We have ourselves a QB!

[JustInFudge]

12 hours ago, The Crusher said:

He playground the crap out of it today, fun AF to watch, but kid is still a work in progress in the pocket. Kinda always your point. 

Yeah, I dont think you can consistently win Football games off schedule like that and that's where this thread has lost me a bit when comparing him to Sam.  As we saw with Sam, that was really his only redeeming quality while here and it's not really what you want your QB doing to have to score points.  That said, it's a fantastic weapon to have in your arsenal and I think Zach has a little more tricks up his sleeve than Darnold when they have to go off script just because off his downfield accuracy. 

That said, the pocket stuff is still very messy and he has to get better at completing passes from the pocket, on schedule.  That is where you typically win and lose the Football game and instead of sealing the deal, they had to rely on a missed FG in OT.  You're not going to get a depleted Titans w/ their best pass rusher out who's defense sucks every week.  The good new is, he has another chance to get after it next week vs. Atlanta and then 2 weeks to prepare for New England.  Getting some rhythm and confidence will go a long way but what I hope this coaching staff does while he has off, is give him some serious pocket/footwork homework so he can start completing really what should be the easier stuff.  

 

 

[Scott Dierking]

6 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Yeah, I dont think you can consistently win Football games off schedule like that and that's where this thread has lost me a bit when comparing him to Sam.  As we saw with Sam, that was really his only redeeming quality while here and it's not really what you want your QB doing to have to score points.  That said, it's a fantastic weapon to have in your arsenal and I think Zach has a little more tricks up his sleeve than Darnold when they have to go off script just because off his downfield accuracy. 

That said, the pocket stuff is still very messy and he has to get better at completing passes from the pocket, on schedule.  That is where you typically win and lose the Football game and instead of sealing the deal, they had to rely on a missed FG in OT.  You're not going to get a depleted Titans w/ their best pass rusher out who's defense sucks every week.  The good new is, he has another chance to get after it next week vs. Atlanta and then 2 weeks to prepare for New England.  Getting some rhythm and confidence will go a long way but what I hope this coaching staff does while he has off, is give him some serious pocket/footwork homework so he can start completing really what should be the easier stuff.  

 

 

All true, but it is the pocket stuff that usually develops last. Processing takes time and it takes a level of comfort. He is still jumpy out there and his mind is going a million miles a minute. You can see it in the way that he plays. The "easier" misses that he made were from those pocket type of plays.

The game should start to slow down for him at some point, hopefully. A little bit of success should help that. 

A huge plus is that he seems to be very able to diagnose a defense based on what he is seeing pre-snap, and able to use that to help guide his decisions post snap. That is one of my larger take aways. Darnold was much more a robot back there, seemingly. 

Still a lot of growth needed, but yesterday was a fun glimpse.

[Sonny Werblin]

The more i see of Wilson, the more i think he’d be better suited by playing in an Air Coryell/Greatest Show on Turf offense with more deeper/attacking throws. His mobility makes people say Rodgers is his comp. I don’t think he really has a comp. Guys with a release and arm strength like Wilson are not typically mobile. He’s like Marino, Warner or Fouts with wheels.

Even Andy Reid realized he had to tailor his WCO to Mahomes deep passing talent.

[rtnelson]

It's still so early.  A lot of young QB's are going to get a win with scrappy plays like Zach made today, which gets people excited.  As he gets more comfortable in structure, gets more time with Crowder, Cole, Moore, Davis all in the lineup I think that starts to develop more pocket passing success.

I do think the key to future success is to build around Zach's talents.  You'll win a lot of football games if you protect a gunslinger up front and give him a lot of weapons to throw to.  His ability to vertically challenge the defense will open up the run game as opposed to the run game opening up the pass.

Going in to this season the CS were clearly going for the opposite which is why we're seeing a lot of, run, run, incomplete, punt drives.  As the core continues to gel, I think the offense will continue to open up, and we'll start to see why we were all predicting that the offense was the "strong" point of this team going in to the season.

That being said, it's easy to see how Cole and Davis dropping those long passes result in an ugly loss that looks exactly like the previous games  It does make you consider even more how big some of those drops were.

 

[sackdance]

10 hours ago, johnnyjet said:

4 Games in and you’ve come up with the brilliant deduction that Zach is terribly inaccurate. Yet he made throws today we haven’t seen since Testaverde.  He made things happen by moving in the pocket, last jet QBs to do that ?  Yeah none is the answer.  Your comments could not be more wrong.  That’s my opinion as a 50 year Jet fan. 

But "Geno is still a backup in the league today so there’s hope for Zach."?

I seriously hope that guy is a troll and not a fellow Jet fan. 

 

 

[Uncle Nicco]

1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

Yeah, I dont think you can consistently win Football games off schedule like that and that's where this thread has lost me a bit when comparing him to Sam.  As we saw with Sam, that was really his only redeeming quality while here and it's not really what you want your QB doing to have to score points.  That said, it's a fantastic weapon to have in your arsenal and I think Zach has a little more tricks up his sleeve than Darnold when they have to go off script just because off his downfield accuracy. 

That said, the pocket stuff is still very messy and he has to get better at completing passes from the pocket, on schedule.  That is where you typically win and lose the Football game and instead of sealing the deal, they had to rely on a missed FG in OT.  You're not going to get a depleted Titans w/ their best pass rusher out who's defense sucks every week.  The good new is, he has another chance to get after it next week vs. Atlanta and then 2 weeks to prepare for New England.  Getting some rhythm and confidence will go a long way but what I hope this coaching staff does while he has off, is give him some serious pocket/footwork homework so he can start completing really what should be the easier stuff.  

 

 

How many games has KC won playing back yard football the last 3 years? 

[More Cowbell]

14 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

He legitimately could be on a Mahomes/Rodgers level if the Jets do right by him. His arm strength is elite 

OMG. He has had one good game this season where he missed a wide open WR that he hits him,  the game is over and we are comparing him to the two best QB's in the game. I actually see a lot more Brett Favre that either of those two which isn't  a bad thing either. I just don't  think Zack has shown to be a methodical QB.  

[FidelioJet]

3 minutes ago, Pichula said:

How many games has KC won playing back yard football the last 3 years? 

Of course.  

Yes, Zach has to clean up the 2 or 3 missed throws he made yesterday.  That will come with confidence and being able to trust his WR's that he doesn't have to make the perfect throw for them to catch it and that they'll be where they supposed to.  I'm not concerned with those 2 or 3 misses.  He'll get there.  The offense rely's on incredible amount of timing and precision - between the injuries, so many rookies, bad OL play and WR's dropping so many balls --- it's going to take some time, but that will come together.

It's being able to punish defenses with a QB playmaker that will separate him.  He's going to be a star.

 

[FidelioJet]

5 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

OMG. He has had one good game this season where he missed a wide open WR that he hits him,  the game is over and we are comparing him to the two best QB's in the game. I actually see a lot more Brett Favre that either of those two which isn't  a bad thing either. I just don't  think Zack has shown to be a methodical QB.  

This determination after 4 games as a pro?

[More Cowbell]

11 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This determination after 4 games as a pro?

He has shown nothing to make me think this yet. That doesn't  mean he won't  be but it is pretty obvious this kid will choose the splash play over the short first down pass if they are both there. That isn't a bad thing. But it does hurt. Zack has not displayed good touch on short passes and he needs this in his game. The throw to the TE was into his feet and the one to davis on the out was way over thrown. Maybe it's  nerves but Rogers makes that throw in his sleep. 

[Biggs]

We have a sh*tty line, crappy running backs and at best mediocre WR's based on the actual level of WR play in the NFL in 2021.  We also have a totally inexperienced OC trying to run a scheme that he likely doesn't fully understand.

In spite of that Zach has shown a level of toughness and talent that gave us a chance to win and we actually won.  

TN is a very good NFL team who's WR room was as pedestrian as ours is yesterday.  They have an experienced QB who's been to the playoffs and has years under his belt.  Zach was an actual difference maker.

The kid has shown his tough and his talented.  He's also a film junky.  The team hasn't lifted him the team has put him in a giant hole.  He's climbing out of it.  He dragged the team forward yesterday.  If we don't get him killed  he's got a shot to be an elite NFL QB.  The kid has a monster arm, quick release, great footspeed and he's commited to be great.  

Yesterday's game didn't change any of that.  He's adjusting and the league is going to have to adjust to him.  He's a huge upgrade for this team.  We haven't had a talent like this at QB since the 60's.  And unlike that talent he's physically healthy and he isn't coming to games with a hangover. 

 

[FidelioJet]

10 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

He has shown nothing to make me think this yet. That doesn't  mean he won't  be but it is pretty obvious this kid will choose the splash play over the short first down pass if they are both there. That isn't a bad thing. But it does hurt. Zack has not displayed good touch on short passes and he needs this in his game. The throw to the TE was into his feet and the one to davis on the out was way over thrown. Maybe it's  nerves but Rogers makes that throw in his sleep. 

Week 4 of his NFL career and he's being held to the Aaron Rodgers standard.

I really want you to reflect on that a minute.  You can point to two bad throws, while simply ignoring all the other good throws he made from the pocket.  He as quite accurate all game.  

by the way, I couldn't agree more that those are throws he has to learn to make, but he's been plenty accurate...All these QB's miss throws, it's part of the game.  Those two sucked, for sure, but let's not pretend like those are his standard, they are the outliers.  He's only going to get better on those timing throws.  Just a matter of repetition.

[Rhg1084]

50 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

OMG. He has had one good game this season where he missed a wide open WR that he hits him,  the game is over and we are comparing him to the two best QB's in the game. I actually see a lot more Brett Favre that either of those two which isn't  a bad thing either. I just don't  think Zack has shown to be a methodical QB.  

Bro he put the ball 60 yards in the air on a dime to Corey. We’ve never had a QB that can do that. The kid has all the physical tools in the world to be one of the next best QBs in football. If you can’t see that I don’t know what your watching 

[JustInFudge]

57 minutes ago, Pichula said:

How many games has KC won playing back yard football the last 3 years? 

Not many.  Thats exaclty how you beat KC, force Mahomes to constantly create as opposed to let them get into a rhythm.  When forced to only play off script for an entire game, they're not good.  See: Super Bowl.

What makes Mahomes the best in the world is he does both at an elite level.  He sprinkles the off script stuff into his on schedule game and that's why he is who he is.

The good news, it's Zach Wilson's 4th game of his career and he's far from a finished product.  Plenty of time to learn the nuances and how to be a better pocket passer.  Mahomes had the luxury of sitting his entire rookie season and playing on a much much better Football team.  So, yesterday was super encouraging for Zachkapono.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

His mobility makes people say Rodgers is his comp. I don’t think he really has a comp. Guys with a release and arm strength like Wilson are not typically mobile. He’s like Marino, Warner or Fouts with wheels.

That sounds very impressive, when your 'comp' is a combo of 4x Hall of Famers.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

After FOUR games of seeing Zach Wilson, I have determined just one thing. That kid can flick it, seemingly effortlessly. I have also seen accuracy problems, which hopefully is just nerves. He has missed way too many wide receivers with the ball either sputtering or being out of reach. I am encouraged, but I am not shipping him off to Canton just yet.

[thebuzzardman]

This "playground" take is one of the stupidest things I've read in a while. 

I figure it's nice to have a QB who has arm talent, can improvise and has some balls. Extra confidence. 

Let's do the basketball analogy. There are some players that are fundamentally sound, but lack the balls and schoolyard improvisation. Those guys have higher floors but way lower ceilings. Then there are the guys who can make schoolyard/playground/backyard plays and have the confidence and skill to improvise. If those guys are also fundamentally sound, they are usually very very good players. 

Generally, it's better to have the second kind of player and hope to train them up and build the fundamentals. I think that's the case with Zach. Hey, he might not ultimately work out for a variety of reasons, but better to start with a player with that kind of arm talent and massive set of balls then some fundamental JAG kind of QB. 

Maybe if Geno wasn't a giant d*uche he would have turned out ok as well. 

[Jetfuel66]

11 hours ago, Pichula said:

 

 

This play says it all. The composure, the coolness...... how many QB's would have just dove on that ball?  And then to scoop it up and sling a perfect pass 30 yards!  This kids gonna be a Killer!!

[Claymation]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Of course.  

Yes, Zach has to clean up the 2 or 3 missed throws he made yesterday.  That will come with confidence and being able to trust his WR's that he doesn't have to make the perfect throw for them to catch it and that they'll be where they supposed to.  I'm not concerned with those 2 or 3 misses.  He'll get there.  The offense rely's on incredible amount of timing and precision - between the injuries, so many rookies, bad OL play and WR's dropping so many balls --- it's going to take some time, but that will come together.

It's being able to punish defenses with a QB playmaker that will separate him.  He's going to be a star.

 

I understand your point, but when are his teammates going to help him out. Catch the ball that is a little low or just off the mark. Outside of Crowder, does anyone?

But you are correct he is going to be a star. 

[nyjunc]

He has a lot of work to do but he's the most talented young QB we've had in my lifetime.  It's a really exciting time to a Jet fan.

[Sonny Werblin]

37 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

After FOUR games of seeing Zach Wilson, I have determined just one thing. That kid can flick it, seemingly effortlessly. I have also seen accuracy problems, which hopefully is just nerves. He has missed way too many wide receivers with the ball either sputtering or being out of reach. I am encouraged, but I am not shipping him off to Canton just yet.

I'd have to go look at them all, but the griffith and David misses were throws he did not plant and throw in. I'm pretty sure both were made while falling away when there was room to step and throw.

[Sonny Werblin]

42 minutes ago, Warfish said:

That sounds very impressive, when your 'comp' is a combo of 4x Hall of Famers.

Man, I am old and have watched a lot of football. I know you have too. Am I just seeing it through Emerald colored glasses? Or, is Wilson's release and ball flight just something you rarely see from and NFL QB? 

[Jetluv58]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Of course.  

Yes, Zach has to clean up the 2 or 3 missed throws he made yesterday.  That will come with confidence and being able to trust his WR's that he doesn't have to make the perfect throw for them to catch it and that they'll be where they supposed to.  I'm not concerned with those 2 or 3 misses.  He'll get there.  The offense rely's on incredible amount of timing and precision - between the injuries, so many rookies, bad OL play and WR's dropping so many balls --- it's going to take some time, but that will come together.

It's being able to punish defenses with a QB playmaker that will separate him.  He's going to be a star.

 

He'll probably always have 2-3 missed throws. He's a human.  Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, etc probably have 2-3 missed throws every game.     Let's just enjoy this one win for five minutes.

[Jetluv58]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

He has shown nothing to make me think this yet. That doesn't  mean he won't  be but it is pretty obvious this kid will choose the splash play over the short first down pass if they are both there. That isn't a bad thing. But it does hurt. Zack has not displayed good touch on short passes and he needs this in his game. The throw to the TE was into his feet and the one to davis on the out was way over thrown. Maybe it's  nerves but Rogers makes that throw in his sleep. 

And Rogers has been in the league 16 years.

[FidelioJet]

13 minutes ago, Jetluv58 said:

He'll probably always have 2-3 missed throws. He's a human.  Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, etc probably have 2-3 missed throws every game.     Let's just enjoy this one win for five minutes.

Agreed.  ZW just happened to miss two that were a really bad time to miss...but that will be worked out.

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Week 4 of his NFL career and he's being held to the Aaron Rodgers standard.

I really want you to reflect on that a minute.  You can point to two bad throws, while simply ignoring all the other good throws he made from the pocket.  He as quite accurate all game.  

by the way, I couldn't agree more that those are throws he has to learn to make, but he's been plenty accurate...All these QB's miss throws, it's part of the game.  Those two sucked, for sure, but let's not pretend like those are his standard, they are the outliers.  He's only going to get better on those timing throws.  Just a matter of repetition.

Not from me. I was commenting  on another  poster comparing him to Rogers and Mahomes 

[Scott Dierking]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

That sounds very impressive, when your 'comp' is a combo of 4x Hall of Famers.

Someone in the gameday thread said a decent comp is Kenny Stabler, and I personally like that one. 

[Scott Dierking]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

This determination after 4 games as a pro?

Not to be critical of you t all, but your take this weekend, in the thread bout the offensive line scheme needing time, was that the Jets would ruin ZW. Did yesterday help move that feeling at all?

And the middle of the Jets line is trash right now.

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

That sounds very impressive, when your 'comp' is a combo of 4x Hall of Famers.

Personally I think he looks like Lance Bass but has Timberlake talent.

jmho

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, Rhg1084 said:

Bro he put the ball 60 yards in the air on a dime to Corey. We’ve never had a QB that can do that. The kid has all the physical tools in the world to be one of the next best QBs in football. If you can’t see that I don’t know what your watching 

Ok, I don't  think you ever saw VT,  ot O'brien. Both had cannon arms and were accurate. I know it wqs a long time ago but you said we never had this. What I'm saying is he shouldn't  be compared to guys that are the best until he shows he can make the throws that end games. He hits Davis and we never have to go to OT and I am not cursing at my TV that we are going to end in a tie. Fortunately  Bullock  missed. 

[More Cowbell]

22 minutes ago, Jetluv58 said:

And Rogers has been in the league 16 years.

And what I am saying is he shouldn't  be compared to him. 

[jago]

I actually see a lot more Brett Favre that either of those two which isn't  a bad thing either. I just don't  think Zack has shown to be a methodical QB.  

thats what i see, favre. but lets hope he can develop the other qualities with reps and experience. he’s been advertised as a strong study too.

[FidelioJet]

10 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Not to be critical of you t all, but your take this weekend, in the thread bout the offensive line scheme needing time, was that the Jets would ruin ZW. Did yesterday help move that feeling at all?

And the middle of the Jets line is trash right now.

Yup.

I was VERY happy to be wrong. 

The OL played really well.  They gave Zach time, not great time, but certainly enough to make plays.  Which, at this point, is all we can really ask of them.  It was night and day.

Just like Zach's performance, let's hope the OL wasn't a one time thing and they continue to get better.

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

Yup.

I was VERY happy to be wrong. 

The OL played really well.  They gave Zach time, not great time, but certainly enough to make plays.  Which, at this point, is all we can really ask of them.  It was night and day.

Just like Zach's performance, let's hope the OL wasn't a one time thing and they continue to get better.

And, you may not be wrong. This was one week. One week against a fairly poor defense. 

There will be more New England type games where lumps will be taken. Hopefully the learning continues to build upon itself.

The bottom line exciting part of this is that we appear to have a QB with a greater toolset than we have seen in some time. And a head to go along with that.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Man, I am old and have watched a lot of football. I know you have too. Am I just seeing it through Emerald colored glasses? Or, is Wilson's release and ball flight just something you rarely see from and NFL QB? 

He has top-end potential, I think that is clear.  His arm strength is materially better than I expected, and his toughness and durability, so far, has exceeded my expectations.  I wouldn't say "rarely see" in terms of ball flight, release or power, most NFL QB's these days of any account can drop a bomb here and there, but it does feel like a long-passing game might actually be a thing in NY for us again, after a long while of it being meh.  His accuracy overall tho, not quite up to snuff yet (not horrible, just not great yet either.)

I just get a little careful comparing rookie QB's in game 4 to multiple-HOF'ers at once.  He could be that good, to be sure,, and there may be some similarity visually/results wise in specific moments, it just feels hyperbolic to me this early to get that far ahead of ourselves.  While he may "look like Marino" one play because of a specific attribute, he can also look like the worst QB bust on other plays lol.  Remember, last week half this board wanted to either bench him or sign a veteran QB, lol.

He is neither of those things, he's a rookie with a ton of talent figuring his way forward, so he can be Wilson, not some other guy.  Maybe I'm too cynical and have seen too many "he looks like Rodgers" comments over the years to believe it so easily, lol.