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The reason the Jets are so bad, and it comes down to one word, stubbornness.


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19 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I dislike that they don’t even make adjustments to fit their own players. Is Zack Wilson not allowed to run the ball? Does Mims have to play exactly like Deebo Samuel? Why is Elijah Moore playing on the outside? Why are they still trying to make Wesco into a fullback even though he can’t do it? Why were they trying to use Becton in a zone blocking scheme? Why are they using Mosely as an off-the-ball OLB? Why did they draft two strong safeties, convert them into OLBs, and then not use them to cover TEs? 

This coaching staff has neutered last year’s draft class.  They were actually running ok last year behind bechton and when mims got healthy he produced.  The coaching staff wants to make bechton play like brick, is making an example for some reason out of mims and Perine may never play another down for the jets again.  Throw in 2 failed 3rd rounders from last year’s draft and you have a completely empty draft class except for hall.  What a waste.

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I feel like the bigger problem is that both Saleh and Douglas are treating this like a redshirt year for themselves because they’re starting a rookie and they act like every game is just extended pres

That is exactly how I feel, and it is all because the leadership of this team is stubborn as a mule.  The reasons: 1. Stubbornness not to bring in a veteran QB before the season, and allow Zach t

You forgot a few: Thinks that he can outsmart the league by bringing in cheap players with histories of injury. Things he can outsmart the league by drafting a meatball on toothpicks LT.

It comes down to one word... WOODY

A ship sails in the mold of the master.  A few good crew members can not make up for a bad captain.  They can set the rigging and keep the deck in Bristol fashion, but a bad captain will still run the ship onto the rocks and down to the bottom. 

As long as the Jets have the same owner, the ship will be stuck on the rocks. 

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17 hours ago, Alka said:

That is exactly how I feel, and it is all because the leadership of this team is stubborn as a mule.  The reasons:

1. Stubbornness not to bring in a veteran QB before the season, and allow Zach to initially watch and bring him along slowly to begin the season.

2. Stubbornness by JD not to address what all Jets fans knew before the season, and that is that we desperately needed a right guard, but JD said to let our mediocre O linemen fight it out to see who would start.

3. Stubbornness by Saleh to not see beyond the nose on his face not to put Denzel Mims on the outside and allow him to make plays.  Then Stubbornness by the coaches to not see clearly that Moore is not a wideout, and should be playing from the slot.

4. Stobbornnrss by Saleh not to hold Lefleur accountable and come up with a simplified gameplan so that Zach is not in over his head.

I feel that JD and Saleh will eventually get this right, but what is holding the team back so far is JD and Saleh.  The mistakes for this season has already been made, and unfortunately they can't undo the miserable decisions they have made up until now.  

1, 3 and 4 agree 100%. 2 was where we would have got Thuney but the chiefs paid him so much it not only would have been a lot to exceed, but why would he come to our team over the Chiefs?. Initial backup plan was Alex Smith and Cam Clark on the team to probably have one of them beat out GVR, but Smith finally went off the deep end, and Cam had an almost life threatening injury. So, we ended up stuck with GVR or Feeney and neither are good. If this team had a decent record going into Halloween maybe it would be worth trading for a RG and perhaps even a TE, but since JD likely doesn't feel that Jets are those 2 positions away from contending for the playoffs he probably will not do either. In fact we may be sellers at that point with Maye likely being on the trade block, likely for a draft pick or maybe for a player like a RG or TE, but he dropped his value with his stupid shenanigans.  

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17 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

been hearing this since week 1

Holding you all to the magical second half of the season we are headed for.

I do find it funny many of these posters are the same people who dismissed 2019 second half 6-2 as "garbage wins"

What I find funny is quoting my post and including it with something from two years ago. I'm not anticipating a "magical second half". We're a young team finding its' way. That takes time. But if it makes you feel better, hold me writing we will own a top 5 pick.

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On 10/10/2021 at 10:07 PM, Alka said:

That is exactly how I feel, and it is all because the leadership of this team is stubborn as a mule.  The reasons:

1. Stubbornness not to bring in a veteran QB before the season, and allow Zach to initially watch and bring him along slowly to begin the season.

2. Stubbornness by JD not to address what all Jets fans knew before the season, and that is that we desperately needed a right guard, but JD said to let our mediocre O linemen fight it out to see who would start.

3. Stubbornness by Saleh to not see beyond the nose on his face not to put Denzel Mims on the outside and allow him to make plays.  Then Stubbornness by the coaches to not see clearly that Moore is not a wideout, and should be playing from the slot.

4. Stobbornnrss by Saleh not to hold Lefleur accountable and come up with a simplified gameplan so that Zach is not in over his head.

I feel that JD and Saleh will eventually get this right, but what is holding the team back so far is JD and Saleh.  The mistakes for this season has already been made, and unfortunately they can't undo the miserable decisions they have made up until now.  

it's not stubborness.  it's called inexperience.  the coaching staff is new and they are trying to put their system in place.  they're not so concerned about adapting to the players as much as having players to adapt to them.  at some point things will even out and there will be some good give and take.

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14 minutes ago, rangerous said:

it's not stubborness.  it's called inexperience.  the coaching staff is new and they are trying to put their system in place.  they're not so concerned about adapting to the players as much as having players to adapt to them.  at some point things will even out and there will be some good give and take.

I think this is right.

Wins and Losses are not the driving factor behind this season...

They are bringing up a QB and, as you stated, trying to implement a new offense and defense.  I suspect once that's integrated and the team understands it - that's when they can start adapting it. 

Honestly, I really don't mind the approach - if they come out stronger for it next year.  

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On 10/11/2021 at 10:56 AM, FidelioJet said:

This is correct and they've been pretty upfront about it.

The reality is, that's what this is.  

Problem, of course, is the players know this too and there's no real urgency from them to win and/or get better.

Players don't operate this way. They're all playing for their careers.

They just aren't good right now.

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******* same old Jets.   Stubbornly trying to do what they wanted and what they have been saying they would do for five whole weeks!  How dare they! 

God you ******* people are impatient.  No wonder 2015 happened.  It's what you deserve.

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Just now, UntouchableCrew said:

Players don't operate this way. They're all playing for their careers.

They just aren't good right now.

Well..I don't think I agree but let me make sure I understand what you're suggesting.

By the standard your setting here - Coaches can't effect the motivation of the players?  Players don't play harder for some coaches than other? Players don't check out and the end of losing seasons?

I've been told for a very long time and what I suspect to be true is that motivation from coaches plays a large role...and some coaches are better at it than others.

I can certainly be wrong and maybe you're right, maybe coaches are only good for X's and O's and nothing else matters.  I tend to disagree but I'm not in those locker rooms. 

 

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On 10/11/2021 at 11:29 AM, THE BARON said:

It comes down to one word... WOODY

A ship sails in the mold of the master.  A few good crew members can not make up for a bad captain.  They can set the rigging and keep the deck in Bristol fashion, but a bad captain will still run the ship onto the rocks and down to the bottom. 

As long as the Jets have the same owner, the ship will be stuck on the rocks. 

Woody is the real GM.  Has been for 10 years

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On 10/11/2021 at 11:29 AM, THE BARON said:

It comes down to one word... WOODY

No, that excuse is gone. Blow it up you all said after Woody gave this team lots of money signing FA in the last 4 years. So he did

The Johnsons fired Gase

They then hired JD, which you all applauded. 

JD then hired Saleh, which you all applauded. 

JD has Saleh report to him, which you all applauded. 

The Johnsons have no role in this mess. 

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Just now, kevinc855 said:

No, that excuse is gone. Blow it up you all said after Woody gave this team lots of money signing FA in the last 4 years. So he did

The Johnsons fired Gase

They then hired JD, which you all applauded. 

JD then hired Saleh, which you all applauded. 

JD has Saleh report to him, which you all applauded. 

The Johnsons have no role in this mess. 

You do see a common thread eh?

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13 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Well..I don't think I agree but let me make sure I understand what you're suggesting.

By the standard your setting here - Coaches can't effect the motivation of the players?  Players don't play harder for some coaches than other? Players don't check out and the end of losing seasons?

I've been told for a very long time and what I suspect to be true is that motivation from coaches plays a large role...and some coaches are better at it than others.

I can certainly be wrong and maybe you're right, maybe coaches are only good for X's and O's and nothing else matters.  I tend to disagree but I'm not in those locker rooms. 

 

Coaches can change the way players play, but you don't think these guys are playing hard?  I am certainly not seeing that.  

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10 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Coaches can change the way players play, but you don't think these guys are playing hard?  I am certainly not seeing that.  

I never said they weren't playing hard....

But if winning isn't an expectation and it's okay to lose --- there will be a lack of urgency in finding a way to win. 

For instance, as bad as they played this past Sunday...If they stop Atlanta on that last drive (3rd and 12 for instance) in my opinion there's a good chance they win that game.  I was confident the Jets would have driven the field and scored.

Urgency matters, expectations matter - if you don't think you have to win, you won't find a way to win. 

That's just my opinion - you're certainly welcome to your opinion that motivation from coaches is irrelevant.  I guess I think it matters...No real sense in arguing an unprovable data point though.

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19 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

No, that excuse is gone. Blow it up you all said after Woody gave this team lots of money signing FA in the last 4 years. So he did

The Johnsons fired Gase

They then hired JD, which you all applauded. 

JD then hired Saleh, which you all applauded. 

JD has Saleh report to him, which you all applauded. 

The Johnsons have no role in this mess. 

The applause was general optimism as we all saw that a change needed to be made.   None of us got to take part in the interview process and none of us got to make choices on who to hire and none of us are performing the GM, HC or OC jobs.  Johnson made the GM hire on the advise of Gase who Johnson all so hired.  It is all on the owner.  Both who was hired and how they are performing.

I'll say that I think Saleh can grow into the job even though he is learning on the fly.  

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44 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Well..I don't think I agree but let me make sure I understand what you're suggesting.

By the standard your setting here - Coaches can't effect the motivation of the players?  Players don't play harder for some coaches than other? Players don't check out and the end of losing seasons?

I've been told for a very long time and what I suspect to be true is that motivation from coaches plays a large role...and some coaches are better at it than others.

I can certainly be wrong and maybe you're right, maybe coaches are only good for X's and O's and nothing else matters.  I tend to disagree but I'm not in those locker rooms. 

 

Overall I think the motivation for players varies, but in a general sense (especially on a young team where few guys have big guaranteed money) most of these guys are playing for their careers and trying to put the best tape out there they can.

With the exception of the uber talented or guys with tons of guaranteed money none of these guys can afford to not play hard and put bad performances on film. They'll be out of a job if they keep doing it.

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22 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I never said they weren't playing hard....

But if winning isn't an expectation and it's okay to lose --- there will be a lack of urgency in finding a way to win. 

For instance, as bad as they played this past Sunday...If they stop Atlanta on that last drive (3rd and 12 for instance) in my opinion there's a good chance they win that game.  I was confident the Jets would have driven the field and scored.

Urgency matters, expectations matter - if you don't think you have to win, you won't find a way to win. 

That's just my opinion - you're certainly welcome to your opinion that motivation from coaches is irrelevant.  I guess I think it matters...No real sense in arguing an unprovable data point though.

You think great coaches make players delusional?  

Wilson makes some throws and everybody suddenly starts playing better.  Yes, the 3rd and longs were horrible.  Did you notice that they are playing a bunch of safeties that werent with the team September 1?   I will say the same thing I ahve been saying.  It's been 5 weeks.  I will be saying it a bit more.  After week 3, all I heard was that everything would be fine if they could only score.  Well they scored week 4 and week 5, but we lost a winnable game and everybody is wetting themselves all over again.  I don't get it. 

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2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You think great coaches make players delusional?  

Wilson makes some throws and everybody suddenly starts playing better.  Yes, the 3rd and longs were horrible.  Did you notice that they are playing a bunch of safeties that werent with the team September 1?   I will say the same thing I ahve been saying.  It's been 5 weeks.  I will be saying it a bit more.  After week 3, all I heard was that everything would be fine if they could only score.  Well they scored week 4 and week 5, but we lost a winnable game and everybody is wetting themselves all over again.  I don't get it. 

I actually like Saleh, I think he's doing a very good job.  I really do. I also have no problem with LaFleur either.

I don't love that Saleh's  been so public about his expectations is all (but he was being honest, which I guess is good).  I think it does matter when it comes to winning and losing games.  I believe if the team knows it's not important to win it will hurt their ability to win.  That's all really.

And to be honest, I don't care all that much about wins or losses this year either -   Would it be nice, sure...but not a big deal.

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On 10/11/2021 at 11:29 AM, THE BARON said:

It comes down to one word... WOODY

A ship sails in the mold of the master.  A few good crew members can not make up for a bad captain.  They can set the rigging and keep the deck in Bristol fashion, but a bad captain will still run the ship onto the rocks and down to the bottom. 

As long as the Jets have the same owner, the ship will be stuck on the rocks. 

Woody is no longer the issue.

 

This is where you are now wrong in your assessment.

you were right about the past,sorry to tell you this but for the first time ever, the Johnsons are watching from the sidelines.

They are not participating in any of the football decision-making that’s going on.

 

We just got to trust that JD, coach Saleh, and Zach get it done.

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2 hours ago, rangerous said:

it's not stubborness.  it's called inexperience.  the coaching staff is new and they are trying to put their system in place.  they're not so concerned about adapting to the players as much as having players to adapt to them.  at some point things will even out and there will be some good give and take.

Where not talking about Vince Lombard, Hank Stram or Bill Walsh.  Their installing Shanahan's system because that's all they know.  In 1998 the NY Jets had one of the great coaching staffs in NFL history.  They were not inventing the light bulb or installing Hank Stram's system.  They were coaching the players they had and bringing in guys that were both available and they could work with.   They didn't have a system.  They had a philosophy on how to coach players and put them in position to be successful.  They blocked and tackled.  They brought in a hard running back in Martin and a mobil center who could pull and ran the ball off tackle.  When they had a big TE they sealed the edge and ran outside.  They weren't fooling people they were matching up with them and beating them.

 

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33 minutes ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

Woody is no longer the issue.

 

This is where you are now wrong in your assessment.

you were right about the past,sorry to tell you this but for the first time ever, the Johnsons are watching from the sidelines.

They are not participating in any of the football decision-making that’s going on.

 

We just got to trust that JD, coach Saleh, and Zach get it done.

Oh ? Who hired JD who in turn hired Saleh and drafted ZW ?

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42 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Oh ? Who hired JD who in turn hired Saleh and drafted ZW ?

I don’t think you’re giving them a fair shot at making this work.  At the very least the Johnsons are no longer sticking their fingers in the pie ,so to speak. Let the football guys, JD & Co. do what they Gotta do
In a few years, you may be right. I just hope you’re wrong.

 

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1 hour ago, Biggs said:

Where not talking about Vince Lombard, Hank Stram or Bill Walsh.  Their installing Shanahan's system because that's all they know.  In 1998 the NY Jets had one of the great coaching staffs in NFL history.  They were not inventing the light bulb or installing Hank Stram's system.  They were coaching the players they had and bringing in guys that were both available and they could work with.   They didn't have a system.  They had a philosophy on how to coach players and put them in position to be successful.  They blocked and tackled.  They brought in a hard running back in Martin and a mobil center who could pull and ran the ball off tackle.  When they had a big TE they sealed the edge and ran outside.  They weren't fooling people they were matching up with them and beating them.

 

Strongly disagree.  You are dealing with guys that burned bridges with O'Donnell and Hugh Douglas because they couldn't make it work with anything other than their own system.  They overpaid for Curtis just becuase they couldn't depend on a fine back in Murrell.  They brought in a bunch of lackeys from the Patriots like Otis Smith, Logan, etc.  They were as system as it gets and it almost worked.  

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On 10/11/2021 at 3:06 AM, LockeJET said:

1. First and foremost, a rookie defensive minded head coach should never ever bring in a rookie offensive coordinator. Especially to bring along a rookie QB. 
 

2. Our first 10-15  plays of every game on offense kill this team. Do we script plays at all? 
 

3. Zach is a rookie I get it but he’s missing most of his throws. Ball is always behind guys, very rarely puts the ball where they can run after the catch, can’t hit guys out of their breaks and doesn’t  see wide open guys. 
 

4. Talent wins! This is an expansion team type roster. We have a few guys emerging but this team doesn’t have anybody who scares opposing coordinators on either side of the ball. We need playmakers and game breakers desperately!

5. I’m not giving up on Saleh or JD but it all starts up top. We always bring in never been HC’s, never been Coordinaters and never been GMs. Hence the reason why we Never do sh*t!!

For a second there I thought you were talking about SAM, sigh.

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16 hours ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

I don’t think you’re giving them a fair shot at making this work.  At the very least the Johnsons are no longer sticking their fingers in the pie ,so to speak. Let the football guys, JD & Co. do what they Gotta do
In a few years, you may be right. I just hope you’re wrong.

 

I suppose if they are not forcing the hand of the GM to do stuff like draft Geno Smith or bring in Tim Tebow, or hire a new GM (Idzik) that has a plan to sabotage his HC (Rex) it is some progress... 

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On 10/10/2021 at 10:50 PM, T0mShane said:

It really is bizarre that they invest a lot into bringing young QBs in and then do nothing to protect that investment. They’re going to let another meathead DC/HC guide the development of the QB by hiring one of the DC’s frat buds. 

Thus far JD has at least drafted Becton (who has been lauded as a very good pick here) and AVT ( who is showing positive signs). Next year, I’m sure he drafts another blue chip OL in round 1. Hopefully, he gets this OL ramped up and improved with a top FA OL. It needs a veteran experienced star like Schreff. He’s getting there. And you have to think they’ll re-evaluate the offense next year. Just have to.

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