So... Wilson went off-script and won. Did Lafleur earn any credit?

[Paradis]

Thoughts on this?

The offense remained idle for long stretches of time (we blew 2 drives to put the game away). The bulk of our big moments came from Wilson just doing his thing.... So, basically the players had to ball out, and Mike's play-calling didn't "open things up" - though i saw a few moments of Zach getting stuck on his first read... (which the broadcast team hung a lantern on the open CD for a TD)

The 2nd down draw plays became painfully telegraphed. The lack of misdirection and often predictability given the down/distance overall was, again, very uninspiring.

Who needs to adjust more, Zach or Mike after that last game. 

[Claymation]

I read somewhere that LaFleur decided to open up the game. The defense was loading the box to stop the run and felt they could get chunk plays through the air. The running game won't get going until the defense starts respecting Zach's arm.

[Uncle Nicco]

LaFleur is still clueless

he should have built an entire offense around the deep passing game and Wilson’s strengths

 

[nj meadowlands]

Anyone else who was at the game notice where LaFleur stands when the Jets have the ball?  He literally stands on the opposite 30 yard line, by himself.  It makes no sense to me.

[SAR I]

Considering he didn't call any of the plays that actually won the game, no.

He thinks we can run the ball.  Clueless.

SAR I

[Jimmy 2 Times]

Let the dude grow into this role.  If it doesn't get better than its on coach to make an upgrade. 

Although I'd hate to fall into the trap of swapping OC's every other year.  

Maybe it's better to let Zach grow in this system and in another year he can just change the calls at the line and do his own sh*t.  

[rangerous]

bashing lafleur is just silly.  even if wilson was going "off-script" it also means the receivers were too and this means that in certain situations the receivers need to break off their patterns to help the qb.  and at the end of the day, i'm sure there may have been only a couple of plays that could be construed as off script.  of course one was that td pass to davis where wilson motioned him to go deep.

i don't know if lafleur is a good oc or not.  he's trying to develop a  scheme that works and that means having a good run game to go along with the passing.  we'll see how it all works out.

[Barry McCockinner]

To me the most important measure of a good coach is seeing improvement over time. The floor has been set and it's low. I'm looking for improvement over the course of the season and won't be making snap judgements with a rookie OC coaching the youngest roster in the league including a rookie QB. 

 

[FidelioJet]

He was better yesterday.  

He called a pretty good game.  I hate the 3rd and goal from the 1 in OT call - but otherwise it wasn't terrible.  Better.

He clearly designed some things to work with what ZW does best.  He has to maintain a commitment  to the run - if for no other reason than to keep the defense honest.

Putting the play calling aside...it looks like the players are getting better in their assignments too.

Less confusion on the OL - less free rushers, less WR's running the wrong routes...The team is learning the system and ML has to get some credit for that.

[Integrity28]

Like Favre and Schotty Jr all over again.

[Paradis]

32 minutes ago, rangerous said:

bashing lafleur is just silly.  even if wilson was going "off-script" it also means the receivers were too and this means that in certain situations the receivers need to break off their patterns to help the qb.  and at the end of the day, i'm sure there may have been only a couple of plays that could be construed as off script.  of course one was that td pass to davis where wilson motioned him to go deep.

I can't say any of this makes sense to me. This isn't Burger King. He's in a leadership role, and there's accountability.

The Jets won because Wilson said "fck this" and rolled out and wound up doubling the stat sheet... how you can dismiss the point being made. Count the number of 2nd down draw plays that went for a loss or 2 yards or less., or the routes ran falling short of 1st downs.

I'm sorry, but your reply is overtly dismissing a valid concern. 

[Snell41]

Zach left wide open receivers all over the field and Davis decided he’d start the game with Stone hands and ice skates. Nothing about the flaws of this week’s game was on LaFleur. The offense left a ton of plays on the field that were there for the taking


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[Snell41]

I can't say any of this makes sense to me. This isn't Burger King. He's in a leadership role, and there's accountability.
The Jets won because Wilson said "fck this" and rolled out and wound up doubling the stat sheet... how you can dismiss the point being made. Count the number of 2nd down draw plays that went for a loss or 2 yards or less., or the routes ran falling short of 1st downs.
I'm sorry, but your reply is overtly dismissing a valid concern. 

The only reason Zach said “fck this” is because he hasn’t processed the play appropriately. Receivers were open repeatedly.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Team archer]

49 minutes ago, Pichula said:

LaFleur is still clueless

he should have built an entire offense around the deep passing game and Wilson’s strengths

 

You can’t when your #1 keeps dropping the ball. Keelan also just got back this game right? Who’s the other deep threat? Mims? Yeah they hate him. Remember the first 2 games was no crowder no Cole and barely any Mims so what deep passing game was going to work with the rest of the team?

[Jethead]

10 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I can't say any of this makes sense to me. This isn't Burger King. He's in a leadership role, and there's accountability.

The Jets won because Wilson said "fck this" and rolled out and wound up doubling the stat sheet... how you can dismiss the point being made. Count the number of 2nd down draw plays that went for a loss or 2 yards or less., or the routes ran falling short of 1st downs.

I'm sorry, but your reply is overtly dismissing a valid concern. 

Concern is legit, Mikey gets a 'needs improvement" on his first marking period grade. But, he's a rookie too. Let's see where they all are after 17 games. We will have a good idea if any of the key pieces aren't up to the task. If they all grow together we have a chance for something really special.

[FidelioJet]

8 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

Zach left wide open receivers all over the field and Davis decided he’d start the game with Stone hands and ice skates. Nothing about the flaws of this week’s game was on LaFleur. The offense left a ton of plays on the field that were there for the taking


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

This just couldn’t be more inaccurate. 

[Gastineau Lives]

13 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

Zach left wide open receivers all over the field and Davis decided he’d start the game with Stone hands and ice skates. Nothing about the flaws of this week’s game was on LaFleur. The offense left a ton of plays on the field that were there for the taking


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[#27TheDominator]

Yep  that LaFleur blew those two drives.  I mean he missed Corey Davis on an easy out and missed Griffin who was wandering around by himself on the 3 yard line.  Is he supposed to block the plays and throw the ******* ball too? 

[Lith]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

Thoughts on this?

The offense remained idle for long stretches of time (we blew 2 drives to put the game away). The bulk of our big moments came from Wilson just doing his thing.... So, basically the players had to ball out, and Mike's play-calling didn't "open things up" - though i saw a few moments of Zach getting stuck on his first read... (which the broadcast team hung a lantern on the open CD for a TD)

The 2nd down draw plays became painfully telegraphed. The lack of misdirection and often predictability given the down/distance overall was, again, very uninspiring.

Who needs to adjust more, Zach or Mike after that last game. 

Biggest concern I have rigth now is the slow starts.  If it wasnt for the red zone defense, we could have been down 3 scores before we finally got someting going mid way through the 2nd quarter.  We have to find a way to get going early in games, and to me, that is Lafleur's challenge.  He has to find ways to get Zach and the offense in rhythym early.

That siad, yesterday, we saw progress., and I snapped my personal 10 game losing streak dating back to 2015.  I am going take that and be happy with it. 

At least until Sunday morning.

 

[Warfish]

13 more games before this topic is worth all the sturm und drang.

Personally, I'll evaluate how I feel about Coach L. on the totality of the 2021 season and the improvement shown over the course of the season.

Not just the first 2, 3 or 4 games.

We are literally in no rush.  Absolutely nothing is going to change in re: Coach L. during this season.

So why not wait, and see what the whole picture looks like, not just one small corner?

 

[kdels62]

You’re not wrong but there was progress. Wilson missed 2 passes to win the game that were well schemed. The first drive to score was well called and featured shorter throws. Work in progress but better from LeFleur and much better from Wilson. 

[FidelioJet]

9 minutes ago, Lith said:

Biggest concern I have rigth now is the slow starts.  If it wasnt for the red zone defense, we could have been down 3 scores before we finally got someting going mid way through the 2nd quarter.  We have to find a way to get going early in games, and to me, that is Lafleur's challenge.  He has to find ways to get Zach and the offense in rhythym early.

That siad, yesterday, we saw progress., and I snapped my personal 10 game losing streak dating back to 2015.  I am going take that and be happy with it. 

At least until Sunday morning.

 

Well, ML can't do a whole lo lot when WR's are dropping balls on 3rd down conversion and slipping on the turf when they run their routes.

You would like to give Zach an easy one to get him in a groove...He does seem to over throw that first one - over excitement.  Let's get him an easy one to settle in.

[RoadFan]

Lafleur was much better yesterday.  

The end around to Berrios was clever and well-timed.  ZW had more outlets to get the ball out quick.   
 

My confidence in him is still low but he took responsibility, made changes, and they worked.    That is all I can hope for…. 
 

 

[JustInFudge]

On 10/4/2021 at 6:07 PM, Paradis said:

I can't say any of this makes sense to me. This isn't Burger King. He's in a leadership role, and there's accountability.

The Jets won because Wilson said "fck this" and rolled out and wound up doubling the stat sheet... how you can dismiss the point being made. Count the number of 2nd down draw plays that went for a loss or 2 yards or less., or the routes ran falling short of 1st downs.

I'm sorry, but your reply is overtly dismissing a valid concern. 

Meh, he called a few great plays that Zach didnt make and a couple of times Zach went off script and it didnt work.  And I dont think saying "**** this" is an accurate depiction of what happened, he was evading pressure in some of these situations other then roll out where he just went boss mode and told Davis to go long.

I think you need to give Lafleur credit.  He definitely opened it up more this game.  With Crowder available running the underneath stuff it enabled him to have Cole and Davis running deeper routes more frequently.  Braxton Berrios had 1 target. 20 to Davis, Crowder, Cole.  13 targets to RB's and TE's. 34 pass attempts vs 25 rush attempts  His 2 best plays that were on script was the long ball to Cole on the sideline in OT and the miss handled snap deep cross to Crowder, that ball was actually on script timing wise oddly enough, which Zach confirmed.  He doubled his yards per comp this week vs. last week as well. 

I saw screens to RB's, screens to WR's, motion, play action, roll outs, a reverse, etc.  He was behind center, from shotgun, he gave him multiple looks like that when they got down into the redzone as well. 

I'm not here to say he's great and stand on a hill for him but does he get credit?  Ofcourse.  Sure, the offense was sluggish but that was more on Zach missing guys and the team sucks, so I dont know, other then calling the good plays all day every day, what more can he do? 

 

 

[Paradis]

Just now, Snell41 said:

Zach left wide open receivers all over the field and Davis decided he’d start the game with Stone hands and ice skates. Nothing about the flaws of this week’s game was on LaFleur. The offense left a ton of plays on the field 
 

 

 

[doitny]

12 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Meh, he called a few great play that Zach didnt make and a couple of times Zach went off script and it didnt work.  And I dont think saying "**** this" is an accurate depiction of what happened, he was evading pressure in some of these situationsother then roll out where he just went boss mode and told Davis to go long.

I think you need to give Lafleur credit.  He definitely opened it up more this game.  With Crowder available running the underneath stuff it enabled him to have Cole and Davis running deeper routes more frequently.  Braxton Berrios had 1 target. 20 to Davis, Crowder, Cole.  13 targets to RB's and TE's. 34 pass attempts vs 25 rush attempts  His 2 best plays that were on script was the long ball to Cole on the sideline in OT and the miss handled snap deep cross to Crowder, that ball was actually on script timing wise oddly enough, which Zach confirmed.  He doubled his yards per comp this week vs. last week as well. 

I saw screens to RB's, screens to WR's, motion, play action, roll outs, a reverse, etc.  He was behind center, from shotgun, he gave him multiple looks like that when they got down into the redzone as well. 

I'm not here to say he's great and stand on a hill for him but does he get credit?  Ofcourse.  Sure, the offense was sluggish but that was more on Zach missing guys and the team sucks, so I dont know, other then calling the good plays all day every day, what more can he do? 

 

 

+1 

you and @RoadFan where the only ones to mention the end arounds to Berrios which i thought was a good change of pace.

and just to add he mixed his calls. he wasn't predicable like running it on 1st downs every time. 

i am wondering if he will go upstairs the season where he should be. maybe when he gets up there he could be really good. but for this season i think he will be on the sidelines. maybe the best is yet to come for him.

 

[Paradis]

27 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Meh, he called a few great play that Zach didnt make and a couple of times Zach went off script and it didnt work.  And I dont think saying "**** this" is an accurate depiction of what happened, he was evading pressure in some of these situationsother then roll out where he just went boss mode and told Davis to go long.

I think you need to give Lafleur credit.  He definitely opened it up more this game.  With Crowder available running the underneath stuff it enabled him to have Cole and Davis running deeper routes more frequently.  Braxton Berrios had 1 target. 20 to Davis, Crowder, Cole.  13 targets to RB's and TE's. 34 pass attempts vs 25 rush attempts  His 2 best plays that were on script was the long ball to Cole on the sideline in OT and the miss handled snap deep cross to Crowder, that ball was actually on script timing wise oddly enough, which Zach confirmed.  He doubled his yards per comp this week vs. last week as well. 

I saw screens to RB's, screens to WR's, motion, play action, roll outs, a reverse, etc.  He was behind center, from shotgun, he gave him multiple looks like that when they got down into the redzone as well. 

I'm not here to say he's great and stand on a hill for him but does he get credit?  Ofcourse.  Sure, the offense was sluggish but that was more on Zach missing guys and the team sucks, so I dont know, other then calling the good plays all day every day, what more can he do? 

 

 

thanks, and I'd like the point out to the rest of the peanut gallery @#27TheDominator @Snell41  that this thread was offering up the subject FOR discussion... yet they decided to suit up for conjecture.

Each game has looked a lot different. Bit of whack-a-mole will problems that change on any given week so far.

[jvill 51]

39 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Meh, he called a few great play that Zach didnt make and a couple of times Zach went off script and it didnt work.  And I dont think saying "**** this" is an accurate depiction of what happened, he was evading pressure in some of these situationsother then roll out where he just went boss mode and told Davis to go long.

I think you need to give Lafleur credit.  He definitely opened it up more this game.  With Crowder available running the underneath stuff it enabled him to have Cole and Davis running deeper routes more frequently.  Braxton Berrios had 1 target. 20 to Davis, Crowder, Cole.  13 targets to RB's and TE's. 34 pass attempts vs 25 rush attempts  His 2 best plays that were on script was the long ball to Cole on the sideline in OT and the miss handled snap deep cross to Crowder, that ball was actually on script timing wise oddly enough, which Zach confirmed.  He doubled his yards per comp this week vs. last week as well. 

I saw screens to RB's, screens to WR's, motion, play action, roll outs, a reverse, etc.  He was behind center, from shotgun, he gave him multiple looks like that when they got down into the redzone as well. 

I'm not here to say he's great and stand on a hill for him but does he get credit?  Ofcourse.  Sure, the offense was sluggish but that was more on Zach missing guys and the team sucks, so I dont know, other then calling the good plays all day every day, what more can he do? 

 

 

Agreed for the most part here, definitely an improvement this week. The broadcast noted this as well, and should be obvious, but actually sustaining drives and moving the ball let’s you get deeper into the playbook as well and lets the offense get some much needed rhythm.
 

Have to add though: I don’t love to nitpick play calling (which is different, I think, than criticizing play design or concepts) because more often than not it comes down to execution, but I will say that I hate when I watch the Jets and can tell you based on situation/personnel what’s coming. If I can pick up on the tendencies from the couch/the stands, opposing coaches/advanced scouts definitely can. The tendency to run on 2nd and short to mid, and the fact that whenever the second group of receivers (in this game specifically Mims, in the NE game specifically Jeff Smith/Cole) is in the game you’re getting a run or a screen/swing pass is obvious and is getting keyed on. These tendencies need to broken or played off of soon. 

[Jets4Life1979]

the terrible play call on 3rd and goal from the 1 yard line was putrid

[Jimmy 2 Times]

9 minutes ago, jvill 51 said:

 

Have to add though: I don’t love to nitpick play calling (which is different, I think, than criticizing play design or concepts) because more often than not it comes down to execution, but I will say that I hate when I watch the Jets and can tell you based on situation/personnel what’s coming. If I can pick up on the tendencies from the couch/the stands, opposing coaches/advanced scouts definitely can. The tendency to run on 2nd and short to mid, and the fact that whenever the second group of receivers (in this game specifically Mims, in the NE game specifically Jeff Smith/Cole) is in the game you’re getting a run or a screen/swing pass is obvious and is getting keyed on. These tendencies need to broken or played off of soon. 

Hopefully they address this during the bye when they self evaluate and game plan against themselves.  

[92ShaunEllis92]

3 hours ago, Paradis said:

Thoughts on this?

The offense remained idle for long stretches of time (we blew 2 drives to put the game away). The bulk of our big moments came from Wilson just doing his thing.... So, basically the players had to ball out, and Mike's play-calling didn't "open things up" - though i saw a few moments of Zach getting stuck on his first read... (which the broadcast team hung a lantern on the open CD for a TD)

The 2nd down draw plays became painfully telegraphed. The lack of misdirection and often predictability given the down/distance overall was, again, very uninspiring.

Who needs to adjust more, Zach or Mike after that last game. 

I’ve said all day yesterday and today. The victory was a sham for the offense. 
 

The scoring was solely accomplished by Wilson’s ability to improvise after LaFleur’s $hit play-calling and design kept breaking down. 

[jvill 51]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Hopefully they address this during the bye when they self evaluate and game plan against themselves.  

Both should be obvious to them because I’d assume they’re doing it for specific reasons. The second down runs because they want to keep 3rd downs short, and not dropping back when the second string receivers are in because they don’t trust the second string receivers to win. Problem is the run game isn’t good enough to eliminate the risk of you moving backwards on second downs when the defense is keyed on it, putting you in a worse situation than the one you were trying to avoid, and the box is getting stacked whenever Corey Davis (and Elijah Moore in the NE game) leaves the game.

So while maybe self scouting will help with the second down running issue, I think the other issue just comes down to trusting your personnel more.

[Joe W. Namath]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Considering he didn't call any of the plays that actually won the game, no.

He thinks we can run the ball.  Clueless.

SAR I

The clowns have come out of hiding.  

Mike Lafleur is one of the brightest, young offensive minds in the game and we are extremely lucky to have him.  Cant wait to see what he cooks up for the Falcons this Sunday.

[Lith]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Well, ML can't do a whole lo lot when WR's are dropping balls on 3rd down conversion and slipping on the turf when they run their routes.

You would like to give Zach an easy one to get him in a groove...He does seem to over throw that first one - over excitement.  Let's get him an easy one to settle in.

It is not just about one play.  Has been a trend through 4 games.  We have a total of 23 1st quarter passing yards through 4 games.  23 total, not average, but total passing yards.  4 for 15, 23 yards and 2 picks in Q1 through 4 games. 

Week one, it took us 2 1/2 quarters to get going.  Week 2 and 3, we never got going.  Yesterday was one and a half quarters.  We have to get off to better starts if we expectt to play competitive football the rest of the season.

[Uncle Nicco]

I’ve heard multiple analysts say they believe defenses have a tell on our running and passing game