JD's and Salah's plan to replace Greg Knapp?

[Action Zachtion]

First off, RIP.  His passing was a loss that goes beyond football and I feel horrible for his family.  Not discussing this earlier makes sense.  

But I think it's time to talk about the football loss.  

Knapp was key to the plan to coach up a rookie QB. 

If you watch the every throw tape on YouTube of Zach's senior year (I did lol) he'd miss one or two short throws a game and would have several with picture perfect placement. 

There are lots more bad short throws now.  This begs the question of development to me.  

I see lots of potential, lots of crap from WRs down field,  lots of questionable play calls, but missing the short throws is on Zach and it's something he can controll. 

This team probably needs to be a pass first team to succeed as currently built. 

I'm curious about the coaching and development plan in a post Knapp world. (Again, one last time - RIP) 

[JTJet]

3 minutes ago, Action Zachtion said:

I'm curious about the coaching and development plan in a post Knapp world. (Again, one last time - RIP) 

There isnt a plan.

End thread. 

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

[ScarletKnight89]

Zach is missing on so many easy throws. It's a problem. A correctable one. He didn't display accuracy issues in college so I don't think it's something he can't correct but he's got to tighten up those throws. It's the biggest thing I want to see him improve on right now. 

Check down passes into the flat that may only get you 2-5 yards still move your offense forward and turn 3rd and longs into 3rd and shorts.

[Joejet]

They replaced Knapp with Matt Cavanaugh.

[Uncle Nicco]

2 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Zach is missing on so many easy throws. It's a problem. A correctable one. He didn't display accuracy issues in college so I don't think it's something he can't correct but he's got to tighten up those throws. It's the biggest thing I want to see him improve on right now. 

Check down passes into the flat that may only get you 2-5 yards still move your offense forward and turn 3rd and longs into 3rd and shorts.

He missed one throw to crowder low which impacted the game. We have a lot bigger issues on offense than this. It’s magnified because we are frustrated with the overall output of the offense but it’s not the issue. Your offense should be able to survive 1-2 bad throws a game, much more deeply rooted problems in this offensive scheme and personnel 

[SAR I]

Have all your years of Jets fandom taught you nothing?

It's not coaching.  Every year, half the first round quarterbacks bust and once again we drew the short straw.  Zach Wilson is this year's Josh Rosen.

We'll argue this for another 2 years until he's traded for a 6th rounder.  That's always entertaining.

SAR I

[Action Zachtion]

5 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Have all your years of Jets fandom taught you nothing?

It's not coaching.  Every year, half the first round quarterbacks bust and once again we drew the short straw.  Zach Wilson is this year's Josh Rosen.

We'll argue this for another 2 years until he's traded for a 6th rounder.  That's always entertaining.

SAR I

Your bitterness blinds you lol.  Even this week he put some encouraging stuff on tape. 

Just cause the last 35 busted doesn't mean this one will.  

[naturalscience]

13 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Zach is missing on so many easy throws. It's a problem. A correctable one. He didn't display accuracy issues in college so I don't think it's something he can't correct but he's got to tighten up those throws. It's the biggest thing I want to see him improve on right now. 

Check down passes into the flat that may only get you 2-5 yards still move your offense forward and turn 3rd and longs into 3rd and shorts.

Missing on the dump offs and too many throws behind the receivers. 

Some have been catchable and dropped but just as many haven't been.

The pick he threw today was a potential completion if he threw it to the sideline.

Hopefully it's just a case of bright lights, big city and he gets that rhythm soon. The young man definitely has some talent.

[Hael]

There is so much more than just accuracy going wrong with ZW right now.

1) He has no ability to read defenses, which leads to problem...

2) He gets happy feet in the pocket.  Which leads to the rollout to the right play (which is predictable for the D)

Now, this is pretty typical so far of young qbs.

The problem is he also

3) Doesn't go through progressions calmly, based on reads (which he may or may not be evaluating correctly). 

4) Locks onto a receiver and his eyes never lies to the defense.

5) Throws off an unstable platform at least 50% of the time, even when he doesn't have too.

Now I don't put much stock in being able to throw jump balls.  When you throw it 60 yards downfield, hitting receivers in stride is much more about the receiver than the qb.  You can literally throw it 10 yards to either side and a good receiver can adjust and make it look like hes full speed.  What matters more is the read beforehand and what the coverage is doing.  Last week for instance, on one of the deep throws there was a guy *wide* open thirty yards down the field, which he should have thrown too instead of putting it up.

All this to say, that I like the pretty ball that ZW throws (and it is much more elegant than cannon alla Trevor Lawrence or Pat Mahomes), and I actually think he could correct a few mechanical things that would make him throw it even faster.  But talent aside, so far the actual ability to play qb is basically ground zero.  Lets hope he is a fast learner, b/c I don't think the Jets are an organization that can lose for 5 years in a row while ZW learns to play his position.

So yea, bring in a miracle worker ASAP, b/c I don't think there is as much time as people think.

[SAR I]

10 minutes ago, Action Zachtion said:

Your bitterness blinds you lol.  Even this week he put some encouraging stuff on tape. 

Just cause the last 35 busted doesn't mean this one will.  

Jets fans have an eye for this sort of thing.  We have a lot of experience.  It’s not too soon to call it.  

In fact, I can’t think of another rookie Jets quarterback that telegraphed a bust so easily and so quickly.  Zach Wilson can’t complete a pass the length of your dining room table.  

SAR I

[Action Zachtion]

42 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Jets fans have an eye for this sort of thing.  We have a lot of experience.  It’s not too soon to call it.  

In fact, I can’t think of another rookie Jets quarterback that telegraphed a bust so easily and so quickly.  Zach Wilson can’t complete a pass the length of your dining room table.  

SAR I

It's agree to disagree then. 

You seem negative about everything Jets right now and I get it.  I can see it through that lense and history says that's the safe bet.  

I think it's way too early and there are far too many positive signs to ignore to accept that negative view as a finished story.  

Life is full of kicks in the nuts for everyone.  All of us know what it's like to dig in a get through a tough time and weakness.  I still think the organization will be able to do that this reboot.

[Action Zachtion]

1 hour ago, Hael said:

There is so much more than just accuracy going wrong with ZW right now.

1) He has no ability to read defenses, which leads to problem...

2) He gets happy feet in the pocket.  Which leads to the rollout to the right play (which is predictable for the D)

Now, this is pretty typical so far of young qbs.

The problem is he also

3) Doesn't go through progressions calmly, based on reads (which he may or may not be evaluating correctly). 

4) Locks onto a receiver and his eyes never lies to the defense.

5) Throws off an unstable platform at least 50% of the time, even when he doesn't have too.

Now I don't put much stock in being able to throw jump balls.  When you throw it 60 yards downfield, hitting receivers in stride is much more about the receiver than the qb.  You can literally throw it 10 yards to either side and a good receiver can adjust and make it look like hes full speed.  What matters more is the read beforehand and what the coverage is doing.  Last week for instance, on one of the deep throws there was a guy *wide* open thirty yards down the field, which he should have thrown too instead of putting it up.

All this to say, that I like the pretty ball that ZW throws (and it is much more elegant than cannon alla Trevor Lawrence or Pat Mahomes), and I actually think he could correct a few mechanical things that would make him throw it even faster.  But talent aside, so far the actual ability to play qb is basically ground zero.  Lets hope he is a fast learner, b/c I don't think the Jets are an organization that can lose for 5 years in a row while ZW learns to play his position.

So yea, bring in a miracle worker ASAP, b/c I don't think there is as much time as people think.

I didn't get past point 1 cause I don't think that's true. I think he is reading things well for a rookie.  When they show the all 22 clips he makes lots of good reads.  

[Barry McCockinner]

1 hour ago, JTJet said:

There isnt a plan.

End thread. 

Derptard on the internet thinks professional coaches who have dedicated their lives to NFL football do not even have a plan.

Disagree with the approach all you want but hot takes like this are just straight retarded. 

You are dumb. Stop posting on football message boards.

 

 

[Uncle Nicco]

56 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Jets fans have an eye for this sort of thing.  We have a lot of experience.  It’s not too soon to call it.  

In fact, I can’t think of another rookie Jets quarterback that telegraphed a bust so easily and so quickly.  Zach Wilson can’t complete a pass the length of your dining room table.  

SAR I

He completed 19 passes today 

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, Pichula said:

He missed one throw to crowder low which impacted the game. We have a lot bigger issues on offense than this. It’s magnified because we are frustrated with the overall output of the offense but it’s not the issue. Your offense should be able to survive 1-2 bad throws a game, much more deeply rooted problems in this offensive scheme and personnel 

He missed about 4 of them before halftime. 

[Uncle Nicco]

Just now, More Cowbell said:

He missed about 4 of them before halftime. 

No he didn’t, he has the pick which was like a 40 yard throw that was just late. 

[jeremy2020]

I posted this in another thread and I'm sorry to re-post it, but it's relevant:

Gregg Knapp was not a panacea to the problems their experiencing. 

The legend of Gregg Knapp is greatly exaggerated. I feel bad that he died, but that doesn't suddenly change that he wasn't very good and had poor results for most of his career. He was most well known for his stints as offensive coordinator where his claim to (in)fame was switching to zone blocking schemes and the offensive lines being much worse. 

Sound familiar? 

The QBs he worked with:

1998: Steve Young

1999 - 2000: Jeff Garcia

2004 - 2006: Michael Vick

2007: Josh McNown

2008: JaMarcus Russel

2009 - Matt Hassleback

2010 - 2011: Matt Schaub

2012: Carson Palmer

2013 - 2016: Peyton Manning*

2017-2020: Matt Ryan

He only worked with one of those QBs as a rookie (Jeff Garcia). Only one of those QBs had a career year (Jeff Garcia)** while Knapp was on the team.

Otherwise, he came into teams with experienced, established starters. I'm not saying he didn't have great value to those guys, but he did not have a history of working with rookies. His stints as OC were disastrous. So while losing Knapp was certainly a blow, it is not a very good excuse. 

 

* ADAM GASE ALERT

** Jamarcus Russel technically had a career year with Knapp, but that's only because it was his 2nd year and he played 15 games compared to 12 and 4). His career year was also really terrible. 

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, Action Zachtion said:

Your bitterness blinds you lol.  Even this week he put some encouraging stuff on tape. 

Just cause the last 35 busted doesn't mean this one will.  

Zack was horrible today. 

[hawk]

1 hour ago, Pichula said:

He missed one throw to crowder low which impacted the game. We have a lot bigger issues on offense than this. It’s magnified because we are frustrated with the overall output of the offense but it’s not the issue. Your offense should be able to survive 1-2 bad throws a game, much more deeply rooted problems in this offensive scheme and personnel 

I can only think of one NFL caliber throw today.   The pass to Mims.  His accuracy is the single biggest issue right now.  Jmo

[Uncle Nicco]

1 minute ago, More Cowbell said:

Zack was horrible today. 

 Still plenty to build on 

[Uncle Nicco]

Just now, hawk said:

I can only think of one NFL caliber throw today.   The pass to Mims.  His accuracy is the single biggest issue right now.  Jmo

There were many nfl caliber throws …

 

[maury77]

1 hour ago, Hael said:

There is so much more than just accuracy going wrong with ZW right now.

1) He has no ability to read defenses, which leads to problem...

2) He gets happy feet in the pocket.  Which leads to the rollout to the right play (which is predictable for the D)

Now, this is pretty typical so far of young qbs.

The problem is he also

3) Doesn't go through progressions calmly, based on reads (which he may or may not be evaluating correctly). 

4) Locks onto a receiver and his eyes never lies to the defense.

5) Throws off an unstable platform at least 50% of the time, even when he doesn't have too.

Now I don't put much stock in being able to throw jump balls.  When you throw it 60 yards downfield, hitting receivers in stride is much more about the receiver than the qb.  You can literally throw it 10 yards to either side and a good receiver can adjust and make it look like hes full speed.  What matters more is the read beforehand and what the coverage is doing.  Last week for instance, on one of the deep throws there was a guy *wide* open thirty yards down the field, which he should have thrown too instead of putting it up.

All this to say, that I like the pretty ball that ZW throws (and it is much more elegant than cannon alla Trevor Lawrence or Pat Mahomes), and I actually think he could correct a few mechanical things that would make him throw it even faster.  But talent aside, so far the actual ability to play qb is basically ground zero.  Lets hope he is a fast learner, b/c I don't think the Jets are an organization that can lose for 5 years in a row while ZW learns to play his position.

So yea, bring in a miracle worker ASAP, b/c I don't think there is as much time as people think.

Preach brother.

[SAR I]

13 minutes ago, Pichula said:

He completed 19 passes today 

He had a whopping 65 yards before garbage time.  Against the NFL's worst pass defense.  On a neutral field.  With all of his weapons finally on the field together.

SAR I

[More Cowbell]

13 minutes ago, Action Zachtion said:

I didn't get past point 1 cause I don't think that's true. I think he is reading things well for a rookie.  When they show the all 22 clips he makes lots of good reads.  

Zacks big problem is he doesn't  keep his eyes down field when he scrambles. The pass he threw to Moore that was out of bounds could have been a long gain if he got the ball out a second earlier. Every QB has to move in the pocket or out of it to escape pressure, the great ones keep their eyes down field while they do it. 

[Uncle Nicco]

Just now, SAR I said:

He had a whopping 65 yards before garbage time.  Against the NFL's worst pass defense.  On a neutral field.  With all of his weapons finally on the field together.

SAR I

There was no garbage time in this game. 

[Uncle Nicco]

Just now, More Cowbell said:

Zacks big problem is he doesn't  keep his eyes down field when he scrambles. The pass he threw to Moore that was out of bounds could have been a long gain if he got the ball out a second earlier. Every QB has to move in the pocket or out of it to escape pressure, the great ones keep their eyes down field while they do it. 

That’s literally probably the least of his problems 

[Uncle Nicco]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

He had a whopping 65 yards before garbage time.  Against the NFL's worst pass defense.  On a neutral field.  With all of his weapons finally on the field together.

SAR I

I thought he couldn’t complete a pass, which one is it? 

[SAR I]

4 minutes ago, Pichula said:

There was no garbage time in this game. 

SAR I

[SAR I]

3 minutes ago, Pichula said:

I thought he couldn’t complete a pass, which one is it? 

He doesn't look like an NFL quarterback.

He looks like a bust.

I've seen enough to know, trust me.

SAR I

[Uncle Nicco]

Just now, SAR I said:

He doesn't look like an NFL quarterback.

He looks like a bust.

I've seen enough to know, trust me.

SAR I

So have I and I disagree. I know you’re trolling so I’m not going to get too worked up about it.

[ScarletKnight89]

1 hour ago, Pichula said:

He missed one throw to crowder low which impacted the game. We have a lot bigger issues on offense than this. It’s magnified because we are frustrated with the overall output of the offense but it’s not the issue. Your offense should be able to survive 1-2 bad throws a game, much more deeply rooted problems in this offensive scheme and personnel 

He missed on more than one throw. We might have bigger issues on offense, but the most important player on this team is Wilson, along with his development. 

He missed easy throws this week, and last week. It's something that needs to get better.

[More Cowbell]

16 minutes ago, Pichula said:

No he didn’t, he has the pick which was like a 40 yard throw that was just late. 

Look, I'm not going to argue this. Anyone can see he has a real issue with short passes

[Uncle Nicco]

Just now, ScarletKnight89 said:

He missed on more than one throw. We might have bigger issues on offense, but the most important player on this team is Wilson, along with his development. 

He missed easy throws this week, and last week. It's something that needs to get better.

He missed one “easy” throw that had an impact on the game is what I mean. Quarterbacks complete 60-70% of their passes, not 100%.

[More Cowbell]

13 minutes ago, Pichula said:

 Still plenty to build on 

After about 3 minutes i couldn't  watch  anymore. He threw two hospital shots that I didn't notice during the game.