Are the Jets lost?

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

MetLife Stadium.  ?

One game and done?  That’s all the scheme gets?

[kevinc855]

2 minutes ago, Origen said:

Last year: Tear Down.  This year: Bare Walls.  Next year: Draft picks and cap space aplenty.  Why do I have to keep repeating this?  This is the plan now.  Gase blew up by sucking so much they couldn't even start his rebuild the first time, so we've now had to restart at the rockiest of bottoms possible.  It's all pointing to next year.  This is building the pipeline.  All the other teams that have 'successful' 'quick' rebuilds generally have the base that the Jets have not had for 25 years or ever.

So what was 2019? Non tear down? The idea you need 5 years to get good is insane 

[Jet_Engine1]

Lost is an understatement.

Flight 19 was "lost". The Jets are aimless....

[JTJet]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

3rd and 4th string players, last second desperation attempts after picking up Macc’s mess (Khalil) or Vedvick when Macc s K retired right before the start of the season?  
He’s missed on players, guess what they all do but not one of these listed is a big deal.  4th string, COVID QBS?

Irrelevant. 

This shows a distinct pattern. He has FAR more misses than hits. Statistically he should have been lucky on a couple by now, yet... here we are. 

[FidelioJet]

29 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

How do I take anything you say seriously if you claim that this isn't a rebuild?

It’s definitely a rebuild but one predicated on drafting well.  
 

He has failed at that.   Additionally, roster management and the nuance of how to build seems to be lacking as well.  

[JohnnyD]

At this point ... yes ... I am guarding a sliver of hope that this new plan works .... but you cannot argue against the past 2 decade debacle ... including the inflated 2009/2010 seasons. (LIPSTICK ON A PIG).
Those two fortunate seasons masked how diseased this team was and had been for 20+ years.
 
 

While the Jets obviously haven't been a model franchise with many woeful seasons since 1960, if you look at "recent" history it's actually it's been only the last 10 years that the Jets that the Jets have been really bad.

Prior to that, over the 15 previous seasons the Jets averaged over 8.5 wins/years, made the playoffs 7 times, outscored their opponents in 12 of those years, and appeared in 3 three AFC championshios,. Although they didn't win it all and were rarely a top 3/4 team, from Parcells through mid Ryan - that's still a pretty good stretch.

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[Origen]

13 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

So what was 2019? Non tear down? The idea you need 5 years to get good is insane 

"Gase blew IT* up by sucking so much they couldn't even start his rebuild the first time, so we've now had to restart at the rockiest of bottoms possible."

 

*edit

[Uncle Nicco]

2 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

I know Douglas is taking a lot of heat right now but I've like most of the decisions he has made. I'm frustrated as much as the next guy but we knew this would be a long hard process.

We did? 

I didn’t expect our offense to be worse than last year after upgrading QB, WR, RB, OL and supposedly coaching. 

[Dunnie]

While the Jets obviously haven't been a model franchise with many woeful seasons since 1960, if you look at "recent" history it's actually it's been only the last 10 years that the Jets that the Jets have been really bad.

Prior to that, over the 15 previous seasons the Jets averaged over 8.5 wins/years, made the playoffs 7 times, outscored their opponents in 12 of those years, and appeared in 3 three AFC championshios,. Although they didn't win it all and were rarely a top 3/4 team, from Parcells through mid Ryan - that's still a pretty good stretch.

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How many division titles??

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[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

I know Douglas is taking a lot of heat right now but I've like most of the decisions he has made. I'm frustrated as much as the next guy but we knew this would be a long hard process.

Serious question.

What has he done that you like?

I still like the ZW move - I like that he seems to put an emphasis on offense (first GM I can remember), even though it's been the worst in the league for time he's been here but at least he's trying...Otherwise I can't think of anything redeeming about his performance.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

1 hour ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

A rebuild implies we are actually building something here. That we are bad now but have building blocks to get better and something to look forward to as we take our lumps now. The GM sucks, cant draft, signs back ups and journeymen to starter contracts and the team is bad and there is almost 0 talent on the roster while we waste all the draft resources.

What are we building here? What progress has this team showed?

Like I said, I can't take you seriously, and your reply made it worse.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

45 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

It’s definitely a rebuild but one predicated on drafting well.  
 

He has failed at that.   Additionally, roster management and the nuance of how to build seems to be lacking as well.  

Two drafts. One for a different coach and scheme that isn't too good, and One good looking draft that is showing promise.

[Fantasy Island]

1 hour ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

A rebuild implies we are actually building something here. That we are bad now but have building blocks to get better and something to look forward to as we take our lumps now. The GM sucks, cant draft, signs back ups and journeymen to starter contracts and the team is bad and there is almost 0 talent on the roster while we waste all the draft resources.

What are we building here? What progress has this team showed?

we aren't building anything, we are treading water

[bla bla bla]

1 hour ago, Pichula said:

We did? 

I didn’t expect our offense to be worse than last year after upgrading QB, WR, RB, OL and supposedly coaching. 

- QB is a rookie 3 games in, if you want to call this a final grade so be it but I do think Zach will get better.

- WR, I do think we are better here. 

- RB has performed better

- OL has the same issues at C and RG as last year but I think overall they are better.

- Coaching for me has been the biggest let down, specifically from LaFleur. I think we are experiencing the growing pains of a young team and staff. We faced the 1st, 2nd, and 5th hardest defenses in the NFL so hopefully we start to see some better production in the coming weeks

[bla bla bla]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Serious question.

What has he done that you like?

I still like the ZW move - I like that he seems to put an emphasis on offense (first GM I can remember), even though it's been the worst in the league for time he's been here but at least he's trying...Otherwise I can't think of anything redeeming about his performance.

- Ryan Kalil signing didn't work out but given Center was a problem and we were already past the draft and FA I think it was a worth while swing. McGovern was coming off a top 10 year at Center, I don't think any of us expected what we've gotten from him.

- I like the Becton and Mims picks. I also like the Wilson, AVT, Moore, and Carter picks

- I wanted Daboll as our HC but I do t have a problem with Saleh yet. The Jets were applauded for that hire. LaFleur for me has been the bigger issue, I'm not sure I'd pin that on Douglas though.

- I like bringing in Davis and Lawson, losing Lawson sucks but an Achilles is not an injury you'd expect. Davis seems to be the best WR we've had since Marshall, whether he should be the #1 could be up for debate.

- His trades have been top notch, to the point where teams may not want to trade with us.

 

- Things I didn't like, Ashtyn Davis, Zuniga, and Morgan picks were head scratchers for me. 

- I wanted to bring back Robby

- Not signing a vet backup QB is an issue although I think Knapp was supposed to play a that type of roll. I don't want to see Wilson get hurt but if it were to happen I'm fine with no backup. Better to tank with inexperience than win a few without your rookie QB IMO

- OL has been a disappointment given the resources put into it but I do think with the exception of RG that unit will look much better half way through the season.

 

For me I try to look at the situation and the mindset when a decision is made as opposed to the outcome. I'm fine with a logical move that doesn't work out. It's the Safety in the first and second when you need a QB or the paying of CJ Mosley that get to me. Those made no sense at the time.

 

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, bla bla bla said:

 

For me I try to look at the situation and the mindset when a decision is made as opposed to the outcome. 

 

This is where you lose me.  I can see some of what you had to say, but ...

He's making $20mm to turn this thing around - good intentions aren't enough.  Outcome is ALL that matters.

Now, I don't agree with much of his logic either, I think he's been pretty much bad across the board.  It's not just what he did, it's also what he didn't do. But up until the point of that statement I thought it was a worthy debate.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

Good lord the parrots are making this board unbearable.

 

 

[doitny]

53 minutes ago, JTJet said:

You can keep pushing this all you want, doesn't make it true. 

He is in year 3. His contract states that. 

He may have not handled FA and the draft his first year but he had his fingerprints on plenty of sh*tty moves that year as well. 

2019 Joe Douglas Moves

- Signed Ryan Griffin (Crap and gave contract extension)

- Signed Ryan Kalil (Mega Crap and not on team)

- Traded for Alex Lewis (Crap and not on team)

- Traded for Nate Hairston (Mega crap and not on team)

- Claimed Kare Vedvick (Remember that doozy? ULTRA mega crap.. also not on team)

- Signed Sam Ficken (Crap and not on team)

- Signed Demaryius Thomas (Crap and not on team)

- Signed Luke Falk (Crap and not on team)

- Signed David Fales (Crap and not on team)

- Waived Kelechi Osemele (Half Crap but better than any OL he has brought in...)

- Traded Leo Williams (Necessary but had a career year and JD subsequently wasted the 3rd rounder on Ashytn Davis, and MC2 is still too early to tell)

 

...The myth that Joe Douglas didnt have anything to do with 2019 is a completely fabricated story. As a matter of fact, he had quite a bit to do with it. 

and all of those FAs were bad cause all the good ones signed in March.

your right about contract year, this is year 3, but 2 drafts and 2 FA periods..

but looking at your list to see his fingerprints is laughable.

you got 2 kickers on there. 

2 backup QBs, if you want to call them even that. both were Gase hires since they both played with him on other teams and knew his system. Fales was here for 5 days..lol

Thomas was a real good player in Denver. even after Payton left he had 2 good years with Siemian. we got him for a 6th rd pick so why not give him a shot. 

and Osemele was a Mac pickup. so you think JD cutting him was a bad move? he played 5 games with KC last year before he blew out both his knees. i don't think hes still playing.

so you really want to say he had a say with these guys. thats all that was left. meanwhile Mac just 3 months earlier signs Mosley, Crowder, Poole,... yeah i know Bell was a bust. point is all the good FA were gone, not much left but to take chances on trading for guys worth only a 6th rd pick or other crappy guys.

i dont think thats fair.

[playtowinthegame]

4 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

I know Douglas is taking a lot of heat right now but I've like most of the decisions he has made. I'm frustrated as much as the next guy but we knew this would be a long hard process.

[rangerous]

3 hours ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

Rebuilds in the modern NFL can be done in 1-2 seasons by people that know what they're doing. This isn't a rebuild. It's just another GM that thinks he is smarter than everyone else and is horrible at his job.

maybe.  i doubt if any rebuild started with an entirely new coaching staff and a still unproven gm was successful after 1 or 2 seasons.  give them a break.  this team is starting from a position below where expansion teams start.

[undertow]

It's amazing how quickly people have pivoted from "in JD we trust" and " we haven't had a GM this good in our history" to we are lost in a matter of weeks.  It's good to see people coming back to reality tho.

[playtowinthegame]

The Jets being lost in the maze is a good analogy. Just hope the offense this week isn't too corny. 

[Origen]

16 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

The Jets being lost in the maze is a good analogy. Just hope the offense this week isn't too corny. 

[playtowinthegame]

3 minutes ago, Origen said:

[slimjasi]

The Jets might as well be somewhere in deep space 

been lost for a lifetime 

[JTJet]

50 minutes ago, doitny said:

and all of those FAs were bad cause all the good ones signed in March.

your right about contract year, this is year 3, but 2 drafts and 2 FA periods..

but looking at your list to see his fingerprints is laughable.

you got 2 kickers on there. 

2 backup QBs, if you want to call them even that. both were Gase hires since they both played with him on other teams and knew his system. Fales was here for 5 days..lol

Thomas was a real good player in Denver. even after Payton left he had 2 good years with Siemian. we got him for a 6th rd pick so why not give him a shot. 

and Osemele was a Mac pickup. so you think JD cutting him was a bad move? he played 5 games with KC last year before he blew out both his knees. i don't think hes still playing.

so you really want to say he had a say with these guys. thats all that was left. meanwhile Mac just 3 months earlier signs Mosley, Crowder, Poole,... yeah i know Bell was a bust. point is all the good FA were gone, not much left but to take chances on trading for guys worth only a 6th rd pick or other crappy guys.

i dont think thats fair.

You can think it's not fair all you want really, that's an opinion, and you're entitled to it. 

I'm telling you the facts, and they dont vibe with the narrative that JD "just needs time" or is "doing a good job with what he has been handed". 

All those moves were made by JD. All of them. And if your argument is really that they were Gase's moves, then that makes JD look even worse doesnt it? 

Are kickers not important? Have we not been dying to find a consistent kicker for a couple years? Did JD find even a serviceable kicker? No. 

Are backup QBs not important? We clearly needed even a serviceable one that year. There were legitimate experienced vets in the market at the time. Did he successfully find even a base level backup? No. 

Did Thomas work out for us? No. He WAS a good player. So was the resource we gave up for him worth it? No. We could have had equal production from someone from the CFL that year. 

Osemele was playing for the Chiefs at a very high level the first 5 games before he got hurt, people were even talking about him having a career resurgence. We were also widely panned at the time for letting him go. Who cares that he got hurt? Doesnt change that fact he was clearly still a great player.

[Prodigal Syndicate]

2 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Like I said, I can't take you seriously, and your reply made it worse.

But you can take the job Joe Douglas has done here serious? 

[hungry jackson]

5 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

The GM is lost and in over his head.

Can we give JD one more draft?

Why not?

btw I was not too happy with drafting Little Zach W

[bla bla bla]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

This is where you lose me.  I can see some of what you had to say, but ...

He's making $20mm to turn this thing around - good intentions aren't enough.  Outcome is ALL that matters.

Now, I don't agree with much of his logic either, I think he's been pretty much bad across the board.  It's not just what he did, it's also what he didn't do. But up until the point of that statement I thought it was a worthy debate.

I guess my thought on a GM is that there are bad GMs that make stupid decisions and GMs that make good decisions that end up bad. Douglas falls into the latter for me at this particular point in time. That could certainly change.

I guess which logic do you disagree with and I'll try to see if I can find an rationale

[Maynard13]

7 hours ago, Maxman said:

Greenbean is back, working his way through a corn maze.  Which is a good way to describe the Jets season so far.

 

Don’t think! Feel 

well said GreenBean

 

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, JTJet said:

Irrelevant. 

This shows a distinct pattern. He has FAR more misses than hits. Statistically he should have been lucky on a couple by now, yet... here we are. 

Nonsense.  It was totally relevant.  You’re naming bottom of the roster scrubs.  Every team has them.  The whole K issue is overblown given he had a K retire right after taking the job.    How does it have anything to do with a new GM?  He’s had two drafts and he’s clearly not going after big time FAs.  Not hard to see what the plan is.  The instant gratification approach that hasn’t worked for 19 years isn’t going to be used here now.  They’re building a young team and I’d bet they’ll supplement the pucks with FAs later

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

It’s definitely a rebuild but one predicated on drafting well.  
 

He has failed at that.   Additionally, roster management and the nuance of how to build seems to be lacking as well.  

Love people that judge one draft after a full Covid season and one that’s 3 games old.  

[Green Ghost]

5 hours ago, Origen said:

Last year: Tear Down.  This year: Bare Walls.  Next year: Draft picks and cap space aplenty.  Why do I have to keep repeating this?  This is the plan now.  Gase blew up by sucking so much they couldn't even start his rebuild the first time, so we've now had to restart at the rockiest of bottoms possible.  It's all pointing to next year.  This is building the pipeline.  All the other teams that have 'successful' 'quick' rebuilds generally have the base that the Jets have not had for 25 years or ever.

This is such nonsense. You’re one of the smart ones here, stop giving Douglas a 2 year pass. It strains your credibility when you do.

We should have a two year base of draft picks who are contributing by now, and we don’t. How about a few FA’s out there making plays? Aside from Mosely, I don’t see that.

I get the whole tear down thing, but… it doesn’t mean you can’t start adding talent while you shed those who are lacking. That’s allowed. In fact it’s necessary.

I would venture 90% of this board realized this team wouldn’t have a winning record this season, but we all wanted/expected to see young players making contributions and the team to show improvement, not get worse.

You’ve watched the first 3 weeks. Stop acting the next 14 looking the same was always part of some master plan. It wasn’t.

Any reasonable person who looks at this situation from the day JD was hired until today and doesn’t admit he’s wasted two years spinning  wheels and going nowhere is fooling themselves. We are no better then we were the day he was hired. It could be argued we are worse.

[Jet2020]

8 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

2 confirmed disaster GM hires, now followed by a third who is being rightfully questioned.

An owner who leaves his team to be an ambassador and turns team over to less accomplished brother.   

Lost almost every recent 1st round pick to personnel issues and we ask if the Jets are lost????

Not had a decent QB in over 10 years, arguably some will say 20   

I assumed it was obvious.  

I think the OP was talking about tomorrow’s game whether they’ve already lost it or not. And the answer is, loss is a loss but any victory this year is also a loss. 

[Green Ghost]

18 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Love people that judge one draft after a full Covid season and one that’s 3 games old.  

Nothing matters does it? No other teams were able to improve over the last two seasons, were they? 
Everything is fine here in Jetsland.