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Could JD get axed by year's end? How is he different than Idzik who lasted just a year?


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1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

No but he's on the hot seat entering next season.

The reality is whether fans like it or not, JD pitched a 3 year plan to this ownership that including trading anything of value, hiring a rookie HC, and drafting a QB #2 overall.  When you gut a roster to accumulate picks, ownership is going to let you see it through.  JD received approval to trade Adams and Darnold and part of the pitch why, was it's going to help acquire assets in the future to make the team better.  You dont abandon the plan because 3 games into a destined to be ugly season is, well, ugly.  This was all expected, like it or not. 

I think we are high if we think the guy before signing the contract 3 years ago was like "we are going to be so bad we will be getting outscored 46-3 in the first half" 3 SEASONS FROM NOW

I remain convinced this is actually NOT going to plan. I dont think anyone expected this team to be this bad, to include JD. He made some major errors. If you are all cool with driving the truck off the clif......then ok?

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Woody knew the plan thats why JD got a 6 yr contract and not the normal 4 for 1st time GMs. Idzik got 2 years not one. his first year was 8-8 and after that he didnt  sign any FAs. i forget the e

It's all Maccagnan's fault.   

No but he's on the hot seat entering next season. The reality is whether fans like it or not, JD pitched a 3 year plan to this ownership that including trading anything of value, hiring a rookie

32 minutes ago, JazzyJet said:

3 games? 3 GAMES? At this point we'd be lucky to be within one score of any other team by halftime. 

The jags and Texans are winnable games. If we are lucky enough to get the colts with Wenz injured

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3 hours ago, ScouserJet said:

 Becton going down was a killer, but even then We were still open as.

Becton had a plethora of nagging injuries, weight issues, concussion sustained during practice, and just absolute nothing before Week 1. Injured during first game while masquerading as a matador. 

All this after one of the more promising rookie seasons in the league last year as a beast LT.

It's barely addressed but this is as damaging a storyline as there is on the Jets this season - look at how this exposed our OL. Where is the accountability for unprepared players? Is it ever on them?

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1 hour ago, 68JET11 said:

My main problem with JD right now is that he is too cheap sometimes, or spends money in the wrong places or the wrong people. This was the year to spend more on the OL, and we went for cheap (Feeney), instead of Thuney, or Lindsley, The correct move even if he didn't want to spend for Thuney was to get Lindsley and move McGovern to RG. He also needs to get into Becton's ear, and tell it like it is.

"Dude, I drafted you 11th overall and you had better pick up the pace and play like a first rounder, or I'm going to move you to RT, or even trade your ass". 

Let's get some balls out of our GM or coaching staff for once is my main concern. You can treat them like men and stop coddling them. I like playing most of the youngsters and watching them grow, what I can't stand is the watching the QB, the most important position on the field regress because he's running for his life. That needs to be fixed RIGHT NOW. 

you got to be realistic too with the FAs.

Thuney wasn't picking us over KC. Lindsey went to the Chargers. another team much better than us. plus the weather helped to. going from freezing GB to LA. 

its not that simple to just throws tons of money at people. sometimes its other things. plus with a salary cap we cant blow anyone away like the Yankees do. 

Becton needs to play better. but he picked the best Guard in the draft. then sign Moses which every one of us wanted. you would think 3 out of 5 is good enough to for now. i honestly think its this zone blocking scheme. if you look at the tape these guys up the middle aren't even being touched.

it might be a coaching thing with this line.

 

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the job of the gm is to put together a team that is competitive and a team that wins games -Joe has failed miserably at  his job

the Mims debacle alone should be cause for termination- a high draft pick that cant get on the field  on a team with a dire need for a player with his "skills"-. Drafting Morgan a guy that everybody knew would not play for the Jets with holes all over is another strike for Joe.   Signing Coleman to be our RB1 after he washed out with his last two teams should be strike three and I could go on and on. 

Joe will not be fired this year and Joe will not be fired next year-just accept it as painful as it is 

 

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So far Douglas has shown that nothing matters unless you can draft really well. (As most of us know regarding GM's)

Mccagnan was a joke with no plan throwing darts against a wall.

Idzik and Douglas both had plans, followed those plans, executed those plans and then fell flat on their face at the draft table.

 

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1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

So far Douglas has shown that nothing matters unless you can draft really well. (As most of us know regarding GM's)

Mccagnan was a joke with no plan throwing darts against a wall.

Idzik and Douglas both had plans, followed those plans, executed those plans and then fell flat on their face at the draft table.

 

especially true when your plan is to "build through the draft"

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2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

No but he's on the hot seat entering next season.

The reality is whether fans like it or not, JD pitched a 3 year plan to this ownership that including trading anything of value, hiring a rookie HC, and drafting a QB #2 overall.  When you gut a roster to accumulate picks, ownership is going to let you see it through.  JD received approval to trade Adams and Darnold and part of the pitch why, was it's going to help acquire assets in the future to make the team better.  You dont abandon the plan because 3 games into a destined to be ugly season is, well, ugly.  This was all expected, like it or not. 

Agree with this.

The comparison to Idzik is an interesting one. As others have pointed out, Idzik got two years not one. And Douglas has only had two drafts, same as Idzik.

Idzik also laid the groundwork for Maccagnan to turn the team into a short-term contender by leaving cap space and assets, which is what Douglas has done.

The difference is that in year three Maccagnan spent a ton on a roster that was completely devoid of talent and that spending hamstrung the franchise because you don’t  build a good team in FA - you supplement for sure.

No franchise hits on all draft picks. The roster and drafts look worse right now because Douglas isn’t really spending on FA’s beyond to band aid and put a team together. His draft picks are being put in positions to play and results are mixed.

I do think they’re better than the Idzik drafts thus far. He’s potentially hit on some day three defenders. Early picks certainly have been mixed largely due to the inconsistency of the players. He’s also switched schemes he was drafting for midway through.

The teams that draft well don’t hit on all their picks, but they have a lot of them and a competent roster to allow for gradual growth of those players and letting go of misses. At best the Jets won’t be in that situation for a while.

All that said the results have been really, really bad. Of all the errors, the biggest mistake IMO was drafting and playing a young quarterback in a situation that was obviously going to be disastrous. If they signed a veteran and committed to redshirting Wilson before taking next offseason to make a big step forward with the supporting cast I’d feel differently about this season and Douglas. Huge miss.

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I dont think the team is as grotesque as it looks now and suspect they'll gradually look better as the year goes on.

This FO and coaching staff is here through next season at a minimum and things would have to continue to look like the first 3 weeks for them to be on any real kind of hot seat.

All I know is If Zach busts and Sam prospers that will be up there with the worst decisions a Jet GM has ever made.  If not the worst. 

Still shocked that he didn't bring in a vet QB to start this year while Zippy sat and learned.

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44 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

If the rest of the Jets season is as bad as the first 3 games and Zach Wilson looks like his psyche has been ruined in his rookie season, then I believe Joe Douglas needs to be held accountable and fired before he gets his hands on those precious draft picks/cap space. Only way you keep Joe is if you neuter him by hiring a President of Football operations he has to report to, like he's back working for Howie Roseman in Philly.

Isnt he reporting to Elhai? 

I think the results are clouding our perspective here a little bit.  For the most part, collectively, we were all very excited about the structure and approach.  Owners > President of Operations > GM > HC.   We all loved the aggressive offseason focused on offense; Davis, Cole and Kroft, 4 picks on offense in the draft and 2 years in a row the 1st and 2nd round picks were offense.  1st round OL selections back to back drafts, restructured Crowder, he signed Moses when he came available.  I really dont remember anyone around here poking holes in the approach.  The results are terrible but this is what we all wanted.  Build around Zach and nobody doubted that 5 weeks ago.  There are 14 games left for them to turn it around.  I think we need to see the full body of work before we get all quick with the trigger.

Again, this season was never about wins and losses, nobody reasonable expected them to hit the ground running, it's always been about growing and improving as the season goes on.  I think we need to be patient and let it play out.

 

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10 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Isnt he reporting to Elhai? 

I think the results are clouding our perspective here a little bit.  For the most part, collectively, we were all very excited about the structure and approach.  Owners > President of Operations > GM > HC.   We all loved the aggressive offseason focused on offense; Davis, Cole and Kroft, 4 picks on offense in the draft and 2 years in a row the 1st and 2nd round picks were offense.  1st round OL selections back to back drafts, restructured Crowder, he signed Moses when he came available.  I really dont remember anyone around here poking holes in the approach.  The results are terrible but this is what we all wanted.  Build around Zach and nobody doubted that 5 weeks ago.  There are 14 games left for them to turn it around.  I think we need to see the full body of work before we get all quick with the trigger.

Again, this season was never about wins and losses, nobody reasonable expected them to hit the ground running, it's always been about growing and improving as the season goes on.  I think we need to be patient and let it play out.

 

Agree. But is this happening? First game vs. Panthers was actually a fairly competitive game. We lost but it wasn’t a blowout. 2nd game vs. Pats was riddled with turnovers, sloppy and non- competitive. Very disappointing. 3rd game was embarrassing. Getting blown out by a team like the Broncos who are in themselves rebuilding and not showing up at all. They are getting progressively worse. This is whats alarming. And IMO, this falls on LaFleur. The offense is just putrid and weighing down the defense. And it just doesn’t look like it’s going to change other than get worse. 

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23 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Perhaps we should replace our GM, Head Coach, Coaching Staff and Starting QB every time we lose a game.

That would surely work, right?  

 

Monday morning wisdom, repeat ad infinitum.  

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2 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

I think we are high if we think the guy before signing the contract 3 years ago was like "we are going to be so bad we will be getting outscored 46-3 in the first half" 3 SEASONS FROM NOW

I remain convinced this is actually NOT going to plan. I dont think anyone expected this team to be this bad, to include JD. He made some major errors. If you are all cool with driving the truck off the clif......then ok?

Obviously he didnt pitch what we're seeing, KevyKev but what we're seeing doesnt negate the vision/plan.  It's 3 games, only knee jerk fans talk about firing people after 3 games of 17 game season.  This entire year was all about improving week to week.  If by the end of the season you dont see significant improvement and you're feeling somewhat discouraged about how the season ended, then you turn the heat up but nothing is happening because of 3 games.

And yes, fwiw, I 100% expected it to be this bad.  It's confusing to me that anyone expected different, quite honestly.  Dont fall a victim to this stupid, week to week analysis garbage.  It's dumb.

 

 

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6 hours ago, JETSY14 said:

He got rid of Darnold who is 3 and 0 bc his new team  surrounded him with weapons

Our #1 wr is really a #2 and our top wr is Berrios. 

Mims (2nd round), Moore (2nd round) and Carter (4th round) are JD's handpicked weapons and who he believes (believed?) will generate robust points for this team.

He has poured massive resources (two 1st round picks + lots of FA $$$) into the OL.

He made the franchise-altering decision that the QB drafted #3 in 2018 was part of the problem and should be replaced with another unproven QB at the expense of a massive resource (#2 overall draft pick).

He chose the new HC and blessed the selection of the OC and the major coaching hires.

This team is 100% constructed exactly as JD wants it, particularly on offense.  He has been given immense resources, dedicated those resources to the offense (no Defensive draft pick higher than the 3rd round since he's been here).  It scored 0 points last weekend.

The Jets don't need to win a lot of games but they need to show a lot of progress this year.  I think the midway point of the season is a very fair time to evaluate how things are going and start contemplating JD's future.  Again, not based on W's and L's but how the players that he has signed and drafted have looked, and whether the coaching staff is fielding a competitive team.  They haven't put a scare into any opponent yet, always climbing uphill in these games.

 

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Im not going to sit here and say I think JD is great or even good, but this mess goes way beyond JD. Has he picked the players, absolutely, were there a few things during the draft that were shaky, absolutely.

Now, we have a HC who came in and basically said he can make just about any players work in the NFL and its more on the coaching than the players becuase there is not a big gap between player quality in the NFL. Im paraphrasing but he said something along these lines.

The line has been dog sh*t, is that on JD, is it on Saleh/Lafleur, I don't know. Scheme plays into this, playcalling plays into this, coaching plays into this.

There is no single point of faiulre that leads to the disaster we have.

Actually, I take that back, its ownership. We need one neck to choke, a president, a strong GM, a strong coach, but we need one football person in charge who makes all football decisions. The constant revolving door at coach, OC, QB, player personel does not help at all. Good orgs have stability, and have caoches and GM's on the same page as to what they are looking for. We don't and have not had that.

For years we rant about the symptoms rather than the problem, JD is another symptom. Firing JD without fixing the problem will not help, we have been attacking symtpoms for years with no different results.

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10 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Again, this season was never about wins and losses, nobody reasonable expected them to hit the ground running, it's always been about growing and improving as the season goes on.  I think we need to be patient and let it play out.

You're a very patient man, JiF. Take a look at the Lions, who are 0-3, yet it feels like they're worlds better than the Jets. If the Jets were playing at least good as the 0-3 Lions I highly doubt we'd be seeing the same reaction amongst the Jets fan base as we are now. 

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43 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

So far Douglas has shown that nothing matters unless you can draft really well. (As most of us know regarding GM's)

Mccagnan was a joke with no plan throwing darts against a wall.

Idzik and Douglas both had plans, followed those plans, executed those plans and then fell flat on their face at the draft table.

 

This is all true. 
As you stated, I believe JD had a plan and is following that plan but…he can’t be so myopic.  
As an example - When bringing in a rookie QB and knowing you’re bringing back 4/5 of the worst OL in the NFL (in addition to all the other new things that were certain to take time to develop) - after watching your previous QB get destroyed.  

You must have enough self awareness to not put this kid in the same situation.  
 

You have to adapt your plan. 
Spend big in FA (over and above market) to protect this kid or bring in a vet to start until you’re in a position to protect this kid.  

This isn’t just with what he did with ZW.

yes, he had a plan (which I loved)

yes, he’s been terrible at making personnel decisions (FA and draft)

but he’s also been very bad at situational awareness.  

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4 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Im not going to sit here and say I think JD is great or even good, but this mess goes way beyond JD. Has he picked the players, absolutely, were there a few things during the draft that were shaky, absolutely.

Now, we have a HC who came in and basically said he can make just about any players work in the NFL and its more on the coaching than the players becuase there is not a big gap between player quality in the NFL. Im paraphrasing but he said something along these lines.

The line has been dog sh*t, is that on JD, is it on Saleh/Lafleur, I don't know. Scheme plays into this, playcalling plays into this, coaching plays into this.

There is no single point of faiulre that leads to the disaster we have.

Actually, I take that back, its ownership. We need one neck to choke, a president, a strong GM, a strong coach, but we need one football person in charge who makes all football decisions. The constant revolving door at coach, OC, QB, player personel does not help at all. Good orgs have stability, and have caoches and GM's on the same page as to what they are looking for. We don't and have not had that.

For years we rant about the symptoms rather than the problem, JD is another symptom. Firing JD without fixing the problem will not help, we have been attacking symtpoms for years with no different results.

jd picked the coach-if u dont like the coaching that is on jd as well

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1 minute ago, playtowinthegame said:

You're a very patient man, JiF. Take a look at the Lions, who are 0-3, yet it feels like they're worlds better than the Jets. If the Jets were playing at least good as the 0-3 Lions I highly doubt we'd be seeing the same reaction amongst the Jets fan base as we are now. 

I think most realistic fans were expecting losses. And comfortable with them (I was)

it’s just the product they’re putting on the field right now is just not professional.  It’s the keystone cops.  They can’t catch, they can’t block, they running wrong routes, guys are running free everywhere.  
This isn’t just about talent, it’s about the sloppiness in which they’re playing that is so disheartening.  

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58 minutes ago, derp said:

Agree with this.

The comparison to Idzik is an interesting one. As others have pointed out, Idzik got two years not one. And Douglas has only had two drafts, same as Idzik.

Idzik also laid the groundwork for Maccagnan to turn the team into a short-term contender by leaving cap space and assets, which is what Douglas has done.

The difference is that in year three Maccagnan spent a ton on a roster that was completely devoid of talent and that spending hamstrung the franchise because you don’t  build a good team in FA - you supplement for sure.

No franchise hits on all draft picks. The roster and drafts look worse right now because Douglas isn’t really spending on FA’s beyond to band aid and put a team together. His draft picks are being put in positions to play and results are mixed.

I do think they’re better than the Idzik drafts thus far. He’s potentially hit on some day three defenders. Early picks certainly have been mixed largely due to the inconsistency of the players. He’s also switched schemes he was drafting for midway through.

The teams that draft well don’t hit on all their picks, but they have a lot of them and a competent roster to allow for gradual growth of those players and letting go of misses. At best the Jets won’t be in that situation for a while.

All that said the results have been really, really bad. Of all the errors, the biggest mistake IMO was drafting and playing a young quarterback in a situation that was obviously going to be disastrous. If they signed a veteran and committed to redshirting Wilson before taking next offseason to make a big step forward with the supporting cast I’d feel differently about this season and Douglas. Huge miss.

Great post, I agree with all this and honestly the bold is the only true gripe I have with JD and the CS right now but unfortunately, it's too late.  In regards to the draft, it's too early to make any determinations on this draft but it's plain to see they should not have had Zach Wilson starting the season.  That was as you said, a huge miss.  

 

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3 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

His 2020 draft is on life support. 2021 is off to a poor start. Even with this he is here next season but unless things improve, he is wearing out his welcome. 

Becton/Mims with any sort of due diligence on the pre draft interview, football dedication side should have taken them both off of their draft boards, especially for a team starting at ground zero. Both of those picks needed to be committed like Brick/Mangold were or Revis/Harris. Not even talking talent- just guys who were all in with football and culture changers.

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4 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Becton/Mims with any sort of due diligence on the pre draft interview, football dedication side should have taken them both off of their draft boards, especially for a team starting at ground zero. Both of those picks needed to be committed like Brick/Mangold were or Revis/Harris. Not even talking talent- just guys who were all in with football and culture changers.

I don't  blame Becton. Mangold and Brick played on a line with solid Vets in Damien Woody and Alan Fanecca. Becton with what little playing he has done has been with a bunch of scrubs. 

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40 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

Agree. But is this happening? First game vs. Panthers was actually a fairly competitive game. We lost but it wasn’t a blowout. 2nd game vs. Pats was riddled with turnovers, sloppy and non- competitive. Very disappointing. 3rd game was embarrassing. Getting blown out by a team like the Broncos who are in themselves rebuilding and not showing up at all. They are getting progressively worse. This is whats alarming. And IMO, this falls on LaFleur. The offense is just putrid and weighing down the defense. And it just doesn’t look like it’s going to change other than get worse. 

If we're being honest, none of these games were competitive.  lol  The Panthers dominated that game until it was over and they took their foot of the gas because they knew it was over.  I do think you've seen some subtle improvement in areas, it's just hard to find them when you're losing so bad.  I thought the DL and corners had a nice Sunday.  The week before vs. the Pats, the OL blocked well in the run game, the D kept them around in what should have been a 30 deficit at the half.  The last 2 weeks, were just terrible match ups.  They were never going to be close.  This offense vs. 2 of the best defensive coaches in the game with absolutely loaded talent on that side of the ball?  The Jets never stood a chance. 

I'm not trying to say I told you so but I predicted all of this to a tee.  I told everyone the first few weeks were going to be a disaster.  Rookies everywhere, including the coaching staff.  I've predicted blowouts in every game for a reason, this team is trash.  Worst roster in the NFL and we're asking a rookie staff, rookie QB, with the youngest team in the NFL to overcome this enormous lack of talent?  It was never going to happen, this was always destined to be ugly to start the season....ok, maybe not this ugly but still, you just have to see improvement and I do think you've seen it in areas, again, just hard to appreciate the subtle improvements when you're getting blown out. 

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26 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

You're a very patient man, JiF. Take a look at the Lions, who are 0-3, yet it feels like they're worlds better than the Jets. If the Jets were playing at least good as the 0-3 Lions I highly doubt we'd be seeing the same reaction amongst the Jets fan base as we are now. 

When I look at the Lions, I see a QB who had led his team to the Super Bowl being led by a veteran coaching staff.

When I look at the Jets, I see a QB who should not be playing on Sundays being led by a rookie coaching staff. 

I just try to keep things in perspective and be realistic about the situation.  This team, is trash being led by people who have never done their jobs before.  It's a recipe for disaster and that's what we're being served.  If you dont see improvement as the season goes on, I'll probably jump into the hysteria but right now?  Nah, I'm chill.  It's been 3 games.

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27 minutes ago, Scotty Wooty Doo Doo said:

I was done with JD , when he chose to take 5 DB's in a row. I mean really, and some people applauded this like it was a genius act .

There's an old military adage that "He who defends everything defends nothing." JD's first draft saw him draft a little bit of everything, which was big mistake when the OL and WR needed total overhauls and the draft was deep at those spots.  So, we're already at the state where he drafted pretty much nothing because there was really no depth to his draft... he didn't even consider that any of his picks might bust or get hurt.  He did take a 2nd (small school) OL later, but took several risky players and a totally not needed QB prospect.

The next year, halfway through the draft I guess he figured it was time to draft in depth at a need area, but instead of doing that on the OL, he did it with DBs, and probably overdid it. He must have figured that he'd completed his rebuild of the offense.  We'll see, I guess.

 

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