So... Wilson went off-script and won. Did Lafleur earn any credit?

[Augustiniak]

Just now, sec101row23 said:

It looks like teams are looking to take away the easy stuff right now, I’d actually open up with throwing downfield to loosen up the shorter stuff.  Teams are sitting on the those TEs and RBs.  I’d also love to see Carter on a deeper wheel route, I don’t think they have exploited that enough.  

yeah, that's how it is with rookies.  make them prove it deep.  and with wilson's arm and aggressive mentality i expect them to attack the falcons early and often.  and that should open up the easier stuff, and maybe, even the running game.  carter is good and seems primed to break one.

[sec101row23]

5 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

I’m hoping he has one of those games at some point were it all clicks for him. Maybe big catch for winnnf  touchdown. I mean honestly? They put him out another game or so and don’t target him then nobody will expect it when they do. “ Shhhhh, Mims the word” Best kept secret I’m the NFL! 

I was actually thinking that in over time, I told my buddy, this is a perfect spot for Mims on a deep post.  Mims running into the end zone on a walk off TD, legend made.  

[Irish Jet]

LaFelur deserves some credit. Yeah Zach made some plays off script but he also missed some that were dialled up pretty well.

We definitely do need to improve our early production though - It's been embarrassing to this point and really speaks to sub-par preparation. Say what you will about Gase but his early scripted plays were effective, it was adjusting during the game where he was utterly useless. It is frustrating to see Zach get zoned in only for us to start running on every 1st/2nd down. Two drives in a row after Wilson had got into a groove he was getting his first pass on 3rd and long. That has to be improved.

I do think some of the early criticism was a bit harsh for both he and Zach. I think both could have benefited more from some experience to work with but that's not their fault. They had a brutal baptism of fire in those early games against top 10 defences. Hopefully we continue our momentum against a pretty poor Falcons team. 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Irish Jet said:

LaFelur deserves some credit. Yeah Zach made some plays off script but he also missed some that were dialled up pretty well.

We definitely do need to improve our early production though - It's been embarrassing to this point and really speaks to sub-par preparation. Say what you will about Gase but his early scripted plays were effective, it was adjusting during the game where he was utterly useless. 

I do think some of the early criticism was a bit harsh for both he and Zach. I think both could have benefited more from some experience to work with but that's not their fault. They had a brutal baptism of fire in those early games against top 10 defences. Hopefully we continue our momentum against a pretty poor Falcons team. 

they have to start out better on offense, no 3 and out.  the opposite of gase, where his first drive was the only good one.

[Chrebetfan80]

16 hours ago, Paradis said:

Thoughts on this?

The offense remained idle for long stretches of time (we blew 2 drives to put the game away). The bulk of our big moments came from Wilson just doing his thing.... So, basically the players had to ball out, and Mike's play-calling didn't "open things up" - though i saw a few moments of Zach getting stuck on his first read... (which the broadcast team hung a lantern on the open CD for a TD)

The 2nd down draw plays became painfully telegraphed. The lack of misdirection and often predictability given the down/distance overall was, again, very uninspiring.

Who needs to adjust more, Zach or Mike after that last game. 

the pass game route concepts were more creative this week and I do think there were guys open when we needed them to be.  We had another huge gainer on a play but Zach was sacked before he had a chance to get to the read. would have been another TD though. 

Edit:  Ill also point out the two throws Zach missed were on good calls that would have iced the game.  The out to Davis where he has to make that throw, then the missed throw to Griffin in OT where he had both Griffin and Davis wide open for TDS. 

 

My concern is like you said the lack of creativity in the run game.  Outside zone aside, there has to be a more creativity for plays off the OZ. we ran one very nice counter for a big gain, but that was it.. Mcdaniels was the guy in san fran that is credited with the genius of their run game in terms of the variety and play designs. (aside from shanahan and hwat he's gotten from his father), certainly seems like we're missing that here.  

[Scott Dierking]

14 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

LaFelur deserves some credit. Yeah Zach made some plays off script but he also missed some that were dialled up pretty well.

We definitely do need to improve our early production though - It's been embarrassing to this point and really speaks to sub-par preparation. Say what you will about Gase but his early scripted plays were effective, it was adjusting during the game where he was utterly useless. It is frustrating to see Zach get zoned in only for us to start running on every 1st/2nd down. Two drives in a row after Wilson had got into a groove he was getting his first pass on 3rd and long. That has to be improved.

I do think some of the early criticism was a bit harsh for both he and Zach. I think both could have benefited more from some experience to work with but that's not their fault. They had a brutal baptism of fire in those early games against top 10 defences. Hopefully we continue our momentum against a pretty poor Falcons team. 

Purely a guess on my part, but maybe they are looking to ease Zach in early in games. I am obviously around the kid, but maybe he is one of those that gets so jacked up before a game (particularly at this new level), that he is so geeked that they are afraid of negative early plays. 

I don't know. But it may be a thing.

[Irish Jet]

1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said:

Purely a guess on my part, but maybe they are looking to ease Zach in early in games. I am obviously around the kid, but maybe he is one of those that gets so jacked up before a game (particularly at this new level), that he is so geeked that they are afraid of negative early plays. 

I don't know. But it may be a thing.

Yeah I'd say the Pats game definitely spooked them and that's understandable. The team looked very up for that game and Wilson just gave it away.

We definitely have to mix it up though as we're asking way too much of the defence early in these games and it's not sustainable. Against a poor defence like Atlanta we'll have to do better.

[GreenFish]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

It looks like teams are looking to take away the easy stuff right now, I’d actually open up with throwing downfield to loosen up the shorter stuff.  Teams are sitting on the those TEs and RBs.  I’d also love to see Carter on a deeper wheel route, I don’t think they have exploited that enough.  

This is probably it. Somehow our RBs and OL are grading ok in the running game and yet we can’t run the ball from what I’m seeing. I’m blaming it on the playcalling for now.

Yards / Rushing Attempt by Quarter

1st: 2.50

2nd: 3.00 (includes Berrios 9 yard run)

3rd: 0.33

4th: 5.25

OT: 4.25

Once we established that idea that Zach can burn you deep, the running game opened up.

If Atlanta stacks the box, we need flip the scrip and attack down field.

[kevinc855]

LaFleur seems like a mini Gase....ZERO creativity with the run game. That's a problem for this Offense with a young QB. 

Only reason we won is because Wilson threw some dimes rolling out. Otherwise we lose comfortably. 

[Jet Nut]

16 hours ago, Snell41 said:

 

The only reason Zach said “fck this” is because he hasn’t processed the play appropriately. Receivers were open repeatedly.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

Have no idea what game you watched.  
The big pass play to Davis for example was a bootleg where he saw Davis get separation and went off script for the play of the game. 
Seriously, where did that cliche come from?  

[#27TheDominator]

15 hours ago, Paradis said:

thanks, and I'd like the point out to the rest of the peanut gallery @#27TheDominator @Snell41  that this thread was offering up the subject FOR discussion... yet they decided to suit up for conjecture.

Each game has looked a lot different. Bit of whack-a-mole will problems that change on any given week so far.

I think that is the key.  The games have looked different.  They are correcting issues as they go.  I look at that as a sign of good coaching, but we aren't there yet. 

I think it is extremely obvious that Wilson is raw and leaving plays out there.  I find it hard to pin everything on the OC when that is going on.   They faced some tough defenses the first three weeks.  I did not expect them to perform well.  Tennessee and Atlanta are mid-pack/bottom third and I expect things to pick up.  

It will be quite some time before we can truly make our minds up, but IMO the QB and OC go hand in hand.  If Wilson ever shows some life early, I expect the run game to bust out at some point.

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

LaFleur seems like a mini Gase....ZERO creativity with the run game. That's a problem for this Offense with a young QB. 

Only reason we won is because Wilson threw some dimes rolling out. Otherwise we lose comfortably. 

The run game sucks.  You have to show run though, even if it sucks to give you some leeway in the passing game.  It worked even If the running game struggled.  The opposite is Henry’s a beast who never tires and ran for 150 yards.  But Tannehill sucked on a par with our run game and his OL looked like the predictions for our OL.  So there was no chance of a comfortable win by Tenn.

[UntouchableCrew]

17 hours ago, Paradis said:

Thoughts on this?

The offense remained idle for long stretches of time (we blew 2 drives to put the game away). The bulk of our big moments came from Wilson just doing his thing.... So, basically the players had to ball out, and Mike's play-calling didn't "open things up" - though i saw a few moments of Zach getting stuck on his first read... (which the broadcast team hung a lantern on the open CD for a TD)

The 2nd down draw plays became painfully telegraphed. The lack of misdirection and often predictability given the down/distance overall was, again, very uninspiring.

Who needs to adjust more, Zach or Mike after that last game. 

It's clear that right now Wilson is at his best when he's in "playmaking mode," running around and playing backyard football. He has innate ability in that way.

That said...

1) It's not easy to draw up plays for that kind of stuff. It just needs to happen.

2) Wilson clearly has a lot of work to do on some of the basics -- timing and accuracy of schemed stuff.

LaFleur deserves tons of criticism but I don't know if we can blame him too much for not letting Zach do his thing... How many plays can you call for "QB improvises and makes plays?"

[Biggs]

Opening drive against TN.  Michael Carter RT 2 yards, Michael Carter LE 1 yard, Incomplete, punt.

The OC has sent this team out 4 straight games with a script.  The script tells a story.  It's a sad story.

[UntouchableCrew]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

It looks like teams are looking to take away the easy stuff right now, I’d actually open up with throwing downfield to loosen up the shorter stuff.  Teams are sitting on the those TEs and RBs.  I’d also love to see Carter on a deeper wheel route, I don’t think they have exploited that enough.  

 

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

yeah, that's how it is with rookies.  make them prove it deep.  and with wilson's arm and aggressive mentality i expect them to attack the falcons early and often.  and that should open up the easier stuff, and maybe, even the running game.  carter is good and seems primed to break one.

Obviously this is true -- but the line needs to hold up in protection to hit longer stuff.

They did against the Titans anemic pass rush. This was much more of an issue vs. the Panthers and Broncos.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

The only thing I am expecting out of this team is progress. Did LaFleur call a lights out game? No. Did I see improvement from weeks 1-3? Yes. 

A first time OC playing under a first time HC with a rookie QB behind an OL that is slowly finding it's way is not a recipe for instant success. When your center and right guard are getting beaten like a red headed step child, it makes it difficult to get into a flow. LaFleur can only call the play. He cannot make the read for Wilson, and he cannot catch for the receivers. 

It's way too early to make a determination about LaFleur after four games. It's quite foolish, actually.

[JoJoTownsell1]

The off-script stuff won the game but the scripted stuff was also pretty good if you remember that there were some big drops and Wilson missed a wide open C Davis to end the game and missed Griffin for an easy TD in OT. 

It does seem that Wilson, for now, isn't comfortable in the pocket so those throws are a little more tentative even when he has time. I think once we fix the Oline issues (Van Rotten and Mcgovern) and Wilson trusts the pocket this offense will look really good when you blend in both the scripted and off script stuff. 

[The Crusher]

No, the OC only gets blamed for the bad stuff. All the good stuff is Zach’s natural talent and Saleh’s leadership skills. 

[The Crusher]

5 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

The off-script stuff won the game but the scripted stuff was also pretty good if you remember that there were some big drops and Wilson missed a wide open C Davis to end the game and missed Griffin for an easy TD in OT. 

It does seem that Wilson, for now, isn't comfortable in the pocket so those throws are a little more tentative even when he has time. I think once we fix the Oline issues (Van Rotten and Mcgovern) and Wilson trusts the pocket this offense will look really good when you blend in both the scripted and off script stuff. 

All this hero ball Stuff is amazing and will make a huge difference once he learns how to be consistent. Yet, he can’t miss either of those throws going forward. That game should have never gotten close to OT. Live and learn, we hope. 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

4 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

All this hero ball Stuff is amazing and will make a huge difference once he learns how to be consistent. Yet, he can’t miss either of those throws going forward. That game should have never gotten close to OT. Live and learn, we hope. 

I prefer if we 

[Dcat]

18 hours ago, Paradis said:

Thoughts on this?

The offense remained idle for long stretches of time (we blew 2 drives to put the game away). The bulk of our big moments came from Wilson just doing his thing.... So, basically the players had to ball out, and Mike's play-calling didn't "open things up" - though i saw a few moments of Zach getting stuck on his first read... (which the broadcast team hung a lantern on the open CD for a TD)

The 2nd down draw plays became painfully telegraphed. The lack of misdirection and often predictability given the down/distance overall was, again, very uninspiring.

Who needs to adjust more, Zach or Mike after that last game. 

LaFleur is the ghost of Brian Schottenheimer.  Offensive game planning has been unadulterated ass.

[Spoot-Face]

Don't know if this has been posted yet, but this is amazing. The 2nd guy makes it so much better, lol.

 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

25 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

Don't know if this has been posted yet, but this is amazing. The 2nd guy makes it so much better, lol.

 

Something tells me that Clemson Smith Muniz has a similar call when he gets into the endzone, if you know what I mean. 

[Spoot-Face]

5 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Something tells me that Clemson Smith Muniz has a similar call when he gets into the endzone, if you know what I mean. 

Si... si...si!

[Lith]

5 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Or is this a good job of making adjustments by the coaching staff? Or, is this a case of a young qb having nerves and needing to assimilate in a game?

These are tough things to arm chair guess at.

I am not meaning to kill Lafleur, jhe is a young guy learning a new role.  But even if he is doing a good job at making in game adjustments, he needs to find a way to get the offense going earlier.   Similarly, if a young QB has nerves and needs time to assimilate to a game, then I would think it is on the coaching staff to help him get into a rhythym early.

And finally, what is the point of an internet message board if not to armchair guess at things we know nothing about.  I have 15,000+ posts on this site that prove I have been doing it for years.

[docdhc]

18 hours ago, Warfish said:

13 more games before this topic is worth all the sturm und drang.

Personally, I'll evaluate how I feel about Coach L. on the totality of the 2021 season and the improvement shown over the course of the season.

Not just the first 2, 3 or 4 games.

We are literally in no rush.  Absolutely nothing is going to change in re: Coach L. during this season.

So why not wait, and see what the whole picture looks like, not just one small corner?

 

Because that requires being reasonable and patient. That’s not exactly Jet fan strong suits!

[JohnnyLV]

16 hours ago, ryu79 said:

It seemed to finally click for him that he needs to threaten the defense deep to see fewer eight man fronts - and it worked. 

I don't buy the premise of the thread because listening to Wilson explain those plays, they weren't random instinctual moments - he felt comfortable making those throws because of how he knew the secondary would react to the routes his team was putting out - he seemed much better prepared this week end used his abilities to our benefit but to hear him describe it, those moments worked because of the system rather than in spite. 

Two things I don't understand:

- Why don't we have ANY QB draws given Zach has wheels and hasn't done a single one all year? I couldn't understand why we didn't do this in the red zone yesterday. Give the defense something to think about...

- Why is Lafleur on the sideline? He has been vocal about being more comfortable in the booth. I wonder if that's impacting stuff, and he doesn't see the field as well. I'm gonna guess he wants to be closer to Zach and they are missing Knapp on sideline (which was probably the plan) but we need a solve there if it's an issue for him.

He's on the sideline because Zach wants him there. Direct quote from Saleh.  I am not sure I want Zach taking lots of additional hits from running at this point, but doing it once in a while makes sense. I actually liked the naked boot leg that play works there like 85% of the time, and we have been consistently stuffed on short yardage runs