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Zach needs to get the ball out quicker


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Zach has to look at the film and get his fundemental footwork and pocket awareness back.  He's not going to be lifted by the team.  He's the QB.  If he wants to be an elite NFL QB he has to pick himself up and keep his fundementals together and keep chucking the football.  

The cavalary isn't coming.  He's got to reload and fire from a sound platform when everything around him is failing apart.  He either figures it out or he doesn't.  

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1 minute ago, Maxman said:

I am more worried about the in game stuff for LaFleur. Since he is a rookie too I would like him to focusing on play calling for the next drive and not discussing too much on what Zach sees from the defense. Let someone else work on that.

Cool.  Dont think it really matters at the the end of the day when your team sucks this bad but fair enough.  Just not sure who you think that person should be.

And I could be wrong but I thought I read somewhere that Zach asked him to stay on the sidelines?  

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2 hours ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Ironically, that's one of the biggest reasons why Darnold is playing better in Carolina. Yes, their team is a lot better offensively, but you can tell they coached the crap out of him to improve his footwork and it's working.

Darnold improvement is due to the situation he's now in w/Carolina. Much superior organization, from the GM to the HC and the talent surrounding Sam. Carolina also has a defense. But, still remember that they only won 5 games last season.

I don't think Sam was fixed in the off season, just put in a situation where he could succeed. If Rhule did anything it was to take the Gase handcuffs off and design some plays that take advantage of Sam's skill set.

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2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I hate stats like these. Without a frame of reference it’s idiotic and means nothing.  

This is basically saying that all he has to do is get rid of the ball faster and he’ll be awesome.  So simple.  
Doesn’t take into account pass pressure or more importantly, is anyone F-ing OPEN!

It’s definitely not black and white. It’s more complicated and a multifaceted mess. The OL is horrid. Becton going down is a huge issue and we’re seeing it. GVR and McGovern SUCK. Fant is below average and Moses looks and plays older than sin. AVT has played better and that’s a positive. Our wr’s, supposedly the best crop we’ve had in years are running around like Electric Football circa 1963. Our #2 pick Mims is working in his GED and won’t be allowed on the field. WTF ?. And LaFleur is RUINING Wilson in warp speed time. It just looks worse each week instead of getting better. SMH ??‍♂️ 

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10 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I'm commenting objectively on a play/player/team that sucks.  You're making this personal.  Grow up or go away.

Personal?  Your cliche riddled attack of Wilson and Simms for having the nerve to believe Wilson has talent? Top that by Simms seeing more talent than the guy you wanted all along, even over Lawrence.  But I’m not objective here.  The reasons I am arent the same as yours only less so.  So you you go away. And grow up.  What makes you after lecturing me that Mahomes had good fundamentals and that Fields is better than every prospect have the balls to tell anyone to go away for not agreeing with your kindergarten level analysis of what you actually believe you saw of Wilson at BYU.  I’m still puzzled as to how you believe every single talent evaluator,  scout expert, ex player, QB  whatever failed to see the horrific mechanics and fundamentals you saw.  

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3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Personal?  Your cliche riddled attack of Wilson and Simms for having the nerve to believe Wilson has talent? Top that by Simms seeing more talent than the guy you wanted all along, even over Lawrence.  But I’m not objective here.  The reasons I am arent the same as yours only less so.  So you you go away. And grow up.  What makes you after lecturing me that Mahomes had good fundamentals and that Fields is better than every prospect have the balls to tell anyone to go away for not agreeing with your kindergarten level analysis of what you actually believe you saw of Wilson at BYU.  I’m still puzzled as to how you believe every single talent evaluator,  scout expert, ex player, QB  whatever failed to see the horrific mechanics and fundamentals you saw.  

Still making it personal.  Grow up or go away.  

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54 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Then explain to me why that wasn't an issue in week 1 (well, mostly not an issue)

I think he's simply playing timid.  Not saying that's a good thing, but just the reality.

Honestly, he was bad in the first. He played better in the second. As I daid it isn't  all his fault but he is making what I consider fundamental mistakes

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19 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Still making it personal.  Grow up or go away.  

You’re ability to see me making it personal when you are guilty of exactly that is comical.

An don’t tell me to go away, put me on ignore.  I’m not the child in the room.  You went for the big hero ball and and came up short

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41 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Zach has to look at the film and get his fundemental footwork and pocket awareness back.  He's not going to be lifted by the team.  He's the QB.  If he wants to be an elite NFL QB he has to pick himself up and keep his fundementals together and keep chucking the football.  

The cavalary isn't coming.  He's got to reload and fire from a sound platform when everything around him is failing apart.  He either figures it out or he doesn't.  

Great post! This is correct. 

Doesn't seem like Zach is going to get sidelined.  

Doesn't seem like he's going to get help from his OC or WR's or RB's or OL

We know, from the first game, that the fundamentals are there

He needs to suck it up, trust himself and go out there and become what he's dreamed about his whole life.

It's not going to be easy, but it's on him to get it done.  

I really don't care if he throws a gazillion INT's or they don't win a Fing game...get his fundamentals correct, footwork, stepping into his throw, making good reads etc.  Forget about everyone else around him...just go out and do his job.  everything will eventually fall in line if he does what he's supposed to do.

No excuses.

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9 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Honestly, he was bad in the first. He played better in the second. As I daid it isn't  all his fault but he is making what I consider fundamental mistakes

I guess we watched different games.

Week one, he made his drop backs - clean drops, stayed in the pocket, moved up into the pocket when it collapsed around him and stepped into his throws. Not always but it was certainly more often than not.

Past two weeks he hasn't been taking clean drop backs (sloppy footwork)...is bailing on the pocket almost immediately and constantly throwing off his back foot. It's night and day.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

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39 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Zach has to look at the film and get his fundemental footwork and pocket awareness back.  He's not going to be lifted by the team.  He's the QB.  If he wants to be an elite NFL QB he has to pick himself up and keep his fundementals together and keep chucking the football.  

The cavalary isn't coming.  He's got to reload and fire from a sound platform when everything around him is failing apart.  He either figures it out or he doesn't.  

Exactly.  Zack is a textbook example of a kid given a world of responsibility before being ready.   And let's make him a captain, too.  That made sense and would not heap more pressure on him.

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43 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I think it's worth noting that on the quick releases he's averaging 4.6 YPA and on the "holding the ball longer" plays he's averaging 6.6...

So it's not as simple as this, obviously. Completing quick passes for no yards isn't getting us anywhere.

Like I said, it’s not as simple as just throw the ball sooner. But I do think it’s worth noting that the longer plays are also resulting in a lot of bad outcomes.

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6 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Exactly.  Zack is a textbook example of a kid given a world of responsibility before being ready.   And let's make him a captain, too.  That made sense and would not heap more pressure on him.

He’s been training for this his entire life.  Now is his time.  The roster isn’t good, the coaching staff isn’t ready doesn’t matter.  This is his opportunity.  The truly great QBs figure out a way.  They are a force and if he’s one of them he has to seize the day.  He has the talent, he’s smart.  Can he endure the battle?  He’s not getting any help.  He has to have a strong will and trust his training.  

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17 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Exactly.  Zack is a textbook example of a kid given a world of responsibility before being ready.   And let's make him a captain, too.  That made sense and would not heap more pressure on him.

While I agree with this statement.

But it's also a text book example of a team putting a kid in this situation when the pieces around him weren't ready.

If this was a more stable franchise, with veteran players and a solid supporting cast - giving ZW starting QB responsibility would be totally understandable.  

but the sh*t show they threw him into is just downright disgraceful...and would almost be excusable if they didn't do that same exact ******* thing to the QB before him.

 

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6 minutes ago, Biggs said:

He’s been training for this his entire life.  Now is his time.  The roster isn’t good, the coaching staff isn’t ready doesn’t matter.  This is his opportunity.  The truly great QBs figure out a way.  They are a force and if he’s one of them he has to seize the day.  He has the talent, he’s smart.  Can he endure the battle?  He’s not getting any help.  He has to have a strong will and trust his training.  

Every QB that steps foot on a field has had similar training.  It becomes a matter of if they have the talent to take it past the college level and become a success in the NFL.

Right now, Zack Wilson does not project a player ready for the role.  Has the team and coaching contributed to this impression?  Absolutely.   But overall, he looks lost and ill-prepared to be a starting NFL QB.

Just now, FidelioJet said:

While I agree with this statement.

But it's also a text book example of a team putting a kid in this situation and the pieces around him weren't ready.

If this was a more stable franchise, with veteran players and a solid supporting cast - giving ZW starting QB responsibility would be totally understandable.  

but the sh*t show they threw him into is just downright disgraceful...and would almost be excusable if they didn't do that same exact ******* thing to the QB before him.

 

Could not have said it better.  Most of this potential QB disaster falls on JD and how we went into this season with almost no veteran presence.  The entire offense looks like a clown act.  Zack is just a helpless jester.

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37 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I guess we watched different games.

Week one, he made his drop backs - clean drops, stayed in the pocket, moved up into the pocket when it collapsed around him and stepped into his throws. Not always but it was certainly more often than not.

Past two weeks he hasn't been taking clean drop backs (sloppy footwork)...is bailing on the pocket almost immediately and constantly throwing off his back foot. It's night and day.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

I guess I don’t see the same games some do either.  

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25 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Every QB that steps foot on a field has had similar training.  It becomes a matter of if they have the talent to take it past the college level and become a success in the NFL.

Right now, Zack Wilson does not project a player ready for the role.  Has the team and coaching contributed to this impression?  Absolutely.   But overall, he looks lost and ill-prepared to be a starting NFL QB.

Could not have said it better.  Most of this potential QB disaster falls on JD and how we went into this season with almost no veteran presence.  The entire offense looks like a clown act.  Zack is just a helpless jester.

Zach is not every QB prospect.  He's got an amazingly live arm.  It's rare.  He's also highly committed to his kraft and puts in the time.  This is not every NFL QB prospect.  He is a rare prospect.  

My biggest concern about Zach right now is he's coachable and he's surrounded by coaches who will try and control him and will screw him up.   It's really about him figuring it out on his own.  He can't go to the coaches.  He has to look at his own tape and will himself to trust the work he already put in and let it fly.  

I could care less about him throwing INT's or going through his progressions.  I want to see that great foot work, the lack of fear to step up or get out if need be and let it go.  I don't care if he hits Corey Davis in the hands 10 times and he drops them or throws a few picks.  Get the footwork right, stop thinking let it go.  

All these coaches are trying to control every aspect of these players.  The coaches are protecting themselves.  Great players make plays, they aren't put in a box or controlled.  We drafted Zach because he has a very special arm and great fundemental footwork.  He has to use it.  

 

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1 minute ago, Biggs said:

Zach is not every QB prospect.  He's got an amazingly live arm.  It's rare.  He's also highly committed to his kraft and puts in the time.  This is not every NFL QB prospect.  He is a rare prospect.  

 

I'll take your word on this.  Right now, I don't see it.  Hope we eventually do.  

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2 hours ago, Biggs said:

Zach has to look at the film and get his fundemental footwork and pocket awareness back.  He's not going to be lifted by the team.  He's the QB.  If he wants to be an elite NFL QB he has to pick himself up and keep his fundementals together and keep chucking the football.  

 He's got to reload and fire from a sound platform when everything around him is failing apart.    

In 1.7 seconds?

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1 minute ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Tampa Bay was the much better team that day.  The Chiefs don't sniff a SB win and get to a second one without Mahomes being Mahomes and balling.  He went down fighting his way.  

You can't win every hand in poker when the other guy is pulling full houses every hand.  Even though poker is a game of skill.  

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2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Personal?  Your cliche riddled attack of Wilson and Simms for having the nerve to believe Wilson has talent? Top that by Simms seeing more talent than the guy you wanted all along, even over Lawrence.  But I’m not objective here.  The reasons I am arent the same as yours only less so.  So you you go away. And grow up.  What makes you after lecturing me that Mahomes had good fundamentals and that Fields is better than every prospect have the balls to tell anyone to go away for not agreeing with your kindergarten level analysis of what you actually believe you saw of Wilson at BYU.  I’m still puzzled as to how you believe every single talent evaluator,  scout expert, ex player, QB  whatever failed to see the horrific mechanics and fundamentals you saw.  

Kids clueless

youre wasting keystrokes 

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3 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Tampa Bay was the much better team that day.  The Chiefs don't sniff a SB win and get to a second one without Mahomes being Mahomes and balling.  He went down fighting his way.  

You can't win every hand in poker when the other guy is pulling full houses every hand.  Even though poker is a game of skill.  

This is a poem and has nothing to do with my point.

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I had a conversation with my mentor after the recent loss, and he was noting that the hype about friction in the locker room and among coaching staff is wildly overblown.  GVR is actually one of Zach's closest friends in the locker room as they are both ideologically pretty similar despite the slight age gap.  Among other things, GVR has been pitching Zach on buying a place in Suffolk County.  The rest of what he said was pretty banal or I already said it in another forum (e.g., that staff worried about Moore's ability to translate practice performance to game day performance).  Also I wouldn't be too worried about LaFleur for now.  Sure the offense looks awful, but they are still installing new stuff and play calling probably improves by week 10.     

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Just now, Gastineau Lives said:

This is a poem and has nothing to do with my point.

Don't blame me if you didn't get to it.  QB's in the NFL make plays with big time pass rushes and no time to throw all the time.  They also make pass rushing teams pay.  The NFL isn't a static game.  It's a game of adjustments.  

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1 minute ago, Biggs said:

Don't blame me if you didn't get to it.  QB's in the NFL make plays with big time pass rushes and no time to throw all the time.  They also make pass rushing teams pay.  The NFL isn't a static game.  It's a game of adjustments.  

You said the great ones "find a way". Well, Mahomes had more time to throw to better weapons in a better system with three years of football in that system and in the NFL under his belt and a 400 million dollar contract and being universally recognized as the best QB in football and he didn't even come close to finding a way, so your standards would seem to be higher for Wilson than Mahomes.

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1 minute ago, Gastineau Lives said:

You said the great ones "find a way". Well, Mahomes had more time to throw to better weapons in a better system with three years of football in that system and in the NFL under his belt and a 400 million dollar contract and being universally recognized as the best QB in football and he didn't even come close to finding a way, so your standards would seem to be higher for Wilson than Mahomes.

39 and 10 Regular season

6 and 2 post season

League MVP No. 1 out of 1 hundred SB MVP

I love Zach but if he doesn't find a way he's going to have a very tough few years before he's either hurt, traded or out of the league.  

 

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8 minutes ago, Biggs said:

39 and 10 Regular season

6 and 2 post season

League MVP No. 1 out of 1 hundred SB MVP

I love Zach but if he doesn't find a way he's going to have a very tough few years before he's either hurt, traded or out of the league.  

 

0-1 in games where he had the same amount of time to throw the football as Zach has had all year. This is not a coincidence.

You're asking a rookie right out of the gate to "make it work" but yet completely ignoring the fact that the guy with all the credentials you just mentioned couldn't even do it in the one game he was asked to.

By the way, thanks for not turning this into me comparing Zach Wilson to Pat Mahomes. That would be exhausting.

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4 hours ago, JiFapono said:

Honestly, the in game stuff means very little to me.  He's not going to the sidelines, talking to someone and then a light goes off and it's fixed and we see the results immediately.  That doesnt happen.  It's like trying to fix your golf swing on hole 12.  That is not the time. 

Zach's footwork, pocket presence, decision making, holding the ball to long and passion for playing hero ball was on full display in college and everyone praised him for it!  The nonsensical talking head morons of the world, like Chris Simms were too busy comparing him to Mahomes because of the off script, the off platform, yada yada yada and not focused on his enormous flaws.  Clearly this regime fell for it, hook, line and sinker because it doesnt seem like anyone is even discussing how completely jacked up he is fundamentally.  Legit, I've never heard once Lil Mikey or anyone else talk about what they're working on with Zach.  Say what you will about former regimes, getting Sam fundamentally sound is all you heard about leading up to week 1 of his rookie season; the wind up, the foot work, etc.   I've heard none of that with this regime and Zach is arguably more of a mess.

 

 

We need to add an orgasm button for posts like this. 

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