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The “rebuild” isn’t working


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9 minutes ago, Icer said:

The Leo trade worked out because you dont want to pay average players 20 million dollars a year. Getting anything back and avoiding that foolish extension is a win in it of itself. Regardless of Ashtyn Davis being injured

In the case of Leo, we don’t pay QW, Rankins and JFM combined $20mm/year.  I think we are getting equal or better production.  

If Jamal was on the Jets maybe we win the Carolina game.   But I don’t think for that money he is getting us to .500.  

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20 minutes ago, Icer said:

The Leo trade worked out because you dont want to pay average players 20 million dollars a year. Getting anything back and avoiding that foolish extension is a win in it of itself. Regardless of Ashtyn Davis being injured

Agree to disagree 

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22 minutes ago, FootballLove said:

After burning our top 6 picks in 2021 on Offense, JD could switch gears in 2022 and draft D. That would essentially put the same offense on the field next year as this year. Scary.

I imagine JD will be verY busy in FA next year. 2022 will be a put up or shut up year for him

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1 hour ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

There has been one single solitary "week to week" so far.  So every NFL team improves week to week?  If the Jets beat Denver, should Denver fans scream for their CS and GM to be fired because they did not get better from week to week. With 32 teams playing 16 games a week, how exactly does this week to week improvement work?  

Week to week yes we should see improvements we should see better play from a rebuilding team. They practice week to week right or do they just show up to games on Sundays. 

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12 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

The defense is 0-2 like the rest of the team. 

So you want to see improvement ... but when we see it, it doesn't count if we don't win as a result? That's a rather binary way to look at things.

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Just now, jamesr said:

So you want to see improvement ... but when we see it, it doesn't count if we don't win as a result? That's a rather binary way to look at things.

Whats improved on the D.

Did you see CMC in the Carolina game how about Sam Darold the D made him look good. 

Did you see the TD run against NE where there were 7 missed tackles. 

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1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

Whats improved on the D.

Did you see CMC in the Carolina game how about Sam Darold the D made him look good. 

Did you see the TD run against NE where there were 7 missed tackles. 

We gave up 381 yards against Carolina and only had 252 ourselves, and lost the ToP battle. Only notched up one sack and generally hardly bothered the opposing QB all day.

Against NE we gave up 260 yards and had 336 ourselves, more than tripling our rushing yardage in the process. Won the ToP battle. Despite 4 gift turnovers we only surrendered 2 TDs, often turning short fields into FGs. Had a lot better success on getting to the QB (3 sacks). Protected our own QB better. Those are the some of the improvements I saw.

I'm not saying there weren't negatives too - turnovers is the obvious one, penalties was another. But there are positives. They may not yet reflect on the W column, but there's only so much that can be improved in one week.

And yes, I did see the TD run with 7 missed tackles. The other team is going to make plays, we're not going to turn into a perfect D overnight. There were 54 offensive plays run by NE, only having that one that sticks out as terrible defensive play could be seen as a good thing. If it were happening 5-6 times a game I'd be far more worried.

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1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

Week to week yes we should see improvements we should see better play from a rebuilding team. They practice week to week right or do they just show up to games on Sundays. 

So all 32 teams are expected to improve every week?  Really?  No variance in play from one week to the next?  How did the 2007 Pats ever lose to the Giants in the SB?  Should BB have been fired because there was no "week to week " improvement over the AFC championship to the SB?  How do you measure this improvement?  Is it wins and losses ?  If so, then half the league fails your test every week.  Is it by unit?  If so, the Jets had marked improvement in some areas in week 2, but you are going to be continually disappointed because all areas of the team are not going to play better each and every week.  This is just a ridiculous statement in general and even more so when you consider the season is two weeks old.  Please.  

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1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

Sure, no dispute on that. JA trade may work out. We will see

The Leo trade certainly did not. 

There is still another 1st rounder for JA.

This offseason, I'd rather have 20 million for O Line than have Leo himself.   It would have been great if JD drafted someone for him.

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2 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

How? Sloppy QB play. Uncreative play calling. Down by double digits early in both games? 

I will say the defense looks slightly better. But man, its kinda bad right now. 

A feisty competitive defense. Young players at all key spots. An offensive line that was moving the ball in the running game. Upside at receiver.

I was worried after the Panthers game that "nothing had changed." As bad as Wilson was against the Pats I thought the rest of the team really showed some promise.

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20 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

So all 32 teams are expected to improve every week?  Really?  No variance in play from one week to the next?  How did the 2007 Pats ever lose to the Giants in the SB?  Should BB have been fired because there was no "week to week " improvement over the AFC championship to the SB?  How do you measure this improvement?  Is it wins and losses ?  If so, then half the league fails your test every week.  Is it by unit?  If so, the Jets had marked improvement in some areas in week 2, but you are going to be continually disappointed because all areas of the team are not going to play better each and every week.  This is just a ridiculous statement in general and even more so when you consider the season is two weeks old.  Please.  

All 32 NFL teams haven't been rebuilding for 52 years. 

Are you watching the same NY Jets football most of us are. 

Sloppy unprepared undisciplined. 

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17 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

All 32 NFL teams haven't been rebuilding for 52 years. 

Are you watching the same NY Jets football most of us are. 

Sloppy unprepared undisciplined. 

What happened 52 years ago or even last season does not matter. It's about making the team competitive going forward.  Impatience gets you nowhere.  What do you want to do?  Fire Saleh? Douglas?  How do you ever build anything if this "I'm tired of losing and want to win now" tantrum continues? I'd much rather endure this for a season and win 2-3 games again with the chance to build a perennial winning team in 2022-3 and onward rather than win 7-8 games this year with mediocrity as the perpetual ceiling.  

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3 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Paying Jamal and Leo long term might kinda help is get to 2-0? Let’s see what Sam does when he plays a team  that can score and force him to play from behind. I guess if 2-0 is your ultimate goal? You and I will look at Jamal and Leo are both on high paid cruise control and pretty sure they stay there. So if you wanted to pay them and celebrate 2-0 rocking your Trumaine Johnson jersey then more power to you. Just because Joe Douglas sucks at drafting doesn’t mean keeping those two are a good idea. 

All I know is that for the Jets to get better, not only does the GM have to pick good players but you need good players on the roster to make mediocre players better.

Jamal would have been overpaid, but would he have helped elevate a very young defense?  Yes.  Robbie with the likes of Mims and Moore?  Yes.  We're a team with no players.  We traded away 4-6 really good ones.  At Joe Douglas' pace, we'll have a roster with 4-6 guys we're really proud of including 2 Pro Bowlers in 2031.

SAR I

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8 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

What happened 52 years ago or even last season does not matter. It's about making the team competitive going forward.  Impatience gets you nowhere.  What do you want to do?  Fire Saleh? Douglas?  How do you ever build anything if this "I'm tired of losing and want to win now" tantrum continues? I'd much rather endure this for a season and win 2-3 games again with the chance to build a perennial winning team in 2022-3 and onward rather than win 7-8 games this year with mediocrity as the perpetual ceiling.  

It does matter. 

Will you say this every year what happened this year doesn't matter. 

Everything every year matters. 

What don't you understand. 

Stop making excuses for failure.

52 years and counting this team hasn't won a damn thing. 

How many GM's,HC's,QB's. 

Show me some progressive progress. 

Positives improvements at key positions. 

Win some damn games. 

Draft better. 

Sign better free agents. 

Put a competitive team on the field every Sunday. 

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3 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

We picked Ashyton Davis with the Leo pick. So we traded Leo for a guy who cant get on the field. I like to have that back thank you.

Not to mention, Joe Douglas just played hardball and humiliated/angered Marcus Maye who will never, ever sign with us again.  15 games from now, poof, another high draft pick that was supposed to be our reward for painful suckage, gone. 

You think our secondary is bad now?  Just wait till next year.

SAR I

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Funny how usually after 4 games we have some teams 4-0 and others 0-4 and I bet the % of them going to the playoffs or winning the super bowl is about the same.  To complain this vociferously after 2 games is asinine. 

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3 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

See, I just don't think this is true at all.

They're still bad, but they look very different to me.

On D we're still roughing the passer and taking penalties and getting gashed on no-brainer wheel routes.  

On O we're not running anything more sophisticated than Loggains did last year, we just subbed a bunch of scrubs for Gore.

On ST things look even to last year, perhaps we found a kicker, but he's missing kicks already.

I get that it's Week 2, and I'm not throwing in any towel, but I don't see a culture change, I don't see a relentless all-gas approach, I see a lot of slogans and nothing to back it up.

SAR I

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1 minute ago, SAR I said:

All I know is that for the Jets to get better, not only does the GM have to pick good players but you need good players on the roster to make mediocre players better.

Jamal would have been overpaid, but would he have helped elevate a very young defense?  Yes.  Robbie with the likes of Mims and Moore?  Yes.  We're a team with no players.  We traded away 4-6 really good ones.  At Joe Douglas' pace, we'll have a roster with 4-6 guys we're really proud of including 2 Pro Bowlers in 2031.

SAR I

How much is Jamal elevating Seattle’s defense? All the way to #20. Not too shabby: 

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8 minutes ago, SAR I said:

We traded away 4-6 really good ones.

SAR I

Who are these 6 really good players, specifically?

And why didn't those really good players make much of a difference, W-L, when they were here?

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3 hours ago, The Crusher said:

But, keeping Jamal and Leo at those contracts wasn’t helping this team do anything but be worse longer.

So let's say that Michael Carter II goes off and becomes a really solid corner, gets selected as a Pro Bowl alternate.  Now it's his 3rd year and the Jets are still several years away from being a contender and he is owed a massive contract.  So we should trade him instead of paying him, right?

Eventually we have to pay our best players.  We suffered so we could draft Jamal in the first round.  We struggled and invested our time in watching young players like him and Darnold and Williams develop.  When does it stop?  When do we decide to pay our own?  We're on a constant state of rebuild because we dump our best players and replace them with Alpo.  Do they still make Alpo?  I don't own a dog.

SAR I

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3 hours ago, Claymation said:

They were a defensive stop from having a chance to win the game. But by all means continue with this narrative.

The Jets have played 959 games and overcame a deficit of 16 points or more exactly 4 times. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/comebacks.htm

The game was over the moment that Darnold ran it in from the 5 and they hit the extra point right before halftime.  The second half was nothing more than prevent defense and CMC masturbation.

SAR I

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2 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Have you tried watching the game? You would have noticed the flashes.

I don't count the offensive flashes in garbage time, which is what both games were.  I liked what I saw from the D in one quarter of one game.  I can't say that's a flash for them.  

Let's see what happens in Denver.  Maybe getting on the road helps Zach and maybe Teddy Bridgewater has a bad game.  Somehow we beat the playoff Rams and playoff Browns last year, blind squirrel has to show up eventually.

SAR I

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14 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Not to mention, Joe Douglas just played hardball and humiliated/angered Marcus Maye who will never, ever sign with us again.  15 games from now, poof, another high draft pick that was supposed to be our reward for painful suckage, gone. 

You think our secondary is bad now?  Just wait till next year.

SAR I

Maye will absolutely walk now....

Listen I get playing hardball from time to time but when EVERYONE is leaving we have issues. I really don't think that backup safety we will sign on a cheap one year deal will be better then Maye.

Thats my issue with JD, he takes away talent that he feels costs to much and replaces it with cheap JAG's. How on earth do you win games with that strategy let alone get to the Playoffs

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11 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

How much is Jamal elevating Seattle’s defense? All the way to #20. Not too shabby: 

Who knows, he may have flourished under Saleh.  He was our entire pass rush.  He would have helped.

We can nitpick every reason why Jamal, Robbie, and Leo would have hurt us with contracts, but in reality we could have afforded them because what we got in the form of draft capital and cap space amounted to nothing.  Hindsight at this stage shows that keeping the guys Joe Douglas walked out the door would have made this team better, and that's starting to feel like it includes Sam Darnold who looks pretty good in a new system with a new OC.

SAR I

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3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I don't count the offensive flashes in garbage time, which is what both games were.

SAR I

What a huge change from your previous view of garbage time, when you couldn't stop praising Sam and Gase for the late season flurry of wins vs. bad teams long after the Jets had been eliminated.

One can only wonder when the next flop will come after this particular flip.

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Who are these 6 really good players, specifically?

Leonard Williams
Jamal Adams
Robbie Anderson
Kelechi Osemele
Avery Williamson
Steve McLendon
Kelvin Beachum
Sam Darnold

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

And why didn't those really good players make much of a difference, W-L, when they were here?

They played for the worst head coach in the history of the NFL, remember?

SAR I
 

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3 minutes ago, Origen said:

You guys make me hate football.

There's no reason to love it.  The GM is a great negotiator and a lousy player-picker.  And he's bamboozled the fans and the media into thinking that he's a brand new shiny penny, just showed up and is part of the Year 1 crew with Saleh, LaFleur, and Ulbrich instead of being the Year 3 bust that he actually is.

We may indeed have the right strategy.  We just picked the wrong guy to lead it.  Promoting Adam Gase's hand-picked yes-man whose claim to fame is putting up a statue of a backup quarterback with the suck fluke Eagles, unbelievable.

SAR I

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2 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

I imagine JD will be verY busy in FA next year. 2022 will be a put up or shut up year for him

I heard that after last years debacle  about this year

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18 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Leonard Williams
Jamal Adams
Robbie Anderson
Kelechi Osemele
Avery Williamson
Steve McLendon
Sam Darnold

They played for the worst head coach in the history of the NFL, remember?

SAR I
 

Many will disagree with this but the top 3 on this list would not change the fact that we are 0-2 and would account for 55m annually. Add in the cancer that Jamal is and the other two were marginal players while here. I am not an all in JD fan and have been critical of him in the past, but not on these 3.

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41 minutes ago, SAR I said:

The Jets have played 959 games and overcame a deficit of 16 points or more exactly 4 times. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/comebacks.htm

The game was over the moment that Darnold ran it in from the 5 and they hit the extra point right before halftime.  The second half was nothing more than prevent defense and CMC masturbation.

SAR I

Again the Jets were a stop away from giving the offense a chance to win. I do appreciate your conviction. Keep it up!

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39 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I don't count the offensive flashes in garbage time, which is what both games were.  I liked what I saw from the D in one quarter of one game.  I can't say that's a flash for them.  

Let's see what happens in Denver.  Maybe getting on the road helps Zach and maybe Teddy Bridgewater has a bad game.  Somehow we beat the playoff Rams and playoff Browns last year, blind squirrel has to show up eventually.

SAR I

The defense is already better than expected. I've seen plenty of flashes there.

Are we going to pretend that Zach didn't march the Jets down the field twice against the Panthers? That counts as a flash.

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Just now, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

The defense is already better than expected. I've seen plenty of flashes there.

Are we going to pretend that Zach didn't march the Jets down the field twice against the Panthers? That counts as a flash.

The defense has been beaten by 2 not so good teams and the worst QB in the NFL last season and a rookie this season.

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