The Way Forward

[Big_Slick]

21 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I think there is a consensus here that Cam or whatever vet we can sign should be given a contract and Zack should sit and learn. I just see no point  in firing JD now, even with as bad as he seems

Jets have to see if ZW is going to be their FQB before next season. They can't do that if he's on the bench. Let ZW take his lumps like most other *high* draft pick rookie QB's and maybe he can show enough the last 4 games to make the decision to keep him easy.

[JTJet]

25 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

We'll certainly have to disagree on the point of sit vs. learn.  This team isn't going to all of a sudden get better, ZW is going to continue to get killed.  I can see the other side of that argument though, believe it's okay for him to take his lumps and he'll come out the better for it.   I don't agree, but it's a valid argument that we've been having around here forever.  I think the Sam situation is tough to tell what would have been better for him.  He now seems like a very good game manager with competent players around him.  Could he have been more if he sat for a year? or did playing help him get to the point he is?

But come on...WR and QB play two very different position.  I know you know that - and comparing the two situations is silly.  And I know you know that too.

I'm not denying they are very different positions, but the argument is the same. 

Zach Wilson will learn literally nothing from watching a garbage vet picked up midway into the season lead a garbage team. What's he going to learn from that? At all? Nothing. 

At least IN the game, he can get a better feel for the speed, read defenses, etc etc. He cant do that sitting on the bench. 

Gotta scramble some eggs to make an omelette my man.

Having Zach benched the rest of the season for an off the scrap heap vet is making that omelette with Eggbeaters, not adding any ingredients, not seasoning it, and then just letting it sit on the table. 

[steJMike]

12 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

Jets have to see if ZW is going to be their FQB before next season. They can't do that if he's on the bench. Let ZW take his lumps like most other *high* draft pick rookie QB's and maybe he can show enough the last 4 games to make the decision to keep him easy.

They also can't evaluate him when he has no time to throw the ball and if his WRs keep dropping passes. They are going to ruin this poor kid

[steJMike]

3 minutes ago, JTJet said:

I'm not denying they are very different positions, but the argument is the same. 

Zach Wilson will learn literally nothing from watching a garbage vet picked up midway into the season lead a garbage team. What's he going to learn from that? At all? Nothing. 

At least IN the game, he can get a better feel for the speed, read defenses, etc etc. He cant do that sitting on the bench. 

Gotta scramble some eggs to make an omelette my man.

Having Zach benched the rest of the season for an off the scrap heap vet is making that omelette with Eggbeaters, not adding any ingredients, not seasoning it, and then just letting it sit on the table. 

At least his confidence won't be shattered he is regressing right now.  It doesn't seem like things are going to get better. The Jets offence is awful and getting worse.

[steJMike]

1 hour ago, Charlie Brown said:

Zach wilson is a ROOKIE  going into his FOURTH GAME on the YOUNGEST TEAM in the entire NFL, which won TWO GAMES last YEAR!
 

How can any of us be surprised that he doesn't look like Montana to Rice just yet!!

Please let's give Wilson at least ONE FULL season before we collectively abandon him.......

I think he is going to be a solid QB but also agree he needs to sit before he gets ruined playing for this awful team and O coordinator.

[Jetscode1]

I propose we trade owners.  Just a hunch.

[Charlie Brown]

12 minutes ago, steJMike said:

I think he is going to be a solid QB but also agree he needs to sit before he gets ruined playing for this awful team and O coordinator.

When I said the same thing about Darnold, folks said that an organization can't ruin a "good" player.

So I definitely understand your view and why I have argued that absent you having a KC situation (and even there Mahomes sat), having a a young rookie QB develop in house is a good thing

[JTJet]

18 minutes ago, steJMike said:

At least his confidence won't be shattered he is regressing right now.  It doesn't seem like things are going to get better. The Jets offence is awful and getting worse.

At least on the field he can DO something about his confidence. He can work on it. 

You cant do that riding the pine. 

[doitny]

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

This isn't about blame here.  Just how to manage this team going forward.  My point is, I wouldn't trust JD to manage such an important off-season. 

Hymie Elthai ? i had to google him.

so this is the guy you think should run this important draft? 

As Johnson mentioned, Elhai has been involved in many different aspects of the team's operations. But it was the hiring process that led to Adam Gase taking over for Todd Bowles that solidified Johnson's trust in him to take over this role. 

"I am honored to be given this opportunity and thankful to The Johnson Family for entrusting me with the responsibility and all that comes along with it," Elhai said. "I have a deep appreciation and respect for this franchise, what it means to our fans, the communities we serve, as well as our business partners."

A 20-year veteran in the Jets' organization, Elhai was working with the "legal aspects" of the team. He had worked his way up from his intern days with the team years ago. 

 

he help hire Adam Gase. that should tell you enough of his eye for talent. sounds like a lawyer. 

i think its too soon to say that JD cant draft players. were only going to give the 21 class 3 games? 

 

[JTJet]

6 minutes ago, doitny said:

i think its too soon to say that JD cant draft players. were only going to give the 21 class 3 games? 

Too soon? 

Are you just ignoring the abomination that is the 2020 class? 

[doitny]

1 hour ago, JTJet said:

 

Zach Wilson will learn literally nothing from watching a garbage vet picked up midway into the season lead a garbage team. What's he going to learn from that? At all? Nothing. 

At least IN the game, he can get a better feel for the speed, read defenses, etc etc. He cant do that sitting on the bench. 

 

your right.

just look how bad Justin Fields was yesterday. that was his 1st ever start. now if he played in week 1 he would have got that out of the way already.

 

 

[doitny]

6 minutes ago, JTJet said:

Too soon? 

Are you just ignoring the abomination that is the 2020 class? 

so that its then. 2020 was bad so 2021 doesnt count? hell why didnt you fire him before this season then

[Jet_Engine1]

4 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

This thread is not meant to point fingers at or cast blame on anyone, it's not for "I told you so's"- there are plenty threads for that...We are where we are now

Let's look at the best way forward...

With the #1 overall pick likely, 5 picks in the top 63 and a massive amount of available cap space it's possible the right GM can turn this around.

Here are my thoughts...

• You MUST put ZW on the shelf for the rest of the season.
• Sign the best veteran QB you can find.  Someone that understands the situation the Jets are in and willing to take the lumps.  If that's Cam Newton than go get him.
• Joe Douglas should be let go immediately and unfortunatley Hymie Elthai can take the reigns in the short term.  The new GM search starts now.
• Chris Johnson needs to be placed as far away from this team as possible (say what you want about Woody but the team was never this bad under his control)
• Trade the #1 overall pick for the best deal on the table.  This team needs so much that you'll have to pass on an elite level prospect if one's there.
• Draft should focus on OL.  You can't do anything until you have an OL.  Once you feel like you have something there, then move on to other positions.
• FA's, you have to go and spend, again on OL and bringing in over priced vets (hate to do it) but the team has to get to respectability. We're just so far away from even being competitive that you have to hold your nose to pay big for simply competent level talent
• Let the new GM decide what to do with Saleh and the rest of the CS
• ZW decision is a tough one.  Two options...
  • Shelve him this year and possibly more - let him practice and learn.  Regardless of how he looks in practice he should not start playing until you have a line that can protect him and receivers that can catch.  In fact I wouldn't even dress him on game days.  He shouldn't even go in due to injury with this roster.
  • Trade him while you can still get a #1 for him (likely high 1) and run with vets until you've built a competent team and THEN and only THEN go out and draft one.

What do you guys think?

 

 

 

 

They hired Adam Gase instead of McCarthy. They'll never recover.  Ever.

 

So we got that going for us.

? 

[Sammybighead]

Seriously? What do we think?

You just posted a dozen stupid things which have zero chance of actually occurring. 

[Bronx]

4 hours ago, JiFapono said:

You cant bench Zach.  You cant trade him.  And nobody is losing their job, it's week 3.  You have to stick to the plan and let all these rookies work through the adversity and hope it's good for them long term.  Everyone knew this was going to be ugly, take it on the chin and dont hit the panic button 

All you can do is hope they get better as the season goes on and hope this next offseason with all that money and all those picks, they really move the needle talent wise and I think Robert Saleh needs to really look hard at his staff and assess if he truly has the best possible coaches he can find to help develop Zach Wilson.  

Not with this incompetent OC.

[mfmartin]

Thank you. 
I can understand the opinion of not firing him.  I just can't imagine allowing him to handle such an important off-season coming up.  And if you're going to get rid of him then, might as well be now and begin the recruitment process.

They extended his contract to match Salehs. He isn’t going anywhere and he is running the offseason.


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[The Crusher]

4 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

This thread is not meant to point fingers at or cast blame on anyone, it's not for "I told you so's"- there are plenty threads for that...We are where we are now

Let's look at the best way forward...

With the #1 overall pick likely, 5 picks in the top 63 and a massive amount of available cap space it's possible the right GM can turn this around.

Here are my thoughts...

• You MUST put ZW on the shelf for the rest of the season.
• Sign the best veteran QB you can find.  Someone that understands the situation the Jets are in and willing to take the lumps.  If that's Cam Newton than go get him.
• Joe Douglas should be let go immediately and unfortunatley Hymie Elthai can take the reigns in the short term.  The new GM search starts now.
• Chris Johnson needs to be placed as far away from this team as possible (say what you want about Woody but the team was never this bad under his control)
• Trade the #1 overall pick for the best deal on the table.  This team needs so much that you'll have to pass on an elite level prospect if one's there.
• Draft should focus on OL.  You can't do anything until you have an OL.  Once you feel like you have something there, then move on to other positions.
• FA's, you have to go and spend, again on OL and bringing in over priced vets (hate to do it) but the team has to get to respectability. We're just so far away from even being competitive that you have to hold your nose to pay big for simply competent level talent
• Let the new GM decide what to do with Saleh and the rest of the CS
• ZW decision is a tough one.  Two options...
  • Shelve him this year and possibly more - let him practice and learn.  Regardless of how he looks in practice he should not start playing until you have a line that can protect him and receivers that can catch.  In fact I wouldn't even dress him on game days.  He shouldn't even go in due to injury with this roster.
  • Trade him while you can still get a #1 for him (likely high 1) and run with vets until you've built a competent team and THEN and only THEN go out and draft one.

What do you guys think?

 

 

 

 

Damn!! These bastard have turned Fido to the dark side! 

[JTJet]

19 minutes ago, doitny said:

so that its then. 2020 was bad so 2021 doesnt count? hell why didnt you fire him before this season then

2020 was bad and SO FAR, 3 games in, 2021 was bad as well. 

These are verified facts. 

Mix that with his abysmal FA record, and yes, we can seriously question his eye for talent. 

You do know he is almost halfway through his contract right??

[doitny]

3 minutes ago, JTJet said:

2020 was bad and SO FAR, 3 games in, 2021 was bad as well. 

These are verified facts. 

Mix that with his abysmal FA record, and yes, we can seriously question his eye for talent. 

You do know he is almost halfway through his contract right??

not till june of 2022

and SO FAR is the key. 14 games to go. thats alot for these kids to show us something.

[RSJ]

They extended his contract to match Salehs. He isn’t going anywhere and he is running the offseason.


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I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Moving Douglas tp another position in the front office is probably what will happen if it continues to look this bad. They did the same thing with Bradway.

The thing is the Johnsons are very predictable. They revolve their decisions around what they can get away with in order to build enough excitement to get some fans in the seats. They have been doing this most recently by selling the fans on this phony idea that this is the NBA and the QB is the equivalent of the 7’2” center or the 6’6” shooting guard. Its not the same thing but fans have bought into it. That idea wont be bought again by most.

The coach is too new to fire and the Johnsons wont want to buy out his contract because it will hurt their bottom line.

The Jets will bring in a new GM, hide Douglas in the background, and force some kind of washed up coach onto Salehs staff. Its change - but its not the kind of wholesale change by bringing in a proven commodity that this franchise truly needs in order to fix things.


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[JTJet]

8 minutes ago, doitny said:

not till june of 2022

and SO FAR is the key. 14 games to go. thats alot for these kids to show us something.

I literally said he is almost halfway through his contract, so yes June, and the product he has provided thus far, is unacceptable. 

I am positive JD himself would even tell you that while you continue to defend him. 

[Albaniajet]

20 minutes ago, doitny said:

not till june of 2022

and SO FAR is the key. 14 games to go. thats alot for these kids to show us something.

So far Zach has shown you an undersized qb who stares down his first read

 

he blows

[mfmartin]

I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Moving Douglas tp another position in the front office is probably what will happen if it continues to look this bad. They did the same thing with Bradway.

The thing is the Johnsons are very predictable. They revolve their decisions around what they can get away with in order to build enough excitement to get some fans in the seats. They have been doing this most recently by selling the fans on this phony idea that this is the NBA and the QB is the equivalent of the 7’2” center or the 6’6” shooting guard. Its not the same thing but fans have bought into it. That idea wont be bought again by most.

The coach is too new to fire and the Johnsons wont want to buy out his contract because it will hurt their bottom line.

The Jets will bring in a new GM, hide Douglas in the background, and force some kind of washed up coach onto Salehs staff. Its change - but its not the kind of wholesale change by bringing in a proven commodity that this franchise truly needs in order to fix things.


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Literally zero percent chance this happens. They are not removing the GM after two full seasons when Macc was here previously. They kept Gase all season as to see that they weren’t too trigger happy. They are not going the arranged marriage route. If Douglas goes, so does Saleh and Zach. They are all tied together. No wishful thinking in your mind will change that. They are here through 2023.


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[RSJ]

Literally zero percent chance this happens. They are not removing the GM after two full seasons when Macc was here previously. They kept Gase all season as to see that they weren’t too trigger happy. They are not going the arranged marriage route. If Douglas goes, so does Saleh and Zach. They are all tied together. No wishful thinking in your mind will change that. They are here through 2023.


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You cant put the same product out there two years in a row and expect season ticket renewals to hold steady. Its not what I would do. Its what the Johnsons will do though. I wouldnt have hired any of these clowns or drafted Wilson. So its not wishful thinking - but its exactly what will happen. Bookmark it.


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[doitny]

6 minutes ago, RSJ said:

 

You cant put the same product out there two years in a row and expect season ticket renewals to hold steady. Its not what I would do. Its what the Johnsons will do though. I wouldnt have hired any of these clowns or drafted Wilson. So its not wishful thinking - but its exactly what will happen. Bookmark it.


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no it wont happen. 

what will happen is they will make a scapegoat of LaFluer and fire him. thats what they always do first . and give the fanbase a scalp. might not be the one you really want but im sure hes on the list.

 Rex went thru a OC a year it seamed at times. Williams got fire after that horrible Raiders game.

 

 

 

[Beerfish]

[RSJ]

no it wont happen. 
what will happen is they will make a scapegoat of LaFluer and fire him. thats what they always do first . and give the fanbase a scalp. might not be the one you really want but im sure hes on the list.
 Rex went thru a OC a year it seamed at times. Williams got fire after that horrible Raiders game.
 
 
 

Rex went to two championship games. He isnt some loser with a college slogan who has had a losing season 4 of the past 5 seasons in the NFL.


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[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

After we finish the season 0-17 or 1-16 jd and everyone should be fired on the spot. New gm should draft a qb or trade for Watson. 

The product on the field is worse than I've ever seen. I don't care about losses. I predicted a 4 win season. But to not even be remotely competitive is highly discouraging. To average 6 points a game on offense in 2021 is laughable 

[doitny]

23 minutes ago, JTJet said:

I literally said he is almost halfway through his contract, so yes June, and the product he has provided thus far, is unacceptable. 

I am positive JD himself would even tell you that while you continue to defend him. 

ok cause ALMOST to me is close like 2-3 months away not 9 months. your birthday is 9 months away do you tell people its almost here? but whatever.

your right the product right now is bad. but he isnt getting fired tommorrow. so im going to defend him until i see a full season from 2021 class.

the difference between 2020 and 2021 is that 2020 didnt play. Mims Davis and Perine missed half of the year. Clark, Zunga and Morgan were busts and never played.

but everyone is playing in 2021. so were going to know for sure by December how this class is. 

 

[doitny]

7 minutes ago, RSJ said:

 

Rex went to two championship games. He isnt some loser with a college slogan who has had a losing season 4 of the past 5 seasons in the NFL.


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i love Rex. no argument there. but don't say that too loud. many Rex hate here. then again they hate everyone.

but it is similar situations right?

Rex was a DC . Saleh was a DC.

the offense hasn't been good for both. so where is the problem? the OC will take the blame. 

so they fire LaFluer and hope a new OC gets this offense running. not now, end of the year. and if that doesn't work both Saleh and JD are gone after 2022.

 

[RSJ]

i love Rex. no argument there. but don't say that too loud. many Rex hate here. then again they hate everyone.
but it is similar situations right?
Rex was a DC . Saleh was a DC.
the offense hasn't been good for both. so where is the problem? the OC will take the blame. 
so they fire LaFluer and hope a new OC gets this offense running. not now, end of the year. and if that doesn't work both Saleh and JD are gone after 2022.
 

I agree about the Rex hate.

I think the similarities stop there. Saleh had losing seasons three of his four years in SF. Rex has a ring or two from being on winning staffs.

Also a major difference. Although it was dumb Rex at least interfered with the offense when Sanchez struggled. Saleh appears useless in that regard.

But I hear what you are saying and I think they will be gone too. Lets see how Johnson likes the “sell the team” chant at metlife this Sunday if it gets ugly.


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[mfmartin]

You cant put the same product out there two years in a row and expect season ticket renewals to hold steady. Its not what I would do. Its what the Johnsons will do though. I wouldnt have hired any of these clowns or drafted Wilson. So its not wishful thinking - but its exactly what will happen. Bookmark it.


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Ok. But seriously they are here for a few years


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[munchmemory]

Our only path forward.  Again:

 

 

[Gen X Jet]

The Johnsons need to have their Leon Hess moment and come to grips with the fact that their parade of loser GMs and Coaches isn't working and never will.  Until Hess brought in Parcells and let him shop for the groceries, the Jets were in a similar pattern.  Here's what I propose- do what ever it takes, by hook or by crook, to bring in a coach with an established track record (Belicheck, Tomlin, Reed) and give him the keys to everything.  In Belicheck's case, get the Kraft rub and tug videos and threaten to release them, give him partial ownership, I don't care. 

The clown car of incompetence must stop.  We're all getting too old for this, our families are questioning our cognitive skills and we're well beyond the lovable losers at this point. 

[varjet]

I am not convinced that the Johnsons and Hymie are completely uninvolved in the football decisions.   That probably influenced trading Darnold.   It was easy to fire Mac and Gase because we knew that no one would hire them.  Bowles got fired as HC, and we all knew he would get re-hired as DC.   I am not sure he gets rehired as HC-maybe soon.   I do think that both Saleh and Douglas would get re-hired if fired.

But the Jets have to stabilize the offense, preserve Wilson, establish some credibility with the players and save cap space for next year when it matters.  So I would:

• Discuss with JD his personel/scouting plan and vision for next year re OL.   Personally, I think the scouting looks largely fixed, but he blew it on the OL.  I think this is a case where the ownership of the team tells JD to do whatever it takes to improve the OL for 2022.  It should not have to be that way.
• The Jets should be looking for PS OL from other teams, and even be 1-2 notches aggressive in terms of obtaining OL by trade.  Try mixing up other players-Edoga, etc., to get improve play.
• I believe that JD and the Jets have a well-deserved reputation of being a bit "difficult" with players.  This is a business, but they should do right by their players.  To me, that is:
  • Extending Maye on reasonable terms, which has to be at at the end of the season.  Franchise him again if he can't be resigned.
  • Extending Moses now.  This way we can use the franchise on Maye.
  • Trading Crowder to a competitive team that wants to keep him longer term.  I don't think he wants to be on this team.  Save the cap space.
• You can't manage for tragedy.  I am sure that the plan was that Knapp would be the brains but LaFleur would do the dirty work.  The Jets should be enhancing their offensive coaching staff.  The table is set for this season, but perhaps Cavanaugh is given more responsibility if this show does not improve.
• Like with Darnold, perhaps Wilson should pick up a minor injury to sideline him while someone else takes the abuse here.  He can come back at the end of the year if the team stabilizes.
• Be aggressive in FA to pick up the players needed to make this team instantly competiive in 2022.