The “rebuild” isn’t working

[SAR I]

8 hours ago, slimjasi said:

That team also started 1-7 (with a SECOND YEAR QB) when the season was still up for grabs and then beat a bunch of tomato cans to eek out 6 of their last 8 wins. This team has played two games. 

Long way to go comparing this team to that one. 

They started 1-7 because of mononucleosis and 16 players on IR.  “Second year quarterback“ did not play for four of those games and wasn’t himself for four of those games.

Carolina and New England ‘21 were no stronger than Miami, Oakland, and Pittsburgh ‘19 were.  Tomato Can Theory doesn’t hold water either. 

Gase did a lot more with a lot less than Saleh has.  I know I know, no one wants to hear this because the entire theory that Adam Gase was the problem needs to remain intact. The alternative is too terrifying to think about.

SAR I

[Fantasy Island]

On 9/20/2021 at 9:03 AM, rangerous said:

becton, davis, mann, perrine, and clark are injured.  you can criticise all you want about guys like zuniga and even mims.  even there mims didn't play because of the coaches decision.  so just what other douglas draftee from 2 years ago besides hall?  and of the 2020 draftees which ones actually haven't shown anything?  zuniga, morgan, clark.  getting 5 players out of a draft is pretty darn good and becton promises to be a special player and maybe even mims.

Imagine if Zuniga and Davis were not picked and we got a Center and Right Guard.

[Fantasy Island]

On 9/20/2021 at 9:32 AM, #27TheDominator said:

I honestly don't give a **** if you chill or not.  If you expected this team to be good you were delusional.  This team was designed to develop slowly over the long haul.  Will it work?  Who the **** knows?  Probably not, but if you expected them to be good out of the gate this year you are a maroon.

We should have beat Carolina.  We should have stayed close with NE.  We did neither.  I have lowered my expectations now from 7 wins to maybe 4 if the stars align.  

[Fantasy Island]

9 hours ago, DoubleDown said:

It's amazing what one week of getting battered can do to a quarterback.  The Panthers rattled Wilson, and he subsequently spent the entire game in Week 2 throwing off his back foot whether there was real pressure or not.  We did not see these tendencies at all during camp and preseason.

The Jets need to fix it and quickly.  The last thing we need is the young franchise quarterback getting ruined before he reaches the halfway point of his rookie season.  The offensive line should have been embarrassed by their performance in Week 1.  They rebounded nicely, but some damage has already been done.  Wilson needs to settle back down and gain his confidence back.  It's easier said than done.

Because we weren't running this LaFleur complicated B...S....., Keep it simple and build Zach's confidence.

[Maynard13]

56 minutes ago, SAR I said:

They started 1-7 because of mononucleosis and 16 players on IR.  “Second year quarterback“ did not play for four of those games and wasn’t himself for four of those games.

Carolina and New England ‘21 were no stronger than Miami, Oakland, and Pittsburgh ‘19 were.  Tomato Can Theory doesn’t hold water either. 

Gase did a lot more with a lot less than Saleh has.  I know I know, no one wants to hear this because the entire theory that Adam Gase was the problem needs to remain intact. The alternative is too terrifying to think about.

SAR I

Actually you're the problem.

[FidelioJet]

4 hours ago, FactsOnly said:

He was pinpoint accurate the first game

Yeah. After rewatching and chatting with others, I agree and unfortunately I think it’s much worse. 
Seems like his footwork was a mess in week 2 (mostly good in week 1) I’m really hoping it’s not because he’s already shell shocked from the week 1 game. 
If that’s happened already he’s going to bust.  

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

They started 1-7 because of mononucleosis and 16 players on IR.  “Second year quarterback“ did not play for four of those games and wasn’t himself for four of those games.

Carolina and New England ‘21 were no stronger than Miami, Oakland, and Pittsburgh ‘19 were.  Tomato Can Theory doesn’t hold water either. 

Gase did a lot more with a lot less than Saleh has.  I know I know, no one wants to hear this because the entire theory that Adam Gase was the problem needs to remain intact. The alternative is too terrifying to think about.

SAR I

I largely agree with you about Gase in 2019 - I firmly believe he deserved to come back in 2020. But that’s where he lost his job, no questions asked.

And I also agree that the former GM was easily a bigger problem than Gase, BUT:

Let’s hit the brakes on comparing Gase to Saleh. “Did a lot more with less than Saleh has.”

 

Calm down. Saleh has coached two games. Let’s revisit this in a couple of months.  
 

 

[Ghost]

10 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

More upvotes then downvotes..believe you are in the minority sir 

You’re so negative dude. You can be walking down the street, find a $5 bill, and will complain it’s not a $20. 

[redlichtie]

On 9/20/2021 at 1:20 PM, jgb said:

If you're going to trade the cow for magic beans, you better be sure they sprout into a beanstalk.

Cow’s are not difference makers

[kevinc855]

22 minutes ago, Ghost said:

You’re so negative dude. You can be walking down the street, find a $5 bill, and will complain it’s not a $20. 

The last decade of Jets football will do that to ya. Also on my 3rd rebuild in that time. But this time we are as bad as we been in a decade because we are doing it the “right way”this time. That’s the talking point as least 

[Ghost]

1 minute ago, kevinc855 said:

The last decade of Jets football will do that to ya. Also on my 3rd rebuild in that time. But this time we are as bad as we been in a decade because we are doing it the “right way”this time. That’s the talking point as least 

Did you expect to make the playoffs this year? This year is all about Zach. If he can have a bounce back game on Sunday, that is literally equivalent to a win. 

[MyFavoriteMartin28]

Do you know what the winning teams have…Continuity with Front office, Coaching Staff, and the players. Jets fans have about one season of patience and then want to fire everybody. Let these guys do their thing instead of constantly doing the same crap every three years. We finally appear to have a GM and Coach working together, and they selected their qb let’s see it play out. 

[Irish Jet]

1 minute ago, MyFavoriteMartin28 said:

Do you know what the winning teams have…Continuity with Front office, Coaching Staff, and the players. Jets fans have about one season of patience and then want to fire everybody. Let these guys do their thing instead of constantly doing the same crap every three years. We finally appear to have a GM and Coach working together, and they selected their qb let’s see it play out. 

By this logic we should have kept Mac and Gase.

Incompetence has to be held accountable. Those winning teams have continuity because they win, not the other way round. 

[kevinc855]

25 minutes ago, Ghost said:

Did you expect to make the playoffs this year? This year is all about Zach. If he can have a bounce back game on Sunday, that is literally equivalent to a win. 

Oh my goodness. No one was talking deep playoff run this year but this is a 2-3 win team. This is a professional league, conceding seasons isn’t a real thing. Last year we lose to get Trevor this year we lose to develop Zach, that doesn’t even make sense.

Go get some talent and win some football games and not lose 25-6 at home. It’s not that hard 

[jgb]

50 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

Cow’s are not difference makers

I dunno... put a 1,500 lb heifer in the middle of the line, might help.

[MyFavoriteMartin28]

32 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

By this logic we should have kept Mac and Gase.

Incompetence has to be held accountable. Those winning teams have continuity because they win, not the other way round. 

Macc and Gase were not working together. The Johnsons hired Gase because of the wonder ou Peyton Manning. 

[jamesr]

36 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

By this logic we should have kept Mac and Gase.

Incompetence has to be held accountable. Those winning teams have continuity because they win, not the other way round. 

Dysfunction between GM and HC is terminal - that is what we had between Gase and Macc (and also Macc and Bowles - spot a common element here). And Idzik / Rex, which is another sorry part of the story.

As long as JD and Saleh are working together and "getting on", we should then start to see some progress over time. If dysfunction starts to creep in, you need to make corrections ASAP or make a change. This requires an owner who knows what they're doing ... not something that we have sadly.

If there is continued cooperation and no progress on-field, then you have to question what is going wrong. It's all well and good having a GM / HC team that get on well, but that has to lead to results, otherwise it's all kumbaya and no wins. (Hey, new Jet motto for 2024, book it!). It's at this point you have to question if GM / HC / both are just over their heads. 

 

[kevinc855]

1 hour ago, Irish Jet said:

By this logic we should have kept Mac and Gase.

Incompetence has to be held accountable. Those winning teams have continuity because they win, not the other way round. 

Bingo 

[Claymation]

1 hour ago, Irish Jet said:

By this logic we should have kept Mac and Gase.

Incompetence has to be held accountable. Those winning teams have continuity because they win, not the other way round. 

Except that Gase's offense looked incompetent, he was fired for providing that. This team has had 2 games with a rookie QB, HC and OC, to say that they are incompetent is a bit premature.

[Claymation]

11 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Bingo 

...was his name-O?

[Jethead]

On 9/20/2021 at 11:14 AM, kevinc855 said:

Ok, this is the new theme I hear. The jets will have it all together by November. I will be waiting, no one wants this to be right more then me because sitting up in the 300s watching this is unforgiving 

Careful, you're starting to sound like that other asshat.

[NamathToCaster]

Up to this point the defense is holding it's own.  The offense is a mess.  I feel it is more offensive coaching then talent of the players.  I guess what I am trying to say is the OC is making the rebuild look bad.  

[SAR I]

6 hours ago, Maynard13 said:

Actually you're the problem.

No, your problem is your false belief that getting rid of Adam Gase and allowing his hand-picked yes-man complete control over the franchise is just about the biggest misread in Jets forum history.

That's on you, not me.

SAR I

[Albaniajet]

23 minutes ago, NamathToCaster said:

Up to this point the defense is holding it's own.  The offense is a mess.  I feel it is more offensive coaching then talent of the players.  I guess what I am trying to say is the OC is making the rebuild look bad.  

The OC and the qb

[SAR I]

5 hours ago, slimjasi said:

I largely agree with you about Gase in 2019 - I firmly believe he deserved to come back in 2020. But that’s where he lost his job, no questions asked.

And I also agree that the former GM was easily a bigger problem than Gase, BUT:

Let’s hit the brakes on comparing Gase to Saleh. “Did a lot more with less than Saleh has.”

Calm down. Saleh has coached two games. Let’s revisit this in a couple of months.  

I'm not in the business of defending Adam Gase anymore, he sucked, we've moved on, I have no qualms with Saleh, I like his rah-rah do-gooder approach, I get he's trying to change the culture, etc. etc.

But Joe Douglas is not Mr. Culture.  He's not part of this 'new regime' we're being sold.  He's in his 3rd year, he's been here longer than Idzik, he's already done the 80% that's the easy part-  cleaned house, built a new player personnel department, fired the HC, brought in a new coaching staff, cut or traded every expensive player, accumulated draft capital and draft space.  Joe Douglas is now needed for one thing and one thing only-  picking players.

And he sucks at it.  And the longer he stays here the worse we are going to get.  And no smoke and mirrors from Saleh or Tweets from the communications department about "getting better" is going to change that.

SAR I

[SAR I]

3 hours ago, Ghost said:

You’re so negative dude. You can be walking down the street, find a $5 bill, and will complain it’s not a $20. 

What exactly has happened in the first 2 games to convince you that things are better after 2 drafts, 2.5 free agent periods, a superior HC, and superior OC, and a superior DC have come to town?

I see teams across the league that have made changes and they are winning games.  We are losing.  Badly.  Quinnen, Becton, Mims, these guys were supposed to be gamechangers under fresh leadership and fresh playcalling, they were supposedly held down by the prior coaching staff.  And they look like the same sh-t as they did last year.  And the QB?  Has the OL in Carolina ruined him already?  And what the hell playbook was in effect against New England that put him in a position to make such high risk throws?  It's irresponsible coaching that he would even think he could put the ball up for grabs as he did.

Name one player, coach, or scout on the Jets who is exceeding your expectations.  <crickets>

SAR I

[Scotty Wooty Doo Doo]

One would think we were 0-8 !!!

[SAR I]

3 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

But this time we are as bad as we been in a decade because we are doing it the “right way”this time. That’s the talking point as least 

People forget how we were relevant in our history, it's like they forget that doing it differently than other teams didn't actually work:

Stealing Someone Else's Players - Sonny Werblin stole Joe Namath and Weeb Eubank from the NFL, the magic lasted 3 years,  and we won a Super Bowl.

Stealing Someone Else's Staff - Leon Hess tampering with the Patriots and getting Parcells, Belichick, and Weis got us to within 30 minutes of the Super Bowl overnight and set the franchise on a course for 15 years of competitive football.  Everything else has been rookies after rookies after rookies and it never works.

Saying "F--- The Draft" - Bringing in an aggressive GM with a different approach in Tannenbaum who focused almost entirely on remaining competitive through free agency and loading up on the likes of Jones, Favre, Richardson, Faneca, Woody, Jenkins, Pace, Edwards, Scott, Tomlinson, Holmes, Cromartie.  That's 10-12 of 22 starters being proven, veteran, experienced, can't-miss commodities.  And we immediately went to elite status from 2008 to 2011, won 4 of 6 playoff games, and advanced to consecutive Championship Games.

This do it the "right way" thing hasn't been working because we are the Jets, we aren't the franchise that top talent wants to come to.  Doing this organically won't work on the back of the scrub personnel, scrub coaching, and disappointed draft picks we beg to come here.  What worked in the past can work again.  It's surely better than this.

SAR I

[varjet]

1 hour ago, NamathToCaster said:

Up to this point the defense is holding it's own.  The offense is a mess.  I feel it is more offensive coaching then talent of the players.  I guess what I am trying to say is the OC is making the rebuild look bad.  

It is the coaching and the GM permitting unacceptable missing links at certain positions.  

[varjet]

39 minutes ago, SAR I said:

What exactly has happened in the first 2 games to convince you that things are better after 2 drafts, 2.5 free agent periods, a superior HC, and superior OC, and a superior DC have come to town?

I see teams across the league that have made changes and they are winning games.  We are losing.  Badly.  Quinnen, Becton, Mims, these guys were supposed to be gamechangers under fresh leadership and fresh playcalling, they were supposedly held down by the prior coaching staff.  And they look like the same sh-t as they did last year.  And the QB?  Has the OL in Carolina ruined him already?  And what the hell playbook was in effect against New England that put him in a position to make such high risk throws?  It's irresponsible coaching that he would even think he could put the ball up for grabs as he did.

Name one player, coach, or scout on the Jets who is exceeding your expectations.  <crickets>

SAR I

It appears to me that Saleh/Ulbrich and JD have built a defense and drafted players to fit and appear to be doing decently. 

JD’s 2020 draft appears to be some form of a disaster.   That has set back the rebuild and 2020 is basically a mulligan year.  

The key for Saleh now is to become HC of the entire team and get involved with LaFleur and fix the problems.  He should be telling JD to find him an OL in a trade.  

The ultimate key to JD/Saleh is whether Wilson is a Pro Bowl caliber QB.  I don’t think last Sunday rules that out.  

[sec101row23]

Some good news for the perpetual rebuild…..

 

 

[Trotter]

2 hours ago, Claymation said:

Except that Gase's offense looked incompetent, he was fired for providing that. This team has had 2 games with a rookie QB, HC and OC, to say that they are incompetent is a bit premature.

Exactly - it has been two games and in those two games we do not have a head coach who's face is buried in a laminated card and and OC who was standing on the sideline lucky to have his headset on right. This staff will be ok.

And Dean was and still is the king of cool. One of his under rated songs but an absolute classic is Money Burns a Hole in My Pocket. 

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

JD’s 2020 draft appears to be some form of a disaster.   That has set back the rebuild and 2020 is basically a mulligan year.

It's unbelievable that the fanbase that wanted Gase out of here after 4 weeks is going to give Douglas 4 years.  He's a bad GM.  Whiffing on an entire draft, and one where he had an unprecedented 10 months to prepare, is going to go down as one of the biggest Jets blunders in our history.  It's unfathomable how people just keep letting him off the hook because he looks like their beer-drinking fantasy football buddy.

1 hour ago, varjet said:

The ultimate key to JD/Saleh is whether Wilson is a Pro Bowl caliber QB.

Picking the consensus #2 quarterback at #2 is not an example of great drafting.  My mom makes that pick if she's on the clock.  The indictment is blowing the 2020 draft, the 2020 free agent class, and misreading bad-character guys like Mims, Quinnen, and Becton.  Douglas is a disaster.  The planes should be flying by Halloween.

SAR I

[Joe W. Namath]

Joe Ds most recent draft looks to be a hit.  AVT is a monster.  Elijah Moore and Carter are already contributing.  Carter 2, Echols and Hamsah all look like players.

His draft last year was for players that fit Gase's system.  So it is not surprising that they are not panning out in this system..

But the players he has picked for Saleh's system look great!

[Joe W. Namath]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

It's unbelievable that the fanbase that wanted Gase out of here after 4 weeks is going to give Douglas 4 years.  He's a bad GM.  Whiffing on an entire draft, and one where he had an unprecedented 10 months to prepare, is going to go down as one of the biggest Jets blunders in our history.  It's unfathomable how people just keep letting him off the hook because he looks like their beer-drinking fantasy football buddy.

Picking the consensus #2 quarterback at #2 is not an example of great drafting.  My mom makes that pick if she's on the clock.  The indictment is blowing the 2020 draft, the 2020 free agent class, and misreading bad-character guys like Mims, Quinnen, and Becton.  Douglas is a disaster.  The planes should be flying by Halloween.

SAR I

We waiting 9 weeks on Gase.  Planes didnt go up until Novemeber.

But the planes should have went up after 4 weeks.  That was our mistake.

When do you plan on making your voice heard about Douglas outside of this message board?  What are you waiting for?