The Way Forward

[Maynard13]

On 9/27/2021 at 4:43 PM, FidelioJet said:

This thread is not meant to point fingers at or cast blame on anyone, it's not for "I told you so's"- there are plenty threads for that...We are where we are now

Let's look at the best way forward...

With the #1 overall pick likely, 5 picks in the top 63 and a massive amount of available cap space it's possible the right GM can turn this around.

Here are my thoughts...

• You MUST put ZW on the shelf for the rest of the season.
• Sign the best veteran QB you can find.  Someone that understands the situation the Jets are in and willing to take the lumps.  If that's Cam Newton than go get him.
• Joe Douglas should be let go immediately and unfortunatley Hymie Elthai can take the reigns in the short term.  The new GM search starts now.
• Chris Johnson needs to be placed as far away from this team as possible (say what you want about Woody but the team was never this bad under his control)
• Trade the #1 overall pick for the best deal on the table.  This team needs so much that you'll have to pass on an elite level prospect if one's there.
• Draft should focus on OL.  You can't do anything until you have an OL.  Once you feel like you have something there, then move on to other positions.
• FA's, you have to go and spend, again on OL and bringing in over priced vets (hate to do it) but the team has to get to respectability. We're just so far away from even being competitive that you have to hold your nose to pay big for simply competent level talent
• Let the new GM decide what to do with Saleh and the rest of the CS
• ZW decision is a tough one.  Two options...
  • Shelve him this year and possibly more - let him practice and learn.  Regardless of how he looks in practice he should not start playing until you have a line that can protect him and receivers that can catch.  In fact I wouldn't even dress him on game days.  He shouldn't even go in due to injury with this roster.
  • Trade him while you can still get a #1 for him (likely high 1) and run with vets until you've built a competent team and THEN and only THEN go out and draft one.

What do you guys think?

 

 

 

 

Some sound points BUT in no way is JD going ANYWHERE so lets just stop that nonsense. It aint happening this year, even if they go 0-17. It aint happeninng next year,  Its just not.  So lets at least be realistic here. As far as Wilson is concerened, yea I agree with you that he should sit for the rest of the year for MULTIPLE reasons. Trade him? Thats as absurd as JD going anywhere this year or next.  And it appears getting a vet in here is a fairy tale - not happening. They will ride with Wilson which is what J Johnson did with Aikman in his frst miserable year.  Live and learn.  At this point, might as well.  As far as the draft goes, I'd listen but wouldnt go to far back.  Would want to grab either one of these with our 1st #1:  Thibodeaux, DE, Oregon or Evan Neal, OT, Alabama or Derek Stingley Jr., CB, LSU in that order.  Or does JD have the balls to trade back twice? Intriuging.  We could accumulate a haul in that first round.  many teams desperate for QB's.  Would be amazing if we could get a couple more 1st's and extras by tradeing back twice in addition to Linderbaum, C, Iowa and Jalen Wydermyer, TE, Texas A&M. JD gave up an additional 3 picks on AVT. That's not a good startegy going foward.  As you pointed out, we need a lot of help EVERYWHERE.  

[Maynard13]

On 9/27/2021 at 5:11 PM, FidelioJet said:

First, I don't think anything I wrote would happen.  JD isn't going anywhere, but he shouldn't be the one running things in this all too important off-season..  

I think you're right on what will happen with Zach - a groin injury seems about right.  Seems to be thee goto with Crowder.

As for his his parents, I think they were already concerned with him going to the Jets in the first place and their biggest fears are being realized.   They are only going to be quiet for so long.  

This is the type of thing the NFL really doesn't want and might get involved to make sure a deal happens sooner than later.  But ZW isn't going anywhere this season.

**** his parents if thats what they would try to pull.  He is an adult. Let him make his own damn decisions. I dont see the kid as a quitter.  Deal with the adversity.  It only makes you stronger.  His mother said he was a savage. Ok PROVE IT.

[Maynard13]

On 9/27/2021 at 4:53 PM, JiFapono said:

You cant bench Zach.  You cant trade him.  And nobody is losing their job, it's week 3.  You have to stick to the plan and let all these rookies work through the adversity and hope it's good for them long term.  Everyone knew this was going to be ugly, take it on the chin and dont hit the panic button 

All you can do is hope they get better as the season goes on and hope this next offseason with all that money and all those picks, they really move the needle talent wise and I think Robert Saleh needs to really look hard at his staff and assess if he truly has the best possible coaches he can find to help develop Zach Wilson.  

An adult in the room. Well said Jiffy Pop.

[Maynard13]

On 9/27/2021 at 5:02 PM, T0mShane said:

I don’t think they’ll do any of that, but I think what is likely to happen at some point is that Wilson twists an ankle and they give him a month on IR—like they used to do with Darnold—and they’ll bring Nick Foles in at some point to try and steal a couple of wins. 
 

The elephant in the room is that Zack has some very loud helicopter parents who are eventually going to make some noise if and when their darling baby boy keeps getting bounced off the turf and booed by the home crowd. If the Jets end up with the first overall pick, I don’t think it’s crazy to suggest that Wilson’s people will push for a trade, and that Douglas will consider it. The 2022 QB class looks gross right now. Would the Texans offer the Jets the third or fourth overall for Zack Wilson? The Steelers, Falcons, Giants, Panthers, and possibly the Seahawks will all need a QB, and (if things keep going south), Team Wilson would be smart to exfiltrate Zack out of Florham Park as soon as humanly possible.

 

[Maynard13]

On 9/27/2021 at 5:15 PM, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Joe Douglas will be here until at LEAST the end of the 2022 season, and likely the 2023 season. 

DUH someone gets it. 

[Maynard13]

On 9/27/2021 at 5:32 PM, ScarletKnight89 said:

The idea that ZW is going to be benched for the rest of the season is crazy lol. They aren't doing that. 

I agree that the team was so much better when Woody was in charge. He's not a great owner, but Chris Johnson has been terrible. He should be kept as far away as possible. The crazy thing is there are beat writers telling us that Chris is doing the right thing and the organization was lost under Woody. What a joke.

If they get the number 1 overall pick they should either trade it to a team that is looking to take a QB or take the best non QB there. Maybe this next draft will be one where there is a big time pass rusher like Kayvon Thibodeux at the top and the Jets can turn things around similar to the way the Browns did when they drafted Garrett and Baker back to back. 

No you trade it. The Browns and Dolphins accumualted numerous #1 picks over a few years and have improved significantly.  We are where they were. Really really bad.  We desperately need talent.   

[Maynard13]

On 9/27/2021 at 6:18 PM, FidelioJet said:

OMG - I can't count how many times I've stated I don't expect this to happen.  It's just what I would do if I were in charge.

Is it possible to have a hypothetical discussion around here?

Yes but not a far fethched delusionary one.

[Snell41]

So help me god if we end up with the #1 overall next year and don’t take the top
QB I will lose it. It will be like passing on Mahomes and Watson because we had Hackenberg.


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[Irish Jet]

4 hours ago, Snell41 said:

So help me god if we end up with the #1 overall next year and don’t take the top
QB I will lose it. It will be like passing on Mahomes and Watson because we had Hackenberg.


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No it wont.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

6 hours ago, Snell41 said:

So help me god if we end up with the #1 overall next year and don’t take the top
QB I will lose it. It will be like passing on Mahomes and Watson because we had Hackenberg.


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That would be the dumbest move in Jets history.

[Joe Jets fan]

On 9/27/2021 at 4:43 PM, FidelioJet said:

This thread is not meant to point fingers at or cast blame on anyone, it's not for "I told you so's"- there are plenty threads for that...We are where we are now

Let's look at the best way forward...

With the #1 overall pick likely, 5 picks in the top 63 and a massive amount of available cap space it's possible the right GM can turn this around.

Here are my thoughts...

• You MUST put ZW on the shelf for the rest of the season.
• Sign the best veteran QB you can find.  Someone that understands the situation the Jets are in and willing to take the lumps.  If that's Cam Newton than go get him.
• Joe Douglas should be let go immediately and unfortunatley Hymie Elthai can take the reigns in the short term.  The new GM search starts now.
• Chris Johnson needs to be placed as far away from this team as possible (say what you want about Woody but the team was never this bad under his control)
• Trade the #1 overall pick for the best deal on the table.  This team needs so much that you'll have to pass on an elite level prospect if one's there.
• Draft should focus on OL.  You can't do anything until you have an OL.  Once you feel like you have something there, then move on to other positions.
• FA's, you have to go and spend, again on OL and bringing in over priced vets (hate to do it) but the team has to get to respectability. We're just so far away from even being competitive that you have to hold your nose to pay big for simply competent level talent
• Let the new GM decide what to do with Saleh and the rest of the CS
• ZW decision is a tough one.  Two options...
  • Shelve him this year and possibly more - let him practice and learn.  Regardless of how he looks in practice he should not start playing until you have a line that can protect him and receivers that can catch.  In fact I wouldn't even dress him on game days.  He shouldn't even go in due to injury with this roster.
  • Trade him while you can still get a #1 for him (likely high 1) and run with vets until you've built a competent team and THEN and only THEN go out and draft one.

What do you guys think?

 

 

 

 

???????

[Sperm Edwards]

7 hours ago, Snell41 said:

So help me god if we end up with the #1 overall next year and don’t take the top
QB I will lose it. It will be like passing on Mahomes and Watson because we had Hackenberg.


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Spoiler alert:

 

 

 

You're going to lose it.

[FidelioJet]

7 hours ago, Snell41 said:

So help me god if we end up with the #1 overall next year and don’t take the top
QB I will lose it. It will be like passing on Mahomes and Watson because we had Hackenberg.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

It’s pretty close to a certainty we end up with the first pick.  

We should trade down and get as much as we can.  Far too many holes.  

[mfmartin]

It’s pretty close to a certainty we end up with the first pick.  

We should trade down and get as much as we can.  Far too many holes.  

It’s week 3. There is no close to certainty.


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[FidelioJet]

13 minutes ago, mfmartin said:

 

It’s week 3. There is no close to certainty.


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Should I assume you haven’t watched the games?

[shawn306]

On 9/27/2021 at 4:43 PM, FidelioJet said:

This thread is not meant to point fingers at or cast blame on anyone, it's not for "I told you so's"- there are plenty threads for that...We are where we are now

Let's look at the best way forward...

With the #1 overall pick likely, 5 picks in the top 63 and a massive amount of available cap space it's possible the right GM can turn this around.

Here are my thoughts...

• You MUST put ZW on the shelf for the rest of the season.  NO
• Sign the best veteran QB you can find.  Someone that understands the situation the Jets are in and willing to take the lumps.  If that's Cam Newton than go get him.
• Joe Douglas should be let go immediately and unfortunatley Hymie Elthai can take the reigns in the short term.  The new GM search starts now. NO
• Chris Johnson needs to be placed as far away from this team as possible (say what you want about Woody but the team was never this bad under his control)  Absolutely
• Trade the #1 overall pick for the best deal on the table.  This team needs so much that you'll have to pass on an elite level prospect if one's there.  Don't think we are going to have the #1 pick. I do expect this team to get better as the season progresses
• Draft should focus on OL.  You can't do anything until you have an OL.  Once you feel like you have something there, then move on to other positions. YES
• FA's, you have to go and spend, again on OL and bringing in over priced vets (hate to do it) but the team has to get to respectability. We're just so far away from even being competitive that you have to hold your nose to pay big for simply competent level talent. Depends on who is available
• Let the new GM decide what to do with Saleh and the rest of the CS See Bullet Point 3
• ZW decision is a tough one.  Two options...
  • Shelve him this year and possibly more - let him practice and learn.  Regardless of how he looks in practice he should not start playing until you have a line that can protect him and receivers that can catch.  In fact I wouldn't even dress him on game days.  He shouldn't even go in due to injury with this roster.
  • Trade him while you can still get a #1 for him (likely high 1) and run with vets until you've built a competent team and THEN and only THEN go out and draft one.

What do you guys think?

Douglas is not going anywhere. He tore it down and he will get the time to build it back up. We as fans just have to suck it up, take it and hope for the best.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mfmartin]

Should I assume you haven’t watched the games?

Did you assume that the Jets would beat two playoff teams last year in back to back weeks?


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[chirorob]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

It’s pretty close to a certainty we end up with the first pick.  

We should trade down and get as much as we can.  Far too many holes.  

I would 100% trade down.

It doesn't matter who your QB is, with this offensive line he will get killed.  You have to give Wilson a chance to show what he can do, and you have to improve the talent.  They also REALLY need at least 1 veteran lineman on this team to help the rookies.

One of the best FA moves the team made in the last 20 years was bringing in Faneca to help their rookie center (Mangold) and rookie left Tackle (Brick)

[FidelioJet]

31 minutes ago, chirorob said:

I would 100% trade down.

It doesn't matter who your QB is, with this offensive line he will get killed.  You have to give Wilson a chance to show what he can do, and you have to improve the talent.  They also REALLY need at least 1 veteran lineman on this team to help the rookies.

One of the best FA moves the team made in the last 20 years was bringing in Faneca to help their rookie center (Mangold) and rookie left Tackle (Brick)

yes, you trade down...

You take the top C on the board and top T on the board with your 2 first.  and yes, you sign the best OL whatever he is on the FA market.  Pay whatever it takes.  Overpay all you need to.

Still gives you at least two two's, probably 3 - at which point you take the best TE on the board.

[Snell41]

It’s pretty close to a certainty we end up with the first pick.  

We should trade down and get as much as we can.  Far too many holes.  

Absolutely not. We need a QB. We desperately need a QB. The mistake was taking Zach, just like the mistake prior was drafting Hackenberg in the 2nd round. Mistakes can be made up for. What can’t be made up for us compounding those mistakes such as passing on Mahomes and Watson for Hack. We need to be bold, if we have the number 1 pick we must take the top QB prospect and move on from Zach. I just can’t see how anyone sees anything but a strong arm in this kid. He’s not even accurate. Prior to his final season Zach nearly lost his starting job, he had to win the job. He wasn’t on anyone’s radar to even be a 1st round pick in the NFL. He’s about as poor a prospect to be taken #2 overall as there is, and frankly this frenzy to make the draft entertainment has bloated the value of just about every QB prospect. This past draft Lawrence was the only 1st round prospect in my opinion. Wilson should have been taken in the 2nd or 3rd round at the earliest. This was the season to trade down and build equity. Ride Darnold like a lame duck and target a QB in 2022. The worst mistake for us now would be to compound the error of taking Wilson by not taking a QB next year.


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[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, Snell41 said:

 

Absolutely not. We need a QB. We desperately need a QB. The mistake was taking Zach, just like the mistake prior was drafting Hackenberg in the 2nd round. Mistakes can be made up for. What can’t be made up for us compounding those mistakes such as passing on Mahomes and Watson for Hack. We need to be bold, if we have the number 1 pick we must take the top QB prospect and move on from Zach. I just can’t see how anyone sees anything but a strong arm in this kid. He’s not even accurate. Prior to his final season Zach nearly lost his starting job, he had to win the job. He wasn’t on anyone’s radar to even be a 1st round pick in the NFL. He’s about as poor a prospect to be taken #2 overall as there is, and frankly this frenzy to make the draft entertainment has bloated the value of just about every QB prospect. This past draft Lawrence was the only 1st round prospect in my opinion. Wilson should have been taken in the 2nd or 3rd round at the earliest. This was the season to trade down and build equity. Ride Darnold like a lame duck and target a QB in 2022. The worst mistake for us now would be to compound the error of taking Wilson by not taking a QB next year.


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Zach Wilson is incredibly far from the problem.  And if we don't do anything to better his protection and find WR's that can catch or get open...

Then we won't know what he is.  ZW will likely have a better skill-set and prospect than any QB that will be there at #1 overall.

Comparing Hackenburg to Wilson is absurd on its face.

[chirorob]

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

yes, you trade down...

You take the top C on the board and top T on the board with your 2 first.  and yes, you sign the best OL whatever he is on the FA market.  Pay whatever it takes.  Overpay all you need to.

Still gives you at least two two's, probably 3 - at which point you take the best TE on the board.

They HAVE to get a FA lineman.

You need a vet to help all these kids.   You can't have 5 rookies.

I am not a huge Rex fan, but one thing he did when he came in was bring in FA from Baltimore who knew his system.  Jim Leonard, Bart Scott, and I believe a D Lineman as well.   Guys who could help out the other 8 until they got up to speed.   Not one player was brought in who had experience with the new offense or defense to help all these rookies.

[FidelioJet]

3 minutes ago, chirorob said:

They HAVE to get a FA lineman.

You need a vet to help all these kids.   You can't have 5 rookies.

I am not a huge Rex fan, but one thing he did when he came in was bring in FA from Baltimore who knew his system.  Jim Leonard, Bart Scott, and I believe a D Lineman as well.   Guys who could help out the other 8 until they got up to speed.   Not one player was brought in who had experience with the new offense or defense to help all these rookies.

It would be Becton year 3, AVT year 2, 1st round Rookie C, Top FA Guard - 1st round Rookie RT

I would be totally happy with this line.  You want to sign a couple of Vets for depth, great.  

[chirorob]

8 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

It would be Becton year 3, AVT year 2, 1st round Rookie C, Top FA Guard - 1st round Rookie RT

I would be totally happy with this line.  You want to sign a couple of Vets for depth, great.  

Becton is not a sure thing, and he is a 3rd year player who will have maybe 1 year starting experience.  So yeah, FA guard/center and draft the other.   I don't know what lineman are coming out yet.

[FidelioJet]

3 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Becton is not a sure thing, and he is a 3rd year player who will have maybe 1 year starting experience.  So yeah, FA guard/center and draft the other.   I don't know what lineman are coming out yet.

Sure....I think we both agree we should focus on OL in both FA and draft.  

If for no other reason than to figure out what Zach Wilson is.

[chirorob]

18 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Sure....I think we both agree we should focus on OL in both FA and draft.  

If for no other reason than to figure out what Zach Wilson is.

No matter who the QB is, with this line they will fail.   You have to have some sort of an offense before drafting another QB, and Zach could be that guy, he needs more than 3 games.

[ScarletKnight89]

On 9/28/2021 at 11:19 PM, Maynard13 said:

No you trade it. The Browns and Dolphins accumualted numerous #1 picks over a few years and have improved significantly.  We are where they were. Really really bad.  We desperately need talent.   

I think it depends who is the top player available. The Browns stayed at 1 and took Myles Garrett. If there is a stud pass rusher coming out, I wouldn't be trading that pick. Just my opinion. We already have tons of picks in the next draft.

[Maynard13]

9 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

I think it depends who is the top player available. The Browns stayed at 1 and took Myles Garrett. If there is a stud pass rusher coming out, I wouldn't be trading that pick. Just my opinion. We already have tons of picks in the next draft.

Hard to argue that point. But think about it: Add picks to a draft where we already have 2 #1'S AND 2# 2'S.  WE COULD REALLY FORTIFY BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL WITH SOME QUALITY TALENT.

[mfmartin]

It’s been 4-5 days since this was posted and I still can’t believe someone thought this was a good idea


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[mfmartin]

It’s been 4-5 days since this was posted and I still can’t believe someone thought this was a good idea


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Thank god we didn’t fire the GM and bench the quarterback after 3 games like some of you wanted. Jeez


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[steJMike]

On 9/27/2021 at 7:41 PM, JTJet said:

At least on the field he can DO something about his confidence. He can work on it. 

You cant do that riding the pine. 

This proved to be true against Tenn.  Lets hope it continues. 

[Jetscode1]

Great thread bump!