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One Sided Failure - Bye Week Edition


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If we’re ranking problems of the team the biggest issue is the offense not getting first downs until there’s 5 minutes left in the first half.  They’re a very young team playing from behind double digits each game and the offense needs to be functional for 60 minutes not 35.

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I think the roster at this stage is a couple of offseasons away from being legitimately competitive. Maybe they get lucky and it’s one, but I think it’s two.

Both sides of the ball need work, but the offense has to be the priority because there’s a young quarterback they’re developing.

But it’s a talent issue, so although they can make little tweaks here and there this season I think there’s only so much that can be done to improve the offense beyond the QB maturing and the OL gelling or benefitting from Becton coming back.

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Meh

After a single 3 and out by the offense the team was down 10 points. That’s how the game started. Yea the offense starts slow and LaFleur’s gameplan and Wilson’s mechanics should be questioned, the defense needs to start better than that.

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Talent and experience is the issue from GM to players. I do like the plan and the coaches, it’s nice to see adjustments at halftime for once. The team is 2 drafts away and 2 years of experience away. It doesn’t feel like a circus like years past or players quitting. 

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12 minutes ago, jgb said:

JD dumped tons of resources (cash and draft picks) into the offense this off season. The problem isn't which side we are or are not prioritizing, it's whiffing badly on acquisitions.

I wasn't complaining about what's been done retrospectively - maybe you assumed I was - but I'm not really sure how to respond otherwise since it's a bit of a tangent from my post. I would argue that defense got pretty equal attention in FA, if not more, but again my post was intended to be forward looking.

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1 minute ago, derp said:

I wasn't complaining about what's been done retrospectively - maybe you assumed I was - but I'm not really sure how to respond otherwise since it's a bit of a tangent from my post. I would argue that defense got pretty equal attention in FA, if not more, but again my post was intended to be forward looking.

I hear ya my point is focus don't matter when you're putting up air balls

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3 minutes ago, jgb said:

I hear ya my point is focus don't matter when you're putting up air balls

I think the team was so bad it's hard to build (particularly via the draft and short FA contracts), the idea that they're 0-fer in acquisitions is probably a little hyperbolic, and if you assume they're going to miss on everything there's really no point to following the team right?

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Just now, derp said:

I think the team was so bad it's hard to build (particularly via the draft and short FA contracts), the idea that they're 0-fer in acquisitions is probably a little hyperbolic, and if you assume they're going to miss on everything there's really no point to following the team right?

I was simplifying. Didn't mean JD has literally found zero value in acquisitions. But way below expected value.

And I counter that it should be easier to find contributors on a terrible team. You only need to find players that are better than garbage.

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The offense is clearly the weak link, but the defense has its issues as well.  They just gave up 450 yards of offense to a Falcons team missing its top 2 WRs.  They could not get off the field for the vast majority of the game.  They got lucky with two fumbles or the Falcons may have hung 40 points on them.

The Jets need to try new things on offense.  I'd like to see more Jet sweeps and more slant patterns.  Quick reads that get the ball out quickly.  And please can be stop with the constant bunch formations.

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Disagree.

The Jets have net 11 passing yards and 0 points in Q1s this year.
Zach Wilson has thrown more INTs than First Downs in Q1s this year.
The Jets RBs have combined for 65 yards over 21 rushing attempts for 0 TDs and 4 First Downs in Q1s this year.
The Jets have played 5 Q1s this year. 

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1 minute ago, greenwichjetfan said:

The Jets have net 11 passing yards and 0 points in Q1s this year.
Zach Wilson has thrown more INTs than First Downs in Q1s this year.
The Jets RBs have combined for 65 yards over 21 rushing attempts for 0 TDs and 4 First Downs in Q1s this year.
The Jets have played 4 Q1s this year. 

I was told that would all be resolved when Adam Gase left. 

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12 minutes ago, jgb said:

I was simplifying. Didn't mean JD has literally found zero value in acquisitions. But way below expected value.

And I counter that it should be easier to find contributors on a terrible team. You only need to find players that are better than garbage.

I think fans overstate expected value of acquisitions by a pretty wide margin. Not saying they've hit expected value - but I think those big acquisitions have a lot less EV than fan expectations.

Better than garbage only helps so much. I think we saw that with the OL acquisitions Douglas' first offseason who were mostly better than their predecessors but not really able to make any appreciable impact.

I think finding contributors on a bad team is more complicated in a sport like football than something like baseball or maybe even basketball.

As an example, there's a brief discussion about Rondale Moore and Elijah Moore in another thread - I'm fairly confident if you flipped their situations then Rondale would be looking ugly on the Jets and Elijah would be making plays on the Cardinals. But you've got Murray's run threat, him being on fire throwing the ball, an absolute elite playmaker in Hopkins - defenses can't key in on Moore there.

Better offenses just have so much more space on the field for guys to make plays - but it's because defenses have to account for more. The Jets still don't have that guy who scares defenses - it's looked like they've been playing 12 on 11 when they're on offense for pretty much as long as I can remember.

They may eventually be able to create some space with the right guys because Wilson is very willing to attack downfield but regardless of who's doing the player acquisition that will require bringing in more threats and Wilson maturing too.

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1 hour ago, bostonmajet said:

Tired or not, the Defense gave up a drive in the end of the game; had they held when they needed to things would have been different - Yes the offense has struggled, but it is a team sport.

There's also the old adage that the other team gets paid to win too. The Falcons put up 20 first half points to our 3, largely because they dominated TOP due to our offense barely being on the field. Q1 was over 11 minutes to ATL and less than 4 to NY, primarily because we couldn't even buy a first down.

Get some sustained drives going early, even if they only lead to FG's, and that deficit looks a lot easier to overcome.

Look at the offensive plays in the 1st quarter:

ATL - 14

NYJ - 3

ATL - 10

NYJ - 3

That's 80% of offensive plays by the opponent. 3m 20s possession by us, 11m 40s by them.

Overall we only had three possessions of >4 plays. That's not winning football games. ATL had only one drive that was <5 plays (the fumble after the INT).

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3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I was told that would all be resolved when Adam Gase left. 

Oh you're still stuck back there. Longing for Idzik and Mangini too? How's McCarthy doing in DAL btw? And where is Gase now-a-days? 

Here in the present, this team sucks and as I presented earlier, the offense is the primary reason for it. 

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9 minutes ago, derp said:

I think fans overstate expected value of acquisitions by a pretty wide margin.

Better than garbage only helps so much. I think we saw that with the OL acquisitions Douglas' first offseason who were mostly better than their predecessors but not really able to make any appreciable impact.

I think finding contributors on a bad team is more complicated in a sport like football than something like baseball or maybe even basketball.

As an example, there's a brief discussion about Rondale Moore and Elijah Moore in another thread - I'm fairly confident if you flipped their situations then Rondale would be looking ugly on the Jets and Elijah would be making plays on the Cardinals. But you've got Murray's run threat, him being on fire throwing the ball, an absolute elite playmaker in Hopkins - defenses can't key in on Moore there.

Better offenses just have so much more space on the field for guys to make plays - but it's because defenses have to account for more. The Jets still don't have that guy who scares defenses - it's looked like they've been playing 12 on 11 when they're on offense for pretty much as long as I can remember.

They may eventually be able to create some space with the right guys because Wilson is very willing to attack downfield but regardless of who's doing the player acquisition that will require bringing in more threats and Wilson maturing too.

Very polite way to say I don't know what the Hell I'm talking about lol.

Bad teams are not destined to always be bad -- which is what your view suggests. Consistently acquiring good players shows up on the field. JD is good at unloading what little talent we had for a decent return but you can't trade away talent to become prosperous. At some point you need to execute the second half of that equation and use those acquired assets to bring talent back in. JD has failed at this, thus far.

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5 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Oh you're still stuck back there. Longing for Idzik and Mangini too? How's McCarthy doing in DAL btw? And where is Gase now-a-days? 

Here in the present, this team sucks and as I presented earlier, the offense is the primary reason for it. 

✅

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1 hour ago, KRL said:

There is only one side of the ball responsible for the 1-4 record we find ourselves with
as we enter the bye week.  Let's all say it together THE OFFENSE!!!  If they could've 
been competent in the first halves of games we could be 3-2 (CAR & ATL).  Here's the hideous
pattern we've seen over the first five games:

- The offense does less than nothing in the first half.
- The defense is on the field way too much and the team goes down two or more scores.
- The staff makes proper adjustments at halftime.
- The offense finally wakes up and makes a mad dash to get back into the game.
- The defense holds the line for the majority of the second half.  But all of the reps they
had in the first half catches up to them and during a key drive they break and give up
a big score:
  * Down in CAR 16-8 they give up the killer FG.
  * Up against TEN 24-17 they give up the tying TD.
  * Down in ATL 20-17 they give up the killer TD.

The Jets ability to outplay those three teams in the second half is a nice indication that
the coaching staff has "promise":

- They outscored CAR 14-3
- They outscored TEN 20-15
- They outscored ATL 17-7

So during this bye week Saleh/LaFleur have to figure out how to get out of this rut.  A couple
of suggestions:

- Get back to the basics of a "Shanahan" offense and establish the run (give Kyle a call during
the bye).  The play action game is worthless without a running game.
- Incorporate more screens (RB/WR) into the offense to get Wilson easy completions early on and
to get the ball into the hands of speedy players in space.
- Shake up the rotation reps at WR.  You may have "favorites" but those favorites haven't been 
getting the job done.  Mims needs more time on the field, let's see if he can provide a spark.

My 2 cents, let's see what happens.

Disagree with a lot of this

the offense had 3 snaps in the first quarter, that is because of the defense 

the defense had to stop two people on ATL and the game plan somehow allowed those two players to run free 

the offense did enough to make this a 3 point game with 7 minutes to go. 
 

team loss 

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1 hour ago, KRL said:

There is only one side of the ball responsible for the 1-4 record we find ourselves with
as we enter the bye week.  Let's all say it together THE OFFENSE!!!  If they could've 
been competent in the first halves of games we could be 3-2 (CAR & ATL).  Here's the hideous
pattern we've seen over the first five games:

- The offense does less than nothing in the first half.
- The defense is on the field way too much and the team goes down two or more scores.
- The staff makes proper adjustments at halftime.
- The offense finally wakes up and makes a mad dash to get back into the game.
- The defense holds the line for the majority of the second half.  But all of the reps they
had in the first half catches up to them and during a key drive they break and give up
a big score:
  * Down in CAR 16-8 they give up the killer FG.
  * Up against TEN 24-17 they give up the tying TD.
  * Down in ATL 20-17 they give up the killer TD.

The Jets ability to outplay those three teams in the second half is a nice indication that
the coaching staff has "promise":

- They outscored CAR 14-3
- They outscored TEN 20-15
- They outscored ATL 17-7

So during this bye week Saleh/LaFleur have to figure out how to get out of this rut.  A couple
of suggestions:

- Get back to the basics of a "Shanahan" offense and establish the run (give Kyle a call during
the bye).  The play action game is worthless without a running game.
- Incorporate more screens (RB/WR) into the offense to get Wilson easy completions early on and
to get the ball into the hands of speedy players in space.
- Shake up the rotation reps at WR.  You may have "favorites" but those favorites haven't been 
getting the job done.  Mims needs more time on the field, let's see if he can provide a spark.

My 2 cents, let's see what happens.

Totally agree on the halftime adjustments.Two plays killed them yesterday 1) the absurd roughing the QB on first drive2) the screen across the field in the 3rd Q that got blown up.

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1 hour ago, bostonmajet said:

Tired or not, the Defense gave up a drive in the end of the game; had they held when they needed to things would have been different - Yes the offense has struggled, but it is a team sport.

I felt like Saleh should have gone for it on 4 & 5 when the score was 20-17 with only four minutes left. Should not have punted it back to them, defense was on it heels.

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1 minute ago, NYJ37/12 said:

I felt like Saleh should have gone for it on 4 & 5 when the score was 20-17 with only four minutes left. Should not have punted it back to them, defense was on it heels.

Definitely.  Especially since the offense has so much trouble moving the ball and they were already in good field position.  Dial up your best freakin play.

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5 minutes ago, jgb said:

Very polite way to say I don't know what the Hell I'm talking about lol.

Bad teams are not destined to always be bad -- which is what your view suggests. Consistently acquiring good players shows up on the field. JD is good at unloading what little talent we had for a decent return but you can't trade away talent to become prosperous. At some point you need to execute the second half of that equation and use those acquired assets to bring talent back in. JD has failed at this, thus far.

My view is absolutely not that bad teams will always be bad, but that true rebuilds will take longer than fans have expected the Jets to rebuild.

I don't think they've done much of anything in FA beyond trying to assemble a replacement level roster that can at least play in games severely damaging the opportunity young guys have to grow - the benefit to that is the team's down from almost $30M in dead cap this season to under $1.5M next season right now. Good franchises don't spend in FA - I'm not too worried about what they've done with the band aids other than not ruin the franchise long-term, the good players don't tend to hit FA anyway.

Take out FA and that leaves not many premium draft picks that they've had to acquire players. And those guys are getting added to a roster that only has 5 starters right now who were on the team when Douglas was hired - four of whom are defenders. I don't think EV on each of those draft picks gets you to a good offense right now because the team was that bad.

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2 minutes ago, derp said:

My view is absolutely not that bad teams will always be bad, but that true rebuilds will take longer than fans have expected the Jets to rebuild.

I don't think they've done much of anything in FA beyond trying to assemble a replacement level roster that can at least play in games severely damaging the opportunity young guys have to grow - the benefit to that is the team's down from almost $30M in dead cap this season to under $1.5M next season right now. Good franchises don't spend in FA - I'm not too worried about what they've done with the band aids other than not ruin the franchise long-term, the good players don't tend to hit FA anyway.

Take out FA and that leaves not many premium draft picks that they've had to acquire players. And those guys are getting added to a roster that only has 5 starters right now who were on the team when Douglas was hired - four of whom are defenders. I don't think EV on each of those draft picks gets you to a good offense right now because the team was that bad.

Jets have been rebuilding since Ryan Fitzpatrick's disastrous second season here.. How long should a rebuild take, oh ye of great patience?

BTW any argument that suggests Jets fans lack patience is facially laughable. I know glaciers with less patience than Jets fans.

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We have faced a rookie QB, Sam Darnold who sucks, Teddy Bridgewater who was traded away and replaced by Sam Darnold and two good QB's who were without their top WR's.   The schedule is tailor made for the D to look good.  We face Allen twice and Brady.   I suspect Joe Borrow is going to carve his initials in our D's collective asses.   Lets see how great they are when we face good NFL QB's with weapons.  

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Not buying this it’s all the offense fault. 
 

The defense has failed to make stops when it matters. Example we get to 20-17 and Atlanta takes the field, easily marches down and makes it a 10 point game ending it. They got a few fumbles but are also the only team in football without an interception. When comparing the two sides I do agree the offense has been worse but I’m not buying into this narrative our D is dominant or somehow not responsible for losing. 

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Disagree.
Oh really ... pray tell sir ... claim you the defense ? Absurd , inane, calamitous .... your choice alludes the most eurodite of men.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

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HISTORY OF THE NEW YORK JETS FOR TWO DECADES:

2000: Offence slow start, gets us a chance to win, defence can't make a stop when needed.

2001: Offence slow start, gets us a chance to win, defence can't make a stop when needed.

2002: Offence slow start, gets us a chance to win, defence can't make a stop when needed.

2003: Offence slow start, gets us a chance to win, defence can't make a stop when needed.

2004: Offence slow start, gets us a chance to win, defence can't make a stop when needed.

2005: Offence slow start, gets us a chance to win, defence can't make a stop when needed.

2006: Offence slow start, gets us a chance to win, defence can't make a stop when needed.

2007: Offence slow start, gets us a chance to win, defence can't make a stop when needed.

2008: Offence slow start, gets us a chance to win, defence can't make a stop when needed.

2009: Offence slow start, gets us a chance to win, defence can't make a stop when needed.

2010: Offence slow start, gets us a chance to win, defence can't make a stop when needed.

2011: Offence slow start, gets us a chance to win, defence can't make a stop when needed.

2012: Offence slow start, gets us a chance to win, defence can't make a stop when needed.

2013: Offence slow start, gets us a chance to win, defence can't make a stop when needed.

2014: Offence slow start, gets us a chance to win, defence can't make a stop when needed.

2015: Offence slow start, gets us a chance to win, defence can't make a stop when needed.

2016: Offence slow start, gets us a chance to win, defence can't make a stop when needed.

2017: Offence slow start, gets us a chance to win, defence can't make a stop when needed.

2018: Offence slow start, gets us a chance to win, defence can't make a stop when needed.

2019: Offence slow start, gets us a chance to win, defence can't make a stop when needed.

2020: Offence slow start, gets us a chance to win, defence can't make a stop when needed.

 

To be fair, 2021 isn't over yet, but......

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2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

The team isn’t good and the offense certainly stinks but the defense has yet to record an interception. 

i believe they're way negative as far as turnovers go.  the funny thing is if they were getting turnovers they might have a 3-2 or even 4-1 record right now and all of the talk would be different.  it's kind of good that they aren't because now we can see an unvarnished team with all the flaws.

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