Stay. The. Course.

[#27TheDominator]

10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

After 1 season?  C'mon.  He's not Steve Wilks.  

What quality GM/HC combo with options is going to come to this dumpster fire of an org, especially after having fired Saleh 1 season in, despite being saddled with a garbage roster?

Okay, so now 28 months = 3 years and 3 games = 1 season. 

Is this like the social media question about the "new math" that I supposedly get wrong?

[Albaniajet]

Stay the course for what? Another 5 years no playoffs and tanking for Arch in 3 years?

[Albaniajet]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Okay, so now 28 months = 3 years and 3 games = 1 season. 

Is this like the social media question about the "new math" that I supposedly get wrong?

How many wins are we averaging next 5 years? 2?

[munchmemory]

1 minute ago, Albaniajet said:

How many wins are we averaging next 5 years? 2?

But yet, folks get upset when fans revolt.

[Dcronin]

Look, this is a rational, non-emotional, long-term thinking post, so I appreciate it in contrast to my emotion-fueled, pessimistic instincts.

That being said, this is inexcusable football. When your team is decimated by injury, you need to have a creative, modular approach. You need to learn how to not have your QB hit 90 times a game. You also potentially need to consider not starting your so-called future franchise QB when you simply don't have a team to put around him. Who do you start in his place? Our veteran QB that we don't have.

A rough season is one thing. A season that threatens to ruin a player and further alienate free agents from ever coming here is quite another. We are in panic mode because 0-18 is a real possibility at this rate. They either need to start offloading again to get picks, or make some bold moves now to fortify this team before Zach gets killed and everyone wants out.

[Albaniajet]

6 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

But yet, folks get upset when fans revolt.

This is what, year 7 of the “true rebuild?”

[munchmemory]

Just now, Albaniajet said:

This is what, year 7 of the “true rebuild?”

It's just exasperating.  Year after year after year after year......

[Albaniajet]

Just now, munchmemory said:

It's just exasperating.  Year after year after year after year......

And Zach needs 17 years of playing worse than Geno before we can say if he’s good or not

[munchmemory]

Just now, Albaniajet said:

And Zach needs 17 years of playing worse than Geno before we can say if he’s good or not

I'll be watching from my senior residence.  Ideally, with a nice baked apple.

[56mehl56]

3 hours ago, LionelRichie said:

I have no problem with the young coaches learning on the job.   The only issue I have with this team is the franchise changing commitment to a rookie QB and then fielding such a sh*t OL.   You can't have Wilson starting behind BOTH van rotten and McGovern.   That is simply inexcusable, especially with a system guy like Linsley being available in FA.   

My biggest concern is that Wilson gets ruined before he gets started.   He has definitely regressed since the beating he took in week 1. 

 

Fans make it sound like all JD needed to do was open up a checkbook and every FA would choose the Jets. If you were a FA would you choose the Chargers and Herbert or the Jets and Zach ?

[Matt39]

The floggings will continue until morale improves.

[Albaniajet]

6 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Fans make it sound like all JD needed to do was open up a checkbook and every FA would choose the Jets. If you were a FA would you choose the Chargers and Herbert or the Jets and Zach ?

Players are openly taking less money not to sign here.  And Zach sucking will make it even worse

[munchmemory]

Just now, Albaniajet said:

Players are openly taking less money not to sign here.  And Zach sucking will make it even worse

At least our O Line will make signing here attractive to an elite QB. 

[Jetsfan80]

25 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Okay, so now 28 months = 3 years and 3 games = 1 season. 

Is this like the social media question about the "new math" that I supposedly get wrong?

 

 

[HighPitch]

4 hours ago, Maynard13 said:

Many screamed this approach But JD is failing in numerous accounts. His drafts are 50-50 right now. If not worse. His FA acquisitions SUCk azzholes. He’s got to stop spending good money on the Fant, Kahului and Feeny’s out there. Fix the damn OL by next year or GTFO. It’s imperative. I don’t want to hear it. Sign 2 FA accomplished OL and draft 2 with top picks. Stop ****in around.

Lets be fair: During the draft from 2 years ago, most people thought it was very good. Last year, most people thought it was a slam dunk. Even the media gave these drafts high praise. Then there were the free agent signings. Most poster thought they were great value signings. How many “thank you joe douglas” comments have you read. A ton.

And now, we stink. Terribly. Like Kotite level stink. Wtf?

So whats the deal? The poster, JD, and the media all got it wrong? Possibly.But wow, thats a lot of very wrong people.

Im upset, but firm in the patience tank. We have a ton of draft pics and cap space. Were finally investing in qb and o line. Were finally not signing overpriced over the hill free agents. I know that was always something that never worked out for decades so this is refreshing in some way. We need to be patient. Like hold your opinion and scorn until december of 22.

sadly, i think our OC is a chump. Saleh might also stink, idk yet. Our D has been solid considering the talent. 

Try to be patient. Yea i get it ive been a fan since the bruce coslett days. Its not bout being patient with the 10 or 20 or 30 years youve been watching, its about being patient right now with jd saleh and zach. They are new

[Biggs]

Staying the course would mean Todd Bowles or Adam Gase would still be the HC right now.  People who are attractive and likeable who are no more or less competent than unattractive and unlikeable people tend to get more time.   Doesn't mean they deserve more time.  Douglas and Saleh are both likeable guys.  They are likely to survive longer than they should if they suck at their jobs.  

My take to date.  Douglas and Saleh are terrible in positions that are far above what they have every done before.  The question is will they grow into their positions at a level that will make them difference makers and will it happen fast enough so it's worth taking the risk and not cutting your losses?

I suspect they will both get a chance to reach an exceptable level of mediocrity.  That's when the real rubber hits the road. 

Stay the course isn't a formula for success.  The formula is can Douglas and Saleh compete with their peers at a high enough level to put a competitive, entertaining product on the field within a reasonable time frame, whatever that really is?

 

[#27TheDominator]

32 minutes ago, Albaniajet said:

This is what, year 7 of the “true rebuild?”

 

31 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

It's just exasperating.  Year after year after year after year......

You do realize that you literally are advocating another rebuild?  One that you want to start in the middle of the season so they have a built in excuse to tack another year or two on. 

[Drums]

2 hours ago, JTJet said:

I get what you meant. 

It still doesnt change the fact that this man has his team on the field, and it sucks. A lot. 

3 years in. You're supposed to see SOME progress, even if it's only his first year with his coach. Incremental. 

There is none of that. The team looks objectively worse in every single aspect of the game. That's on JD. 

agreed completely. I just disagree about pulling the plug just yet, as if someone else is out there, or the idea in general would fix anything. We keep doing it. Doesn’t  matter who gets hired, it’s the same issues every damn time. So yeah, stay the course. 

[Drums]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Well, doesn't it start with that?

I mean if the crux of your argument is that he would be fired too soon, and that you believe three years is immediate - makes just about everything else, IMO, faulty.

I certainly won't argue with your interpretation of immediate, that's your view.  But if you believe it's three years then you and are viewing it completely differently and probably not worth debating. 

I just wanted to make sure I understood your position before commenting on the rest.

Except that’s not the crux. Do you think it is smart to hire a new Gm every three years? I just checked our history and it hasn’t worked. 

[Drums]

Something else is we have a who’s who of scouts/humans in our front office. You’d think we would have better results. 

[Maynard13]

33 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

Lets be fair: During the draft from 2 years ago, most people thought it was very good. Last year, most people thought it was a slam dunk. Even the media gave these drafts high praise. Then there were the free agent signings. Most poster thought they were great value signings. How many “thank you joe douglas” comments have you read. A ton.

And now, we stink. Terribly. Like Kotite level stink. Wtf?

So whats the deal? The poster, JD, and the media all got it wrong? Possibly.But wow, thats a lot of very wrong people.

Im upset, but firm in the patience tank. We have a ton of draft pics and cap space. Were finally investing in qb and o line. Were finally not signing overpriced over the hill free agents. I know that was always something that never worked out for decades so this is refreshing in some way. We need to be patient. Like hold your opinion and scorn until december of 22.

sadly, i think our OC is a chump. Saleh might also stink, idk yet. Our D has been solid considering the talent. 

Try to be patient. Yea i get it ive been a fan since the bruce coslett days. Its not bout being patient with the 10 or 20 or 30 years youve been watching, its about being patient right now with jd saleh and zach. They are new

Speak for yourself. I never approved of these acquisitions nor would have I signed off on them. There is something rotten in Johnsonville. Why oh why weren’t we able to sign some of the top FA’s? It seems like the Johnson’s were content with putting out a putrid product and not spending top dollar on the better FA’s and filling out the roster with these low life scrubs. JD can’t be this bad. This stinks of the Johnson bros.

[56mehl56]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Jets would still be 0-3 with Darnold...and Darnold would still look like sh*t.

I think it's clear about two things...

1) When you suck as bad as the Jets do - there is no way to judge if your QB is good or not.  Sam succeeding as soon as he left is a clear indicator of that.

2) Judging Zach in these first three weeks is a useless endeavor.   The only people judging him right now were the anti-zaxers that were going to find a way to sh*t on the kid regardless of what he did.  He'll be winning Super Bowls and they'll still be calling him a sh*tty small school prospect.

I think Sam is benefiting from a OC I would have loved to have hired, hell even as HC - Joe Brady. 

[Maynard13]

38 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

Lets be fair: During the draft from 2 years ago, most people thought it was very good. Last year, most people thought it was a slam dunk. Even the media gave these drafts high praise. Then there were the free agent signings. Most poster thought they were great value signings. How many “thank you joe douglas” comments have you read. A ton.

And now, we stink. Terribly. Like Kotite level stink. Wtf?

So whats the deal? The poster, JD, and the media all got it wrong? Possibly.But wow, thats a lot of very wrong people.

Im upset, but firm in the patience tank. We have a ton of draft pics and cap space. Were finally investing in qb and o line. Were finally not signing overpriced over the hill free agents. I know that was always something that never worked out for decades so this is refreshing in some way. We need to be patient. Like hold your opinion and scorn until december of 22.

sadly, i think our OC is a chump. Saleh might also stink, idk yet. Our D has been solid considering the talent. 

Try to be patient. Yea i get it ive been a fan since the bruce coslett days. Its not bout being patient with the 10 or 20 or 30 years youve been watching, its about being patient right now with jd saleh and zach. They are new

Try 50+ years watching youngster 

[LionelRichie]

52 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Fans make it sound like all JD needed to do was open up a checkbook and every FA would choose the Jets. If you were a FA would you choose the Chargers and Herbert or the Jets and Zach ?

Yep, that's pretty much how it works.   If they offered Linsley more $, he probably comes here.   There were several FA's who are an upgrade to van rotten, yet van rotten and McGovern are 40% of the team protecting our #1 asset.    You can fix the cap later, but you cannot allow Zach to get shell-shocked in yr 1.     I expected the team to suck, but I expected JD to protect the franchise. 

[FidelioJet]

14 minutes ago, Drums said:

Except that’s not the crux. Do you think it is smart to hire a new Gm every three years? I just checked our history and it hasn’t worked. 

Yes, if you know he's not the guy you move on.  You keep trying until you someone that knows how to build a team.

I agree, we haven't been good at picking GM's - but once you know it's a dead end you move on.  JD is a dead end.  IMO, Any time keeping him around is wasted time.

[FidelioJet]

5 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I think Sam is benefiting from a OC I would have loved to have hired, hell even as HC - Joe Brady. 

It's probably a number of factors.  But I think most would agree, if Sam were still on the Jets he would still look like the 34th ranked QB he was last year.

And using that logic it's reasonable to assume ZW really can't be judged under the current circumstances.  Not saying we know he's good, but there's just no way to judge with a team like this.

[RoadFan]

I agree with OP’s premise that they have to continue with this GM/HC combo.  But I do not fault other Jets’ fans, who should more appropriately be called victims, for being justifiably unhappy with the personnel decisions thus far of Douglas.  
 

If this team remains unable to even compete, I don’t believe anything will save this team other than new ownership.

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I think Sam is benefiting from a OC I would have loved to have hired, hell even as HC - Joe Brady. 

He'd be our OC now, along with Rhule as HC if they didn't try to ram Gregg ******* Williams down his throat.

[BornJetsFan1983]

6 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Stop being such a bunch of hypocritical pussies. 

All I kept hearing was that we need our own coach and QB.  We need to start from scratch.  That we need to develop younger players and stop wasting time playing vets.  Just this past season the board was overrun with posts complaining that Bell and Gore were on the field.  2015 is lambasted as a disaster because we didn't make the playoffs and developed nothing.  The board almost universally complains about late season wins because they cost us draft capital.  People would rather go 0-16 than 8-8.  Now they are doing what you asked and you whine like my son avoiding "rest your eyes time" at pre-school?  Suck it up.

Things have looked bad.  That is no guarantee of success, but it is not a guarantee of failure either.  Andy Reid started off -0-4 in Philly.  He was an offensive genius brought over from the Packers and his teams scored 29 points over the first 3 games including being shut out.  Sound familiar?  Kyle Shanahan, with these very guys on staff, started off 0-9 in SF.

sh*t may look up and it may not, but Douglas was a well respected hire.  He was not some dunce that couldn't handle a press conference brought over because he was the only guy willing to take on Rex.  He was not some coffee addled protege of a guy who goes to the wig store and asks for the Moe Howard.  He is a guy everybody said would right the ship and play the long game.  He is playing the long game.  Live with it.  Barring some real insanity he gets this year and next.   He should.  

exactly

[56mehl56]

10 minutes ago, LionelRichie said:

Yep, that's pretty much how it works.   If they offered Linsley more $, he probably comes here.   There were several FA's who are an upgrade to van rotten, yet van rotten and McGovern are 40% of the team protecting our #1 asset.    You can fix the cap later, but you cannot allow Zach to get shell-shocked in yr 1.     I expected the team to suck, but I expected JD to protect the franchise. 

But how many of those OL upgrades have experience in a zone blocking scheme. Depth while not great looked better in PS with both Lewis and Clark onboard. But those injuries/retirement as well as those to Becton and AVT in TC have made the line depth razor thin.  Not ideal with new systems, schemes and a new QB.

[munchmemory]

47 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

 

You do realize that you literally are advocating another rebuild?  One that you want to start in the middle of the season so they have a built in excuse to tack another year or two on. 

I know, damn you.  lol  There is no escape from this labyrinth. 

[Larz]

[#27TheDominator]

7 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

I know, damn you.  lol  There is no escape from this labyrinth. 

The enemy is anybody who is going to get you killed, no matter which side he is on. 

[Drums]

35 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes, if you know he's not the guy you move on.  You keep trying until you someone that knows how to build a team.

I agree, we haven't been good at picking GM's - but once you know it's a dead end you move on.  JD is a dead end.  IMO, Any time keeping him around is wasted time.

He is definitely not perfect so he may not be the guy but he needs to be the guy. He just hired a HC and I don’t want to go through that crap again (how many times now?). He won’t get fired this year. I think it’s fair to see what the team can do over the course of the season. The team has talent but like Sperm said, it’s just a lot of new at once. So far it’s feeing EXACTLY like last year but let’s see what happens this season. 

[Biggs]

58 minutes ago, Drums said:

Except that’s not the crux. Do you think it is smart to hire a new Gm every three years? I just checked our history and it hasn’t worked. 

Other side of the coin.  Was it smart to hang onto incompetent GM's on average of every 3 years or should we have canned them after 3 games?