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Would you still draft Zach if we could have a do-over?


Would you draft Zach Wilson at overall #2 if you could do-over today?  

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  1. 1. After watching Zach for 5 weeks would you take him at #2?

    • Still draft Zach at overall #2
    • I wouldn't draft Zach again, either select somebody else or trade the pick


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In order to understand the people who voted yes, the bottom line is not drafting Zach, but key decisions that came later. I would not have drafted Elijah More, because everyone knew the biggest thing that you can do to protect Wilson was draft olinemen.  I would have drafted C Creed Humphrey, and would not have drafted Hamsah Nasirildeen, instead would have gone G Trey Smith. So the draft would have ended like this:
Round 1 · Pick 2 (2) Zach Wilson QB Brigham Young
Round 1 · Pick 14 (14) Alijah Vera-Tucker G USC  
Round 2 · Pick 2 (34) Creed Humphrey C Oklahoma
Round 4 · Pick 2 (107) Michael Carter RB North Carolina
Round 5 · Pick 2 (146) Jamien Sherwood SAF Auburn
Round 5 · Pick 10 (154) Michael Carter II CB Duke
Round 5 · Pick 31 (175) Jason Pinnock CB Pittsburgh  
Round 6 · Pick 2 (186) Trey Smith G Tennessee
Round 6 · Pick 16 (200) Brandin Echols CB Kentucky 
Round 6 · Pick 23 (207) Jonathan Marshall DT Arkansas  

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You think the Bills would still draft Josh Allen if they could have a do over? How bout we let this kid grow into himself instead of pulling the plug after 5 games 

I'd draft Zach again and not commit malpractice by replacing Van Roten and McGovern.  I also wouldn't make a 33 year old kid OC and not give him a veteran backup to settle him down.

Can we rewind your time machine back further and take Josh Allen over Sam Darnold?

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Peyton's weapons were pretty terrible over the course of the decades outside of the 3 you named.  Just look at how the careers of the likes of Dallas Clark and Brandon Stokely went when paired with a QB not named Peyton.  Austin Collie and Jacob Tamme even looked pretty good with Peyton.  

Matt Stafford now looks good but he also looked good in Detroit long after Megatron retired. Stafford was consistently in that top 10 or 12 QB's conversation despite being paired with an awful franchise.  How many of his receivers/RB's can you name in Detroit over the last 5 years since Megatron retired in 2015?

Meanwhile, Justin Herbert had the # 32 ranked OL last season and still had a 31/10 season, arguably the greatest rookie QB campaign of all-time.  I get that he has Keenan Allen, but come on, are you really going to argue that without Allen, Herbert falls flat on his face last year?  Maybe he puts up a 25/15 type of season but still looks excellent without Allen.  It's also probably no coincidence that Mike Williams finally looks like a stud now with Herbert around.

I'm not saying QB's aren't impacted by their circumstances.  Only that if a QB has the goods, he's going to show it pretty soon, even if the talent around him isn't great.  

I dont see how Manning and Stafford playing well as veterans is relevant and I said they need to show it/play well but anywho, I was talking about rookie/young QB's elevating sh*tty teams.  That said, Herbert probably is the closest example of rising above it but you're being a leading misleading with his help by leaving out Hunter Henry and Austin Ekeler.  They're pretty freakin good.   And Williams went for 1000 yards the season before Herbert got there so it's not like the cupboard was barren.  That said, he is a good example.

As I'm sitting here watching pregame MNF for some reason, Lamar Jackson might be a better example.  His first full year, he was throwing to nobodies and Mark Andrews. 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

I dont see how Manning and Stafford playing well as veterans is relevant and I said they need to show it/play well but anywho, I was talking about rookie/young QB's elevating sh*tty teams.  That said, Herbert probably is the closest example of rising above it but you're being a leading misleading with his help by leaving out Hunter Henry and Austin Ekeler.  They're pretty freakin good.   And Williams went for 1000 yards the season before Herbert got there so it's not like the cupboard was barren.  That said, he is a good example.

As I'm sitting here watching pregame MNF for some reason, Lamar Jackson might be a better example.  His first full year, he was throwing to nobodies and Mark Andrews. 

Fair, I didn't intend to dismiss Ekeler, its just that Allen is who gets brought up most often as the reason for Herbert's success.  Ekeler definitely helps him a lot.

As for Hunter Henry, eh...he's not even the best TE on his own team at the moment.  He's a top half of the league TE but nothing special.

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7 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

I want to see Douglas break the trend of sh*tty skill players . Mahomes and Herbert are 2 examples of why you bring a young QB into a talented offense loaded at every position. I'm sure Douglas was looking at the OL first in preparation for Zach and Im also sure he must see Davis is not the answer at WR 1 so lets hope he uses our number one picks next year which should both be good and signs some real talent. I would also love to see him Target a stud WR in FA if one is available or even trade for one if need be.

The offense is all out of sorts outside of the occasional sandlot play from Wilson. Will continue to beat this drum but the Jets preseason intensity/preparation was beyond bizarre. It looked like they were practicing for the pro bowl.

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At the time I envisioned an offensive line with Becton, Sewell and Alijah Vera Tucker...I like what Wilson brings to the table but the offensive line needs a veteran presence like Faneca when he came in and was between Brick and Mangold

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

In order to understand the people who voted yes, the bottom line is not drafting Zach, but key decisions that came later. I would not have drafted Elijah More, because everyone knew the biggest thing that you can do to protect Wilson was draft olinemen.  I would have drafted C Creed Humphrey, and would not have drafted Hamsah Nasirildeen, instead would have gone G Trey Smith. So the draft would have ended like this:
Round 1 · Pick 2 (2) Zach Wilson QB Brigham Young
Round 1 · Pick 14 (14) Alijah Vera-Tucker G USC  
Round 2 · Pick 2 (34) Creed Humphrey C Oklahoma
Round 4 · Pick 2 (107) Michael Carter RB North Carolina
Round 5 · Pick 2 (146) Jamien Sherwood SAF Auburn
Round 5 · Pick 10 (154) Michael Carter II CB Duke
Round 5 · Pick 31 (175) Jason Pinnock CB Pittsburgh  
Round 6 · Pick 2 (186) Trey Smith G Tennessee
Round 6 · Pick 16 (200) Brandin Echols CB Kentucky 
Round 6 · Pick 23 (207) Jonathan Marshall DT Arkansas  

With this draft the Jets are 2-3 or 3-2. 

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6 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

The offense is all out of sorts outside of the occasional sandlot play from Wilson. Will continue to beat this drum but the Jets preseason intensity/preparation was beyond bizarre. It looked like they were practicing for the pro bowl.

Its funny Matt I was going to say the exact same thing in the sand lot analogy. I'm waiting for a Jets offensive player to take a slant 50 yards or a RB break at the very least a 25 yard run. The easy thing for everyone to do is blame the running game on the OL when they have not been that bad. I have seen backs miss holes and not break tackles like they should be doing. Any big play we have had starts with Zach's arm and him making something out of nothing. This is not the way to bring a young QB into the NFL we need players who can take pressure off him and make plays and its just not happening. While I have seen Zach screw up a few 3rd down plays I have seen Jets receivers fail in an Epic way on third down and this has to be a huge let down for the young QB .I mean in one game the Jets WR's dropped 5 third down passes that would have extended drives and drop 3 passes that led to interceptions....this kind of crap can't happen

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42 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Look at a guy like Herbert who was drafted by a team with studs all over the offense. When he dumps to his back things happen ...look at his receivers who are as good as any in the NFL already in an established offense meaning they have been playing together for years before Herbert was even drafted. Its much easier for a QB to come to a team already established rather than be in Zachs position with all new players and a rookie OC.

How nice would it be for Zach to have Keenan Allen, Mike Williams and Austin Eckler ? Think things might be a little different ? All these QB's that seem to do well right out of the gate usually have studs to help them along. We have Corey Davis "if the ball is not right in my chest forget about me catching it." 

Its the same story with the Jets rather than making a splash with skill players to support the QB we surround him with crap and expect him to get it done. How many drives do our WR's stop by dropping the ball on 3rd down ? Davis has done that about 5 or 6 times that I know of along with 2 drops he tipped into the defenders hands and Berrios contributed one of those as well. You have to help a young QB by making a play every now and then. How many times ahs Zach benefited from a play made by a WR or RB doing something special ? ZERO times. 

Look they chose drafting Zach over filling the team with very high potential draft picks and skill position players. If they had traded down they could have drafted more of them. As for Davis he’s made great plays but also killed drives. Hopefully he’ll settle down and be a lot more productive. 

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12 minutes ago, NYDreamer said:

At the time I envisioned an offensive line with Becton, Sewell and Alijah Vera Tucker...I like what Wilson brings to the table but the offensive line needs a veteran presence like Faneca when he came in and was between Brick and Mangold

 

 

Fant and Moses provide a good solid Vet presence they have started to gel pretty good if we can replace Van Rotten we might be getting somewhere

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50 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

Wilson has great arm talent.   He flicks the ball effortlessly.

 
How you could answer “No” to mobility is for lack of a better word, crazy.  The guy is almost impossible to sack with just one rusher.  He wiggles away from them with ease, in fact, they often completely whiff.  Why he refuses to run for a first down is frustrating and a different matter.

Accuracy has been poor.  Reading the defense has been poor, and he continues to stare down receivers.  
 

Still,  I think he has plenty of confidence in himself.  It’s the intense look on Wilson’s face.   Some QBs that struggle, you see the depressed and defeated look.  Wilson looks pissed.  That is a positive.  I am still optimistic about him.

I asked where Wilson was "elite" talent wise. Do you really believe he has elite mobility on the level of a Lamar Jackson, Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray or even Josh Allen? Zach Wilson has 22 rushing yards on the season. 

If you want to argue that Wilson has an elite release of the ball, sure, I'll concede on that point. 

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6 minutes ago, varjet said:

With this draft the Jets are 2-3 or 3-2. 

I liked Humphrey as well and we could have moved McGovern to RG and dumped Van Rotten which would have looked much better IMHO ...maybe keep Rotten as a depth player i9n that secnario. I also think if we went this rout we have a ton of picks next year in the first 3 rounds to spend on Skill players and also a good amount of cap space to sign a top WR

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21 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Fair, I didn't intend to dismiss Ekeler, its just that Allen is who gets brought up most often as the reason for Herbert's success.  Ekeler definitely helps him a lot.

As for Hunter Henry, eh...he's not even the best TE on his own team at the moment.  He's a top half of the league TE but nothing special.

You're underselling Henry.  And BB disagrees with you because he plays 75% of the snaps vs Smith 55%.  Has more receptions, yards, TD's because he's better.  Smith has never put up in his best season, the worst season of Henry statistically.  Incredibly consistent, he's 12th in receptions in the last 5 years among TE's and that's with missing an entire year.  On that list are dudes in front of him that are done and washed up and only a few that you would take over him that have entered the league since.  He's easily top 10 at the position, IMO.

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4 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I asked where Wilson was "elite" talent wise. Do you really believe he has elite mobility on the level of a Lamar Jackson, Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray or even Josh Allen? Zach Wilson has 22 rushing yards on the season. 

If you want to argue that Wilson has an elite release of the ball, sure, I'll concede on that point. 

If Zach would run the ball more (because he has had some openings to do so) he would be fine in that category probably closer to a Russel Wilson than the other guys but I don't think he's looking to run the ball much and maybe that needs to change to at the very least spark the offense. He does have the speed to run the ball and most QB's who tuck and run it are not touched until they are 10 + yards down field. Its different for Jackson and Allen because those guys have designed runs so they get hit more often and early. 

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58 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

5 weeks in, and you’re encouraged that 31% of those answering wouldn’t draft Wilson if they could do it over again? Almost 1/3 of the respondents are already giving up on the #2 pick in the draft. That’s a stunning number after seeing him play 5 games.

I’d be willing to bet if the same poll was run 5 weeks into Sam’s rookie year (he was seeing ghosts then and about to get fitted for a walking boot) over 90% would’ve still drafted him.

 

 

Yes.

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2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

You're exhausting when you do this thing you love to do.  You know, chiming in mid way through the conversation and completely missing context.  It gets tiring to have to explain sh*t to you over and over again when you do this because you can simply read the thread and understand the conversation and context but since I love you, I will explain for you, once again.

Because you dont read and just have a weird obsession with me, you clearly missed the post where Rhg said "hey guys! Look at the Josh Allen progression.  Maybe Wilson doesnt have his mobility but he has his arm, you can put his arm up there with anyone in the league"

JiF politely disagrees and says, "it's a bit overrated IMO.  He doesnt have Allen/Mahomes/Stafford arm (putting him in that category is overrating his arm, just incase that didnt register for you).  No knock on Zach, he's got a great arm, they're just elite.

Jet Nut - wha wha wha wha JiFsaid something about Zach Wilson omg omg omg Im going to argue for the sake of arguing even though I dont know what I'm saying and it's great because listen to the "experts" like Tony Romo!!!

I stopped reading your nonsense after that because I politely asked you to ignore me on this topic.  You become an a$$hole and I dont know why.  And moving forward, read the entire conversation before wrongly inserting your into the thread. 

 

Its not exhausting to anyone who can read.  I said he has arm talent and arm strength and everyone who knows anything about the game not named Jif gets that,.  You can disagree with it but dont tell me theyre all wrong, it make you sound like a fool. So yes you and Matt, who's clueless to the game of football can high five each other alone.  Because, hey, Romo, Warner, Rodgers, everyone who's played the game disagrees with you and theyre idiots and apparently I am for having seen it live and for not agreeing with one lone dissenting voice from his TV in Jax or wherever you live

Dont read what I write, have a circle jerk with yourself.  Youre fighting with QUOTES I posted and calling me names for quoting ex and current NFL QBs and for not believing what you have to say over those I quoted?  Youre really that butt hurt?  Funny, were you on vacation when Zach played well last week?  After I clearly said that it all means nothing if he doesnt develop but thats not enough for you.  Call it assholeness while being a first class d*%*.  Amazes me when clowns on the board like you resort to name calling and then cry that someone calls you a name in response.  Its attractive and mature of you but please dont respond to me since Im an a$$hole and you've yet to come up with anything that makes you sound smart.  Plus for the rare time I put someone on ignore.  Congrats 

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On 10/11/2021 at 7:03 PM, Green Ghost said:

5 weeks in, and you’re encouraged that 31% of those answering wouldn’t draft Wilson if they could do it over again? Almost 1/3 of the respondents are already giving up on the #2 pick in the draft. That’s a stunning number after seeing him play 5 games.

I’d be willing to bet if the same poll was run 5 weeks into Sam’s rookie year (he was seeing ghosts then and about to get fitted for a walking boot) over 90% would’ve still drafted him.

 

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image.thumb.png.33daf4c6b32daf94d1625b5bcfe25a1c.png

Somehow more than 2-1 voted they would draft him again and hes turning it around and making it into 31%  are ready to move on?  Who cares, Id bet the vote was the same not to draft him in the first place.  

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12 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

If Zach would run the ball more (because he has had some openings to do so) he would be fine in that category probably closer to a Russel Wilson than the other guys but I don't think he's looking to run the ball much and maybe that needs to change to at the very least spark the offense. He does have the speed to run the ball and most QB's who tuck and run it are not touched until they are 10 + yards down field. Its different for Jackson and Allen because those guys have designed runs so they get hit more often and early. 

I'm not arguing that Zach Wilson isn't mobile, he probably has above average mobility. I'm just arguing that it is not elite. 

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7 minutes ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

I didnt want him drafted in the first place. Always smelled like a bust to me, but we are stuck with him for at least 3 years so it is what it is.

Hopefully he turns it around as the season goes. 

 

 

Agreed with the first part, but if doesn't improve (and he should improve), he might be facing a veteran for competition by year 3. 

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1 minute ago, maury77 said:

I'm not arguing that Zach Wilson isn't mobile, he probably has above average mobility. I'm just arguing that it is not elite. 

speaking of mobility...the throw at 1:05 with about 20 yards in front of him to run...just wtf

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10 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

speaking of mobility...the throw at 1:05 with about 20 yards in front of him to run...just wtf

Wait he missed a throw or threw it away?  You dont say?

Dump him and that Mahomes guy who missed more than a few last night and was picked off twice.

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4 minutes ago, Pichula said:

Rookie QB makes mistake, alert the national press. 

That's not a rookie mistake. 2 and and short with a mile of open field in front of you and in desperate need of a first down and you dont tuck and run? Not sure why he's been hesitant to run it when he's got some athleticism.

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1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

That's not a rookie mistake. 2 and and short with a mile of open field in front of you and in desperate need of a first down and you dont tuck and run? Not sure why he's been hesitant to run it when he's got some athleticism.

who gives it a ****. It’s one play. Move on. I’ve seen every hall of fame QB in the history of football make the same mistake. Including Rodgers in the NFCCG last year. 

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13 minutes ago, Pichula said:

who gives it a ****. It’s one play. Move on. I’ve seen every hall of fame QB in the history of football make the same mistake. Including Rodgers in the NFCCG last year. 

who cares about anything

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1 hour ago, NYDreamer said:

At the time I envisioned an offensive line with Becton, Sewell and Alijah Vera Tucker...I like what Wilson brings to the table but the offensive line needs a veteran presence like Faneca when he came in and was between Brick and Mangold

 

 

They have it. McGovern. He just sucks.

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50 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Its not exhausting to anyone who can read.  I said he has arm talent and arm strength and everyone who knows anything about the game not named Jif gets that,.  You can disagree with it but dont tell me theyre all wrong, it make you sound like a fool. So yes you and Matt, who's clueless to the game of football can high five each other alone.  Because, hey, Romo, Warner, Rodgers, everyone who's played the game disagrees with you and theyre idiots and apparently I am for having seen it live and for not agreeing with one lone dissenting voice from his TV in Jax or wherever you live

Dont read what I write, have a circle jerk with yourself.  Youre fighting with QUOTES I posted and calling me names for quoting ex and current NFL QBs and not believing what you have to say over those I quoted?  Youre really that butt hurt?  After I clearly said that it all means nothing if he doesnt develop but thats not enough for you.  Call it assholeness while being a first class d*%*.  Amazes me when clowns on the board like you resort to name calling and then cry that someone calls you a name in response.  Its attractive and mature of you but please dont respond to me since Im an a$$hole and you've yet to come up with anything that makes you sound smart.  

Who's Matt? 

lmfao

 

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2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

100% but take it a step further, not only is he learning how to nurture a rookie QB, he's also learning how to be an OC.  Like, think about that undertaking.  Lil Mikey is learning how to manage an entire an offense players and staff, learning how to game plan week to week, learning how to call plays, learning how to adjust and learning how to develop a raw rookie QB who needs a ton of work.  

I honestly cant tell if it's arrogance, lunacy, masochism or just typical Jets incompetence. 

It’s like a couple of dudes who never ran a business but decide they can open a bar because they’ve been in a bunch of bars.

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5 hours ago, JiFapono said:

That's fine.  I'm not saying that Sam was the long term answer but in this scenario, what's the harm?  You can always keep looking.

And just in general, I dont really buy into the idea that QB's rise above circumstances.  I really cant think of any examples off the rip.  Even the greats and the mega stars, were typically loaded with talent.  Peyton Manning played with 3 HOF'ers on offense; Harrison, Wayne, James.  Big Ben?  Look at Matt Stafford right now.  Now, play well?  Yes but like truly rise from the ashes, meh, very few examples. 

Idk man - QB is the most important position but the idea they can do it on their own?   Nah.  Like, I aint even ready to give up on Wilson.  The Jets are ******* terrible and no QB was rising above this...play better?  Sure.  100% but like truly shine?  Nah.  Just dont see it.  Hence why I wanted as many picks as possible. 

 

If you play with Sam this year you get zip in trade. This was the time.

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2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’s like a couple of dudes who never ran a business but decide they can open a bar because they’ve been in a bunch of bars.

Tell me about it, sounds great on paper, hire a bunch of hot chicks, drink all the booze, sleep with the clientele, start a couple of brawls, get in the red and make a couple backdoor deals and the next thing you know your on your knees "begging for forgiveness" behind the trash out back just to make sure you have enough Natural Light for the patrons.

 

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10 hours ago, JiFapono said:

That's fun and you can do this a lot but Zach Wilson doesnt have an ounce of the talent or physicality that Josh Allen posses. 

Sucking is a sign of greatness. Gotta love this fanbase!

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