. After the pick by McCourty, Wilson should have been yanked, given the rest of the day off while a hold-the-fort vet finished. There is no hold-the-fort vet, so Wilson stayed in and took his lumps. It’s just not sensible to treat the long-term answer at quarterback like this.

What a load of horsesh*t. You can say he hung the rest of the team out to dry, because Andy Dalton or Gardner Minshew probably wins yesterday’s game, but hanging Wilson out to dry? Give me a ******* break. Wilson’s the starter, for better or worse. When he sucks out loud, no one is benching him to protect his feelings. The idea that we need to save these guys from themselves so they don’t get sad is ******* pathological.

People forget Troy Aikman and the Dallas Cowboys in the early 90's they were horrible and Troy got his brains beat in on a game in game out basis. What happened the next few years ? And Troy was a career game manager

[jgb]

12 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

I dont think we move on from Zach at all. We had Darnold start 3 years. (He is actually playin well now, go figure) It makes me worry alot. This is the next 3-4 seasons on the line. He needs a better line and he needs to mature in his decisions. The boos are healthy for him. He needs a little humbling

The record this year is irrelevant. I hate to say that. I'm also sick of the endless rebuilding cycles and every season only being about "figuring out if we have a FQB" but here we are again.

My fear is that Wilson is right around the Mendoza line of rookie QBs. Not good enough to give us reasonable confidence that he's "the man" but not poor enough to accept we need to bring in legitimate competition/plan B (either through draft or FA) next season.

Continued purgatory is what I fear most.

[Pac]

39 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

If Zach Wilson didnt put up one of the worst performances I've ever seen from a QB, that was a very winnable game.  Just a modicum of competence from the QB position and the Jets win.  

This was a conscious decision by the coaching staff and GM to throw him to the wolves in spite of what's best for this team and quite frankly, for Zach.  And that's the shame of it, when you're rebuilding and you dont really know what you have and you're breaking in a bunch of unknows and hoping for next season, having a QB like Wilson basically negates any roster assessment's you can make.

How did we know that playing him from the start with no veteran qb on the roster was a horrible idea and they didn't?  Its mind boggling.

I'm not even saying Zap can never be good..  It just made zero sense to anoint him the starter in some sham qb competition while constantly reminding us how great he is.

[FactsOnly]

18 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Darnold, Adams, and Williams are all going to earn a trip to the Pro Bowl and be teammates again on the NFC team. 

LMFAO

[kevinc855]

15 minutes ago, jgb said:

The record this year is irrelevant. I hate to say that. I'm also sick of the endless rebuilding cycles and every season only being about "figuring out if we have a FQB" but here we are again.

My fear is that Wilson is right around the Mendoza line of rookie QBs. Not good enough to give us reasonable confidence that he's "the man" but not poor enough to accept we need to bring in legitimate competition/plan B (either through draft or FA) next season.

Continued purgatory is what I fear most.

Exactly. Out of all the decisions that made me scratch my head, not having a Veteran in the QB room always confused me the most. 

[joewilly12]

If I ever chose to rebuild the engine in any car I owned can i expect to have it rebuilt every year I decide to keep it. 

[Ex-Rex]

• Popular Post

•  

Posted 2 hours ago

  2 hours ago, kmnj said:

Joe d supporters how many players from his first draft were on the field and playing yesterday?

one player yep one player

that is not how the rebuild works especially after getting rid of talent that we had

 

What about from his second draft? 

MC1, MC2, Moore, Hamsah, AVT, Wilson  are all starters. 

I have concerns about the team but yesterday was probably the worst Wilson will play in his whole career and he alone cost us the game. The OL played well, the defense was as good your gonna get considering how inept Wilson was. JFM, Huff, Hall are all good players at key positions on defense. 

The OL had several bad penalties at crucial times so I wouldn't say they played well. Wilson was under so much pressure he actually looked scared. He played so badly I would have benched him after pick 3 and got White in there. 

[jgb]

10 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Exactly. Out of all the decisions that made me scratch my head, not having a Veteran in the QB room always confused me the most. 

Really a head scratcher. Especially when you see how cheap guys like Tyrod Taylor/Minshew/Trubisky were had for. Any of those guys would've been a very reasonable option for the 2021 Jets. I'm worried if Zach misses time it puts our skill players' development into stasis.

[heymangold]

1 hour ago, batman10023 said:

5 draft picks hurt.  that is unheard of.

he's on the hot seat in my view.  if his first draft class ends up stinking and Wilson doesn't take a big leap next year - i think he's gone.

 

i guess it is but still, you can't hold it against him that these guys are hurt.  Becton was a starter, Davis a projected starter.  Perine apparently was having a good preseason and everyone here loves mims. 

i'm not disagreeing with you though - FA deals, while money wise have been solid, aren't performing on the field - Mcgovern, Fant, Moses, GVR are horrendous, this d-line everyone talks about hasn't been generating a whole lot of pressure, and the LBs are a bunch of converted safeties.  we don't have to get into the secondary cause that's just a joke.

[kdels62]

38 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

The problem is that the other 52 guys on the roster suffer as well.  They need development and are playing for their contracts as well.  Zach needed to be pulled yesterday, it was beyond obvious.   

Nah, I don’t see the benefit of benching a rookie QB. Exhibit: Tua 

[#27TheDominator]

I have to say, I am surprised at the level of hate LeFleur is getting around here.  I know we have been bashing offensive coordinators since before Hackett, but c'mon.  It's a new system and some of the player's mistakes are glaring.  On one play yesterday Johnson stepped up to pick up the blitz and didn't notice the free blitz from his right until the guy was almost past.  I don't see that being on LeFleur.  Yes, the coach should have a system guys can pick up, but if it is a little complex and some guys can't cut it, fine.  Sorry if I am not freaking out after 2 weeks means I'm less of a fan.

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

If Zach Wilson didnt put up one of the worst performances I've ever seen from a QB, that was a very winnable game.  Just a modicum of competence from the QB position and the Jets win.  

This was a conscious decision by the coaching staff and GM to throw him to the wolves in spite of what's best for this team and quite frankly, for Zach.  And that's the shame of it, when you're rebuilding and you dont really know what you have and you're breaking in a bunch of unknows and hoping for next season, having a QB like Wilson basically negates any roster assessment's you can make.

If we had a somewhat semi-competent veteran back up he could have went in after Zazh’s 3rd pic we could have very possibly still one that game. Ride or die and shit. 

[doitny]

2 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

I have news for you. Our 2019 team would beat our 2021 team. Disagree? 

ill tell you what i told the Panther fan who was giving me sh*t cause Sam beat us. 

i wish this game was week 10. i think it would be a different story after we get a little more experience.

[#27TheDominator]

14 minutes ago, jgb said:

Really a head scratcher. Especially when you see how cheap guys like Tyrod Taylor/Minshew/Trubisky were had for. Any of those guys would've been a very reasonable option for the 2021 Jets. I'm worried if Zach misses time it puts our skill players' development into stasis.

Isn't the best way to find out if the kid is worth keep as the franchise guy, by your know, playing him?  Plenty of good QBs were not as good as veteran Andy Dalton as rookies.  Drew Brees couldn't see the field because of Doug Flutie.  Better we see what Wilson has rather than have a bunch of geniuses screaming to see Trubisky or Tyrod Taylor because he had a bad game.  I get your fear they won't pull a Josh Rosen on him, but you are complaining about something that hasn't happened yet.  IMO having a Minshew or Trubisky on roster is in direct opposition of you stated desire of finding out about Wilson quickly.  I'm not against trying to catch a Tannehill with one of those guys, but that is not collective board wisdom.

[jgb]

10 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Isn't the best way to find out if the kid is worth keep as the franchise guy, by your know, playing him?  Plenty of good QBs were not as good as veteran Andy Dalton as rookies.  Drew Brees couldn't see the field because of Doug Flutie.  Better we see what Wilson has rather than have a bunch of geniuses screaming to see Trubisky or Tyrod Taylor because he had a bad game.  I get your fear they won't pull a Josh Rosen on him, but you are complaining about something that hasn't happened yet.  IMO having a Minshew or Trubisky on roster is in direct opposition of you stated desire of finding out about Wilson quickly.  I'm not against trying to catch a Tannehill with one of those guys, but that is not collective board wisdom.

I'm not saying we should've started those guys over Wilson. I'm saying I wish we had a legitimate replacement-level QB waiting if Zach misses time due to injury or a mental health/confidence reset. There is a whole team that needs to develop. With Luke Falk level of play, the whole team is in stasis -- skill players can learn nothing in such an environment. And yes, one of those guys could provide potential bust insurance for Wilson. But again -- to be super clear -- once we drafted Wilson I would've started him from day 1 over those guys.

[Albaniajet]

What a shocker Woody picked another lousy GM

[kevinc855]

21 minutes ago, doitny said:

ill tell you what i told the Panther fan who was giving me sh*t cause Sam beat us. 

i wish this game was week 10. i think it would be a different story after we get a little more experience.

Ok, this is the new theme I hear. The jets will have it all together by November. I will be waiting, no one wants this to be right more then me because sitting up in the 300s watching this is unforgiving 

[jeremy2020]

It's like you guys don't even know that you have to rebuild the first rebuild. Did Mac teach you nothing about success?

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

I'm not saying we should've started those guys over Wilson. I'm saying I wish we had a legitimate replacement-level QB waiting if Zach misses time due to injury or a mental health/confidence reset. There is a whole team that needs to develop. With Luke Falk level of play, the whole team is in stasis -- skill players can learn nothing in such an environment. And yes, one of those guys could provide potential bust insurance for Wilson. But again -- to be super clear -- once we drafted Wilson I would've started him from day 1 over those guys.

You say that, but you would have a tough time starting Wilson over Minshew this week and the crowd and press would be even worse.  God knows kevin would be starting Flacco next week.  He is confused by my post saying I expected them to have a rough start to the season.  Sink or swim.  I get the feeling, but IMO Wilson hasn't been that bad.  I think a bunch of that stuff is on the receivers. It's exactly the reason I think that Mims is not on the field. 

With any luck, there will be a level of the players learning and, if necessary, the coaches dialing back to the point they can understand.  This seems like the opposite of what Sparano preached.  "Know and know you know" was his motto.  When you know what you are supposed to do, you do it fast.  When you don't, you do the wrong thing or the right thing slowly.

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You say that, but you would have a tough time starting Wilson over Minshew this week and the crowd and press would be even worse.  God knows kevin would be starting Flacco next week.  He is confused by my post saying I expected them to have a rough start to the season.  Sink or swim.  I get the feeling, but IMO Wilson hasn't been that bad.  I think a bunch of that stuff is on the receivers. It's exactly the reason I think that Mims is not on the field. 

With any luck, there will be a level of the players learning and, if necessary, the coaches dialing back to the point they can understand.  This seems like the opposite of what Sparano preached.  "Know and know you know" was his motto.  When you know what you are supposed to do, you do it fast.  When you don't, you do the wrong thing or the right thing slowly.

#1 kevin isn't HC or voice of Jets fans everywhere

#2 hypothetical press response should not prevent you from improving your team

#3 if Wilson can't hack some media fire and brimstone, his tenure in NYC is going to be short indeed. To feel the need to protect him by having zero behind him is not only kid-gloving but a dereliction of a GM's duty.

Look I really like Trubisky and to a lesser extent Minshew but when you invest the #2 overall in a guy, you gotta let him work it out unless it gets to the point it's doing him more harm than good.

[carlito1171]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

The record this year is irrelevant. I hate to say that. I'm also sick of the endless rebuilding cycles and every season only being about "figuring out if we have a FQB" but here we are again.

My fear is that Wilson is right around the Mendoza line of rookie QBs. Not good enough to give us reasonable confidence that he's "the man" but not poor enough to accept we need to bring in legitimate competition/plan B (either through draft or FA) next season.

Continued purgatory is what I fear most.

That is a nightmare scenario man....and one I hope doesn't come true

Because that's exactly where we were after 1 year of Sanchez/Geno/Darnold 

[kevinc855]

17 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You say that, but you would have a tough time starting Wilson over Minshew this week and the crowd and press would be even worse.  God knows kevin would be starting Flacco next week.  He is confused by my post saying I expected them to have a rough start to the season.  Sink or swim.  I get the feeling, but IMO Wilson hasn't been that bad.  I think a bunch of that stuff is on the receivers. It's exactly the reason I think that Mims is not on the field. 

With any luck, there will be a level of the players learning and, if necessary, the coaches dialing back to the point they can understand.  This seems like the opposite of what Sparano preached.  "Know and know you know" was his motto.  When you know what you are supposed to do, you do it fast.  When you don't, you do the wrong thing or the right thing slowly.

No, that is incorrect. I may of pulled him yesterday so he could regroup, humble himself and reset. 

Flacco played in a Super Bowl, having him review tape with Zach is more comforting to me then having Mike White break down tape with him. Just my thoughts. 

Also, its the Jets so I always think injuries. This team with Mike White is where the wheels come off the burning vehicle. That is good for no one. 

[Warfish]

3 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

What’s the plan?! Seriously been asking this for 3 years with ridicule till the last few weeks people started taking notice.

Same as it was yesterday morning, same as it was before Week 1.  Youth all around, new staff, Wilson, and amassing draft capital.

Quote

We have stripped this team of any talent at all justifying it with “draft capital” Well how’s that  working out for us? 

We're 0-2 and we've played poorly.  

Quote

We have gutted all veteran talent with trades or cuts for “cap space” Well how’s that working for us?

We're 0-2 and we've played poorly.

Which Veterans are you angry we traded/cut, and how do you see those veterans (if here) making a difference to our 0-2 record?

Quote

We decided to throw a QB on an NFL field without a real oline and zero mentorship with a veteran. Well how’s that work out for us?

Do you think Zack doesn't throw 4 INT's yesterday is we had a veteran JAG as our #2 QB?

Quote

This “rebuild” is failing.

2 games in seems premature to make such a definitive statement.

Quote

The boo birds were out in game 1 of 9 home games. The Jets cannot continue to put garbage on the field and get a pass yet again how some “rebuild” plan we never see the results from. 

Says who?  They've put rotting tripe on the field for most of the last decade, and still turn a tiny profit and have a full stadium.

When you say "cannot", what do you mean exactly?  Because it sure appears like they "can", and folks still go and buy gear and watch the games.

Quote

I seriously don’t know or understand the “rebuild” 

It's not rocket science.

-Youth all around

-New Coaching Staff

-#2 pick QB Wilson

-Amass draft capital for future drafts, a la the Pats, Steelers, etc.

Now, this plan certainly might not work, might have the wrong GM, might have the wrong Coaches, might have the wrong QB, might have the wrong youth.  All possible.

But the plan itself is pretty simple and pretty obvious.

[kevinc855]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Same as it was yesterday morning, same as it was before Week 1.  Youth all around, new staff, Wilson, and amassing draft capital.

We're 0-2 and we've played poorly.  

We're 0-2 and we've played poorly.

Which Veterans are you angry we traded/cut, and how do you see those veterans (if here) making a difference to our 0-2 record?

Do you think Zack doesn't throw 4 INT's yesterday is we had a veteran JAG as our #2 QB?

2 games in seems premature to make such a definitive statement.

Says who?  They've out tripe on the field for most of the last decade, and still turn a tiny profit and have a full stadium.

When you say "cannot", what do you mean exactly?  Because it sure appears like they "can", and folks still go and buy gear and watch the games.

It's not rocket science.

-Youth all around

-New Coaching Staff

-#2 pick QB Wilson

-Amass draft capital for future drafts, a la the Pats, Steelers, etc.

Now, this plan certainly might not work, might have the wrong GM, might have the wrong Coaches, might have the wrong QB, might have the wrong youth.  All possible.

But the plan itself is pretty simple and pretty obvious.

Can you just respond like a normal poster and not quote peoples comments like 7-8 times. Very confusing

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, kevinc855 said:

Can you just respond like a normal poster and not quote peoples comments like 7-8 times. Very confusing

I addressed/answered your points, point by point, with specific answers to those points.

If you can't understand that, if it's too complex for you, feel free to ignore. 

No skin off my back.

[kevinc855]

10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I addressed/answered your points, point by point, with specific answers to those points.

If you can't understand that, if it's too complex for you, feel free to ignore. 

No skin off my back.

Yes I think I will ignore…

moving on

[jgb]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

The problem is that the other 52 guys on the roster suffer as well.  They need development and are playing for their contracts as well.  Zach needed to be pulled yesterday, it was beyond obvious.   

Exactly. Just inexcusable to not bring in another QB. 

[Big_Slick]

JD's rebuild strategy is the correct approach for building a consistently good team that will be playoff contenders most seasons.

It's JD's execution that sucks. He can't draft or sign FA's and lets our good players walk.

If it wasn't for Pete Carroll having a senior moment and giving away the farm for Jamal JD hasn't done anything in 2.5 years.

[Charlie Brown]

3 hours ago, Claymation said:

It isn't?

What were your expectations for this year? Be honest, there is no wrong answer.

[jgb]

20 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Can you just respond like a normal poster and not quote peoples comments like 7-8 times. Very confusing

He was doing you a favor. Lot easier to read it that way than a massive paragraph with all the answers mashed together.