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6 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

They drafted these 2 smallish quick guys who presumably can create YAC in space.  I expected that to be a focal point of game plans.  Moving Zach around, having quick passes to the rbs, moore and crowder with cole, mims and davis stretching the field.  

but that's the problem he does not run very good in space he's starts dancing and gives the defenders the upper hand or a chance to close in on the tackle. In open space I would love to see him just burst and he does not IMHO he leaves a ton of yards on the table 

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According to Pro Football Focus, Carter has forced 11 missed tackles across his 29 touches this season. That’s an average of 0.379 per carry, ranking second-best in the league among 50 qualified runni

SAR I

What holes? This OL for run blocking sux. They got better at pass blocking so they are no longer at the bottom. yippeee

8 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

I try to make my points with out telling people "they don't know WTF they are talking about" but in your case ya left me no choice. Every RB in the history of the game gains yards after contact EVERY SINGLE ONE on nearly every single play. Its a stupid stat to even bring up in the case of Michael Carter or when comparing backs and is more appropriate used in talking about WR's not RB's who routinely get hit fairly quickly once touching the ball. You are the one making a case on a stat that is ridiculous to use on a RB with so little yards.

 

Example 

See below most of Derrick Henrys Yards are Yards after contact . The reason he leads the NFL in that category is because he has the most yards. When you have 3567 rushing yards and 3130 are after contact it shows the stat is mostly irrelevant when discussing RB's and I would bet anything that every single back would be around this same percentage unless they are just running into a wall on every play. Its a stupid stat to judge a RB on and it further demonstrates your lack of knowledge on the subject. if you line up the top 10 RB's in the NFL or the Middle ten the percentages of Yards after Contact would be extremely close its the nature of the position. 

Now compare Derrick Henry's YAC to Michael Carters and tell be because MC's stats are close to Henrys he must be just as good.

Summary . Don't use dumb stats to make a point.

Here's how we know: Over the last two seasons, Henry doesn't just lead the NFL in rushing yards with 3,567 in the regular season and 4,052 if you include the postseason, but he also has more yards after contact — 3,130 — than any other NFL back has in total rushing

The reason Henry leads the league in yac is because he’s a great back. And as for Carter, he was one of the NCAA leaders in that stat. Since this whole topic came up because of your claim that Carter can’t break tackles, I’d say it’s hardly a “dumb stat.” On the contrary, it proves your original statement is completely wrong. 

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9 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

The reason Henry leads the league in yac is because he’s a great back. And as for Carter, he was one of the NCAA leaders in that stat. Since this whole topic came up because of your claim that Carter can’t break tackles, I’d say it’s hardly a “dumb stat.” On the contrary, it proves your original statement is completely wrong. 

Read the stats I posted for you and stop trying to make a point that does not exist. 65 to 80 percent of ALL RB YARDS come after first contact its an irrelevant stat when evaluating a RB. But if you must even Carters YAC yards are ranked 48 the in the NFL the numbers you posted were pulled out of thin air and absolute bullsh*t. You had Carter at 95 YAC of 125 yards. when his real numbers are 61 YAC of 167 yards. if you're going to make an argument at the very least you need to get the stat you are pointing too correct.

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I have to say I made a mistake starting the thread saying MC stinks I should have just posted the facts of why I felt this way as to not offend the Green Glasses crowd. As I have said before lets see where this kid is in about 2 years. Based on the way he runs Im going to go out on a limb and say he will be gone and if he's not we did a piss poor job finding a real RB

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He needs to get those knees up in the hole. Seems like he does get arm tackled in traffic. Which is ironic because he smashes through on a couple of touchdowns. Give him time to adjust. I would like to see some Josh Adams though.

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25 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Read the stats I posted for you and stop trying to make a point that does not exist. 65 to 80 percent of ALL RB YARDS come after first contact its an irrelevant stat when evaluating a RB. But if you must even Carters YAC yards are ranked 48 the in the NFL the numbers you posted were pulled out of thin air and absolute bullsh*t. You had Carter at 95 YAC of 125 yards. when his real numbers are 61 YAC of 167 yards. if you're going to make an argument at the very least you need to get the stat you are pointing too correct.

The stats were correct, taken directly from PFF. I don’t know where you got your numbers from, but mine are assuredly better. 

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He looks painfully pedestrian so far, but this o line isnt doing anyone any favors either.

If people want to excuse his performance behind the o line, that's fine I guess, but I am not going to listen to people tell me a guy averaging 3.5 YPC looks good. These are the same people that said Perine looked good too.

Its only 5 games so we will see where we stand at the end of the season but so far he just isnt making any plays that pop and make you take notice of him. He looks like every JAG you can find off the scrap heap so far.

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3 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

The stats were correct, taken directly from PFF. I don’t know where you got your numbers from, but mine are assuredly better. 

Oh I must not have realized exactly who I debating with of course everything you post is assuredly better so much better you didn't even bother to post it. Below are the stats I posted earlier in the thread to which you informed me "I don't know where you got your numbers from" which tells me you didn't even bother to read the stats. You frankly suck at this and if you are going to open your mouth and insult people at the very least come prepared so as not to look like a complete fool.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/rushing_advanced.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/rushing_advanced.htm

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2 minutes ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

He looks painfully pedestrian so far, but this o line isnt doing anyone any favors either.

If people want to excuse his performance behind the o line, that's fine I guess, but I am not going to listen to people tell me a guy averaging 3.5 YPC looks good. These are the same people that said Perine looked good too.

Its only 5 games so we will see where we stand at the end of the season but so far he just isnt making any plays that pop and make you take notice of him. He looks like every JAG you can find off the scrap heap so far.

Exactly

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21 minutes ago, rldev said:

He needs to get those knees up in the hole. Seems like he does get arm tackled in traffic. Which is ironic because he smashes through on a couple of touchdowns. Give him time to adjust. I would like to see some Josh Adams though.

I think Josh Adams was released I was hoping to see him as well because he easily looked the best in preseason and ran very hard IMHO

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18 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Oh I must not have realized exactly who I debating with of course everything you post is assuredly better so much better you didn't even bother to post it. Below are the stats I posted earlier in the thread to which you informed me "I don't know where you got your numbers from" which tells me you didn't even bother to read the stats. You frankly suck at this and if you are going to open your mouth and insult people at the very least come prepared so as not to look like a complete fool.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/rushing_advanced.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/rushing_advanced.htm

“Your stats” show Carter ranking 37th in the NFL in yac per attempt. But he “can’t break tackles” — yeah, right, OK. 

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9 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

This holds water right up until you draft a Henry, Kamara, McCaffery, Hunt, Chubb, Jones, the list goes on 

 

Well, it's 5 games in on a bad offense and he's a 4th round pick. I think he's shown enough potential to justify the pick spent on him and the thing about running back is you can always find another one. I do think we'd agree that he'd be best paired with a bigger thumper type. 

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4 hours ago, BroadwayRay said:

“Your stats” show Carter ranking 37th in the NFL in yac per attempt. But he “can’t break tackles” — yeah, right, OK. 

what ? Lets celebrate MC being ranked 37th at something !! 👏

So what you are making such a big deal about is a guy ranked outside of the top 32 RB's in the NFL ? With my terrible website no less ??  That's not even in the same realm as the amazing sites you frequent ? Just so ya know they are not "my stats" they are stats posted by pro football reference.

Just to put this to bed whether you are looking at advanced stats or regular stats Michael Carter is ranked in the high 30's to mid forties in every single stat so thanks for helping me make my argument.

Does this mean that MC will always suck ? NOPE But I'm guessing when Perine comes back he will get every chance to be the number 1 back because Carter certainly did not solidify that job by any means.

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1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

.

  I'm guessing when Perine comes back he will get every chance to be the number 1

 

where did he go? i dont believe he is injured anymore. hes been a healthy scratch since week 2.

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38 minutes ago, doitny said:

where did he go? i dont believe he is injured anymore. hes been a healthy scratch since week 2.

had no idea .... thought he was hurt . weird all the healthy scratches when the players currently in the game are not perfroming

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22 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

 

 

 

I'd be interested to know how quickly is he seeing 1st contact?  1 yard, 2 yards?  Dude seems like he's got a defender in his face the second he gets to the LOS, which would add up with the stat provided.  Seems to be always making something out of nothing or dragging a defender or reach for the extra yard.  

I think Carter behind an OL that can run block, will be very good.  And for someone who loves a receiving back @Smashmouth he's the 2nd leading receiver on the team.

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On 10/11/2021 at 8:55 AM, JazzyJet said:

To be honest, I don't believe he was a scheme fit. This type of running offense requires a one cut runner, someone like Chubba Hubbard, who has been quite productive in Carolina. Michael Carter's tape was so fun to watch because he runs like Leon Washington/ Reggie Bush scat back style. But I didn't think it was a scheme fit, and still don't. He could improve if the o-line improves. But I would have to agree with this take at this point.

Thinking that Hubbard has been quite productive while Carter is some kind of bust is another demonstration of flawed Jet fan logic.  Hubbard has 309 @ 3.7 per with 1 TD.  Carter 202 @ 3.5 with 2 TDs.  Carter has 17 for 131 on 23 targets.  Hubbard 17 for 110 on 24.  They were both taken in the 4th, but Hubbard went at the bottom of the round and Carter at the top.

I kind of agree with your post in that I feel that Carter is kind of a luxury player, like Moore.  I think when you have enough of them it can work, but we need a horse we can ride and we don't have one.  Still, there is no reason to think that Carter won't be a viable player in league.  

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5 hours ago, JiFapono said:

I'd be interested to know how quickly is he seeing 1st contact?  1 yard, 2 yards?  Dude seems like he's got a defender in his face the second he gets to the LOS, which would add up with the stat provided.  Seems to be always making something out of nothing or dragging a defender or reach for the extra yard.  

I think Carter behind an OL that can run block, will be very good.  And for someone who loves a receiving back @Smashmouth he's the 2nd leading receiver on the team.

yeah he's receiving the football especially this last game but most offenses can throw the ball to their RB's as much as they like if they choose to check down more often than not. I see a lot of flaws in MC's abilities when it comes to running the football even after the catch.

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4 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Thinking that Hubbard has been quite productive while Carter is some kind of bust is another demonstration of flawed Jet fan logic.  Hubbard has 309 @ 3.7 per with 1 TD.  Carter 202 @ 3.5 with 2 TDs.  Carter has 17 for 131 on 23 targets.  Hubbard 17 for 110 on 24.  They were both taken in the 4th, but Hubbard went at the bottom of the round and Carter at the top.

I kind of agree with your post in that I feel that Carter is kind of a luxury player, like Moore.  I think when you have enough of them it can work, but we need a horse we can ride and we don't have one.  Still, there is no reason to think that Carter won't be a viable player in league.  

maybe he can be a middling 3rd down back 

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On 10/11/2021 at 8:53 AM, Smashmouth said:

Rookie RB's more so than any other rookie position player play with more instinct and are usually way ahead of other position players when it comes to immediate impact. From what I have seen he's a terrible runner and that's why he's averaging 3.5 per carry. If the Pats did not totally avoid playing the run against us Carter might be averaging well under 3 YPC. He gets tripped up more than Frank Gore

Chubba Hubbard, Kenny Gainwell and several other rookie running backs are looking good as advertised.   I have also been very disappointed with Carter.  Hopefully he picks it up during the second half especially once Becton is back. 

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11 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Chubba Hubbard, Kenny Gainwell and several other rookie running backs are looking good as advertised.   I have also been very disappointed with Carter.  Hopefully he picks it up during the second half especially once Becton is back. 

Carters problem is when he hits the hole he starts looking for people to avoid rather than continuing to advance the football we need a runner not a dancer. You hit the hole and you turn on the jets put the dancing shoes away

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8 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Carters problem is when he hits the hole he starts looking for people to avoid rather than continuing to advance the football we need a runner not a dancer. You hit the hole and you turn on the jets put the dancing shoes away

What games are you watching? Cause the Oline not creating these holes your talking bout. He usually dancing cause he has to avoid defenders right away.

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8 hours ago, JetBlue said:

Chubba Hubbard, Kenny Gainwell and several other rookie running backs are looking good as advertised.   I have also been very disappointed with Carter.  Hopefully he picks it up during the second half especially once Becton is back. 

Last week Hubbard had 12 carries for 28 yards and Gainwell had 5 carries for 20 yards and 7 of that came on one run. But i guess there better cause there not jets .

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