High Profile O-Line Coach Says Van Roten is “Liability”

[BP]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

If they were going to sit him, Denver is the team they should have sat him against.  I don't know what to make of Tennessee's defense, but they should be able to get things done against Atlanta.  

No brakes, remember? All gas ? 

[Saul Goodman]

Why’d we sign Feeney if he can’t beat this stiff out? JD must’ve liked the mullet? 

[Greenseed4]

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

More of a shame that the OL expert didn’t invest in the OK depth of this draft class.

After drafting AVT we had an uninjured Cameron Clarke and Alex Lewis hadn't yet lost his marbles.  There was a three-way battle for that starting RG spot.   GVR won by default. 

[Gastineau Lives]

1 hour ago, thebuzzardman said:

The guy is right but maybe he should focus on doing some training that keeps his extremely large client on the field. 

Yeah, he should have done some of those exercises where you practice skipping out of the way of guys falling on your legs from behind.

[bgivs21]

3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Or maybe it will take some time to get it down right and things will be fine?  Did these guys even play together in camp?  Moses was a late add.  AVT missed almost the whole thing.  Fant had to switch from right to left.  They just added  a few plays in 2009 and Woody said that it took them time to get it down.  Those guys had already put en entire season plus together.  These guys are pretty much learning a full system.   These struggles should not be a surprise.  

Struggles? Yes, I expected them to struggle. But this is beyond struggling, this is outright failure, on all levels of the offense. 

Simplify it and not just for the QB,  for every other position too because this cannot go on.

[Maynard13]

2 hours ago, Sammybighead said:

Every Jets fan on earth says Van Roten is a “Liability”

His name is Van Rotten. Not Van Roten

[Gastineau Lives]

5 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

Why’d we sign Feeney 

He was cheap and useless

[Maynard13]

1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Mcgovern is not far behind Van Roten

Yep. If you look closely at the games, like some can who have insight into the details of the OL and DL, you can clearly see Van Rotten and McGovern are just terrible.  They get no push in the run game between the tackles and their is constant pressure coming up the middle. Its absolutely pathetic. They gonna get Wilson clobbered and seriuosly injured. Its just a matter of time.  

[#27TheDominator]

17 minutes ago, Lith said:

I am not ready to sit him yet.  Give him this week and Atlanta, see what he does.  But if he still looks like Luke Falk trying to run an offense. then maybe some time on the bench might do him some good.  Although, barring injury, I do not expect it to happen.

He will have the bye to prepare for NE.  Then the Bengals and Colts,  I'm not sure what to make of the Bengals yet, but the Colts are exactly what we want to see him against.  I always felt like this was a 4-6 win team.  So far they have looked like sh*t, but it hasn't really changed my opinon.

[#27TheDominator]

15 minutes ago, bgivs21 said:

Struggles? Yes, I expected them to struggle. But this is beyond struggling, this is outright failure, on all levels of the offense. 

Simplify it and not just for the QB,  for every other position too because this cannot go on.

Then don't ******* bother.  Doing that is the coaching equivalent of the 2015 Jets.  Be mediocre so you don't have to be bad.  Trouble is, that also wouldn't work.  They are not a very good team.  They are young and they are installing a new system.  Struggling is failing.  Did you expect them to struggle to 3-0?  I've got news for you.  It's going to get worse (Tennessee) before it gets better (Atlanta).  

They hired this coach. If you ever believed in him, you let him stick to what he wants to do.  If you don't believe in him, they shouldn't have hired him.  If that's how you feel, cool.  Have at it.  Your posts and mine won't add up to anything, but a wholesale simplification week 4 of what was a learning season is not going to make them a better team in the long run.  That is all I ******* care about

[joewilly12]

27 minutes ago, BP said:

Maybe if we attached a turkey leg to Henry’s buttocks @The Crusher can jump onto the field and chase him down. We gotta pull out all the stops next week.

Scouting report on the @The Crusher  is too old and too slow. 

[#27TheDominator]

25 minutes ago, BP said:

No brakes, remember? All gas ? 

I knew that stupid motto was going to bite them in the ass.  I will say, that I think they have been coaching to it.  They go for it on 4th.  They don't surrender even when the game is over they keep scratching and clawing for TDs rather than getting the 0 off the board.  Still, it's going to be an embarrassment until they get good.  Which might mean it always will be an embarrassment.

[Beerfish]

22 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

After drafting AVT we had an uninjured Cameron Clarke and Alex Lewis hadn't yet lost his marbles.  There was a three-way battle for that starting RG spot.   GVR won by default. 

Clarke was never a good prospect.  Even before he got hurt the most glowing report we got  essentially was he is not as terrible as in his rookie year.  Lewis was a house of cards considering his past.

Relying on either of these guys was foolish at the time and proven to be foolish now.

[Charlie Brown]

53 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Really a shame Douglas did not double dip in last years draft which was deep in oline. instead of taking all system dbs and small lbs in the later rounds.

Initially I would have been skeptical but with the departure of QB Morgan from off the Jets in hindsight some of JDs picks are truly bad...... 

[bgivs21]

7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Then don't ******* bother.  Doing that is the coaching equivalent of the 2015 Jets.  Be mediocre so you don't have to be bad.  Trouble is, that also wouldn't work.  They are not a very good team.  They are young and they are installing a new system.  Struggling is failing.  Did you expect them to struggle to 3-0?  I've got news for you.  It's going to get worse (Tennessee) before it gets better (Atlanta).  

They hired this coach. If you ever believed in him, you let him stick to what he wants to do.  If you don't believe in him, they shouldn't have hired him.  If that's how you feel, cool.  Have at it.  Your posts and mine won't add up to anything, but a wholesale simplification week 4 of what was a learning season is not going to make them a better team in the long run.  That is all I ******* care about

Jesus you have a warped view on this. Whoever posted the new thread summed it up perfectly- too much new all at once. 

You can't sit here and tell me the coaches didn't see any of this in preseason. They needed to slowly install this offense throughout the season, instead they threw everything out there in a preseason where theres less time to absob this stuff now more than ever and now we have players over thinking everything. And this resutls in WRs unable to get open/execute routes, OL unable to communicate properly and execute their blocks, a rookie QB unable to properly see the field because of that pressure, RBs/TE that dont know assignments. Oh yeah and no one that can catch the ******* ball.  

But yeah, struggles, it's expected. 

[defensedoesntgetyoulaid]

To be fair the clue was in his name

[The Crusher]

55 minutes ago, BP said:

Maybe if we attached a turkey leg to Henry’s buttocks @The Crusher can jump onto the field and chase him down. We gotta pull out all the stops next week.

Not much of a chaser down but my ability to eat space up is still fully intact. 

[TheClashFan]

49 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

After drafting AVT we had an uninjured Cameron Clarke and Alex Lewis hadn't yet lost his marbles.  There was a three-way battle for that starting RG spot.   GVR won by default. 

Actually, Lewis had to be given time off last season for his unspecified problem, so counting on him this year was foolish.  Clarke did literally nothing in his first year...wasn't even called on to play late in a lost season.  Not a good sign.

The mullet guy Feeney is the true Plan B for RG. Ugh.

[The Crusher]

28 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Scouting report on the @The Crusher  is too old and too slow. 

"Is he cheap?, Perfect!"

                                      J. Douglas

[#27TheDominator]

20 minutes ago, bgivs21 said:

Jesus you have a warped view on this. Whoever posted the new thread summed it up perfectly- too much new all at once. 

You can't sit here and tell me the coaches didn't see any of this in preseason. They needed to slowly install this offense throughout the season, instead they threw everything out there in a preseason where theres less time to absob this stuff now more than ever and now we have players over thinking everything. And this resutls in WRs unable to get open/execute routes, OL unable to communicate properly and execute their blocks, a rookie QB unable to properly see the field because of that pressure, RBs/TE that dont know assignments. Oh yeah and no one that can catch the ******* ball.  

But yeah, struggles, it's expected. 

Warped?  I'm warped because I don't want to throw everything out based on losing three games most people knew we were going to lose?  If they schedule were different and they played Carolina this week and Denver week 1, everybody would be happy.  

There is no too much new.  It is ALL new.  None of these guys has played for these coaches.  You are asking them to draw up some simplified sh*t for what?  Go back and run some  Gase plays because they are not new?  There is no baseline because these guys did not play together in the preseason.  

I saw plenty of balls bounce off guy's hands.  That's not on the OC.  Denzel Mims had a 52% catch rate last year.  Let's stop acting like changing the offense around to toss it up to the guy that doesn't know the scheme is the solution.  Crowder is the one that will help.

[joewilly12]

14 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

"Is he cheap?, Perfect!"

                                      J. Douglas

Can be had for a 6th round pick and can play the hybrid LB/CB/S position and possibly K. 

[bgivs21]

9 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Warped?  I'm warped because I don't want to throw everything out based on losing three games most people knew we were going to lose?  If they schedule were different and they played Carolina this week and Denver week 1, everybody would be happy.  

There is no too much new.  It is ALL new.  None of these guys has played for these coaches.  You are asking them to draw up some simplified sh*t for what?  Go back and run some  Gase plays because they are not new?  There is no baseline because these guys did not play together in the preseason.  

I saw plenty of balls bounce off guy's hands.  That's not on the OC.  Denzel Mims had a 52% catch rate last year.  Let's stop acting like changing the offense around to toss it up to the guy that doesn't know the scheme is the solution.  Crowder is the one that will help.

Where did I say I want to throw everything out!?

Like I said in my post you quoted, too much new at once. They need to simplify it which doesn't mean throw it out, it means peel the playbook back a bit and let guys focus on perfecting certain plays and formations. 

IMO the Mims situation is a microcosm for what this CS is doing. They expect Mims to know every route of every position before he goes on the field, which is asinine. But they throw guys out there at different positions who clearly don't fully know the playbook because theres no depth. Peel it back, make it easier for your players and get your best players on the field. 

[Larz]

[David Harris]

2 hours ago, Barkus said:

He had a significant spinal cord injury, I would not be surprised if his career is over.

Link?  I don’t think he ended up having a significant spinal cord injury 

[joewilly12]

Trainer for Mekhi Becton & other linemen rips Greg Van Roten: '62 is a liability'

[Spoot-Face]

16 minutes ago, Larz said:

^^

Me as a child pretending to be asleep when I did something wrong and don't want to face the consequences of my actions. 

[Barkus]

24 minutes ago, David Harris said:

Link?  I don’t think he ended up having a significant spinal cord injury 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31950790/new-york-jets-og-cameron-clark-taken-hospital-neck-injury%3fplatform=amp
 

He had a spinal cord contusion. Expected to recover fully but could decide to retire after an injury like that. Of course, that is only conjecture on my part.

[Bronx]

3 hours ago, Alka said:

Alex Lewis

That hurt the line, headcase or not.

[#27TheDominator]

56 minutes ago, bgivs21 said:

Where did I say I want to throw everything out!?

Like I said in my post you quoted, too much new at once. They need to simplify it which doesn't mean throw it out, it means peel the playbook back a bit and let guys focus on perfecting certain plays and formations. 

IMO the Mims situation is a microcosm for what this CS is doing. They expect Mims to know every route of every position before he goes on the field, which is asinine. But they throw guys out there at different positions who clearly don't fully know the playbook because theres no depth. Peel it back, make it easier for your players and get your best players on the field. 

I repeat that what you are saying is off.

There is nothing but new.  There is no old.  Old is either Gase or SF.  How the **** are they supposed to run "not new?"  

You want to simplify things by running less plays?  I get that, but I think that is already happening.  That doesn't mean that Mims knows all the routes for even those limited plays.  The other players also obviously don't know the plays?  Cool.  What does that tell you about how little Mims might know of the playbook?  I agree limiting things to what these guys know well and letting Mims on the field when he knows a few things well makes sense.  I don't agree that these guys are just willy nilly running the most complex plays and somehow keeping Mims on the bench when he is Calvin Johnson Jr.  Maybe Mims is good, maybe he sucks.  There were more reasons to think Stephen Hill would be an all pro at this stage of his career than Mims.

People act like Mims is going to succeed running go routes.  Mims had a 52% catch rate running everything in an offense he supposedly knew and that appeared to be trying to get him involved.  People expect him to do better just running go routes.  It's silly.  Maybe Mims is a microcosm of people blaming coaches for players failing.

I didn't see an offense that needed a deep threat.  I saw a QB forcing the ball to Davis way too often and I saw a bunch of guys dropping the ball.  They left plenty of plays on the field.  Was that because of complexity?  Maybe, but I doubt it.

[bgivs21]

6 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I repeat that what you are saying is off.

There is nothing but new.  There is no old.  Old is either Gase or SF.  How the **** are they supposed to run "not new?"  

You want to simplify things by running less plays?  I get that, but I think that is already happening.  That doesn't mean that Mims knows all the routes for even those limited plays.  The other players also obviously don't know the plays?  Cool.  What does that tell you about how little Mims might know of the playbook?  I agree limiting things to what these guys know well and letting Mims on the field when he knows a few things well makes sense.  I don't agree that these guys are just willy nilly running the most complex plays and somehow keeping Mims on the bench when he is Calvin Johnson Jr.  Maybe Mims is good, maybe he sucks.  There were more reasons to think Stephen Hill would be an all pro at this stage of his career than Mims.

People act like Mims is going to succeed running go routes.  Mims had a 52% catch rate running everything in an offense he supposedly knew and that appeared to be trying to get him involved.  People expect him to do better just running go routes.  It's silly.  Maybe Mims is a microcosm of people blaming coaches for players failing.

I didn't see an offense that needed a deep threat.  I saw a QB forcing the ball to Davis way too often and I saw a bunch of guys dropping the ball.  They left plenty of plays on the field.  Was that because of complexity?  Maybe, but I doubt it.

You're getting hung up on Mims the player. I'm using him as an example of what I think is going on with the CS and how they expect players to know every aspect of the offense already and how that it is clear they don't which is why we're getting sh*t play from everyone on the offensive side.

Do I think Mims is the answer? No, but I do think he should be on the field contributing. Focus on perfecting some of the playbook before you throw more things in. It's clear the offense wasn't properly installed in pre-season. 

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, bgivs21 said:

You're getting hung up on Mims the player. I'm using him as an example of what I think is going on with the CS and how they expect players to know every aspect of the offense already and how that it is clear they don't which is why we're getting sh*t play from everyone on the offensive side.

Do I think Mims is the answer? No, but I do think he should be on the field contributing. Focus on perfecting some of the playbook before you throw more things in. It's clear the offense wasn't properly installed in pre-season. 

Fair enough.

You may be right.  You may be wrong.  I am hung up on Mims the player because I keep reading things like your second paragraph.  You may be correct, but it is just as likely that Mims is a dope, running the wrong routes in practice, or there is something else going on that nobody knows about.  He is a physically impressive guy, but it is not like they rolling 33 year old Chris Hogan out there ahead of him. 

I am not surprised that this team got rolled by Denver.  I expected it.  I expect more of the same against the Titans.  Maybe a little better because we are home.  I think we will make some noise against Atlanta.

[Integrity28]

5 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

After drafting AVT we had an uninjured Cameron Clarke and Alex Lewis hadn't yet lost his marbles.  There was a three-way battle for that starting RG spot.   GVR won by default. 

Lewis was marginally better than GVR. Clarke is a project. This draft had starting guards spread out across all 3 days. You have a team deplete of talent, and a guy who fit the job based on OL creds.

He should not need to give up picks to find guards that can play. 

[thebuzzardman]

"Is this the story of Greg Van Rotten?" (Neil Young voice)

[JustInFudge]

Ryan Kalil available?

[UntouchableCrew]

6 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Really a shame Douglas did not double dip in last years draft which was deep in oline. instead of taking all system dbs and small lbs in the later rounds.

Should have taken Trey Smith.