Saleh on Michael Kay today..it's getting ridiculous on Mims

[Spoot-Face]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Try hard and suck is the new all gas no breaks. 

Is also @JiFapono's motto.

[MykePM]

4 hours ago, jetscrazey said:

If you think this is about bending over for the fan base you’re an idiot.  20 points in 3 games. 

La’Mical Perine produced almost as many yards as Mims did last year.  Where’s the outrage that he hasn’t been active for the last couple of games either?  This isn’t like Jerry Rice in his prime being benched.  It’s Denzel freaking Mims.  The way the media and fans have snowballed this into Watergate II is as sad a commentary on herd mentality as I’ve seen in a while.

[Anthony Jet]

8 hours ago, GandWFan said:

It's wrong.

Don’t disagree. Although a small part of me kinda likes it cause we’ve all been wanting a complete culture change here, and stuff like this is what changes the locker room that being said it’s a fine line especially if your getting blown out week in and week out 

[jetswin]

12 hours ago, heymangold said:

THIS actually happened yesterday.

but MIMS doesn’t know the playbook.

wt freaking f?

[Alka]

16 hours ago, Warfish said:

So, exploring this conspiracy theory further, what do you think they are "lying" to you about?

Isn't it obvious?  They are lying that Mims is not good enough to be activated for the games.

It is also obvious that the coaches are not happy with Mims for whatever reasons.  Some obvious reasons:  Poor attitude, dogging it in practice; not paying attention to the coaches, being lackadaisical....pick your reasons, they are all part of the picture.

One thing we do know, is that Mims has real speed, he is big, and can take the top off the defense on deep pass plays.  With his size, he can fight for the ball when he is not clearly open.

These are things that our smaller recievers are unable to do, thus, he can do things that we need on the field to help the offense.

[Warfish]

7 hours ago, MykePM said:

La’Mical Perine produced almost as many yards as Mims did last year.  Where’s the outrage that he hasn’t been active for the last couple of games either?

An interesting point.  It's not like our active RB's have been tearing up the league.  

And Perine is a better blocker I believe than Ty Johnson.

And Perine is supposedly a very good out-of-backfield pass catcher.

So I agree, why is there no equivalent conspiracy theory for his inactive status as their is for Denzel "Fan's All-Pro" Mims?

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see both see the field, see if anything does change, given how bad we are so far.

I just don't buy the "they're lying to us, there must be some super-sekrit reason Mims is inactive, what is it, WHAT IS IT I MUST KNOW!!!" truther viewpoint some have expressed here at JN.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. 

Sometimes a player just isn't doing what the Coaches want to the level they want in order to play them.  No conspiracies required.

[FidelioJet]

7 hours ago, MykePM said:

La’Mical Perine produced almost as many yards as Mims did last year.  Where’s the outrage that he hasn’t been active for the last couple of games either?  This isn’t like Jerry Rice in his prime being benched.  It’s Denzel freaking Mims.  The way the media and fans have snowballed this into Watergate II is as sad a commentary on herd mentality as I’ve seen in a while.

Did you watch Perine play?  He looks every bit a jag.  He's a slow plodding RB with no burst. 

Did you watch Mims play? He looks like he has tremendous upside - his natural skill-set is undeniable.

Fact is, with the limited amount of talent on the Jets a talent like Mims needs to be on the field.

It's not a herd mentality thing - it's a fans that watch the game thing.  

[The Crusher]

7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

An interesting point.  It's not like our active RB's have been tearing up the league.  

And Perine is a better blocker I believe than Ty Johnson.

And Perine is supposedly a very good out-of-backfield pass catcher.

So I agree, why is there no equivalent conspiracy theory for his inactive status as their is for Denzel "Fan's All-Pro" Mims?

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see both see the field, see if anything does change, given how bad we are so far.

I just don't buy the "they're lying to us, there must be some super-sekrit reason Mims is inactive, what is it, WHAT IS IT I MUST KNOW!!!" truther viewpoint some have expressed here at JN.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. 

Sometimes a player just isn't doing what the Coaches want to the level they want in order to play them.  No conspiracies required.

Other times it becomes a blunt. FREE DENZEL!

[Augustiniak]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

An interesting point.  It's not like our active RB's have been tearing up the league.  

And Perine is a better blocker I believe than Ty Johnson.

And Perine is supposedly a very good out-of-backfield pass catcher.

So I agree, why is there no equivalent conspiracy theory for his inactive status as their is for Denzel "Fan's All-Pro" Mims?

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see both see the field, see if anything does change, given how bad we are so far.

I just don't buy the "they're lying to us, there must be some super-sekrit reason Mims is inactive, what is it, WHAT IS IT I MUST KNOW!!!" truther viewpoint some have expressed here at JN.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. 

Sometimes a player just isn't doing what the Coaches want to the level they want in order to play them.  No conspiracies required.

But here’s the quandary.  The jets have reasonable alternatives to Perine.  Perine is by all accounts a jag rb.  Carter seems better than Perine.  So at least by keeping Perine inactive, it’s hard to argue the jets as a team on sundays are suffering.

by contrast, the jets wrs suck.  Mims has physical tools the others don’t, and in limited time last year, he averaged 15.5 ypc.  This year his only catch went for 40 yards.  His big plays are not a fluke.  So in this instance, not playing mims is probably hurting the development of the rookie qb and the offense in general.  Saleh is truly ‘cutting his nose to spite his face’ here.  And now injuries are starting to pile up.  Moore could miss next game b/c of a concussion and crowder, well who knows.  If saleh starts vincent smith and Jeff smith over mims, well, that’s just not a watchable team (not that it is now).  Douglas promised us he’d fix the offense.  How would vincent smith, Jeff smith and berrios be better than what we’ve had the past 10 years?  Big problems looming this Sunday if mims does not play.

[Warfish]

6 minutes ago, Alka said:

Isn't it obvious?  They are lying that Mims is not good enough to be activated for the games.

It is also obvious that the coaches are not happy with Mims for whatever reasons.  Some obvious reasons:  Poor attitude, dogging it in practice; not paying attention to the coaches, being lackadaisical....pick your reasons, they are all part of the picture.

You do understand that a player having "Poor attitude, dogging it in practice; not paying attention to the coaches, being lackadaisical" makes Mims "not good enough to be activated for games" in the eyes of many NFL Coaches, right?

I get it, we're all mad we suck.  We all think Mims, if he tried, would be better than the depth WR's currently getting more playing time than we'd like.

But it's not a conspiracy.  It's a lazy, dumb or both player.  Blame the player.  Not the staff.

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

You do understand that a player having "Poor attitude, dogging it in practice; not paying attention to the coaches, being lackadaisical" makes Mims "not good enough to be activated for games" in the eyes of many NFL Coaches, right?

I get it, we're all mad we suck.  We all think Mims, if he tried, would be better than the depth WR's currently getting more playing time than we'd like.

But it's not a conspiracy.  It's a lazy, dumb or both player.  Blame the player.  Not the staff.

I don’t think this coaching staff has any cred yet such that we should automatically assume they are correct in this situation.  And that’s before you consider they haven’t scored a touchdown in 8 consecutive quarters.

[Biggs]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

You do understand that a player having "Poor attitude, dogging it in practice; not paying attention to the coaches, being lackadaisical" makes Mims "not good enough to be activated for games" in the eyes of many NFL Coaches, right?

I get it, we're all mad we suck.  We all think Mims, if he tried, would be better than the depth WR's currently getting more playing time than we'd like.

But it's not a conspiracy.  It's a lazy, dumb or both player.  Blame the player.  Not the staff.

Ewbank tolerated Namath showing up to games late drunk and won a SB with him.  Parcells tolerated Lawrence meeting coke dealers at halftime and won a couple of SB with him. 

The NFL is full of obscenely gifted players who aren't about team, don't really give a crap.  Coaches still have to figure out ways to put them in position to help teams win.  The Oakland A's were pummeling each other in the locker room and kicking ass on the baseball field.

There's a difference between the culture and a cult.  

[Phillyjet]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

You do understand that a player having "Poor attitude, dogging it in practice; not paying attention to the coaches, being lackadaisical" makes Mims "not good enough to be activated for games" in the eyes of many NFL Coaches, right?

I get it, we're all mad we suck.  We all think Mims, if he tried, would be better than the depth WR's currently getting more playing time than we'd like.

But it's not a conspiracy.  It's a lazy, dumb or both player.  Blame the player.  Not the staff.

agree; can't believe we are wasting so much time on what looks like a blown draft pick.  Also makes me miss Parcells, who would have told the media, "when she learns how to play the game, I'll play her.  Next question."  And then he would have reduced the media member to ashes.  
 

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

You do understand that a player having "Poor attitude, dogging it in practice; not paying attention to the coaches, being lackadaisical" makes Mims "not good enough to be activated for games" in the eyes of many NFL Coaches, right?

I get it, we're all mad we suck.  We all think Mims, if he tried, would be better than the depth WR's currently getting more playing time than we'd like.

But it's not a conspiracy.  It's a lazy, dumb or both player.  Blame the player.  Not the staff.

This may or may not be true.  
But your position would actually be the conspiracy theory. As this isn’t what they’re saying is going on - it’s the assumption by the fan base. 

The non-conspiracy theory is what they are actually saying, which is…   
The guys in front of Mims are better. And if he wants playing time - he needs to learn more positions so there’s more opportunity to get in.

That’s pretty much all they’ve said on the matter. 
 

Again, if you’re looking at reality and not conspiracy, you then have to ask why they think the other guys are better.  The likely answer to that is scheme fit.  
 

And that, in my mind, brings us back to bad coaching.  

[section314]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

You do understand that a player having "Poor attitude, dogging it in practice; not paying attention to the coaches, being lackadaisical" makes Mims "not good enough to be activated for games" in the eyes of many NFL Coaches, right?

I get it, we're all mad we suck.  We all think Mims, if he tried, would be better than the depth WR's currently getting more playing time than we'd like.

But it's not a conspiracy.  It's a lazy, dumb or both player.  Blame the player.  Not the staff.

Amen brother.  Saw this quote from Lou Holtz recently when he was asked what is the difference between players today and 50 years ago.  "Simple, today's players talk about rights and privileges. Players 50 years ago talked about obligations and responsibilities."

[Biggs]

2 minutes ago, Phillyjet said:

agree; can't believe we are wasting so much time on what looks like a blown draft pick.  Also makes me miss Parcells, who would have told the media, "when she learns how to play the game, I'll play her.  Next question."  And then he would have reduced the media member to ashes.  
 

Parcells would also play him if he added something to the O even if it didn't fit the culture. 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, section314 said:

Amen brother.  Saw this quote from Lou Holtz recently when he was asked what is the difference between players today and 50 years ago.  "Simple, today's players talk about rights and privileges. Players 50 years ago talked about obligations and responsibilities."

But if you’re going to win today, you have to deal with today’s players.  You can’t expect millennials to respond to the same type of coaching.  Adapt or suck.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Biggs said:

Parcells would also play him if he added something to the O even if it didn't fit the culture. 

Good coaches put the best players on the field and figure things out.  

[RevisIsland610]

32 minutes ago, jetswin said:

wt freaking f?

Yet they expect a rookie QB to be successful in this sh*tshow of an offense. Idiots. 

[Biggs]

4 minutes ago, section314 said:

Amen brother.  Saw this quote from Lou Holtz recently when he was asked what is the difference between players today and 50 years ago.  "Simple, today's players talk about rights and privileges. Players 50 years ago talked about obligations and responsibilities."

Lou Holtz couldn't coach pro football players 45 years ago. 

[section314]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

But if you’re going to win today, you have to deal with today’s players.  You can’t expect millennials to respond to the same type of coaching.  Adapt or suck.

Obligations and responsibility are timeless and generational. They have absolutely nothing to do with being a millennial.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, section314 said:

Obligations and responsibility are timeless and generational. They have absolutely nothing to do with being a millennial.

Abstract concepts don’t win football games.  

[section314]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Abstract concepts don’t win football games.  

There is nothing abstract about being accountable to yourself and your teammates. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

13 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

I don’t think this coaching staff has any cred yet such that we should automatically assume they are correct in this situation.  And that’s before you consider they haven’t scored a touchdown in 8 consecutive quarters.

I think this is the critical point. If the people involved in this decision had a long track record of success OR the current offense was doing well,  this Mims thing wouldn't really be an issue. 

But there is no reason, for any of us to have faith in these guys judgment.... yet..

Especially when the argument against Mims this far is special teams when the rest of us know that developing Wilson should be priority 1,2,3,4,5........

[Augustiniak]

Just now, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I think this is the critical point. If the people involved in this decision had a long track record of success OR the current offense was doing well,  this Mims thing wouldn't really be an issue. 

But there is no reason, for any of us to have faith in these guys judgment.... yet..

Especially when the argument against Mims this far is special teams when the rest of us know that developing Wilson should be priority 1,2,3,4,5........

If moore sits this week along with crowder, and mims does not play and the jets have davis, berrios and the smith duo out there, and they don’t score, saleh is going to have a s***storm upon him.  That’s where he is only 3 games into this season.  

[Warfish]

18 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The NFL is full of obscenely gifted players who aren't about team, don't really give a crap.

Denzel Mims is not "obscenely gifted".

He is not Joe Namath.  He is not LT.  He is not John Riggins.

For god sake, reign in the hyperbole.

[DoubleDown]

47 minutes ago, Warfish said:

But it's not a conspiracy.  It's a lazy, dumb or both player.

Isn't this the conspiracy?

Saleh said it's the scheme and having a very good receiver group overall.  So basically, the coaches view the receivers ahead of Mims as simply a better fit for the system.

You can agree with them, or you can question their assessment.  I don't think they have done much to date to earn the benefit of the doubt.  In a scenario where the team is averaging 6 points a game and hasn't scored a touchdown in 8 consecutive quarters, I say get your 2nd round talent on the field and give him a shot.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, DoubleDown said:

Isn't this view a conspiracy?

Saleh said it's the scheme and having a very good receiver group overall.  So basically, the coaches view the receivers ahead of Mims as simply a better fit for the system.

They’re not scoring.  Maybe they’re wrong about this.

[Warfish]

Just now, DoubleDown said:

Isn't this view a conspiracy?

Saleh said it's the scheme

Not knowing the scheme makes him lazy or dumb.

Just now, DoubleDown said:

and having a very good receiver group overall.

Not beating out less gifted WR's makes him lazy or dumb.

Just now, DoubleDown said:

  So basically, the coaches view the receivers ahead of Mims as simply a better fit for the system.

And the only way that happens is Mims being lazy.  Or dumb.

This really isn't rocket science.

And no, it's not a conspiracy theory.

Saying "They're LYING to us!  What are they hiding!!!" is conspiracy theory.

They're not hiding anything.  They're clearly saying Mims is lazy, dumb or both, they're just saying it nicely.

[Greensleeves]

14 hours ago, Anthony Jet said:

Lmao. He’s lying. You guys are nuts. 
 

He basically spelled out for you

sometimes it is what you think it is 

Mims is not putting the work in and they aren’t gonna sit a guy that is busting his hump. Wether that’s right or wrong strategy is another question. 

sometimes you gotta play the guys that can perform on game day. There are no victories in practicing well. Every sport has athletes that raise their level when it matters and Mims may be that type of guy. Maybe his mind is clearer when he just goes out and plays as opposed to new concepts that are introduced every day in practice. Simplify and let his athletic ability come out.

[Anthony Jet]

Just now, Greensleeves said:

sometimes you gotta play the guys that can perform on game day. There are no victories in practicing well. Every sport has athletes that raise their level when it matters and Mims may be that type of guy. Maybe his mind is clearer when he just goes out and plays as opposed to new concepts that are introduced every day in practice. Simplify and let his athletic ability come out.

I’m not disagreeing with any of that. I’m also not sure that’s the way I would go. I just meant all the conspiracy theories out there. It’s plain as day WHY this CS isn’t playing him in there minds. The CS decision is objective and can be argued on either side. With both sides having valid points 

[DoubleDown]

23 hours ago, Warfish said:

Not knowing the scheme makes him lazy or dumb.

Not beating out less gifted WR's makes him lazy or dumb.

And the only way that happens is Mims being lazy.  Or dumb.

I have to respectfully disagree.

When Tannenbaum and Mangini traded Jonathan Vilma to the Saints, was it because he was lazy or dumb?  No, he just wasn't a good fit as a 3-4 ILB.

Some players and their skill sets just aren't good fits for certain systems.  Some players just aren't as talented as other players.  It doesn't make them lazy or dumb.

Saleh and LeFleur seem to place a high value on route running, a trait that was never a strong suit for Mims.

I don't think it's outlandish for fans to suggest that Mims may be able to jump start this offense if given a chance.

By the way, I agree with you that the "they're lying!" narrative is nonsense.  They simply view the players ahead of Mims as better fits for the system they are trying to run.  And that is exactly what Saleh said in this interview.

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, jetswin said:

wt freaking f?

If only ZW threw the ball sooner.  That would solve this problem.  

[MykePM]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

But here’s the quandary.  The jets have reasonable alternatives to Perine.  Perine is by all accounts a jag rb.  Carter seems better than Perine.  So at least by keeping Perine inactive, it’s hard to argue the jets as a team on sundays are suffering.

by contrast, the jets wrs suck.  Mims has physical tools the others don’t, and in limited time last year, he averaged 15.5 ypc.  This year his only catch went for 40 yards.  His big plays are not a fluke.  So in this instance, not playing mims is probably hurting the development of the rookie qb and the offense in general.  Saleh is truly ‘cutting his nose to spite his face’ here.  And now injuries are starting to pile up.  Moore could miss next game b/c of a concussion and crowder, well who knows.  If saleh starts vincent smith and Jeff smith over mims, well, that’s just not a watchable team (not that it is now).  Douglas promised us he’d fix the offense.  How would vincent smith, Jeff smith and berrios be better than what we’ve had the past 10 years?  Big problems looming this Sunday if mims does not play.

Did you take a close look at Mims’s big 40-yard reception?  He didn’t lay down an elusive move to get free from tight coverage or make a spectacular contested catch.  He jogged down the field and was released by the CB as part of extremely soft (or arguably busted) zone coverage, then coasted out of bounds after a pretty pedestrian catch. 
 

Say what you want about Berrios, but he’s making plays and, perhaps more importantly, runs crisp routes and is dependable.  It’s hard enough for Zach Wilson to find open receivers without having to wonder if a guy is going to be where he’s supposed to be, no matter how much raw talent he has.  
 

Oh, and Jeff Smith had a 35-yard catch against the Patriots, a much more impressive one than Mims’s, but no one’s putting him in Canton for it.

 

[JetsMetsRangers]

59 minutes ago, section314 said:

Amen brother.  Saw this quote from Lou Holtz recently when he was asked what is the difference between players today and 50 years ago.  "Simple, today's players talk about rights and privileges. Players 50 years ago talked about obligations and responsibilities."

Lou Holtz resigned after going 3-10 before his first season ended with the Jets and i believe he resigned from Arkansas too......I guess obligations and responsibilities did not mean much to Lou then.........