***OFFICIAL SOLUTIONS THREAD*** How would YOU solve the Jets problems?

[Snell41]

Yeah your spot on . Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields are excelling this year .... wake the f up man... Zach has the most talent brah.

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Lawrence and Fields have nothing to do with it, other Thant the fact they were also part of the worst QB in draft class in quite some time. Lawrence was the only QB with a resume to be taken in the first round. Elf boy was fighting for his starting job in his last season because prior to that he pretty much sucked. He had one good season against pisspoor competition and suddenly he’s an NFL savior? No, I’m not buying it. My eyes did not buy him at BYU and all I’m seeing now is exactly what I expected. Elf boy sucks.


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[dbatesman]

6 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

But yeah, you're probably right. I'm sure the Jets know better how to develop a rookie quarterback than teams like the Patriots* with Mac & Cheese, the 49ers with Trey Lance, or the Bears with Justin Fields. Or every other franchise who has successfully developed a rookie quarterback, for that matter. The Bills are probably kicking themselves for not just rolling with Late Nate Peterman when Josh was a rookie. 

The Jets know dick-all about anything having to do with quarterbacks. This still isn’t an argument, None of those quarterbacks has actually developed. Mac Jones has started three games, Trey Lance is a pumped-up Taysom Hill, and Justin Fields just played one of the worst games in the history of the sport.

What does Matt Barkley know about playing football that Nathan Peterman doesn’t?

[Larz]

Have the owners tell the GM that winning games is actually expected would be a good start 

 

[68JET11]

17 hours ago, Beerfish said:

LaFleur and to a lesser extend Saleh need to step back and adjust their systems to get the most out of their players.

Love that line... Don't hate Saleh, or LaFleur, but can they show some flexibility geezzzzz....  The mark of a great coach is to do exactly what you said.

[Rocky Landing]

44 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

The Jets know dick-all about anything having to do with quarterbacks. This still isn’t an argument, None of those quarterbacks has actually developed. Mac Jones has started three games, Trey Lance is a pumped-up Taysom Hill, and Justin Fields just played one of the worst games in the history of the sport.

What does Matt Barkley know about playing football that Nathan Peterman doesn’t?

Late Nate Peterman could now be considered a vet, I suppose. He couldn't be in '18.

Honestly, I've never seen a rookie quarterback asked to start a season with less support, on the field, or on the sideline, than Zach Wilson. And watch which QBs from this class develop, and which ones bust. You don't think a vet presence would help Zach Wilson? I think that's crazy. After three games, Mac Jones is head and shoulders above Wilson. Obviously, Jones being surrounded by veterans throughout the process is not the only reason he is progressing. It's just another part of the formula that the Jets are ignoring.

[dbatesman]

13 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Honestly, I've never seen a rookie quarterback asked to start a season with less support, on the field, or on the sideline, than Zach Wilson. And watch which QBs from this class develop, and which ones bust. You don't think a vet presence would help Zach Wilson? I think that's crazy. After three games, Mac Jones is head and shoulders above Wilson. Obviously, Jones being surrounded by veterans throughout the process is not the only reason he is progressing. It's just another part of the formula that the Jets are ignoring.

How many wins would the Jets have if everything else was the same, but we signed Brian Hoyer? How many more TDs and fewer interceptions would Wilson have?

[playtowinthegame]

16 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

How many wins would the Jets have if everything else was the same, but we signed Brian Hoyer? How many more TDs and fewer interceptions would Wilson have?

Jets never should have started Wilson this year. They should have signed a veteran and sat Wilson from the start, and maybe get him in a game towards the last quarter of the season like the Chiefs did with Mahomes...and that Chiefs 2017 team was much better than our 2021 Jets. Chiefs won 10 games and made the playoffs in Mahomes "redshirt" rookie season. Jets as currently constructed look like the worst team in football after 3 games. It's borderline gross negligence how the Jets have handled Wilson thus far.

[Albaniajet]

17 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

If the QB is horrible defenses can stack 8 in the box and run blitz all day

[dbatesman]

18 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Jets never should have started Wilson this year. They should have signed a veteran and sat Wilson from the start, and maybe get him in a game towards the last quarter of the season like the Chiefs did with Mahomes...and that Chiefs 2017 team was much better than our 2021 Jets. Chiefs won 10 games and made the playoffs in Mahomes "redshirt" rookie season. Jets as currently constructed look like the worst team in football after 3 games. It's borderline gross negligence how the Jets have handled Wilson thus far.

Signing a veteran to start over Wilson is fine. It’s also a very different proposition than signing a veteran whose veteranness will somehow make Wilson better through osmosis

[Integrity28]

So many great ideas in this thread. 

[Dunnie]

[Rocky Landing]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

How many wins would the Jets have if everything else was the same, but we signed Brian Hoyer? How many more TDs and fewer interceptions would Wilson have?

Straw man argument. 

The question should be: Would Wilson be developing better with Hoyer on the sidelines going over the looks the opposing D was showing, how to recognize their coverages, how they pressured him, and how to better avoid it, etc?

Or, perhaps it's better to have Mike White sitting there with nothing to contribute? Seriously, you're just being stubborn. Your argument of "eh, the vet probably doesn't matter..." is in direct contrast to every other rookie quarterback being developed in the league for as long as I can remember.

And to your straw man argument above-- maybe if Wilson had Hoyer's support on the sideline, he might have made a touchdown in the last two games? Maybe a couple fewer sacks? Maybe a couple fewer interceptions?

[dbatesman]

28 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Straw man argument. 

The question should be: Would Wilson be developing better with Hoyer on the sidelines going over the looks the opposing D was showing, how to recognize their coverages, how they pressured him, and how to better avoid it, etc?

Or, perhaps it's better to have Mike White sitting there with nothing to contribute? Seriously, you're just being stubborn. Your argument of "eh, the vet probably doesn't matter..." is in direct contrast to every other rookie quarterback being developed in the league for as long as I can remember.

And to your straw man argument above-- maybe if Wilson had Hoyer's support on the sideline, he might have made a touchdown in the last two games? Maybe a couple fewer sacks? Maybe a couple fewer interceptions?

That’s not what straw man means, but in any event I’m not making an argument at all, straw man or otherwise; you are (that veteran backups make a significant and discernable difference in the performance and development of young quarterbacks). I’m simply asking you to substantiate it with anything beyond “it’s what teams do, also Matt Barkley and Josh Allen seem like friends.” Now that you have, I want to be clear: you’re suggesting that by sitting next to Brian Hoyer, Zach Wilson would have an extra touchdown, two fewer sacks, and two fewer interceptions in three games? You’re suggesting that simply by sitting there veteraning, Brian Hoyer is worth nearly six extra touchdowns, eleven fewer sacks, and eleven fewer interceptions over the course of a season?

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, playtowinthegame said:

Jets never should have started Wilson this year. They should have signed a veteran and sat Wilson from the start, and maybe get him in a game towards the last quarter of the season like the Chiefs did with Mahomes...and that Chiefs 2017 team was much better than our 2021 Jets. Chiefs won 10 games and made the playoffs in Mahomes "redshirt" rookie season. Jets as currently constructed look like the worst team in football after 3 games. It's borderline gross negligence how the Jets have handled Wilson thus far.

1.  The Chiefs being better is exactly why they sat Mahomes.  They had a real QB.  They made the playoffs.  You sit your young talent when the mistakes they will make may cost you the postseason.  Not when they will be the difference between losing 24-6 and 24-0.  

2  Borderline gross negligence?  What in the ever loving **** are you talking about?   There are 3 teams doing the same thing right now.  Last year, the Chargers, and Bengals.  I am glad that you think the Dolphins and Bears have handled things so much better, but I tend to think the world does not agree 

[Rocky Landing]

17 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

That’s not what straw man means, but in any event I’m not making an argument at all, straw man or otherwise; you are (that veteran backups make a significant and discernable difference in the performance and development of young quarterbacks). I’m simply asking you to substantiate it with anything beyond “it’s what teams do, also Matt Barkley and Josh Allen seem like friends.” Now that you have, I want to be clear: you’re suggesting that by sitting next to Brian Hoyer, Zach Wilson would have an extra touchdown, two fewer sacks, and two fewer interceptions in three games? You’re suggesting that simply by sitting there veteraning, Brian Hoyer is worth nearly six extra touchdowns, eleven fewer sacks, and eleven fewer interceptions over the course of a season?

"A straw man (sometimes written as strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the real subject of the argument was not addressed or refuted, but instead replaced with a false one." (from Wikipedia)

Be that as it may, did you even read the post you're responding to?  Like the part where I write: "with Hoyer on the sidelines going over the looks the opposing D was showing, how to recognize their coverages, how they pressured him, and how to better avoid it, etc?" Do you honestly think that sort of knowledge isn't useful, during a game, to a developing quarterback? Seriously?

[dbatesman]

16 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

"A straw man (sometimes written as strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the real subject of the argument was not addressed or refuted, but instead replaced with a false one." (from Wikipedia)

Be that as it may, did you even read the post you're responding to?  Like the part where I write: "with Hoyer on the sidelines going over the looks the opposing D was showing, how to recognize their coverages, how they pressured him, and how to better avoid it, etc?" Do you honestly think that sort of knowledge isn't useful, during a game, to a developing quarterback? Seriously?

I’ve made it abundantly clear that I don’t.

btw, I noticed you didn’t address my question about Hoyer being worth five-plus TDs per year. Are you going to do that, or are you going to ignore it and answer an entirely different question even as you quote the Wikipedia definition of straw man argument with no apparent sense of irony?

[Rocky Landing]

8 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I’ve made it abundantly clear that I don’t.

btw, I noticed you didn’t address my question about Hoyer being worth five-plus TDs per year. Are you going to do that, or are you going to ignore it and answer an entirely different question even as you quote the Wikipedia definition of straw man argument with no apparent sense of irony?

I didn't address your question about "Hoyer being worth five-plus TDs per year," because that is the straw man you are pursuing. Such a number is an un-knowable quantity. It's purely speculative. That being said, if Wilson were being properly developed, then yes, he would make more TDs. That seems blisteringly obvious.

It also seems blisteringly obvious that having someone like Hoyer going over the immediately previous plays, coverages, defensive looks, etc. is valuable information for a rookie quarterback who's learning on the job. Do you think such knowledge might lead to more TDs? I certainly do. And if you don't understand why such knowledge would be valuable, or why someone like Hoyer would have a better understanding of such things than Mike White, or what the hell QBs are doing when they're going over images on the team iPad between series, then there's really no point in going any further.

[dbatesman]

32 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I didn't address your question about "Hoyer being worth five-plus TDs per year," because that is the straw man you are pursuing. Such a number is an un-knowable quantity. It's purely speculative. That being said, if Wilson were being properly developed, then yes, he would make more TDs. That seems blisteringly obvious.

It also seems blisteringly obvious that having someone like Hoyer going over the immediately previous plays, coverages, defensive looks, etc. is valuable information for a rookie quarterback who's learning on the job. Do you think such knowledge might lead to more TDs? I certainly do. And if you don't understand why such knowledge would be valuable, or why someone like Hoyer would have a better understanding of such things than Mike White, or what the hell QBs are doing when they're going over images on the team iPad between series, then there's really no point in going any further.

It’s not a straw man I’m pursuing. I asked for a number and that’s what you provided. But maybe I’m not smart enough to grasp something so blisteringly (?) obvious. 

[Jetsfan80]

59 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I didn't address your question about "Hoyer being worth five-plus TDs per year," because that is the straw man you are pursuing. Such a number is an un-knowable quantity. It's purely speculative. That being said, if Wilson were being properly developed, then yes, he would make more TDs. That seems blisteringly obvious.

It also seems blisteringly obvious that having someone like Hoyer going over the immediately previous plays, coverages, defensive looks, etc. is valuable information for a rookie quarterback who's learning on the job. Do you think such knowledge might lead to more TDs? I certainly do. And if you don't understand why such knowledge would be valuable, or why someone like Hoyer would have a better understanding of such things than Mike White, or what the hell QBs are doing when they're going over images on the team iPad between series, then there's really no point in going any further.

 

Please quantify how Josh McCown helped Sam Darnold's development, please.  And do the same thing for Mark Sanchez when he had Mark Brunell.  Or Josh McCown when he had both Sam Bradford and Mike Glennon in Arizona.  

Also let us know how Justin Fields is doing with Andy Dalton on the sidelines.  

Just because there's some value to having a "veteran mentor" doesn't mean it actually does much of anything for a QB's productivity on the field. 

The primary value a backup QB brings to the team is largely in what he does on the field when his name is called.  Not what leadery leader things he does with young QB's.  

[Snell41]

How many wins would the Jets have if everything else was the same, but we signed Brian Hoyer? How many more TDs and fewer interceptions would Wilson have?

If Hoyer was starting? We’d be 2-1 right now.


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[JazzyJet]

23 hours ago, TerrapinJet said:

This is the official position. Have a nice day. Let me know how youd solve it. 

My New Plan:

1) Fire GM and all coaches

2) Hire Tanny to GM, Rex to HC, Mangini to OC (or DC whatever) and Bart Scott to DC (in charge of discipline and attitude), Herm Edwards as Chief People Officer/ Motivational Speech giver

3) Fill out the rest of the staff with Pennington as QB Coach, Testaverde as passing game coordinator, Revis as DB Coach, CuMar as RB Coach, Mangold as O-line coach,or Mawae if he says no. Cotchery and Coles for WR coach duo. Chrebet as slot WR/ catching consultant. Vilma as tackling coach, Kris Jenkins/ Shaun Ellis as DL coach.

4) Use first 5 picks on o-line next year, and all the other picks on TEs - one of them as to work out.

5) Change back to old uniforms

6) Enjoy the superbowl run.

[Rocky Landing]

46 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Please quantify how Josh McCown helped Sam Darnold's development, please.  And do the same thing for Mark Sanchez when he had Mark Brunell.  Or Josh McCown when he had both Sam Bradford and Mike Glennon in Arizona.  

Also let us know how Justin Fields is doing with Andy Dalton on the sidelines.  

Just because there's some value to having a "veteran mentor" doesn't mean it actually does much of anything for a QB's productivity on the field. 

The primary value a backup QB brings to the team is largely in what he does on the field when his name is called.  Not what leadery leader things he does with young QB's.  

Quantify? No. It's a non-sensical request, because you can't say definitively what would have happened had any of those quarterbacks been left to run an NFL offense, as rookies, without the support of an experienced QB on the sidelines. (Although, we can certainly see how poorly Zach Wilson is doing, left spinning in the wind).

What we can do is qualify how vet quarterbacks help develop their rookie counterparts. You can see it with your own eyes on game day, when the two quarterbacks are sitting on the sidelines going over the previous series on the team iPad.

Imaging being a rookie quarterback, going three and out, and then immediately afterward having an experienced veteran showing you images of the plays you had just run, and showing you what went wrong, what you could have done differently, what tells the defense had shown that you missed? 

dbatesman above used the example of Brian Hoyer, because he is currently filling that role for Mac Jones with the Patriots*. Hoyer has thrown over 1,500 passes in 70 games over 12 years. When Mac & Cheese walks to the sideline after a series, who do you think would have better insights into what had just transpired on the field? Hoyer, or Mike White, who has not played a single snap in a regular season game?

I'm absolutely stunned with the assertion that such real-time insights would not have any value for a rookie quarterback's development, and that isn't even touching on the value of a vet mentor during practices. 

And literally, for all the world to see, is the perfect illustration of exactly how not to develop a rookie quarterback in what the Jets are doing with Zach Wilson. Mind-boggling.

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

My plan

Step 1 sell the team

Step 2  move said team to London

Step 3 change the name to werewolves 

Step 4 play this song 24/7 

Step 5 profit

 

[Jetsfan80]

15 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Quantify? No. It's a non-sensical request, because you can't say definitively what would have happened had any of those quarterbacks been left to run an NFL offense, as rookies, without the support of an experienced QB on the sidelines.

Exactly.  You can't quantify it, and meanwhile I can provide anecdotal evidence (I.E. lots of young QB's who failed despite veteran mentors on the sidelines), so it probably doesn't matter a whole lot.

[Rocky Landing]

11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Exactly.  You can't quantify it, and meanwhile I can provide anecdotal evidence (I.E. lots of young QB's who failed despite veteran mentors on the sidelines), so it probably doesn't matter a whole lot.

You actually consider "lots of young QB's who failed despite veteran mentors on the sidelines" as anecdotal evidence that vet mentorship has no value in developing a rookie? You're being serious?

[GreenReaper]

On 9/28/2021 at 12:46 PM, SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN said:

SELL WOODY SELL

?

The Johnson's are clueless owners.  And because of them...

Sadly...this will always result in no guarantee the next bunch up at the plate to swing for GM-HC...will ever work out better then what Jets fans are happy to have just been rid of.

It's most likely to be another endless circle-jerk all over again.  

 

[JohnnyLV]

8 hours ago, Snell41 said:

Lawrence and Fields have nothing to do with it, other Thant the fact they were also part of the worst QB in draft class in quite some time. Lawrence was the only QB with a resume to be taken in the first round. Elf boy was fighting for his starting job in his last season because prior to that he pretty much sucked. He had one good season against pisspoor competition and suddenly he’s an NFL savior? No, I’m not buying it. My eyes did not buy him at BYU and all I’m seeing now is exactly what I expected. Elf boy sucks.


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You are welcome to any opinion you want but almost none of that is actually factual

[ZachStepdad]

Hire Rex Ryan on the agreement that he gains 200 more pounds and brings in an elite experienced offensive staff

[joewilly12]

Solution 

 

[Snell41]

You are welcome to any opinion you want but almost none of that is actually factual

Nonsense. Show me one article prior to the 2020 college season that had Zach Wilson as a top NFL QB prospect. He was in a QB battle against the likes of Jaren Hall to start the season. He’s a product of one flash in the pan season against poor competition and a media driven frenzy to make the draft a vehicle for entertainment and as such bloats the value of QB’s, and because there are not 32 people on the planet that can play QB at a truly high level, desperate teams take desperate chances. I will be flat out disgusted if Zach is the starter next year, he has no ******* clue what he’s doing out there. None.


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[kevinc855]

I think JD thought he had Justin Herbert when they made the ill informed decision to roll with Zach from Day 1 with literally no one else. By the way the Chargers had Tyrod Taylor to backup Herbert. JD seems to be the only guy in the league to think this is a smart idea. Maybe hes smarter then all of us but I doubt it. 

Well, Wilson is not showing Justin Herbert signs because Herbert had a much better team around him. You cant give a rookie QB this roster and expect them to be Justin Herbert. The chargers won 7 games in 2020! How many are we going to win? Exactly. 

[Jet Nut]

On 9/28/2021 at 2:28 PM, Jet Nut said:

What exactly does Saleh do, that you've seen in your estimation after all of 3 games that qualifies him as worse than Gase or Katie?  Really, give examples, did the team quit, has he bungled the clock, has he punted when he should have gone for it, I'm curious because other than a lack of talent I cant figure out what hes done to catch blame, never mind this level of nonsense

@Fantasy Island?  Answer the question.  Go for it, there has to be more going on in your brain other than to throw neg reps where only the clueless would.  What was objectionable?  Where!
Think fast

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Rocky Landing said:

You actually consider "lots of young QB's who failed despite veteran mentors on the sidelines" as anecdotal evidence that vet mentorship has no value in developing a rookie? You're being serious?

Correct.  If you're going to make the claim that veteran mentors help rookie QB's more than your standard backup QB, you need to actually be able to make a case with some evidence. 

Since there are a lot of young QB's who succeeded and failed with or without the help of a veteran mentor, the onus on you is to provide the proof that your claim carries merit.  Saying "JOSH MCCOWN HELPS WAY MORE THAN MIKE WHITE EVER COULD BECAUSE HE'S BEEN DOING THIS SO LONG" really isn't enough.  

[JohnnyLV]

32 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

 

Nonsense. Show me one article prior to the 2020 college season that had Zach Wilson as a top NFL QB prospect. He was in a QB battle against the likes of Jaren Hall to start the season. He’s a product of a good senior season against poor competition and a media driven frenzy to make the draft a vehicle for entertainment and as such bloats the value of QB’s, and because there are not 32 people on the planet that can play QB at a truly high level, desperate teams take desperate chances. I will be flat out disgusted if Zach is the starter next year, he has no ******* clue what he’s doing out there. None.


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Well he will be the QB for at least 3 years. Better buckle up. You could not be more deluded to think Zach was not a worthy 1st round QB prospect.

[Ex-Rex]

On 9/28/2021 at 1:48 PM, Saul Goodman said:

Could start by hiring a quarterback coach and/or passing game coordinator. Losing Knapp was a huge blow to Zach, and the entire team really.
 

Next offseason bring in a veteran QB to help mentor Zach (I don't think it would be good timing to sign one now with the season in progress). 

Losing Knapp hurt the entire offense. A rookie HC hiring a first year OC - no matter who his brother is - was a very dumb move and doomed to failure. Right now the only thing we can do is hope he gets better. Changing the HC, GM and /or OC will only set the team back even more. Jets may not win a game this season because LaFleur calls a poor game offensively right now. A veteran QB could be a big help because ZW talking to LaFleur on the sideline may only tend to confuse him more.