The only thing worse than a crappy coach is a crappy coach with conviction

[SAR I]

1 minute ago, Joe W. Namath said:

And this happened because we have spent like druken sailors for these new coaches.  And then 2 years later, we are in cap hell and our quick fix scheme fails.  Rinse, repeat.

Only a jet fan would highlight 20 years of a few 9 and 10 win seasons followed by multiple 4 and 6 win seasons and say we should go back to this.  Hysterical.

I did not say I wanted to go back to this.  I merely said that we have a fanbase conditioned to expect a culture change to produce noticeable improvements and wins.

That said....

What the hell is wrong with spending like drunken sailors to get a 3 year window before that window shuts for another 3? 

Parcells turned us from 1-15 to 12-4 in two years by buying players he knew and trusted, from Vinny Testaverde to Curtis Martin to Kevin Mawae to Jumbo Elliot.  And Tannenbaum brought in a boatload of talent from LaDanian Tomlinson to Tony Richardson to Braylon Edwards to Santonio Holmes to Damien Woody to Bart Scott to Calvin Pace to Antonio Cromartie.

Doing it the "right way" means, what, being the New Orleans Saints?  15 years of early playoff losses and crushing playoff eliminations in the hopes of getting lucky just one time and winning it all?  And that's with Drew Brees!  Same for the Packers with Favre and again with Rodgers.  They had 25 years of early playoff losses and crushing playoff eliminations just to eke out 2 Super Bowl trophies.  Colts with Manning?  Same damned thing.

All you get is 1 shot to have the stars align and win it all.  Ask the Saints.  Ask the Packers.  Ask the Colts.  Ask the Ravens.  Ask the Eagles.  Meanwhile, the Jets were 60 minutes from the Super Bowl 3 times doing it the other way, the Parcells way, the Tannenbaum way.  If Tannenbaum were still here, instead of rebuilding every 3 years, we'd be reloading every 3 years, might have won a Super Bowl that way.

The Jets actually pioneered a shortcut to Championship Sunday, it's one of our greatest accomplishments at a macro level.  Figures we'd abandon it.

SAR I

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

23 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

And this happened because we have spent like druken sailors for these new coaches.  And then 2 years later, we are in cap hell and our quick fix scheme fails.  Rinse, repeat.

We might win 3 games this year.  Then win 7 the following year.  Then win 11 the next year etc.  Thats how a rebuild goes when the goal is long term success.

But you wanted us to spend like crazy so we can win 10 games this year and then turn to sh!t like we always do.

Great plan!

Only a jet fan would highlight 20 years of a few 9 and 10 win seasons followed by multiple 4 and 6 win seasons and say we should go back to this.  Hysterical.

 

 

No way we win 3 games this year. What's even more laughable is your 7 win prediction for next year. 

The only way that happens is if the new gm spends 300 million in FA ? ? 

Face it. This "rebuild " is going in the wrong direction. We are averaging 6 points a game. 6

[Dunnie]

Saleh sucks because Zach sucks

Yeah . Ummmnn No

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[DetroitRed]

Zach is going to be fine. Watch the game over. He was victimized multiple times and one of the picks was not on him.  By the end of the year, he will be cooking 

[Irish Jet]

2 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

Zach is going to be fine. Watch the game over. He was victimized multiple times and one of the picks was not on him.  By the end of the year, he will be cooking 

By the end of the year he will be injured. 

[Better2bgreenthanblue]

Z10 hours ago, SAR I said:

What we have is worse.  We have a rookie CEO-type head coach.

Now, so too is Bill Belichick and so too was Bill Parcells, the idea being that they aren't acting as coordinators so they can focus on other things like motivation, culture, clock management expertise, rulebook expertise, handling the media, and take all those burdens off the coordinators.

Sounds good on paper, and I support it, but when the HC hasn't built up that level of respect the players feel like he doesn't matter.  They report to the coordinators and the HC isn't their problem.  Add to that how Saleh is a players-coach type and has set a lowkey tone.  Add to that how he is supporting LaFleur in Mimsgate.  And we've created a situation not unlike all the Belichick disciples-  they talk a good game but the players don't automatically respect them like they do the CEO-types with experience which leads to fractures and a lack of discipline.

SAR I

This is very interesting and insightful. Seems to me young CEO's who succeed are high energy types, who's strength of personality overtakes any opposition. The good ones surround themselves with top talent. Low key Saleh and the unproven young coaching staff magnify our lack of roster talent. We have a long way to go. I just hope 3 years from now we are not trading Zach for a mid round pick excited we have a top 3 pick in a QB heavy draft. Groundhogs suck. 

[rangerous]

it's always easy to tear down a coach.  yes, saleh is the guy at the top so what we see is something he has created.  but he also has the power to fix.  if lafleur is putting in an offense that's stupid, it's up to saleh to recognize this and make changes.  but he's also going to give it some time to jell.  lafleur's offense may be perfectly good but if the players don't execute, it doesn't work.  last season we had the virus to thank for much of the training camp turmoil.  there's less of an excuse this season but even there, a lot of new faces, players not having the full training camp, rookie qb and there are reasons why it's not working just now.  i suspect we're going to see much of the same at least until the break.  hopefully they'll pull off a win or two.

[Dunnie]

it's always easy to tear down a coach.  yes, saleh is the guy at the top so what we see is something he has created.  but he also has the power to fix.  if lafleur is putting in an offense that's stupid, it's up to saleh to recognize this and make changes.  but he's also going to give it some time to jell.  lafleur's offense may be perfectly good but if the players don't execute, it doesn't work.  last season we had the virus to thank for much of the training camp turmoil.  there's less of an excuse this season but even there, a lot of new faces, players not having the full training camp, rookie qb and there are reasons why it's not working just now.  i suspect we're going to see much of the same at least until the break.  hopefully they'll pull off a win or two.

Did you see Saleh in the press confetence when asked about the offense ... he sounded like it was the first time hechad heard the term 'offense'.

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[Integrity28]

9 hours ago, SAR I said:

If the players respected Robert Saleh they wouldn't be pointing fingers in the media.  If the players believed in All Gas the defense wouldn't flat-out quit tackling, the offense wouldn't blow assignments, the special teams wouldn't screw up the clock.  And most damning, if the players felt accountability for the W/L record they would be playing a hell of a lot harder than this.

We've got a Herman Edwards personality trying to sell a Bill Parcells slogan who reports to a horrible player-picker who is trying his hardest to act like he hasn't been in Florham Park for 30 months and preaching "just improve, baby". 

This is setting a new standard for NFL dysfunction.  And it's just starting.  By Halloween this is going to get really interesting.

SAR I

I could have trolled this in 3 notes.

[rangerous]

47 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Did you see Saleh in the press confetence when asked about the offense ... he sounded like it was the first time hechad heard the term 'offense'.

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no.   i think maybe he, like rex and bowles are too wrapped up in defense to really put enough emphasis on offense.  he has probably entrusted too much to lafeur.  maybe not such a good idea considering the inexperience.  we'll see.  if these guys are for real they will straighten things out in short order.

[Facts]

4 hours ago, DetroitRed said:

Zach is going to be fine. Watch the game over. He was victimized multiple times and one of the picks was not on him.  By the end of the year, he will be cooking 

Zack may turn out to be a stud, but let’s not pretend that he hasn’t sucked ass so far.

[Facts]

12 hours ago, SAR I said:

We've got a Herman Edwards personality trying to sell a Bill Parcells slogan

Wow.

You just put into words what my brain has been trying to formulate for 3 weeks now.

You nailed it.

[section314]

4 hours ago, DetroitRed said:

Zach is going to be fine. Watch the game over. He was victimized multiple times and one of the picks was not on him.  By the end of the year, he will be cooking 

How did you get this one past the gloom and doom censors?

[DetroitRed]

44 minutes ago, section314 said:

How did you get this one past the gloom and doom censors?

LOL

His first pass of the  game was being described as inaccurate.  it was actually miscommunication that they have to clean up

[kevinc855]

Well it’s Tuesday so I’m sure we will have a “great practice” so coach has that going for him

[Dunnie]

Im looking forward to another great practice tomorrow w/ extreme anticipation.

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[Drums]

7 hours ago, DetroitRed said:

Zach is going to be fine. Watch the game over. He was victimized multiple times and one of the picks was not on him.  By the end of the year, he will be cooking 

I watched Dak throw all over the field and his WRs actually caught the ball. Some throws, I was like wow, our WRs would have dropped it.  What I’m trying to say is I agree… once our WRs stop dropping the ball. If it hits your hands catch the damn ball. Pathetic. 

[Biggs]

4 minutes ago, Drums said:

I watched Dak throw all over the field and his WRs actually caught the ball. Some throws, I was like wow, our WRs would have dropped it.  What I’m trying to say is I agree… once our WRs stop dropping the ball. If it hits your hands catch the damn ball. Pathetic. 

It's amazing what NFL WR are doing in today's NFL.  The adjustments, the concentration and the footwork of the top guys today is spectacular.  You see it in almost every NFL game.  It's so rare we see it from the Jets we look at guys who are really average as way better than they are.  

[FootballLove]

Few thoughts:

Seems every team with a rookie QB is struggling (mightily). Fields finally got his first start....had SIX completions. And was sacked NINE TIMES!

Even teams with non-rookie QBs are struggling too....Danny Dimes is 0-3, just like his counterpart, Big Ben looked like a punching bag....I've never seen him get slammed to the ground so many times in one game.,...I thought they were gonna kill him. Tyler Boyd (Bengals) says the Steelers outright QUIT at the end of the game. Ouch. Rams turned Tom Brady into their personal piñata.

First thing EVERY GM/HC says on the way in: "We're building a new culture here with men who want to be here, with men who love football, and men who want to win blah blah blah". Joe Douglas and Bobby Saleh were no different. But sooner or later you move off your culture mantra that led to drafting Team Captains and start drafting talented prima donna pricks.

Last, it seems like half the teams in the league are STRUGGLING with bad O-Lines. Steelers, Giants, Jets are HORRIBLE. Nothing will get better until the O-Line gets FIXED.

[Drums]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

It's amazing what NFL WR are doing in today's NFL.  The adjustments, the concentration and the footwork of the top guys today is spectacular.  You see it in almost every NFL game.  It's so rare we see it from the Jets we look at guys who are really average as way better than they are.  

A WR dropping a catchable ball is like a kicker missing a makable fg. YOU HAVE ONE JOB

I’m kinda tired of watching other games and being jealous of basically every aspect  It’s demoralizing but I can’t quit the goddam Jets

[UntouchableCrew]

20 hours ago, Facts said:

 

2) Saleh doesn’t seem to know the intricacies of the rules. I realize that this is a bit nitpicky, but it bothers me. You want a head coach that knows every facet of the game. How does a head coach not know what plays can be challenged and what plays can not? In certain situations, the ref can actually take a timeout away for doing this.

 

 

 

 

 

I mean, he was trying to challenge the spot. They told him he couldn't because they ruled forward progress had been reached, which was a terrible call. They didn't take a timeout after this explanation.

He did nothing wrong at all.

[Facts]

2 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I mean, he was trying to challenge the spot. They told him he couldn't because they ruled forward progress had been reached, which was a terrible call. They didn't take a timeout after this explanation.

He did nothing wrong at all.

uh huh…

[SOJ]

What is galling is his analogy to boxing.  That was insulting,  Hey coach, how about coaching up your players, you know the guys that miss assignments regularly, make mental mistakes, drop passes, etc.  QB that continues to do the same dam things SAM did (throw off back foot, bad decisions, etc.)  Where the **** is the accountability here?  

I wanted this guy because I saw the passion but passion is useless when you fail to dripline players.  Or for that matter coaches for failure to perform...

[heymangold]

On 9/27/2021 at 8:57 PM, Facts said:

It hasn’t been 3 days. It’s been 6+ months of teaching these players. From OTA’s to Training Camp to the regular season. 

And if I was a surgeon, and a hospital hired me to do heart surgeries, I couldn’t botch the first few and be like “oops, i’m still new here!”

No. I’d be expected to know what I was doing before I took the job.

 

I love how you have 2 accounts / facts and facts only, using one to gas up the other or give negative reps to others.

 

doctors goto school for what, 8 years before they are employed?  They do hours and hours on how to be a DOCTOR.  Saleh didn’t get hours and hours to be a HEAD COACH.  He was defensive coordinator. If you wanted someone that was a HC before, shoulda pounded the table for a Doug Pederson or someone of that ilk.  Gase was a prior HC, how’d that work out?

[Facts]

8 hours ago, heymangold said:

I love how you have 2 accounts / facts and facts only, using one to gas up the other or give negative reps to others.

I don’t have 2 accounts, genius. I have no idea who “facts only” is and I have no idea why he would pick a name so close to mine. I wish the mods would make him change it. If I were going to do something so pathetic as making another account to rep my main account, I certainly wouldn’t pick a username that’s nearly identical to my first one.

As for Saleh, i’m giving him time. Not that I have any choice. I’m simply saying it doesn’t look good right now. The really good coaches (lately) tend to step right in and do well. Maybe not in terms of wins or a playoff in their first year, but field a competitive team that doesn’t have tons of penalties or gap assignment issues and knowing the rule book.

 

[jetstream23]

On 9/27/2021 at 5:34 PM, heymangold said:

Again - it’s his THIRD game doing it.  If you didn’t want a new HC and woulda been happy doing it with a retread, then you shoulda said so.  Growing pains are going to happen.

We were spoiled by Rex Ryan who went down to Houston in his first game, smacked the Texans around, massaged their girlfriends' feet, and left town with a W.

It doesn't always work out that way.

[More Cowbell]

On 9/27/2021 at 8:10 PM, Facts said:

Because they buy into their own bullsh*t and refuse to ever change it.

Exhibit A: Flores in Miami. People call him a “true leader”. Disciplined. Tough. Blah blah blah. Sound familiar? He’s Saleh, before Saleh was Saleh. Flores is now in his 3rd season, is sucking wind at 1-2, and is stuck in his philosophies.

There is no hiding the fact that this Jets team is devoid of talent. But there are many things going on that has nothing to do with talent.

1) One example of this is the o-line. Many of you want to blame the talent on the line. And you wouldn’t be wrong. But listen, a player getting physically beat is a talent issue. Yet much of the problem is players literally not knowing what gap is theirs. Not knowing what guy to block. Not knowing their assignment. And THAT is coaching.

 

2) Saleh doesn’t seem to know the intricacies of the rules. I realize that this is a bit nitpicky, but it bothers me. You want a head coach that knows every facet of the game. How does a head coach not know what plays can be challenged and what plays can not? In certain situations, the ref can actually take a timeout away for doing this.

 

3) Miscellaneous bullsh*t, such as having a delay of game that pushes you out of field goal range. That is 100% coaching. That can NOT happen.

 

Yea, the talent sucks.

Real bad.

But in addition to the talent sucking, the coaching has been sucking too.

Sorry for the DWCish type post. I’m getting drunk.

 

 

 

Great post. I have not really been on Saleh but this has kind of shined a light on it

[kevinc855]

I'm nervous about Saleh....initially loved the hire.

There was one time Sunday I saw that blank "i cant believe we are this bad" stare that I used to see ALL THE TIME from Bowles. 

This guy will have a future in the NFL, just like Bowles did. The question, is whether it will be as a HC or DC. This teams knows better then ever some guys are meant to be HC's and some are meant to be coordinators. 

He HAS to insert himself into our offense problem and fix it in a hurry. 

[Jetsfan80]

11 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

We were spoiled by Rex Ryan who went down to Houston in his first game, smacked the Texans around, massaged their girlfriends' feet, and left town with a W.

It doesn't always work out that way.

And the key point is he did that with a loaded roster.  The year before Rex Ryan's arrival, the team went 9-7.  THEN they added several more key pieces in free agency. 

The year before Saleh's arrival, the team was 2-14.  And the biggest FA acquisition, Carl Lawson, went down for the year before playing a snap.

[Ecuadorian Jet]

it was obvious, but we wanted to believe that anything would be better than Gase; putting a rookie HC and a rookie OC in charge of a rookie QB was pretty stupid on the GMs part.

[Nixhead]

“The only thing worse than a crappy coach is a crappy coach with conviction”

You are so right and that’s exactly what we’ve got. But there’s got to be something to this guy right? I mean he has to be able to coach a little something good out of this team? I hope!

[Facts]

On 9/29/2021 at 10:18 PM, Nixhead said:

“The only thing worse than a crappy coach is a crappy coach with conviction”

You are so right and that’s exactly what we’ve got. But there’s got to be something to this guy right? I mean he has to be able to coach a little something good out of this team? I hope!

Narrator: He could not.

[Facts]

On 9/27/2021 at 8:34 PM, heymangold said:

Again - it’s his THIRD game doing it.  If you didn’t want a new HC and woulda been happy doing it with a retread, then you shoulda said so.  Growing pains are going to happen.

It’s now his 8th game doing it and he still sucks. ?

[Fantasy Island]

Sally can't coach, and he has no passion.  I mean WTF?

Sally just resign, please?

[heymangold]

12 hours ago, Facts said:

It’s now his 8th game doing it and he still sucks. ?

Yet I’m sure you were all over his jock after the win against Cincy.  I’m by no means happy about the losses but it’s a young team with rookie coordinators and HC.  There’s bound to be ups and downs.  This team wasn’t going to win more then 5 games anyway.