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Belichick without Brady...


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1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

Mac Jones looked like jr Brady to me ... pinpoint accuracy , superb timing, fantastic quick reads, good ore snap recognition.

Just sayin.



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He had the refs giving him gifts all night with those asinine PI calls every 3rd down

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He is a great coach but also a terrible GM.  He has made so many terrible gm move covered by having the hof QB.

As I said before the draft, Mac Jones is good and the type of Qb you can win with even if he is not a guy to carry a team on his back.  They totally lucked into him.

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6 hours ago, sourceworx said:

Most overrated head coach of all time. The guy stepped in sh!t 21 years ago.  If it weren't for Tom Brady, he'd be the defensive equivalent of Norv Turner.

And his D Co. son is uglier than he is if that is even possible. That viral video of the kid sticking out his tongue is rediculous especially when you end up losing the game.

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i didn't watch but was surprised when i heard it was 19-17 and folk missed the game winner.  to call bellichicken a bad coach because of this game is just wrong.  remember these are the superbowl champs led by the goat and you'd think they would have their way.  yes it's still a loss  and bellichiken is still an evil person but he's also still the premier coach in the league.

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6 minutes ago, rangerous said:

i didn't watch but was surprised when i heard it was 19-17 and folk missed the game winner.  to call bellichicken a bad coach because of this game is just wrong.  remember these are the superbowl champs led by the goat and you'd think they would have their way.  yes it's still a loss  and bellichiken is still an evil person but he's also still the premier coach in the league.

No one is calling him a bad coach because of his game(though sending out folk for a career high tying FG in the rain with a minute left was stupid) or even calling him a bad coach.  He has 8 years of mostly mediocre results without the best QB of all time under center.  It's completely fair to question the genius of Bill Belichick as a HC.

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3 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Mac Jones looked like jr Brady to me ... pinpoint accuracy , superb timing, fantastic quick reads, good ore snap recognition.

Just sayin.



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He fits their system well.  We'll see if he can stretch the field when teams start taking the underneath stuff away.  

I'd be pretty excited for him if I was a Pats fan.  

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14 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

No one is calling him a bad coach because of his game(though sending out folk for a career high tying FG in the rain with a minute left was stupid) or even calling him a bad coach.  He has 8 years of mostly mediocre results without the best QB of all time under center.  It's completely fair to question the genius of Bill Belichick as a HC.

well we'll see.  obviously this is the year when the bellichicken can pretty much be out of brady's shadow.  all of the old guard players like edelman are gone and he has a rookie qb.  i know people point to his time in cleveland but that was with a bad owner and starting with a completely done kosar.  and his browns team did make the playoffs once.  i think he's a great coach and would still have rather had him as jets coach than any other, at least up to 5 years ago.

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7 hours ago, Jetluv58 said:

Not sure what the point of this post is. He beat us a couple of weeks back. Until we beat him, he still has OUR number, regardless of the rest of his story.

Who doesn't have our number? It's not really an accomplishment beating the Jets. You basically just have to show up.

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1 hour ago, isired said:
3 hours ago, Albaniajet said:
I guess “turned around” = 6-10
 
Belichick - Brady = Al Groh
 
 

They were 11-5 in 1994, then started 1995 3-1 as a favorite to reach the super bowl. They went 1-7 after the public announcement of the move.

He’s going to finish with 5-6 wins this year even with the refs blowing him

 

Most overrated coach since Phil Jackson

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1 hour ago, rangerous said:

well we'll see.  obviously this is the year when the bellichicken can pretty much be out of brady's shadow.  all of the old guard players like edelman are gone and he has a rookie qb.  i know people point to his time in cleveland but that was with a bad owner and starting with a completely done kosar.  and his browns team did make the playoffs once.  i think he's a great coach and would still have rather had him as jets coach than any other, at least up to 5 years ago.

The Browns made the AFC Championship Game 3 times in the 5 years before Belichick, they won a Super Bowl as the Ravens 5 years after Belichick- all with that same bad owner.

Bernie Kosar was 28 years old when Belichick took over.

 

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1 hour ago, isired said:
3 hours ago, Albaniajet said:
I guess “turned around” = 6-10
 
Belichick - Brady = Al Groh
 
 

They were 11-5 in 1994, then started 1995 3-1 as a favorite to reach the super bowl. They went 1-7 after the public announcement of the move.

They were 4-5 after losing 3 of 4 BEFORE the move was announced.  The Steelers, who crushed them in the playoffs a year earlier, went 11-5 so if they don't announce the move they still would have had to run the table and win their last 7 games to have a chance at the division.

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They were 4-5 after losing 3 of 4 BEFORE the move was announced.  The Steelers, who crushed them in the playoffs a year earlier, went 11-5 so if they don't announce the move they still would have had to run the table and win their last 7 games to have a chance at the division.
They were 4-4 and tied for 1st in the AFC Central with Pittsburgh when Modell told the team, the night before a divisional home game vs the Oilers. I don't know who knew what before then. Ozzie Newsome is the only one that I recall saying he k ew before Modell told the team. It was publicly announced on Nov 8.
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He took Matt Cassel to a 11 and 5 record. 

For me, others will disagree, he's the GOAT coach and for me, also, Brady is the one who is over-rated. There are few, very few, seasons where I can definitively state Brady was the best QB in the league for that season, let alone the best of all time. Not saying he's not a great, just not the greatest. I think title wins are largely over-rated for QBs especially given its a 46 man game. 

There have been big games where Brady's deficiencies have been well on display and he's been exposed. I think he was exposed the other day vs the Patriots who are not exactly awash with talent on either side of the ball these days. 

This is not to deny Belichick is also a cheat. 

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30 minutes ago, PLO said:

He took Matt Cassel to a 11 and 5 record. 

For me, others will disagree, he's the GOAT coach and for me, also, Brady is the one who is over-rated. There are few, very few, seasons where I can definitively state Brady was the best QB in the league for that season, let alone the best of all time. Not saying he's not a great, just not the greatest. I think title wins are largely over-rated for QBs especially given its a 46 man game. 

There have been big games where Brady's deficiencies have been well on display and he's been exposed. I think he was exposed the other day vs the Patriots who are not exactly awash with talent on either side of the ball these days. 

This is not to deny Belichick is also a cheat. 

Bill Walsh and Bill Parcells both better.  And neither had the greatest qb ever for 20 years

 

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15 minutes ago, Albaniajet said:

Bill Walsh and Bill Parcells both better.  And neither had the greatest qb ever for 20 years

 

Brady isn't the best QB ever though, for me that's not even close. Brady won the SB last year but was he a better QB than Rodgers or Mahomes for the season? Not even close. Takes 46 players out of a 53 man roster to win games. 

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Just now, PLO said:

Brady isn't the best QB ever though, for me that's not even close. Brady won the SB last year but was he a better QB than Rodgers or Mahomes for the season? Not even close. Takes 46 players out of a 53 man roster to win games. 

There is literally not even a semi valid argument right now that Tom Brady isn’t the GOAT QB by every possible metric

 

And I’ve rooted passionately against Brady up until he left New England.  I only occasionally root for the guy now because him doing well is chiseling away at this silly narrative that Belichick is this all-time genius of football 

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6 minutes ago, Albaniajet said:

There is literally not even a semi valid argument right now that Tom Brady isn’t the GOAT QB by every possible metric

 

And I’ve rooted passionately against Brady up until he left New England.  I only occasionally root for the guy now because him doing well is chiseling away at this silly narrative that Belichick is this all-time genius of football 

Issue is he isn't the best "by every possible metric", he was never as good as Peyton at their respective peaks, never as good as a Rodgers or Mahomes among others. Quite simply he just couldn't do what those others could or can. He's the winningest QB of all time and has a number of other stat lines that just show his longevity. 

You could argue he's had the most valuable career, and that's a very good argument given his longevity. The best, though, as in the best overall peak? He quite clearly isn't the best and never has been. 

For me the main prop for "the best" argument are the number of titles, but its a bit like claiming Robert Horry was a better basketball player than Michael Jordan because he has more NBA titles. 

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6 minutes ago, PLO said:

Issue is he isn't the best "by every possible metric", he was never as good as Peyton at their respective peaks, never as good as a Rodgers or Mahomes among others. Quite simply he just couldn't do what those others could or can. He's the winningest QB of all time and has a number of other stat lines that just show his longevity. 

You could argue he's had the most valuable career, and that's a very good argument given his longevity. The best, though, as in the best overall peak? He quite clearly isn't the best and never has been. 

For me the main prop for "the best" argument are the number of titles, but its a bit like claiming Robert Horry was a better basketball player than Michael Jordan because he has more NBA titles. 

You’re comparing Brady to Robert Horry?  Stop

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1 minute ago, Albaniajet said:

You’re comparing Brady to Robert Horry?  Stop

The comparison was to show how bad the "number of titles" argument is, which it is. 

You're saying Brady is/was a better QB at his peak than Mahomes, which is patently absurd. Brady could only dream about making some of the throws Mahomes can. That's a fact. 

The fact one has one title and the other has seven doesn't mean Brady is or was a better QB than Mahomes, just means one has had the greatest coach of all time in his corner for most of his career, and then got to hand pick a team laden with talent where he could go to after his Pats career finished. 

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10 minutes ago, PLO said:

The comparison was to show how bad the "number of titles" argument is, which it is. 

You're saying Brady is/was a better QB at his peak than Mahomes, which is patently absurd. Brady could only dream about making some of the throws Mahomes can. That's a fact. 

The fact one has one title and the other has seven doesn't mean Brady is or was a better QB than Mahomes, just means one has had the greatest coach of all time in his corner for most of his career, and then got to hand pick a team laden with talent where he could go to after his Pats career finished. 

Tom Brady was the starting QB and MVP on all those teams that won Super Bowls.  Robert Horry was a role playing combo forward who sometimes just came off the bench

 

The argument goes both ways to if you think Peyton Manning is better.  Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Demariyus Thomas and Edgerrin James aren’t chopped liver

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14 hours ago, isired said:

Tampa Bay was averaging 4+ TDs and just under 38 pts/game. Last night they struggled to get a single TD and half their usual point total. The guy is doing something right.

It was also raining all game and Brady was missing wide open receivers

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25 minutes ago, PLO said:

The comparison was to show how bad the "number of titles" argument is, which it is. 

You're saying Brady is/was a better QB at his peak than Mahomes, which is patently absurd. Brady could only dream about making some of the throws Mahomes can. That's a fact. 

The fact one has one title and the other has seven doesn't mean Brady is or was a better QB than Mahomes, just means one has had the greatest coach of all time in his corner for most of his career, and then got to hand pick a team laden with talent where he could go to after his Pats career finished. 

Brady was will be better than Mahomes until or of Mahomes out does Brady’s accomplishments.  10 SBs and 7 SB wins are going to be hard to match
 

Arm strength etc is a bad argument.  

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7 hours ago, rangerous said:

well we'll see.  obviously this is the year when the bellichicken can pretty much be out of brady's shadow.  all of the old guard players like edelman are gone and he has a rookie qb.  i know people point to his time in cleveland but that was with a bad owner and starting with a completely done kosar.  and his browns team did make the playoffs once.  i think he's a great coach and would still have rather had him as jets coach than any other, at least up to 5 years ago.

Last 2 years he's 8-12 without Brady and his record all time without Brady is below .500. Brady has always been the reason he's going to HOF. 

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5 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Brady was will be better than Mahomes until or of Mahomes out does Brady’s accomplishments.  10 SBs and 7 SB wins are going to be hard to match
 

Arm strength etc is a bad argument.  

Titles isn't a good argument though. Never has been, never will be. 

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5 hours ago, Albaniajet said:

Tom Brady was the starting QB and MVP on all those teams that won Super Bowls.  Robert Horry was a role playing combo forward who sometimes just came off the bench

 

The argument goes both ways to if you think Peyton Manning is better.  Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Demariyus Thomas and Edgerrin James aren’t chopped liver

Peyton changed the way the game was played though, Brady didn't. 

Brady was made into Brady by Belichick, there's a reason he was picked in the 6th round. In 2007 he had arguably the greatest roster ever assembled to play with but couldn't close the deal. 

I'm not saying he isn't great, inarguably he is, IMO he isn't the GOAT. 

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