Michael Carter

[Smashmouth]

6 minutes ago, Jets Things said:

Well yeah I know its not up there with all the Sam Darnold threads and Jamal Adams threads . I was just thinking we would actually talk about Jets players and why, up to this point they happen to suck.

[Gastineau Lives]

12 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

According to Pro Football Focus, Carter has forced 11 missed tackles across his 29 touches this season. That’s an average of 0.379 per carry, ranking second-best in the league among 50 qualified running backs (min. 20 carries) behind only fellow rookie Najee Harris (0.383).

Hey, look, the thread just died.

[Jets Things]

2 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Well yeah I know its not up there with all the Sam Darnold threads and Jamal Adams threads . I was just thinking we would actually talk about Jets players and why, up to this point they happen to suck.

You picked the wrong player to take an attempted sh!t on. If you're looking to unload your guts, go with Corey "Stonehands" Davis or Greg "van Roten" van Roten. 

[Gastineau Lives]

Just now, Jets Things said:

You picked the wrong player to take an attempted sh!t on. If you're looking to unload your guts, go with Corey "Stonehands" Davis or Greg "van Roten" van Roten. 

The crazy thing is that Davis has dropped twice as many passes as his career average since putting on a Jet uniform.

[Matt39]

8 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

According to Pro Football Focus, Carter has forced 11 missed tackles across his 29 touches this season. That’s an average of 0.379 per carry, ranking second-best in the league among 50 qualified running backs (min. 20 carries) behind only fellow rookie Najee Harris (0.383).

Missed tackles and breaking tackles is not the same thing. 

[BroadwayRay]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

Can't make people miss or break a tackle

The overwhelming majority of his yards have come after contact, so I would say that to a laughable degree, you don't know wtf you're talking about.

[Uncle Nicco]

He has great balance and lateral movement. Definitely an NFL player, better than Edwards Helaire. Is missing that second gear and burst to be an elite RB

[HawkeyeJet]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Missed tackles and breaking tackles is not the same thing. 

FORCING MISSED TACKLES

There is a lot more to carrying the ball than just forcing missed tackles, but it is undoubtedly an important factor and can really separate the level of play among running backs. Missed tackles will come in different forms, Whether it is a juke move that avoids contact all together, breaking an arm tackle, or a ‘truck stick’ that bowls over a defender, all are considered missed tackles. The one type of player that can occasionally be at a disadvantage are pure speed backs because there just is not a number to track for beating a defender to space with speed to gain additional yardage in terms of Elusive Rating.

[Matt39]

7 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

FORCING MISSED TACKLES

There is a lot more to carrying the ball than just forcing missed tackles, but it is undoubtedly an important factor and can really separate the level of play among running backs. Missed tackles will come in different forms, Whether it is a juke move that avoids contact all together, breaking an arm tackle, or a ‘truck stick’ that bowls over a defender, all are considered missed tackles. The one type of player that can occasionally be at a disadvantage are pure speed backs because there just is not a number to track for beating a defender to space with speed to gain additional yardage in terms of Elusive Rating.

I would say this definition and what we’ve seen from him to date do not align. Especially yesterday. 

[Smashmouth]

3 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

The overwhelming majority of his yards have come after contact, so I would say that to a laughable degree, you don't know wtf you're talking about.

And I will have to say if you are defending MC you my friend don't know WTF you're talking about at all. Also try not to use the words overwhelming when talking about a back averaging 3.5 yards per carry . As a matter of fact, the only reason he has more yards after contact is because his numbers are so dreadfully low. If he gains 3 or 4 yards after getting arm tackled tripping and stumbling forward its not really impressive is it ? Most good RB's blast through arm tackles Michael Carter stumbles the rest of the way and his open field running is nothing short of terrible

[Asymmetrical]

I'm not a ""running back doesn't matter" person but it's the least important/most replaceable position on offense. Carter is good/fine imo and the least of our worries. 

[BroadwayRay]

6 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

And I will have to say if you are defending MC you my friend don't know WTF you're talking about at all. Also try not to use the words overwhelming when talking about a back averaging 3.5 yards per carry . As a matter of fact, the only reason he has more yards after contact is because his numbers are so dreadfully low. If he gains 3 or 4 yards after getting arm tackled tripping and stumbling forward its not really impressive is it ? Most good RB's blast through arm tackles Michael Carter stumbles the rest of the way and his open field running is nothing short of terrible

95 out of 127 yards coming after contact going into the Falcons game is the very definition of "overwhelming majority." Again, I repeat, you don't know wtf you're talking about. This thread now only serves the purpose of underlining that point.

[Smashmouth]

19 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

The crazy thing is that Davis has dropped twice as many passes as his career average since putting on a Jet uniform.

I've had my fair share of Comments about Corey "McCarrons" Davis. He's not the number 1 guy we needed. He's exactly what he's always been a middle of the road Number 2 WR who simply can not make a tough catch. He catches with his body way too much to be any better than what we currently see. Everything that hits his hands that can't be cradled into his body ...well you've seen what that leads too.

[Fantasy Island]

Which Michael Carter?

[Smashmouth]

20 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

95 out of 127 yards coming after contact going into the Falcons game is the very definition of "overwhelming." Again, I repeat, you don't know wtf you're talking about. This thread now only serves the purpose of underlining that point.

I try to make my points with out telling people "they don't know WTF they are talking about" but in your case ya left me no choice. Every RB in the history of the game gains yards after contact EVERY SINGLE ONE on nearly every single play. Its a stupid stat to even bring up in the case of Michael Carter or when comparing backs and is more appropriate used in talking about WR's not RB's who routinely get hit fairly quickly once touching the ball. You are the one making a case on a stat that is ridiculous to use on a RB with so little yards.

 

Example 

See below most of Derrick Henrys Yards are Yards after contact . The reason he leads the NFL in that category is because he has the most yards. When you have 3567 rushing yards and 3130 are after contact it shows the stat is mostly irrelevant when discussing RB's and I would bet anything that every single back would be around this same percentage unless they are just running into a wall on every play. Its a stupid stat to judge a RB on and it further demonstrates your lack of knowledge on the subject. if you line up the top 10 RB's in the NFL or the Middle ten the percentages of Yards after Contact would be extremely close its the nature of the position. 

Now compare Derrick Henry's YAC to Michael Carters and tell be because MC's stats are close to Henrys he must be just as good.

Summary . Don't use dumb stats to make a point.

Here's how we know: Over the last two seasons, Henry doesn't just lead the NFL in rushing yards with 3,567 in the regular season and 4,052 if you include the postseason, but he also has more yards after contact — 3,130 — than any other NFL back has in total rushing

[derp]

The team’s running backs average 3.5, 3.7, and 3.5 yards per carry, so perhaps the situation is a factor. Not sure why the rookie fourth round pick is specifically the one who needs to be called out. Team does need to continue to upgrade in the backfield.

[Smashmouth]

5 minutes ago, derp said:

The team’s running backs average 3.5, 3.7, and 3.5 yards per carry, so perhaps the situation is a factor. Not sure why the rookie fourth round pick is specifically the one who needs to be called out. Team does need to continue to upgrade in the backfield.

Reason I called out MC is because Tevin Coleman and Ty Johnson are Jags and we know they are Jags. Really good RB's coming out of College usually have a pretty fast Impact if they are going to be good to great football players. I would hope a guy like MC would have Emerged but he did not and FWIW he had a hard time moving up the depth chart in Training camp vs said Jags and for good reason he's not much better than what we have or had.  

What's even more sad is there is a reason Ty and Tevin are what they are. They are RB by committee players who really can't excel in that capacity I was expecting MC to come in and easily take the lead role even if we still ran by committee but then I actually saw him play

[Smashmouth]

45 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

95 out of 127 yards coming after contact going into the Falcons game is the very definition of "overwhelming majority." Again, I repeat, you don't know wtf you're talking about. This thread now only serves the purpose of underlining that point.

Let me tear this bullsh*t apart further 

Micheal Carter has 165 yards rushing of which 104 yards were BEFORE CONTACT so why exactly did you make this crap up ?

So MC has 165 yards rushing with 61 of them coming after contact giving him one of the lower percentages of the top 50 RB's in the NFL of which he ranks number 48

 

					Games		Rushing
Rk	Player	Tm	Age	Pos	G	GS	Att	Yds ▼	1D	YBC	YBC/Att	YAC	YAC/Att	BrkTkl	Att/Br
1	Derrick Henry	TEN	27	rb	5	5	142	640	34	413	2.9	227	1.6	4	35.5
2	Nick Chubb	CLE	26	rb	5	5	90	523	24	345	3.8	178	2.0	5	18.0
3	Ezekiel Elliott	DAL	26	rb	5	5	85	452	25	290	3.4	162	1.9	2	42.5
4	James Robinson	JAX	23	rb	5	5	67	387	21	274	4.1	113	1.7	3	22.3
5	Joe Mixon	CIN	25	rb	5	5	93	386	17	235	2.5	151	1.6	11	8.5
6	Alvin Kamara	NOR	26	rb	5	5	94	368	14	238	2.5	130	1.4	8	11.8
7	Austin Ekeler	LAC	26	rb	5	5	67	349	19	218	3.3	131	2.0	5	13.4
8	Tony Pollard	DAL	24		5	0	51	325	18	209	4.1	116	2.3	3	17.0
9	Antonio Gibson	WAS	23	rb	5	4	79	313	21	192	2.4	121	1.5	5	15.8
10	David Montgomery	CHI	24	rb	4	4	69	309	18	133	1.9	176	2.6	7	9.9
11	Aaron Jones	GNB	27	rb	5	5	70	309	15	219	3.1	90	1.3	4	17.5
12	Najee Harris	PIT	23	rb	5	5	78	307	16	208	2.7	99	1.3	6	13.0
13	Clyde Edwards-Helaire	KAN	22	rb	5	5	65	304	10	203	3.1	101	1.6	3	21.7
14	Kareem Hunt	CLE	26		5	0	55	295	17	166	3.0	129	2.3	6	9.2
15	Darrell Henderson	LAR	24	rb	4	4	60	294	17	186	3.1	108	1.8	3	20.0
16	Devin Singletary	BUF	24	rb	5	4	55	284	10	189	3.4	95	1.7	2	27.5
17	Melvin Gordon	DEN	28	rb	5	5	60	282	12	192	3.2	90	1.5	7	8.6
18	Lamar Jackson	BAL	24	qb	4	4	42	279	15	182	4.3	97	2.3	6	7.0
19	Jonathan Taylor	IND	22	rb	4	4	58	274	20	156	2.7	118	2.0	7	8.3
20	Chase Edmonds	ARI	25	rb	5	5	49	270	14	201	4.1	69	1.4	2	24.5
21	Alexander Mattison	MIN	23	rb	5	2	65	258	11	192	3.0	66	1.0	3	21.7
22	Jalen Hurts	PHI	23	qb	5	5	43	256	18	209	4.9	47	1.1	5	8.6
23	Leonard Fournette	TAM	26	rb	5	4	56	251	11	173	3.1	78	1.4	5	11.2
24	Javonte Williams	DEN	21		5	0	54	247	13	138	2.6	109	2.0	9	6.0
25	Jamaal Williams	DET	26	rb	5	5	55	244	17	196	3.6	48	0.9	4	13.8
26	Chris Carson	SEA	27	rb	4	4	54	232	11	104	1.9	128	2.4	8	6.8
27	Damien Harris	NWE	24	rb	5	5	63	230	13	132	2.1	98	1.6	4	15.8
28	Dalvin Cook	MIN	26	rb	3	3	51	226	15	127	2.5	99	1.9	1	51.0
29	Chuba Hubbard	CAR	22	rb	5	2	56	220	10	161	2.9	59	1.1	3	18.7
30	Miles Sanders	PHI	24	rb	5	5	48	214	9	174	3.6	40	0.8	10	4.8
31	Mark Ingram	HOU	32	rb	5	5	68	212	9	91	1.3	121	1.8	4	17.0
32	Mike Davis	ATL	28	rb	5	4	62	204	10	120	1.9	84	1.4	3	20.7
33	Christian McCaffrey	CAR	25	rb	3	3	52	201	7	89	1.7	112	2.2	9	5.8
34	James Conner	ARI	26		5	0	63	201	17	107	1.7	94	1.5	5	12.6
35	Daniel Jones	NYG	24	qb	5	5	30	197	11	181	6.0	16	0.5	1	30.0
36	Saquon Barkley	NYG	24	rb	5	5	54	195	9	96	1.8	99	1.8	3	18.0
37	D'Andre Swift	DET	22		5	0	52	190	12	170	3.3	20	0.4	1	52.0
38	Elijah Mitchell	SFO	23	rb	3	2	45	189	10	145	3.2	44	1.0	2	22.5
39	Josh Allen	BUF	25	qb	5	5	35	188	17	150	4.3	38	1.1	2	17.5
40	Zack Moss	BUF	24		4	0	46	184	13	99	2.2	85	1.8	6	7.7
41	Cordarrelle Patterson	ATL	30	rb	5	2	41	173	8	121	3.0	52	1.3	2	20.5
42	Myles Gaskin	MIA	24	rb	5	3	34	167	6	116	3.4	51	1.5	1	34.0
43	AJ Dillon	GNB	23		5	0	38	166	8	103	2.7	63	1.7	3	12.7
44	Michael Carter	NYJ	22	rb	5	3	47	165	10	104	2.2	61	1.3	3	15.7
45	Ty'Son Williams	BAL	25

[fullblast]

I'd be worried if our other RBs were tearing it up but none of them can find lanes running behind this line.

[Smashmouth]

10 minutes ago, fullblast said:

I'd be worried if our other RBs were tearing it up but none of them can find lanes running behind this line.

I think the OL has progressively gotten better each week and I have seen all our RB 's miss holes or not do much when hitting the second level at all. 

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

yep your post stinks. Im giving valid reasons why this team needs a real RB what reasons have you given in defense of Carter not doing much of anything ?

Gee, I don't know.  He's played 5 professional games of football on a bad offense?

Sorry he can't be be HOF already.  But shouldn't expect nothing less from SOJ attitude.

[CanadaSteve]

33 minutes ago, derp said:

The team’s running backs average 3.5, 3.7, and 3.5 yards per carry, so perhaps the situation is a factor. Not sure why the rookie fourth round pick is specifically the one who needs to be called out. Team does need to continue to upgrade in the backfield.

SOJ fan attitude.  There is your answer.

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, Asymmetrical said:

I'm not a ""running back doesn't matter" person but it's the least important/most replaceable position on offense. Carter is good/fine imo and the least of our worries. 

This holds water right up until you draft a Henry, Kamara, McCaffery, Hunt, Chubb, Jones, the list goes on 

[Matt39]

38 minutes ago, derp said:

The team’s running backs average 3.5, 3.7, and 3.5 yards per carry, so perhaps the situation is a factor. Not sure why the rookie fourth round pick is specifically the one who needs to be called out. Team does need to continue to upgrade in the backfield.

Certainly a factor. Was just expecting a bit more burst. Hopefully it clicks. We’ve gotten zero explosive plays from the running game at all so far.

[bealeb319]

I feel like he would be great in a role of rb2. Let a primary guy tire out the defense then let him power through the tired fatties kind of like shonn green used to do for us.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

[Smashmouth]

2 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Gee, I don't know.  He's played 5 professional games of football on a bad offense?

Sorry he can't be be HOF already.  But shouldn't expect nothing less from SOJ attitude.

Its not a SOJ attitude RB's usually do good right out of the gate. Its the most instinctive position on the field and its a position the player can create something from nothing with talent alone. A great RB opens up the entire offense.

Wonder why Darnold got off to such a good start in Carolina > McCaffery is why. Now no Mc Caffery and Darnold throws 3 ints 177 yards and has looked just like he looked here the past few weeks. Most of us saw this coming I posted it many times because it was an easy prediction.

Same with Tannehill and Henry. Its wonderful to have that type of player to take pressure off a young QB ...would have been great for Zach 

[DoubleDown]

I wouldn't go as far as saying he stinks, but he looks very ordinary thus far.  Nothing special.

I think he can be a solid NFL running back with good blocking in front of him.  But he's not a guy that is going to create on his own, and he doesn't appear to have the breakaway speed to be a true gamechanger.

[shuler82]

It's like maybe there's a reason he was available in the 4th round?  

He's been fine. A few glimpses of the elusiveness that he showed in college, but feels like he should be more of a rotational guy than a bell cow. That said, I'm at a loss on why we aren't dialing up more quick passes to him and Elijah Moore and getting them out in space on a more consistent basis. 

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

It's like maybe there's a reason he was available in the 4th round?  

He's been fine. A few glimpses of the elusiveness that he showed in college, but feels like he should be more of a rotational guy than a bell cow. That said, I'm at a loss on why we aren't dialing up more quick passes to him and Elijah Moore and getting them out in space on a more consistent basis. 

They drafted these 2 smallish quick guys who presumably can create YAC in space.  I expected that to be a focal point of game plans.  Moving Zach around, having quick passes to the rbs, moore and crowder with cole, mims and davis stretching the field.  

[derp]

26 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Certainly a factor. Was just expecting a bit more burst. Hopefully it clicks. We’ve gotten zero explosive plays from the running game at all so far.

Carter’s more shifty than explosive. Not a big play back.

[derp]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

Reason I called out MC is because Tevin Coleman and Ty Johnson are Jags and we know they are Jags. Really good RB's coming out of College usually have a pretty fast Impact if they are going to be good to great football players. I would hope a guy like MC would have Emerged but he did not and FWIW he had a hard time moving up the depth chart in Training camp vs said Jags and for good reason he's not much better than what we have or had.  

What's even more sad is there is a reason Ty and Tevin are what they are. They are RB by committee players who really can't excel in that capacity I was expecting MC to come in and easily take the lead role even if we still ran by committee but then I actually saw him play

I mean, he was a fourth round pick. That’s not where you find guys who are going to transcend bad situations. The guys who come in early and make big impacts tend to be drafted high and into good situations. Neither is the case for Carter.

[undertow]

Carter is a solid back but he's not explosive offensive line upgrades or another year isn't going to turn him into Dalvin Cook, Alvin Kamara, or Austin Eckler.  We have to keep on drafting WRs and RBs till we hit on difference makers.

[Sperm Edwards]

5 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

he's 9 for 64 receiving with a whopping 7.1 yard average

So that 7.1 yard average is a good half-yard per reception better than Curtis Martin's time with the Jets.  

[greenwichjetfan]

He might stink as a lead back, but that's because he's not a lead back. He's supposed to be used in the passing game and as a change of pace for the lead back. I'd bet that he'd be much better if he were used appropriately.

[Smashmouth]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So that 7.1 yard average is a good half-yard per reception better than Curtis Martin's time with the Jets.  

we can revisit this in a few years ?