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Who is Zachs Hopkins or Diggs


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9 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes it is.

Davis can't catch, Moore can't get open, Cole is a JAG and Crowder has been out.  Crowder is still the best WR on this team and he's good - no question.

Right now ZW has one reliable WR, no TE and not a good pass catching RB.  Tough sledding for a young rookie QB.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but you are being overly protective of the QB. 

1) Crowder has played in the last two games. 

2) I've seen Zach miss an open Moore for what could have been several huge plays - including a play in the NE game that could have been a TD. 

3) Cole has made some huge catches for this team and Zach has also missed him for some potentially big plays - including in the most recent game. 

4) How many drops does Corey Davis have? 3? 4? (It's gotta be less than one per game). I'm not excusing them, but it's not like Zach is a totally different QB with <5 more completions. 

I agree that we desperately need an upgrade at TE, but we already knew this headed into the season. It's ok to admit that the rookie QB isn't playing well. He's played 5 games!

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21 minutes ago, defensedoesntgetyoulaid said:

 

One thing I hear a lot is how terrible Allen was as a rookie. It's true he was wildly inconsistent, but worth pointing out that his WRs room consisted of Say Jones, Kelvin Benjamin, Robert Foster and Deonte Thompson. 

Only Jones is still in the league.

No rookie qb has ever been as bad as Zach, well, maybe Ryan Leaf

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5 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

 

 

I'm sorry, but you are being overly protective of the QB. 

1) Crowder has played in the last two games. 

2) I've seen Zach miss an open Moore for what could have been several huge plays - including a play in the NE game that could have been a TD. 

3) Cole has made some huge catches for this team and Zach has also missed him for some potentially big plays - including in the most recent game. 

4) How many drops does Corey Davis have? 3? 4? (It's gotta be less than one per game). I'm not excusing them, but it's not like Zach is a totally different QB with <5 more completions. 

I agree that we desperately need an upgrade at TE, but we already knew this headed into the season. It's ok to admit that the rookie QB isn't playing well. He's played 5 games!

We'll have to simply disagree here.

I've been clear ZW hasn't been great, but rookie QB's need help if they're expected to succeed.  They need WR's that can make plays for them, a running game that can open up the passing game a bit.  Ultimately they need talent that can take some pressure off of them.   You can say what you want about Zach but the NY Jets are doing nothing at all to help him.  

Your original point was good players wouldn't' help Zach because he sucks, that talent around him is already very good and if they were upgraded to the top players in the league it wouldn't matter.

I'm sorry but I just disagree with that - I think, other than Crowder, the Jets WR's aren't very good.

Corey Davis should be a rotational WR, certainly not a #1, I would argue not a #2 even - he has about 7 drops I can count - all of which seemed to have come on 3rd down.  That's without counting the contested balls that #1 WR's are expected to come down with that fall incomplete.

Again, Zach hasn't been great, he's made a ton of rookie mistakes and looks awful at times...but he also hasn't gotten a lot of help.  It can be both.

If you gave ZW better WR's he would be better.

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8 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

 

Your original point was good players wouldn't' help Zach because he sucks, that talent around him is already very good and if they were upgraded to the top players in the league it wouldn't matter.

Uhm, I never wrote or implied anything of the sort. This is a complete fabrication. Obviously, surrounding a QB with more good and elite NFL players would help him! Come on. 

You seem a little too emotionally invested in defending the QB to have a rational discussion. When you start quoting me accurately, we can talk. 

Until then, just realize that Zach's PFF grades were in the 50s last week. He was bad. He's 5 weeks into his NFL career so we know it's not time to panic, but he was bad on Sunday. You don't have to make stuff up to defend his honor - Zach has plenty of time to figure this new gig out. 

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6 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

This simply isn’t true and you know this. You’re throwing sh*t at the wall to bother people & I know this because you provide absolutely zero substance behind anything you’ve said in the last 2-3 threads.

What has Zach shown so far since stinking up the Green and White Scrimmage and then playing horribly in 4 out of 5 regular season games?

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Just now, FidelioJet said:

Where's the source he doesn't?

LMAO, dude, come on. 

You are the one who put a precise number on it. I wrote 3 or 4 with question marks because I legit do not know hw many drops Davis has. You wrote that Davis has "about 7 drops I can count"

I'm asking you to name the plays that you have supposedly counted OR provide a corroborating source for this information. 

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3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Uhm, I never wrote or implied anything of the sort. This is a complete fabrication. Obviously, surrounding a QB with more good and elite NFL players would help him! Come on. 

You seem a little too emotionally invested in defending the QB to have a rational discussion. When you start quoting me accurately, we can talk. 

Until then, just realize that Zach's PFF grades were in the 50s last week. He was bad. He's 5 weeks into his NFL career so we know it's not time to panic, but he was bad on Sunday. You don't have to make stuff up to defend his honor - Zach has plenty of time to figure this new gig out. 

I think it was clearly implied - in a thread about getting our young QB upgraded WRs.- and your comment was the Jets WR's are fine and the QB is just missing open receivers.

Seems pretty clear your point was better talent wouldn't help him.  How else should that have been taken?

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10 hours ago, jamesr said:

Allen was still a very big question mark when they went after Diggs. Diggs' arrival contributed greatly to Allen's development IMHO. Allen's accuracy was still a question in his first year, though he undoubtedly possessed the high ceiling, he was still "boom or bust" at that stage.

Getting us a top notch WR would not be a bad thing by any means. Davis is OK to good, but not Diggs level good.

Allen looked like a RB playing QB for his first 2 years. Then he made an amazing transformation into an accurate passer. Allen is the only QB I can remember that went from very poor accuracy to excellent accuracy seemingly overnight.

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Just now, slimjasi said:

LMAO, dude, come on. 

You are the one who put a precise number on it. I wrote 3 or 4 with question marks because I legit do not know hw many drops Davis has. You wrote that Davis has "about 7 drops I can count"

I'm asking you to name the plays that you have supposedly counted OR provide a corroborating source for this information. 

well, I said "about"

You said 3 or 4 in your prior post. 

The source is I watch the Jets every week and see what's happening.  He's dropped a first down in EVERY game in the first half - that is a certainty -  and he's dropped at least 3 or so more over the 5 games, so maybe I was underestimating...probably closer to 8 or 9.

I never liked that "source?" sh-- on this board.  it just feels like a weak argument.

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1 minute ago, Albaniajet said:

What has Zach shown so far since stinking up the Green and White Scrimmage and then playing horribly in 4 out of 5 regular season games?

This is literally the entire issue, genius. How can you not see that? You’re condemning him after a 5 game showing playing under fire, on the youngest team & coaching staff in the entire league. No one is saying be encouraged after 5 games, we are saying give him more than 5 ******* games.

you sound awfully short sighted at this very moment & that’s the nicest way I can put it, that, or, your intentions from the start was to act this way because you’re a troll. Either way, bad look.

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2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I think it was clearly implied - in a thread about getting our young QB upgraded WRs.- and your comment was the Jets WR's are fine and the QB is just missing open receivers.

Seems pretty clear your point was better talent wouldn't help him.  How else should that have been taken?

Just because he's missing open WRs (an indisputable fact) doesn't mean that getting him Megatron wouldn't help him, lol. Again, you are reaching. 

As for the bolded - No, I never wrote or implied anything of the sort. I believe his WRs are good enough for him to develop and improve - and for him to be playing a lot better than he has played, so far. That's really all my initial comment meant. Stop reaching. 

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1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

well, I said "about"

You said 3 or 4 in your prior post. 

The source is I watch the Jets every week and see what's happening.  He's dropped a first down in EVERY game in the first half - that is a certainty -  and he's dropped at least 3 or so more over the 5 games, so maybe I was underestimating...probably closer to 8 or 9.

I never liked that "source?" sh-- on this board.  it just feels like a weak argument.

So, when you wrote that Davis has "about 7 drops I can count" -You were pulling that number out of your ass. You have no idea if that number is correct. Gotcha. That's all you had to say. 

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4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

So, when you wrote that Davis has "about 7 drops I can count" -You were pulling that number out of your ass. You have no idea if that number is correct. Gotcha. That's all you had to say. 

Yes, if you expect me to pull up video and show all the drops you're asking too much. 

Just like when you said 3 or 4.

It really is just silly that it's okay for you ask for a source but I can't.  Dude drops a lot of passes...he's not a reliable WR.  that's not even really a question at this point.

Either way I'm done with this ridiculous argument right now.

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1 hour ago, Claymation said:

You put Chase, Higgins and Boyd on this team with Zach and his cmp% would be around 70%

If the 9 drops were all completions, we'd still be 1-4.

Do you have advanced stats for Balls Thrown At Ankles of WR's?  Because I've seen more than 9 of those.

SAR I

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5 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes, if you expect me to pull up video and show all the drops you're asking too much. 

Just like when you said 3 or 4.

It really is just silly that it's okay for you ask for a source but I can't.  Dude drops a lot of passes...he's not a reliable WR.  that's not even really a question at this point.

Either way I'm done with this ridiculous argument right now.

Corey Davis has only dropped two passes. Now you can make an argument that the offense has combined for a few ugly drops because there are 3 NYJ’s on a top 10 list but Zach needs to hit on those passes more often than not.

 

 

8FD4EF44-236C-4846-9D2B-B52FB100A6C5.jpeg

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1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

Corey Davis has only dropped two passes. Now you can make an argument that the offense has combined for a few ugly drops because there are 3 NYJ’s on a top 10 list but Zach needs to hit on those passes more often than not.

 

C5C7717F-1A60-4369-8695-A372CC20376F.jpeg

Stop. I don't even see Davis on this list...

It's interesting because what you're telling me is something that I know for a FACT to be incorrect, as I've actually watched the games.  Maybe you haven't.  I must say, you have a lot of opinions for a guy that hasn't watched the games..

Because if you have watched the games you couldn't possibly make a claim that Corey Davis only has two drops.

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1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

Stop. I don't even see Davis on this list...

It's interesting because what you're telling me is something that I know for a FACT to be incorrect, as I've actually watched the games.  Maybe you haven't.  I must say, you have a lot of opinions for a guy that hasn't watched the games..

Because if you have watched the games you couldn't possibly make a claim that Corey Davis only has two drops.

The QB has to throw an accurate pass for the ball to be dropped…

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18 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes, if you expect me to pull up video and show all the drops you're asking too much. 

Just like when you said 3 or 4.

It really is just silly that it's okay for you ask for a source but I can't.  Dude drops a lot of passes...he's not a reliable WR.  that's not even really a question at this point.

Either way I'm done with this ridiculous argument right now.

I didn't say "3 or 4" -  I asked how many he had with question marks (i.e. 3? 4? more? less?) Are you familiar with question marks? You then wrote that he has "about 7 drops I can count"  - I was simply asking you to defend 7, which sounded like a huge overestimation. 

Guess what? I was right - Google tells me that the official number is anywhere from 2-4, depending on the source. Either way, that's less than one per game.

The bottom line: We are quibbling over a handful (less than 5) plays, but the reality is that Zach has 171 pass attempts. Over those 171 pass attempts, he has a 23.9 QBR and 9 interceptions (at least 1 in every game, so far). He's not playing well and is a weakness on offense right now. It's ok to admit that. 

Listen, there are still some things to like - he also has had a handful of amazing throws and he has consistently been better in the second half than the first half. There is plenty to build on. But you have to be honest about where things are right now. 

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9 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Stop. I don't even see Davis on this list...

It's interesting because what you're telling me is something that I know for a FACT to be incorrect, as I've actually watched the games.  Maybe you haven't.  I must say, you have a lot of opinions for a guy that hasn't watched the games..

Because if you have watched the games you couldn't possibly make a claim that Corey Davis only has two drops.

Yeah because I screen shotted the pic wrong. Go look again dude. He’s right under crowder. I watch every single game just like you do. Don’t do that dumb sh*t and bring up people who actually watch games because I’ve watched far too many. I am not saying it’s all on Zach but yea 2 drops for Davis so far. You’re wrong if you say different. It’s right in front of your face.

 

38D83E0B-87A5-4ADD-B7EA-DD93511C0DA0.jpeg

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10 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

It's interesting because what you're telling me is something that I know for a FACT to be incorrect, as I've actually watched the games.  Maybe you haven't.  I must say, you have a lot of opinions for a guy that hasn't watched the games.

Friend - the poster you are now quibbling with is quoting an actual source for how many drops Davis has. It's not 7. I have seen 2 in one source and 4 in another. Even if we go with 4, it's not 7 and less than 1 per game. 

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2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Friend - the poster you are now quibbling with is quoting an actual source for how many drops Davis has. It's not 7. I have seen 2 in one source and 4 in another. Even if we go with 4, it's not 7 and less than 1 per game. 

From the source I posted, nobody in the league has even dropped 7 yet! Just goes to show how hard it is to argue with 5 games worth of data. It’s useless stuff. The sports world is just way too reactionary and “in the moment”. Sometimes it’s good to just watch for a while. We’ll know more in 5 more games.

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4 hours ago, jgb said:

Weapons obviously help but they don't turn a terrible QB into a FQB. Wilson either has it within him or he does not. Joe Walsh said it takes 1.5 seasons worth of starts to know with confidence. 

* Or 13 in Josh Rosen's case

+ I wasn't aware the same guy who wrote Rocky Mountain Way is also a QB expert.  Learn something new every day!

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