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Another Zach thread (ego or inability?)


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FWIW I'm no game film scholar. Also, after the second pick I was watching the game with one eye closed. All that said, it seemed to me it wasn't an issue of Zach being bamboozled and hoodwinked by Bill's "mad" genius, rather he literally thinks he can make any throw. It seems like he'll pass up on the easy plays to gamble on the highlight reel balls that worked in college. Now here is my question if my assessment is correct and he has at this point in time the mentality of a gambler who doesn't know when to fold them: is that just as bad as not being able to read defenses,is it worse? Or Is it better in the sense of it is being a coachable flaw?*

 

*All this said with consideration that was Zach's second pro game. 

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Zach got emotionally involved in this game. He was pumped up - wanting to win a big game in front of his fans - first home game of the season and he was trying to make big things happen. Once he learns to take out the emotion and just plays logically and efficiently he will be a great QB. Theres always a time when its time to go for it but when it not that time just take what the defense gives you - no emotion just logical football. Zach will get there.

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Because he has such a competitive spirit and is always trying to learn, IMO I think he will learn when to make the wow throws and when to make the safe play. 

After watching film, the 3rd int was a timing issue. If he threw earlier on target, it could have been a nice completion. 

I’m still optimistic on him. Several great QBs like Manning threw a lot of ints in the beginning because they had to adjust their aggression to the speed and timing of the NFL. If ZW can adjust as well, he will be a very good to great one.

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25 minutes ago, Nixhead said:

Zach got emotionally involved in this game. He was pumped up - wanting to win a big game in front of his fans - first home game of the season and he was trying to make big things happen. Once he learns to take out the emotion and just plays logically and efficiently he will be a great QB. Theres always a time when its time to go for it but when it not that time just take what the defense gives you - no emotion just logical football. Zach will get there.

That applies particularly to his first throw and int. It was a bad play design and he had a free runner coming at him with no one open. Instead of side stepping the pass rush and scrambling for a couple yards, it seems he tried to force the throw to wow the home crowd. 

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23 minutes ago, All Gas, No Gase said:

That applies particularly to his first throw and int. It was a bad play design and he had a free runner coming at him with no one open. Instead of side stepping the pass rush and scrambling for a couple yards, it seems he tried to force the throw to wow the home crowd. 

gladiator GIF

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3 hours ago, yvj said:

FWIW I'm no game film scholar. Also, after the second pick I was watching the game with one eye closed. 

Why? Two eyes would be better.😉

To your point that Wilson thinks he can make any throw. As Rich Eisen said, Wilson was told all pre-season the "all gas, no brakes" bull....t, and at the end of this game he was told "boring football is good"

This coaching staff is nowhere near as good as advertised. They are not clowns. I believe they try to be professional. However, Saleh and Lafleur were vastly outcoached in these first two games. Their plan has not helped Zach Wilson, for different reasons, in those games. Hopefully, they can show that they can be ahead of the rival and not just react.

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I do think the Pat's game plan was a bit deceptive all around.  They were essentially rushing 4, playing man on everyone with safeties over the top.  That's why our run game and pass pro suddenly looked better and Zach had nowhere to throw. 

On offense they were ultra conservative playing to just not turn the ball over because literally the only way they give the game away is giving us great field position a few times.

Zach is not as bad as he played on Sunday, but sadly I think the team is not as good as they looked on Sunday either.  Hopefully they all continue to improve as a unit, and the OC can get a bit more creative to help receivers get open a bit more to help Zach settle in.

Denver should be another challenge for Zach, but we're going to need more points because the Denver O has looked competent this season so far.

 

 

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It's simple the kid needs to learn to bait the defense rather than have the defense dictate to him. If he would have taken all those open underneath throws and completed them the defense would have had no choice but to adjust and that's when you strike for the big play. I think for Zach's ability and the brain power they all seem to think he possesses Sundays game was a game of terrible choices and nothing more. He's smarter and better than that and I think as the year goes on and everyone gets comfortable in this offense you will begin to see a change. 

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6 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

It's simple the kid needs to learn to bait the defense rather than have the defense dictate to him. If he would have taken all those open underneath throws and completed them the defense would have had no choice but to adjust and that's when you strike for the big play. I think for Zach's ability and the brain power they all seem to think he possesses Sundays game was a game of terrible choices and nothing more. He's smarter and better than that and I think as the year goes on and everyone gets comfortable in this offense you will begin to see a change. 

While I agree, I also don't think there were as many of these "open underneath throws" as the narrative seems to dictate.

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4 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

While I agree, I also don't think there were as many of these "open underneath throws" as the narrative seems to dictate.

That could be possible but on the Int's there seemed to be someone open underneath which would have at least avoided some of those throws. The only Int I did not have issue with was the one that went through Davis' hands he has to make that catch it was not an easy catch but when you want to be "the guy" you have to make those catches

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28 minutes ago, legler82 said:

And the bad ones.

image.gif.5c10bcb60046288ae348d74949989ba4.gif

 

One of the most bizarre pre-game "team hype-ups" I've ever witnessed.   The expressions on the players at what they were seeing was priceless. 

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23 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

I wouldn't say he's bad, but yes he did throw 30 picks that season before Brady showed up. Take a look at his career stats thus far. Is that really that bad to you?

You’re right; he’s not bad.  He’s also not great either.  I actually like Winston.  My point was just to say that interception amnesia is not exclusive to the great ones.  He popped into my head first but there are other examples.

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Look at some of Darnold’s games over his first three years.   He had some terrible games.  He is now playing solid football with solid coaching.

I blame Zach 50% and the coaching 50% for the Offense last week.  Coaching being both Lafleur and Saleh on offense and the player selection.  With Knapp gone Saleh will need to spend more time with the offense. They need to run the ball more and throw shorter passes. 

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For years we complained about having an OC / QB that took too many checkdowns and didn't challenge deep. Now we challenge deep and everyone is screaming for checkdowns again. :D 

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10 hours ago, yvj said:

FWIW I'm no game film scholar. Also, after the second pick I was watching the game with one eye closed. All that said, it seemed to me it wasn't an issue of Zach being bamboozled and hoodwinked by Bill's "mad" genius, rather he literally thinks he can make any throw. It seems like he'll pass up on the easy plays to gamble on the highlight reel balls that worked in college. Now here is my question if my assessment is correct and he has at this point in time the mentality of a gambler who doesn't know when to fold them: is that just as bad as not being able to read defenses,is it worse? Or Is it better in the sense of it is being a coachable flaw?*

 

*All this said with consideration that was Zach's second pro game. 

He can make any throw and having the balls to make any throw is a great trait for an elite NFL QB.  The reality is if the Jets ever get to the next level and are playing in big games with consequences the QB is going to have to make the big throw into a tight window.  You can't just manage the game when you're playing to move to the next round of the playoffs.  You need guys who can make plays.

The reality is he's a rookie.  He's had very few reps with the same personal.  The scheme is  new for the entire O.  The first two INT's might very well be big plays in a big game with a little better timing with Davis and Davis understaniding where Zach is going to put the ball when the coverage is a certain way. 

He's also gotten the crap beat out of him the week before and was under pressure against the Pats.  His footwork wasn't great.  

The NFL is a game of adjustments.  Zach and the staff will look at tape and adjust.  The competition will look at the adjustments and adjust. 

Literally being able to make any throw and having the confidence to make any throw is what elite QB's all have in common.  

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15 minutes ago, jamesr said:

For years we complained about having an OC / QB that took too many checkdowns and didn't challenge deep. Now we challenge deep and everyone is screaming for checkdowns again. :D 

What all of that really means is we don't know jack and just want to see wins.

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6 hours ago, All Gas, No Gase said:

That applies particularly to his first throw and int. It was a bad play design and he had a free runner coming at him with no one open. Instead of side stepping the pass rush and scrambling for a couple yards, it seems he tried to force the throw to wow the home crowd. 

On the first INT Zach threw the ball where only Davis could get his hands on it.  Davis got his hand on it and knocked it up.  If Davis and Zach where on the same page and Davis knew he was going to throw it there he makes the catch.  The second INT went through Davis's hand.

BB was trying to take Davis out of the game.  Had those two balls been complete the Pats would have had to adjust and it would have made a statement.

The Jets were not winning that game with long drives with multiple 3 and outs.  The Pats simply have a better team, better coaching and lots of experience.  The idea that we can dink and dunk our way to victory when were outmanned and outcoached seems at best highly suspect.  The Jets both Zach and the OC wanted to shake up the Pats.  It failed because the execution failed.  

Playoff teams execute they also make plays into tight windows.  They don't just wait for an opening they create them.  

Every play that fails in hindsight was a dissaster. 

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6 minutes ago, Biggs said:

He can make any throw and having the balls to make any throw is a great trait for an elite NFL QB.  The reality is if the Jets ever get to the next level and are playing in big games with consequences the QB is going to have to make the big throw into a tight window.  You can't just manage the game when you're playing to move to the next round of the playoffs.  You need guys who can make plays.

The reality is he's a rookie.  He's had very few reps with the same personal.  The scheme is  new for the entire O.  The first two INT's might very well be big plays in a big game with a little better timing with Davis and Davis understaniding where Zach is going to put the ball when the coverage is a certain way. 

He's also gotten the crap beat out of him the week before and was under pressure against the Pats.  His footwork wasn't great.  

The NFL is a game of adjustments.  Zach and the staff will look at tape and adjust.  The competition will look at the adjustments and adjust. 

Literally being able to make any throw and having the confidence to make any throw is what elite QB's all have in common.  

This is why you can't overreact too much to one game if you're the coaching staff ... you want that attitude of trying to win, the willingness to take shots, just need to temper it a little bit with some context / situational awareness etc.

If I think back to what they did with Sanchez and the red / amber / green wristbands, the timers during practice ... ugh. Let the guy play, and when he messes up, help him see what happened and help him learn from it. And have a "whole team" mentality that the D will get the ball back / bail you out when they can. Rex & co seemed to go the opposite way and have an "us an them" divide between the O and the D, and the "just don't screw up" mentality.

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3 hours ago, varjet said:

Look at some of Darnold’s games over his first three years.   He had some terrible games.  He is now playing solid football with solid coaching.

I blame Zach 50% and the coaching 50% for the Offense last week.  Coaching being both Lafleur and Saleh on offense and the player selection.  With Knapp gone Saleh will need to spend more time with the offense. They need to run the ball more and throw shorter passes. 

didn't they hire cavanaugh to replace knapp?  but i agree.  they need to make sure wilson knows his first goal is to keep the chains moving and that may mean going for the 5 yd pass to a back or even running at times.  and lafleur really needs to understand what the denese is giving him.  maybe he does and wilson went a little rogue but he's still the coach and needs to tell the qb when to pull it in.

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this isnt college, you cant beat teams on your own. even rodgers runs the sh*t out of the ball and then takes his shots down the field. that, plus in the NFL once things start to go bad it can be like quick sand a bit to a young guy who wants to double down....its ok he will learn.

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