AVT is highest graded rookie OG, second highest rookie OLineman in run blocking

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

The line hasn’t been great, but it also hasnt been atrocious.   There has been opportunities for plays to be made in the passing game.  It’s no secret Zach’s internal clock is running slow right now, hopefully that starts speeding up as the season goes along.  

Plus there’s been more than a few dropped passes.  That’s why they were shut out last week.

[IndianaJet]

I saw a tweet earlier this week that had Michael Carter II also highly ranked on PFF.  Not sure if it was just last week or overall, but some of these kids are showing improvement already.

 

Edit - here it is - MC II is the 14th highest rated player in the rookie class through 3 weeks.

Quote

CB MICHAEL CARTER II, NEW YORK JETS

PFF overall grade: 71.1

Yet another slot cornerback playing well out the gate. Carter’s 15 targets have turned into only 50 yards so far this season. On his 19 tackle attempts, Carter has missed only one so far, and nine of those have resulted in a defensive stop.

 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, IndianaJet said:

I saw a tweet earlier this week that had Michael Carter II also highly ranked on PFF.  Not sure if it was just last week or overall, but some of these kids are showing improvement already.

This draft class looks good.  And who knows, maybe they’ll play mims and last year’s class won’t totally suck.

[sec101row23]

5 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Yet, our QB has been sacked the 2nd most in the league?  hmmmmm

Obviously a lot of this is on Zach.  Aside from waiting for guys to become completely “open”, his skills at escaping a collapsing pocket haven't been good.  I’d be working him on some pocket eject drills during the week.   

[Maynard13]

8 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

This draft class looks good.  And who knows, maybe they’ll play mims and last year’s class won’t totally suck.

 

[derp]

36 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I found this to be an interesting stat regarding the Jets pass blocking.  Aside from GVR the line has t done a bad job of pass blocking.  
 

 

 

Definitely damning for Wilson and obviously GVR has been atrocious. I’d hope AVT improves, average isn’t bad but he’s got to be a tremendous guard to justify the move up for him.

Of all the absurd ideas for how to improve the quality of the team’s OL play, I wonder if Moses could kick in to guard when Becton comes back. It’s absolutely a little silly but seems to be the most feasible way to get the best 5 OL on the field. Moses is certainly strong enough to handle playing on the interior but I wonder if he’s a little too tall for it.

Definitely one of those units kind of like the secondary that’s only going to be as good as the weakest link. Not upgrading the OL more this offseason and playing a rookie QB who played behind an absolutely elite line in college was irresponsible.

[Averagejetsfan1421]

13 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

If Becton had stayed healthy, those two on that left side would be making our run game look quite a bit better than it has.

How? Joe Douglas cant draft,  Becton is trash , well atleast thats what they say

[doitny]

19 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Plus there’s been more than a few dropped passes.  That’s why they were shut out last week.

more than a few.....  LMAO

[sec101row23]

6 minutes ago, derp said:

Definitely damning for Wilson and obviously GVR has been atrocious. I’d hope AVT improves, average isn’t bad but he’s got to be a tremendous guard to justify the move up for him.

Of all the absurd ideas for how to improve the quality of the team’s OL play, I wonder if Moses could kick in to guard when Becton comes back. It’s absolutely a little silly but seems to be the most feasible way to get the best 5 OL on the field. Moses is certainly strong enough to handle playing on the interior but I wonder if he’s a little too tall for it.

Definitely one of those units kind of like the secondary that’s only going to be as good as the weakest link. Not upgrading the OL more this offseason and playing a rookie QB who played behind an absolutely elite line in college was irresponsible.

Moses moving to guard may not be an easy transition for him, generally it’s the guys who lack length that get moved inside and have success.  

[JustInFudge]

19 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Obviously a lot of this is on Zach.  Aside from waiting for guys to become completely “open”, his skills at escaping a collapsing pocket haven't been good.  I’d be working him on some pocket eject drills during the week.   

The biggest thing that I've seen leading to sacks, is his drop backs.  He's not consistent with them at all.  If the first read is there, he plants the foot and ball comes out fast, quick and on target.  If it's not there, his 3 steps turn into 5 and his 5 turn into 7.  It throws the timing off of everything and giving pass rushers more room to work around his OL.  They need to dial that in, very hard to run an offense if you're off schedule the second your QB starts his drop back.

[doitny]

31 minutes ago, IndianaJet said:

I saw a tweet earlier this week that had Michael Carter II also highly ranked on PFF.  Not sure if it was just last week or overall, but some of these kids are showing improvement already.

 

Edit - here it is - MC II is the 14th highest rated player in the rookie class through 3 weeks.

 

im telling you guys, give these kids a chance. 

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

The biggest thing that I've seen leading to sacks, is his drop backs.  He's not consistent with them at all.  If the first read is there, he plants the foot and ball comes out fast, quick and on target.  If it's not there, his 3 steps turn into 5 and his 5 turn into 7.  It throws the timing off of everything and giving pass rushers more room to work around his OL.  They need to dial that in, very hard to run an offense if you're off schedule the second your QB starts his drop back.

Plus there doesn’t seem to be easy fall back options.  I expected more quick passes to TEs and rbs, and not watching wilson try to sit in the pocket and go thru reads 1-4 before throwing.  I hoped for a simplified offense early on.  Maybe not having crowder hurt, maybe not playing mims hurt, and the drops definitely hurt.  

[sec101row23]

43 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

The biggest thing that I've seen leading to sacks, is his drop backs.  He's not consistent with them at all.  If the first read is there, he plants the foot and ball comes out fast, quick and on target.  If it's not there, his 3 steps turn into 5 and his 5 turn into 7.  It throws the timing off of everything and giving pass rushers more room to work around his OL.  They need to dial that in, very hard to run an offense if you're off schedule the second your QB starts his drop back.

Agreed.  He’s a bit of a drifter right now and when the OT’s ride their defenders up field, Zach is sitting there waiting for them.   If it’s a 3 step drop the o-line is expecting Zach to be at a certain spot so they block accordingly.  When Zach turns a 3 step drop into a 5 or 6 step drop he’s not helping the o-line and in some cases is drifting right into the pass rush.  
 

Like I said earlier, they really need to work on escaping the pocket.  He’s a bit of a mess right now.  

[section314]

38 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

The line hasn’t been great, but it also hasnt been atrocious.   There has been opportunities for plays to be made in the passing game.  It’s no secret Zach’s internal clock is running slow right now, hopefully that starts speeding up as the season goes along.  

Agreed, but these are the type of stats that make me think that we are watching something totally different. Also have to get guys in there that can catch the damn ball. 

[sec101row23]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Plus there doesn’t seem to be easy fall back options.  I expected more quick passes to TEs and rbs, and not watching wilson try to sit in the pocket and go thru reads 1-4 before throwing.  I hoped for a simplified offense early on.  Maybe not having crowder hurt, maybe not playing mims hurt, and the drops definitely hurt.  

He did have some throws to the RBs last week, he either threw the ball at their feet or they dropped the ball. Those plays looked rushed, Zach was throwing fast balls at guys 6 yards down field or the backs started looking up field before they caught the ball.  

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.  He’s a bit of a drifter right now and when the O-line rides their defenders up field, Zach is sitting there waiting for them.   If it’s a 3 step drop the o-line is expecting Zach to be at a certain spot so they block accordingly.  When Zach turns a 3 step drop into a 5 or 6 step drop he’s not helping the o-line and in some cases is drifting right into the pass rush.  
 

Like I said earlier, they really need to work on escaping the pocket.  He’s a bit of a mess right now.  

Because when it’s a deeper drop, the wrs usually are not getting open and that’s when he holds onto the ball and tries to play hero ball.  Wish there were a TE outlet or rb dump off as alternatives.  If it’s there wilson has to take it.

[sec101row23]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Because when it’s a deeper drop, the wrs usually are not getting open and that’s when he holds onto the ball and tries to play hero ball.  Wish there were a TE outlet or rb dump off as alternatives.  If it’s there wilson has to take it.

Part of the problem has been they have been keeping the RB and TE in to block.  

[jeremy2020]

13 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

We need something around here to hang our hat on.

I'm glad someone dug deep enough to find something

[Augustiniak]

20 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Part of the problem has been they have been keeping the RB and TE in to block.  

So then the crux of the problem is the OL.  If they’re using these guys as supplemental blockers rather than play makers, it’s easier to cover the wrs.  And yet there’s still considerable pressure.

[sec101row23]

6 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

So then the crux of the problem is the OL.  If they’re using these guys as supplemental blockers rather than play makers, it’s easier to cover the wrs.  And yet there’s still considerable pressure.

The crux of the problem is a rookie QB learning the position.  All phases of this offense have had their share of mistakes as well.  The o-line has played well enough for this to not look like the s**t show it has become however.  

[Bronx]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

I found this to be an interesting stat regarding the Jets pass blocking.  Aside from GVR the line has t done a bad job of pass blocking.  
 

 

 

All-pro line up right there. Honolulu here we come!

[Origen]

I'm not sure why this has to be said, but you can't put a 6'7" 370+ person in as a guard.  Especially if they have played tackle their entire career, but just the size aspect alone makes it asinine to put him anywhere other than at the ends of the line.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, section314 said:

80% of our OL has better than 90% win rates, yet our QB has been sacked the most in the league? Call me crazy, I guess.?

Maybe means if they're out of position, and thus blocking nobody, they didn't win or lose (emphasis on didn't lose): it counts as nothing. 

Convenient. 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

Plus there doesn’t seem to be easy fall back options.  I expected more quick passes to TEs and rbs, and not watching wilson try to sit in the pocket and go thru reads 1-4 before throwing.  I hoped for a simplified offense early on.  Maybe not having crowder hurt, maybe not playing mims hurt, and the drops definitely hurt.  

Definitely seemed to be the case in the first 2 games but I thought they did a really good job of that vs. Denver.  11 targets went to RB's and TE's.  He average 4.6 yard per, which would indicate they did give him easier, shorter throws and a simplified offense.  Honestly, its why he threw that first pick.  He stared Davis down but they were sitting on all that underneath stuff and they read him like a book on that throw. 

[JustInFudge]

Interesting....just came across this which kind of flies in the face of this thread, however, if you read the whole article, they get into the footwork and drop backs:

Seth Galina of Pro Football Focus highlighted the woeful protection numbers from the Jets so far this season:

The offensive line has no excuses, either. Jets pass protectors allow a pressure 43.9% of the time, the third-worst rate in the league. The team ranks second in unblocked pressures allowed (16) through three games, too. The guard play has been a particular sore spot. Greg Van Roten and rookie Alijah Vera-Tucker rank 45th and 47th, respectively, in pass-block grade among 57 guards who have played at least 75 snaps in pass protection this season.

 

On Zach Wilson and the pain of quarterback development (yahoo.com)

 

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

Obviously a lot of this is on Zach.  Aside from waiting for guys to become completely “open”, his skills at escaping a collapsing pocket haven't been good.  I’d be working him on some pocket eject drills during the week.   

I don't think that's obvious at all.

Zach is getting killed, has close to no time and when he does his receivers are either running the wrong route, not open or dropping the ball.

 

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Maybe means if they're out of position, and thus blocking nobody, they didn't win or lose (emphasis on didn't lose): it counts as nothing. 

Convenient. 

This is exactly the case - the biggest problem we're having on the OL is that guys are running free all the time.

We're literally often keeping 8 people in to block and still guys are getting free. 

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

I found this to be an interesting stat regarding the Jets pass blocking.  Aside from GVR the line has t done a bad job of pass blocking.  
 

 

 

Our OL is getting so much help right now in 12 personnel, that if their win rate isn't good there's a really big problem.

OL is not a position for stats - watch the games and that will tell you how they're doing.

Let's be clear.  The NY Jets OL is awful.  

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

So then the crux of the problem is the OL.  If they’re using these guys as supplemental blockers rather than play makers, it’s easier to cover the wrs.  And yet there’s still considerable pressure.

Of course this is the case.

Go and listen to ZW's press conference.  He talks about this very fact.  He's holding the ball because no ones open and he wants to try and win the game.

Sure, he can throw it away after 2.5 seconds....because no on is open - and no-one is open because we have 8 guys in to block.  So he's holding waiting for someone to get open...He talked about hating all the 3 and outs.  The kid's a competitor and I don't want to break him of that.  Play to win!

Unfortunately when you have 8 guys in to block the QB should have more than 2.5 seconds.  That is simply not the case right now.

I'm really hoping it's just a scheme thing right now with the OL and they'll get to some semblance of just below average (I could live with that) but what we're seeing now is about as I've ever seen an OL play.

[SAR I]

Sunday: Plays well 

Tuesday: Ankle, 3-4 weeks

Agent: Full-go at trade deadline

SAR I

[JustInFudge]

22 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I don't think that's obvious at all.

Zach is getting killed, has close to no time and when he does his receivers are either running the wrong route, not open or dropping the ball.

 

Question; where do you think this ball is being thrown?   Like what side of the field? 

 

[Larz]

Starter range: 70 to 85

hooray

[FidelioJet]

21 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Sunday: Plays well 

Tuesday: Ankle, 3-4 weeks

Agent: Full-go at trade deadline

SAR I

Has Saleh lost the team already?

[Embrace the Suck]

Can't be, I think a certain center threw him under the buss recently...

[UntouchableCrew]

Small victories.