Let’s be realistic

[Claymation]

According  to Sporttrac, the Jets are using less than 67% of their current cap money. 

According to over the cap we have 6 million in available cap.

[Be_a_Jet]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

I get this team is young and full of rookies but that is mostly because our GM won't  sign any FA veteran  talent. It doesn't  have to be like this.  We are sitting on a ton of cap space. 

 

As a fan and if I put my GM hat on, I think its wise not to bring veteran FA's at positions that we have young talent in already i.e. CB, edge, LB. It does nothing but stunt growth and doesn't even give us a player that would stick around anyway. 

 

There are two categories which I think warrant veteran FA:

1) It helps the rookie QB 

2) A position we don't really have developing young talent in. 

 

With these in mind I actually think JD did an okay job. His two blunders are not getting a better TE, and keeping VanRoten. The TE one is forgivable but Van Roten is stupidity. Defensively I think safety is a spot that can use veteran guy but he did that with Joyner and Maye - not his fault they're injured. 

 

 

[Claymation]

Thanks for being the 100th guy to tell Me the plan was to be bad. 
 
Our GM is making it bad because he’s being stubborn thinking he can ride or die with rookies. He bet all his chips on red and black keeps coming out 

Obviously you are unaware of the plan, the plan is getting 1st and 2nd year players experience, losing is a by product of that. The plan isn’t to be bad.

[Green Ghost]

I don’t think anyone is really upset with this team sitting at 1-4 as much as how we’ve gotten there.

If the picks Douglas made in the last two drafts were playing and contributing, most of us would be confident in both the GM and the future of this team.

They’re not doing that though, so I’m hard pressed to see where some of you are getting this idea  that we’ll contend in a year or two.
I see a roster with expansion level talent, a CS that hasn’t impressed, and a GM who hasn’t improved the roster. In truth, you could easily argue he’s made it worse.

[Jet Nut]

59 minutes ago, SAR I said:

He was Adam Gase’s hand-picked yes man

Wrong again 

[nyjets1969]

Actually don't think this team is as bad as advertised think Wilson is not ready to start if Jets had a QB like Mullins starting think they are 3-2 at this point Wilson is holding onto the ball to long and is not accurate on the short simple passes the Falcons have 1 of the worst defense in the NFL even with 27 points the Falcons defense gives up a lot more should have been a win. New England he threw  5 ints but they had 150 yards on the ground they should have beaten them.   Carolina same thing held onto ball to long started out slow its obvious he is struggling with speed and complexity of defensive schemes this isnt Troy state he can't throw 10 - 50 yard bombs a game. Think the QB play is hurting this team 

[jamesr]

9 hours ago, DoubleDecker said:

Look at Jacksonville, even with the "generational" QB their on pace to break a record losing streak.... 20 in a row in crazy to wrap your mind around.  Jets just have to be better, then end.

Jax may catch a break with having Miami up next week.   

[jamesr]

9 hours ago, SAR I said:

The plan was to be bad in 2017, Suck For Sam, remember?

The plan was also to be bad in 2018, Rookie Sam Year, remember?

The plan was also to show growth in 2019, we actually won 7 games, remember?

Then we gave Joe Douglas full control.  And we went backwards in 2020, remember?   

And now we’re in Year 3 of Joe Douglas and we are going backwards again in 2021.  He’s looking at a 3-30 record as GM, it may be the worst GM record in NFL history.

When exactly are we supposed to have expectations of not being bad?   We were making progress until Joe Douglas started tinkering.   Every day we give this guy we get worse.  

SAR I

So what do you think the plan should be?

Fire Joe, bring in a new guy, fire Saleh & co so new guy gets "his coach", then "his coach" needs "his players" and we go round and round again ...

2025 we might be at Year 3 of Rebuild 9 and expecting to see some progress right?

There's a reason we keep spinning our wheels - it's because we want the new guys run out of town if they don't win straight away. If that's what we want, then screw the draft, screw developing players, just load up on a ton of vets for a 1 year run then blow it all up ... wash, rinse, repeat.

[jamesr]

8 hours ago, DoubleDown said:

At what point are we allowed to hold the team accountable?

At what point does Joe Douglas and his hand picked Head Coach and roster need to start producing?

Yes, they are young.  Yes, they are inexperienced.  Those two factors have not stopped others from fielding competitive teams in the past.  They are excuses, and anybody who has rooted for this team for decades is sick of hearing them.

Yes, let's be realistic and concede that this team is hopeless.

Which other team with a rookie HC / coaching staff and rookie QB have fielded truly competitive teams from Day 1? I keep hearing that you can build a competitive NFL team almost overnight but the ones that keep winning are the ones that have continued and sustained organisations - not the ones that chop and change every two years.

[jamesr]

8 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Ok, you have a point. It's  about 8 million but we still could have used that to bring in someone like Minshew or a vet DB or both. 

What good would Minshew have done? He'd be 0-5 / 1-4 and the fan base would be screaming to "Free Zac"!   

[jamesr]

58 minutes ago, nyjets1969 said:

Actually don't think this team is as bad as advertised think Wilson is not ready to start if Jets had a QB like Mullins starting think they are 3-2 at this point Wilson is holding onto the ball to long and is not accurate on the short simple passes the Falcons have 1 of the worst defense in the NFL even with 27 points the Falcons defense gives up a lot more should have been a win. New England he threw  5 ints but they had 150 yards on the ground they should have beaten them.   Carolina same thing held onto ball to long started out slow its obvious he is struggling with speed and complexity of defensive schemes this isnt Troy state he can't throw 10 - 50 yard bombs a game. Think the QB play is hurting this team 

Would having Zac sitting on the bench help with any of his issues about the speed of the game? I don't see how much he'd learn watching Mullens or Minshew getting beaten up instead of him.

[Anthony Jet]

I think the biggest mistake was OC. Besides him seeming to be real bad right now, how about a seasoned vet if a coach to go along with all the rookies(players AND coaches). Our OC is what 32 years old? No coordinator experience ever? Cmon with trying to find the new whiz kid. Give me the grizzly veteran (asst coach’s only) any day of the week 

[Biggs]

10 hours ago, Viermoo said:

 

As much as being a Jet fan has sucked for pretty much ever, to think we would even be near a good team this year is not realistic. We’re the youngest team in the league starting a bunch of rookies. On top of that we have a bunch of “green” coaches. Everyone in the organization is learning this year. If we don’t see improvements by next year then I’d say we have something to worry about. Until then let’s just watch for who’s developing during this season.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

What makes you think having a lot of rookies being coached by rookies is a formula for future success?   If realism is your thing we should be very worried right now.   
 

Waiting until next year to see improvement is not realism.  It’s fanatical devotion based on blind faith.    Today’s game was a wake up call.   
 

Sadly, Q who was drafted by Mac is the best drafted player on the team.  Mosley signed by Mac is the best FA.  Gase was a better OC than Lefleur.   Both Mac and Gase sucked. 

[Jet Nut]

9 hours ago, Claymation said:

Obviously you are unaware of the plan, the plan is getting 1st and 2nd year players experience, losing is a by product of that. The plan isn’t to be bad.

Its not that hard yet SAR, Cowbell, etc just cant wrap their heads around it.  Winning the 4-6 games they predicted had to happen in the first 7 games otherwise they were going to troll the board.  

[Jet Nut]

52 minutes ago, jamesr said:

There's a reason we keep spinning our wheels - it's because we want the new guys run out of town if they don't win straight away. If that's what we want, then screw the draft, screw developing players, just load up on a ton of vets for a 1 year run then blow it all up ... wash, rinse, repeat.

Pitt.  Seattle.  NE.  SF.  Bills.  Chiefs

All contenders, all put their front office and CS in place and left them there.  They were willing to suffer while the program grew.  All have continuity and no FO issues, while being the top of the well run organizations lists.  Built the right way and sustained.  

Jets fans here wanted the same, now dont want to wait.  

[Jet Nut]

9 hours ago, SAR I said:

The plan was to be bad in 2017, Suck For Sam, remember?

The plan was also to be bad in 2018, Rookie Sam Year, remember?

The plan was also to show growth in 2019, we actually won 7 games, remember?

Then we gave Joe Douglas full control.  And we went backwards in 2020, remember?   

And now we’re in Year 3 of Joe Douglas and we are going backwards again in 2021.  He’s looking at a 3-30 record as GM, it may be the worst GM record in NFL history.

When exactly are we supposed to have expectations of not being bad?   We were making progress until Joe Douglas started tinkering.   Every day we give this guy we get worse.  

SAR I

There was no plan to suck for Sam in 2017, no one should remember that

There was no plan to suck in Sams rookie year, no one should remember that

We won 7 games in 2019 by playing teams like Pitt with their 3rd string QB and the Bills resting their entire roster, remember?

We went backwards the following year because Gase sucked ass and because we didnt have teams playing out the string on our schedule

 

[jamesr]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Pitt.  Seattle.  NE.  SF.  Bills.  Chiefs

All contenders, all put their front office and CS in place and left them there.  All have continuity and no FO issues, while being the top of the well run organizations lists.  Built the right way and sustained.  

Jets fans here wanted the same, dont want to wait.  

Of those, I look at the Bills as being the one that we should look at to see how they got to where they are. Pitt, NE etc have been good for a long time, but Bills were bad for a long time and have built themselves up to where they are in recent years. (They also had Rex as an ex-HC like us  ).

They took a QB that many thought was boom or bust and made him boom. We have to do the same with Zac.

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, jamesr said:

What good would Minshew have done? He'd be 0-5 / 1-4 and the fan base would be screaming to "Free Zac"!   

Zac needs a teammate to talk to. It’s  so obvious. Minshew went through what Zac is going through now with the losing. He can tell him how to deal with it. It would help. 

[Smashmouth]

12 hours ago, Viermoo said:

 

As much as being a Jet fan has sucked for pretty much ever, to think we would even be near a good team this year is not realistic. We’re the youngest team in the league starting a bunch of rookies. On top of that we have a bunch of “green” coaches. Everyone in the organization is learning this year. If we don’t see improvements by next year then I’d say we have something to worry about. Until then let’s just watch for who’s developing during this season.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

we should be seeing improvements around game 8 not next year.

Need for the past 20+ years  .... true number 1 WR who can make a tough catch and move the chains. Im sick of trotting number 2's in here that play like number 2

Need for the past 10+ years ... A real Duel threat RB Carter is a swing and a miss.

Need for the past 30+ years ... A capable TE

 

[carlito1171]

I’m someone who expected to win like 3 games this year so I’m unfazed by the losing. I just have a few issues: 

It was egregious to start Zach right out the gate. Should have signed a vet to start the 1st half of the season. 
 

Too many rookie staff on the offensive side of the ball(even with Knapp there RIP ??) The play calling has no rhyme or reason most of the time. 
 

Would like to see more out of our picks like Moore and Carter. 
 

Do a better job of trying to get Mims on the field to do what he’s good at instead of keeping him in the doghouse for reasons only they and God knows.....

[Adoni Beast]

3 hours ago, nyjets1969 said:

Actually don't think this team is as bad as advertised think Wilson is not ready to start if Jets had a QB like Mullins starting think they are 3-2 at this point Wilson is holding onto the ball to long and is not accurate on the short simple passes the Falcons have 1 of the worst defense in the NFL even with 27 points the Falcons defense gives up a lot more should have been a win. New England he threw  5 ints but they had 150 yards on the ground they should have beaten them.   Carolina same thing held onto ball to long started out slow its obvious he is struggling with speed and complexity of defensive schemes this isnt Troy state he can't throw 10 - 50 yard bombs a game. Think the QB play is hurting this team 

Not sure why they felt the need to start Wilson Day 1…but fine….but then why not make more simple game plans or even just reads.

Doesn’t help the team keeps falling behind in every game. The offense and QB just press at that point and we see the results.

Run the ball! Throw more bubbles, screens, quick hitters.

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Not sure why they felt the need to start Wilson Day 1…but fine….but then why not make more simple game plans or even just reads.

Doesn’t help the team keeps falling behind in every game. The offense and QB just press at that point and we see the results.

Run the ball! Throw more bubbles, screens, quick hitters.

You’d think that heading into the atlanta game, the coaches would have revised their opening offensive game strategy to jump start the offense given they’d scored no points in first quarters at all.  Quick passes, let Zach roll out and hit the TEs, start moving the chains, strip down the offense to make it easier.  It’s hard to accept that these coaches are also very much rookies and learning on the fly, b/c all we see is a rookie qb who’s clearly swimming in the a complex offense with not much help.

[nyjets1969]

2 hours ago, jamesr said:

Would having Zac sitting on the bench help with any of his issues about the speed of the game? I don't see how much he'd learn watching Mullens or Minshew getting beaten up instead of him.

Yes because reason he is getting beaten up he holds onto the ball he is having trouble reading coverages he not even making the necessary throws on short passes. His playaction is terrible. Leaving him out there will cause him to start picking up bad mechanics which could lead to even more problems.Think he needs time to sit and watch. Having Mullins who actually did a good job with this offense would give Zach time to learn without getting destroyed and this team actually be competitive 

[JetBlue]

13 hours ago, Viermoo said:

 

As much as being a Jet fan has sucked for pretty much ever, to think we would even be near a good team this year is not realistic. We’re the youngest team in the league starting a bunch of rookies. On top of that we have a bunch of “green” coaches. Everyone in the organization is learning this year. If we don’t see improvements by next year then I’d say we have something to worry about. Until then let’s just watch for who’s developing during this season.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

It is not even about being a good team.  It is about DEVELOPING the talent so that you can become a good team.   It is hard to feel confident in the CS ability to do that, particularly on offense.  For the most part I'm okay with the defenses performance this year considering the all the injuries and the amount of youth on that said of the ball.   I'm sorry but I can find any reason for not putting your best playmakers in the field and designing plays to help your rookie quarterback.   So far I have not seen any of that, and it is very concerning. 

[TJ]

11 hours ago, Beerfish said:

 

The offensive scheme look bad and Wilson should NOT have been starting this year.

Bingo!

 

With a suspect O’line, skill players and three rookie coaches, not letting Wilson sit was the dumbest thing The Jets have done and we all know they’ve done a lot of dumb sh*t.

[DoubleDown]

4 hours ago, jamesr said:

Which other team with a rookie HC / coaching staff and rookie QB have fielded truly competitive teams from Day 1? I keep hearing that you can build a competitive NFL team almost overnight but the ones that keep winning are the ones that have continued and sustained organisations - not the ones that chop and change every two years.

I guess it depends on your definition of "truly competitive," but a recent example that comes to mind is the 2019 Arizona Cardinals with Kyler Murray and Kliff Kingsbury.  They didn't win a ton of games, but Murray had a solid rookie year, and you could certainly see the potential of that team and offense moving forward.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, DoubleDown said:

I guess it depends on your definition of "truly competitive," but a recent example that comes to mind is the 2019 Arizona Cardinals with Kyler Murray and Kliff Kingsbury.  They didn't win a ton of games, but Murray had a solid rookie year, and you could certainly see the potential of that team and offense moving forward.

Klingsbury had a plan for kyler, he knew him well.  He built an offense around kyler’s skills and then brought in skill players to help him.  Saleh is doing the opposite.  They’re forcing an offensive scheme on Zach that does not thus far seem to mesh well with his skills, and they use berrios instead of mims and ignored TE.  

[jamesr]

6 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

I guess it depends on your definition of "truly competitive," but a recent example that comes to mind is the 2019 Arizona Cardinals with Kyler Murray and Kliff Kingsbury.  They didn't win a ton of games, but Murray had a solid rookie year, and you could certainly see the potential of that team and offense moving forward.

It's a decent example ... not sure how much they truly had to rebuild though, they had a run from 2013 to 2017 of being competitive / serious contenders. And you could argue it goes back further than that. Then a slump of a couple of years before Kyler came along. Were they trying to rebuild the whole roster or did they already have a strong core that was lacking a QB?

They did, however, go 5-10-1 in their first year with Kyler (going 1-3-1 over their first five weeks) ... it's not inconceivable that we could get to a similar mark by year end IF we can fix the various issues we're plagued by currently.

[DoubleDown]

1 hour ago, jamesr said:

It's a decent example ... not sure how much they truly had to rebuild though, they had a run from 2013 to 2017 of being competitive / serious contenders. And you could argue it goes back further than that. Then a slump of a couple of years before Kyler came along. Were they trying to rebuild the whole roster or did they already have a strong core that was lacking a QB?

They did, however, go 5-10-1 in their first year with Kyler (going 1-3-1 over their first five weeks) ... it's not inconceivable that we could get to a similar mark by year end IF we can fix the various issues we're plagued by currently.

Fair enough, but the key is we need to see that type of development and improvement.  I don't think many people will be complaining if the Jets can end the season looking competitive on a weekly basis and clearly trending up.

I think the biggest problem is not the losses, but the manner in which they have happened.

[rangerous]

a lot of people seem to think douglas can just snap his fingers and get good vets to come to the team.  the thing is it takes two parties to make a deal and most of the top flight players have more than one team trying to sign them.  look at how cousins used the jets to get more from the vikings.  and consider too that the metro ny area may be off putting to many of these guys.  think about it.  just how many players come from schools in the northeast versus those just about everywhere else.  i'm sure this has something to do some players just staying away.  plus the top players maybe do want to go to a winning program.  think brady goes to tampa if they weren't on the upswing?

[jamesr]

6 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

Fair enough, but the key is we need to see that type of development and improvement.  I don't think many people will be complaining if the Jets can end the season looking competitive on a weekly basis and clearly trending up.

I think the biggest problem is not the losses, but the manner in which they have happened.

I agree with what you say, but comparing to a year ago there are at least some signs. We seem to play some good quarters of football - just not enough, and usually after we've dropped into a deep hole. If we could play a whole game like we play in the second half (or at least most of them) then we might be dangerous. Our one win came when we didn't get behind in the first half (holding Tenn to FGs instead of TDs). 

Last year once we fell into a hole, it was over. It'd be old man Gore up the middle, punt, no threat of making it competitive.

Hey, it may not be much, but it's something.   

[Claymation]

16 hours ago, DoubleDown said:

At what point are we allowed to hold the team accountable?

At what point does Joe Douglas and his hand picked Head Coach and roster need to start producing?

Yes, they are young.  Yes, they are inexperienced.  Those two factors have not stopped others from fielding competitive teams in the past.  They are excuses, and anybody who has rooted for this team for decades is sick of hearing them.

Yes, let's be realistic and concede that this team is hopeless.

What is your definition of Competitive? The Jets had a chance to win 3 of the 5 games they played. They were outplayed by the Broncos  and lost the turnover battle against NE. But if the defense makes a stop against Carolina and Atlanta, the Jets would have the chance to win.

Right now we have a QB who is try to guide the ball on short passes, it is frustrating as hell but it is also a throw we have seen him make in this short season. Like the throw to Crowder for the 2 point conversion and the 3rd down pass where Crowder dropped it in the 1st quarter. Once he develops, learns from his mistakes and gets help from his teammates(missed assignments and dropped balls), this offense should get better.

Zach is gaining experience, and with his experience he will get better. It's called player development, maybe you believe a player out of college is already a finished product like...Josh Allen, no he was a mess his 1st year...Patrick Mahomes, no he didn't play his 1st year...Tua, no he just sucks, bad example, that's on me. 

 

 

 

[Adoni Beast]

5 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

You’d think that heading into the atlanta game, the coaches would have revised their opening offensive game strategy to jump start the offense given they’d scored no points in first quarters at all.  Quick passes, let Zach roll out and hit the TEs, start moving the chains, strip down the offense to make it easier.  It’s hard to accept that these coaches are also very much rookies and learning on the fly, b/c all we see is a rookie qb who’s clearly swimming in the a complex offense with not much help.

Yeah I really don’t get it to be honest. Same story with every Jets HC/OC. They just seem to go away from what makes the most sense…I don’t know what else to say.

My only thought behind all of this (and I forget who but some poster on here who apparently has ties to a member of the Jets beat kind of confirms this theory)…

The NYJ organization did not / does not believe this team was going to win many games this year, especially in the first half of the season.

I think what we are seeing is the offense & defense installs, without paring it back. Now, to me that’s not the best approach because we are throwing away potential wins for the hopes of installing and developing our young roster + QB faster.

They’re not dumbing it down…they want the growing pains to be all done this year…etc.

IF…that’s the case I simply don’t agree with it. I think you run the risk of stunting player development, and causing discontent, and a loser mentality (that this organization already owns a gold star in).

Changing the culture requires wins. Run the ball, game plan simple, quick passes, try and win some games.

[UnknownJetFan]

17 hours ago, SAR I said:

This.

Furthermore, in order for a team full of rookies to develop into a team full of talented veterans, you need a good amount of talented veterans to show them the way.

Joe Douglas has reduced the Jets to an expansion team without the benefit of an expansion draft.  It didn't need to be this way.  We don't have to tolerate his mistake.  We don't need to sugar coat it as 'part of the process'.

SAR I

On O we have vets with WRs Davis/Cole/Crowder, RT Moses, etc. On D they have Rankins/Mosley/Lawson. There are some vets to provide insight to the younger 1st and 2nd year players. We just have to have more patience. In the very words of Lando Calrissian "Han will have those shields down, we gotta give him more time".

[SAR I]

8 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said:

In the very words of Lando Calrissian "Han will have those shields down, we gotta give him more time".

SAR I