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Zach Wilson's struggles with play action


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Call me crazy but this may be because you cant run play action without a run game.  Wilson hasnt struggled with it, its useless no matter who the QB is without the treat of the run.  This is just plai

You dont know Football, bro! Like, did you ever play, broseph?    Dont question Jet Nut, he was the QB of his Pop Warner team and listens to Tony Romo!  He knows everything there is to know about

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“Ghastly” struggles? Ok

But I agree, Wilson likes reading the defense pre snap and then reacting to whet it does. 
 

I am not sure what we are trying to do off play play action but that first read doesn’t seem to be open enough 

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One major problem is that the Jets don't create any mismatches - that I can see anyway. I guess that might be because they don't have any. You need Mims on the field maybe even in the slot to create an advantage. Our tight ends are so bad that the defense has a mismatch against our offense. This offense is pretty much a disaster and I blame LaFluer - should never have a rookie OC teamed with a rookie QB - not a recipe for success.

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2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Call me crazy but this may be because you cant run play action without a run game.  Wilson hasnt struggled with it, its useless no matter who the QB is without the treat of the run.  This is just plain  dumb to say Zach has struggled with it

Numbers don't lie in addition to his mechanical flaws and decision making process. Sorry to say this, but yeah crazy.

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7 minutes ago, Bronx said:

Numbers don't lie in addition to his mechanical flaws and decision making process. Sorry to say this, but yeah crazy.

Then you dont understand how play action works.  You can be great at hiding the ball going through the motion of play action like Chad was and Peyton was but without a running game it doesn't work. It totally relies on a team reacting to an effective running game.  Something this team isnt close to showing at this point, no one is scared of our run attack 

Blaming it on Zach kind of shows you dont understand how it works

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Good article, thanks for posting. The passing rate on first down in the first quarter versus later in the game probably correlates with the early game struggles and playing better in the second half. And the success on quick throws matches what things look like and is mildly encouraging.

Get him quick throws on first down early in the game to build momentum. Seems obvious  and the stats appear to back that up. Hopefully an adjustment they can make after the bye.

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1 hour ago, Bronx said:

Wilson has an adjusted completion percentage (which accounts for drops, batted passes, throwaways, etc.) of 89.5% on throws that were released under 2.5 seconds after the snap. That ranks fourth-best in the NFL.

I love when I say sh*t and get laughed at and then data comes out to support me.

This is the only thing that he's not struggling with.  3 steps drops, 1 read, get the ball out.  He's literally struggling with every other aspect of QB'ing the Football, especially if the drop back requires more than 3 steps.  He's basically atrocious.  

The play action stuff?  Hard to run when you have no threat of running the ball but I have noticed, his drop backs on play action seem way longer and deeper than any other NFL QB's I've watched this year.  He tends to fade with all his drop backs (other than 3 steps) so I'm not sure if it's him or design but it's very blatant when they do use play action.  He's further away from the LOS than what seems normal. 

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Just now, Jet Nut said:

Then you dont understand how play action works.  You can be great at hiding the ball going through the motion of play action like Chad was and Peyton was but without a running game it doesn't work. It totally relies on a team reacting to an effective running game.  Something this team isnt close to showing at this point, no one is scared of our run attack 

Blaming it on Zach kind of shows you dont understand how it works

Lol. Never blamed him entirely, anyways, I guess you don't agree with his struggles, good for you.

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6 minutes ago, derp said:

Good article, thanks for posting. The passing rate on first down in the first quarter versus later in the game probably correlates with the early game struggles and playing better in the second half. And the success on quick throws matches what things look like and is mildly encouraging.

Get him quick throws on first down early in the game to build momentum. Seems obvious  and the stats appear to back that up. Hopefully an adjustment they can make after the bye.

The 1st half vs. 2nd half stuff is all about him playing soft defense who have a lead and he is therefore, padding his stats.

Take for example the Falcons games.  That last drive, he went 6-9 for 60 yards when literally Atlanta wasnt even trying to defend, take that away and he was 12-19 for 130 yards.  Same thing can be done with Carolina and New England.

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2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

The 1st half vs. 2nd half stuff is all about him playing soft defense who have a lead and he is therefore, padding his stats.

Take for example the Falcons games.  That last drive, he went 6-9 for 60 yards when literally Atlanta wasnt even trying to defend, take that away and he was 12-19 for 130 yards.  Same thing can be done with Carolina and New England.

So I agree that’s absolutely a large factor but I also think - to oversimplify - not going run-run-pass in the first half would help. First down throws are good. I don’t think it magically fixes everything, but I still think it’s better play calling in general and especially for a rookie QB. Get him some easy throws on downs that it’s easier to pass.

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4 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I love when I say sh*t and get laughed at and then data comes out to support me.

This is the only thing that he's not struggling with.  3 steps drops, 1 read, get the ball out.  He's literally struggling with every other aspect of QB'ing the Football, especially if the drop back requires more than 3 steps.  He's basically atrocious.  

The play action stuff?  Hard to run when you have no threat of running the ball but I have noticed, his drop backs on play action seem way longer and deeper than any other NFL QB's I've watched this year.  He tends to fade with all his drop backs (other than 3 steps) so I'm not sure if it's him or design but it's very blatant when they do use play action.  He's further away from the LOS than what seems normal. 

I don't know the breakdown, but if feels like he holds onto the ball forever off play action.

He was a risky draft pick, plain and simple. But he's here and the Jets are going to roll with him for at least 3 seasons in all likelihood so they better be working on his mechanics, timing, and decision-making relentlessly. He seems to have a strong work ethic and is coachable, so if they're not getting through to him, I blame the coaching staff, honestly.

In regards to the original article, I'd be shocked if the Jets ran less play action. That is basically the offensive system. They're not just going to abandon that and nothing about their press conferences indicate they are even thinking about it.

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While I agree with many of the points made here, the concept about the quick passing game is very far from being solely on the coaches shoulders.  There have been tons of quick underneath options on plays that Wilson simply refused to look at, as he preferred to try to find the big play down the field.  It's kind of just the player that he is, so I'm not sure that's something to be particularly upset about, but there's very little others can do about that short of trying to force him to change how he plays the game.  That's the one part far more in his control than in others, unless the team goes to the extreme of having absolutely no deep options available for him to even consider, which would not go over particularly well either.

In the meantime however, there are a number of those other areas that the team can look to help him out, and they should do whatever they can.  It still doesn't make him some innocent victim in all of this though.

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11 minutes ago, derp said:

So I agree that’s absolutely a large factor but I also think - to oversimplify - not going run-run-pass in the first half would help. First down throws are good. I don’t think it magically fixes everything, but I still think it’s better play calling in general and especially for a rookie QB. Get him some easy throws on downs that it’s easier to pass.

Fwiw, I think this is a huge common misconception, I see Maxman and other saying the same thing.  Make it easy, get him short throws, etc.  Well, that's what they are trying to do to get him going to start the game.  He's just, bad.  Flat out. 

To start the Falcons game they went; Carter for 5 yards, next 2 plays?  Short easy passes that Zach didnt make on 2nd for some reason and tucked it and ran and then or the on 3rd down, Crowder dropped a short pass to the sidelines.

Next drive, 1st down, Zach Wilson passes short for an incompletion, 2nd down run for loss, 3rd down was a short pass to Ty Johnson short of the line to gain.

Next drive, 1st down, Zach Wilson pass short for an incompletion, following play he stares down Cory Davis, screams at the top his lungs he's throwing to him and he gets picked.  

Following drive, great return and then they commit to the run and pick up their first, 1st down of the game, Wilson attempts 1 pass but they score a TD.

Following drive, 2 short passes to open the drive.  They loss yardage and then commit a penalty on 3rd down.

They're trying to get him going, he's just, terrible.  It sucks but it is what is right now.  We just have to hope he figures it out because I really dont think they can coddle him more than they already are.

 

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26 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

The 1st half vs. 2nd half stuff is all about him playing soft defense who have a lead and he is therefore, padding his stats.

Take for example the Falcons games.  That last drive, he went 6-9 for 60 yards when literally Atlanta wasnt even trying to defend, take that away and he was 12-19 for 130 yards.  Same thing can be done with Carolina and New England.

Why are other QBs not benefiting from this? Look at TLs splits 

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8 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

I don't know the breakdown, but if feels like he holds onto the ball forever off play action.

He was a risky draft pick, plain and simple. But he's here and the Jets are going to roll with him for at least 3 seasons in all likelihood so they better be working on his mechanics, timing, and decision-making relentlessly. He seems to have a strong work ethic and is coachable, so if they're not getting through to him, I blame the coaching staff, honestly.

In regards to the original article, I'd be shocked if the Jets ran less play action. That is basically the offensive system. They're not just going to abandon that and nothing about their press conferences indicate they are even thinking about it.

Holds the ball too long and drops too far...it's all the same thing and it's a huge issue with the offense working correctly.  If the drop requires 5 steps and you take 7-9, you're already holding the ball too long and the entire timing of the play, is off.  It's crazy to me this isnt more of a talking point.

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53 minutes ago, jgb said:

Thread title only needed to be the first 3 words 

Figured I wasn’t the only one who opens this thread thinking,” what the hell doesn’t he struggle with?” 

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Every young QB benefits from a productive running game, so I'm not buying the play action criticism.
If anything, Wilson's play action numbers probably stink because we've run the ball so poorly
therefore the defense doesn't have to respect that part of our offense.  Easy "pitch & catch" play
action windows are now closed because the LB's don't bite on our fakes

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6 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Sorry, not following you here...

Sorry meant not benefiting. Look at TLs first and second half splits, he’s playing from behind too. 
 

look at Darnolds splits last year playing in blowouts every week. He was worse in the second half 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/3912547/type/nfl/year/2020

we haven’t been in true garbage time this year, and I general the garbage time thing doesn’t hold water 

there is more to this, how about the fact that Wilson had one passing attempt in the first quarter last week (a drop)

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22 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Holds the ball too long and drops too far...it's all the same thing and it's a huge issue with the offense working correctly.  If the drop requires 5 steps and you take 7-9, you're already holding the ball too long and the entire timing of the play, is off.  It's crazy to me this isnt more of a talking point.

The most mind blowing  thing is this is exactly what these scouts and coaches saw on tape at BYU and don’t seem like they are addressing it. Obviously it worked at BYU do to the talent disparity but damn! They had to know it wasn’t going to translate to the NFL.
 

Unless they thought Corey Davis was going to be Megatron, Cole was going to be Randy Moss, Carter was going to be LT, a random awful TE was morphing into Gronkowski and the O line was turning into Denver back in the day because of the offense and zone blocking scheme? Just weird. 

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1 minute ago, Pichula said:

Sorry meant not benefiting. Look at TLs first and second half splits, he’s playing from behind too. 
 

look at Darnolds splits last year playing in blowouts every week. He was worse in the second half 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/3912547/type/nfl/year/2020

we haven’t been in true garbage time this year, and I general the garbage time thing doesn’t hold water 

there is more to this, how about the fact that Wilson had one passing attempt in the first quarter last week (a drop)

None of this is accurate regarding ZW and TL. 

The Jags had the lead vs. both the Cardinals and the Bengals going into the 2nd half (the Bengals into the 4th) and the Broncos game they were only down 3 at the half.  They've been in more games than the Jets. 

The Jets havent been in a single game this year, other than the Titans.  They've had garbage time being down at least 2 scores in the 4th quarter in 4 out of 5 games.  Vs. the Falcons, they called passing plays on 4 of their first 6 plays....all in the 1st quarter.  

 

 

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8 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

The most kind blowing  thing is this is exactly what these scouts and coaches saw on tape at BYU and don’t seem like they are addressing it. Obviously it worked at BYU do to the talent disparity but damn! They had to know it wasn’t going to translate to the NFL.
 

Unless they thought Corey Davis was going to be Megatron, Cole was going to be Randy Moss, Carter was going to be LT, a random awful TE was morphing into Gronkowski and the O line was turning into Denver back in the day because of the offense and zone blocking scheme? Just weird. 

I'm just hoping they take the buy week to address this stuff.  They can call the best plays in the world at the perfect time but it doesnt matter if the play is off schedule the second the Center snaps it to the QB.  Honestly, it should be the only thing they work on in this next 2 weeks because nothing else matters. 

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4 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

None of this is accurate regarding ZW and TL. 

The Jags had the lead vs. both the Cardinals and the Bengals going into the 2nd half (the Bengals into the 4th) and the Broncos game they were only down 3 at the half.  They've been in more games than the Jets. 

The Jets havent been in a single game this year, other than the Titans.  They've had garbage time being down at least 2 scores in the 4th quarter in 4 out of 5 games.  Vs. the Falcons, they called passing plays on 4 of their first 6 plays....all in the 1st quarter.  

 

 

ZW had one pass attempt until like 30 seconds left in the first

How is the half time score relevant? I thought we were talking about 4th Q garbage time? 

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1 hour ago, Nixhead said:

One major problem is that the Jets don't create any mismatches - that I can see anyway. I guess that might be because they don't have any. You need Mims on the field maybe even in the slot to create an advantage. Our tight ends are so bad that the defense has a mismatch against our offense. This offense is pretty much a disaster and I blame LaFluer - should never have a rookie OC teamed with a rookie QB - not a recipe for success.

It wasn't the recipe. No one could have predicted the tragic death of Greg Knapp. He was supposed to be the veteran coach on the offense. I think this team would have looked a lot different had Knapp not been killed.

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2 minutes ago, Pichula said:

ZW had one pass attempt until like 30 seconds left in the first

How is the half time score relevant? I thought we were talking about 4th Q garbage time? 

You brought up 2nd half splits...Idk, figured you were talking about the 2nd half.

The Jets rans 6 plays in the 1st quarter, 4 of those plays were passes.  Zach just ran it on the 1st pass call instead of throwing it to wide open Carter.  

1 8:51 4 11 NYJ 13 Younghoe Koo 31 yard field goal good 0 3 2.570 3.000
1 8:46     ATL 35 Younghoe Koo kicks off 65 yards, touchback. 0 3 0.000 0.610
1 8:46 1 10 NYJ 25 Michael Carter left guard for 5 yards (tackle by Jonathan Bullard) 0 3 0.610 0.740
1 8:08 2 5 NYJ 30 Zach Wilson scrambles right end for 3 yards (tackle by AJ Terrell) 0 3 0.740 0.430
1 7:18 3 2 NYJ 33 Zach Wilson pass incomplete short left intended for Jamison Crowder (defended by Richie Grant) Penalty on NYJ: Illegal Shift, 5 yards (declined) 0 3 0.430 -1.180
1 7:10 4 2 NYJ 33 Thomas Morstead punts 59 yards 0 3 -1.180 0.380
1 6:58 1 10 ATL 8 Mike Davis right tackle for 3 yards (tackle by Jamien Sherwood). Penalty on Nathan Shepherd: Defensive Holding, 5 yards (accepted) 0 3 -0.380 -0.140
1 6:29 1 10 ATL 16 Matt Ryan pass incomplete short right intended for Mike Davis 0 3 -0.140 -0.660
1 6:25 2 10 ATL 16 Cordarrelle Patterson right tackle for 9 yards (tackle by Tim Ward) 0 3 -0.660 -0.200
1 5:58 3 1 ATL 25 Matt Ryan pass complete short left to Tajae Sharpe for 14 yards (tackle by Brandin Echols) 0 3 -0.200 1.530
1 5:14 1 10 ATL 39 Cordarrelle Patterson left tackle for no gain (tackle by Quinnen Williams and Bryce Huff) 0 3 1.530 0.990
1 4:33 2 10 ATL 39 Matt Ryan pass complete short right to Kyle Pitts for 18 yards (tackle by Ashtyn Davis) 0 3 0.990 2.720
1 3:55 1 10 NYJ 43 Cordarrelle Patterson left guard for 3 yards (tackle by Quincy Williams) 0 3 2.720 2.580
1 3:15 2 7 NYJ 40 Matt Ryan pass complete short right to Lee Smith for 22 yards (tackle by Ashtyn Davis) 0 3 2.580 4.370
1 2:31 1 10 NYJ 18 Matt Ryan pass complete short middle to Cordarrelle Patterson for 16 yards (tackle by Bryce Hall) 0 3 4.370 6.740
1 1:47 1 2 NYJ 2 Matt Ryan pass complete short middle to Kyle Pitts for 2 yards, touchdown 0 9 6.740 7.000
1 1:42     NYJ 15 Younghoe Koo kicks extra point good 0 10 0.000 0.000
1 1:42     ATL 35 Younghoe Koo kicks off 64 yards, returned by Tevin Coleman for 27 yards (tackle by Younghoe Koo) 0 10 0.000 0.810
1 1:35 1 10 NYJ 28 Zach Wilson pass incomplete short middle intended for Corey Davis (defended by Fabian Moreau) 0 10 0.810 0.260
1 1:29 2 10 NYJ 28 Michael Carter right tackle for -3 yards (tackle by Tyeler Davison) 0 10 0.260 -0.820
1 0:51 3 13 NYJ 25 Zach Wilson pass complete short left to Ty Johnson for 11 yards (tackle by Duron Harmon and Deion Jones) 0 10 -0.820 -0.980
1 0:09 4 2 NYJ 36 Thomas Morstead punts 56 yards, returned by Olamide Zaccheaus for 15 yards (tackle by Trevon Wesco) 0 10 -0.980 -0.480
Quarter Time Down ToGo Location Detail NYJ ATL EPB EPA
2nd Quarter
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42 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I'm just hoping they take the buy week to address this stuff.  They can call the best plays in the world at the perfect time but it doesnt matter if the play is off schedule the second the Center snaps it to the QB.  Honestly, it should be the only thing they work on in this next 2 weeks because nothing else matters. 

I remember after preseason I said,” kid can handle the speed of the game!” Damn I was wrong, but it’s ok because I’m a fat guy typing on his phone and I don’t do it for a living. 

I know he was in shorts at home but all his throws were dead on at his pro day and I don’t mean just that silly thanksgiving day pick up toss 50 yards down field one. His short stuff and intermediate stuff seemed spot on. 

It started to go in camp and we got the,” he’s trying to see what he could get away with line!” Well? How’s that working for you?

I am 100% convinced the short stuff and intermediate stuff was there at one time. So what happen? I’m guessing it’s the speed of the game along with lack of support (RIP Knapp), system being installed crappy and Zach just simply not being ready for the game. No shame in that except the coaching staff never seem to think it’s possible he wouldn’t be ready. Now that’s scary .

Even worse? These are the same guys that are supposedly going to fix this? Wow, I honestly think it’s possible to fix but got to be straight  I don’t think the staff is capable of it. Nothing they’ve showed from their judgement to the execution suggest that. 
 

Well will be looking for a new QB in two to three years. Very possibly HC, GM and rest of coaching staff as well. It’s hard to fathom why anybody, like at all, would think this would work without at least a soft plan B.. mind blowing.

Let’s  get a guy that’s never been a head coach, a OC that never did the job, draft a raw rookie from a small school combine them with the worst roster in the NFL and let them have at it with no back up  plan.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Holds the ball too long and drops too far...it's all the same thing and it's a huge issue with the offense working correctly.  If the drop requires 5 steps and you take 7-9, you're already holding the ball too long and the entire timing of the play, is off.  It's crazy to me this isnt more of a talking point.

Not only that, but as he drifts back he drfits right into the pass rush.  Last night, we saw numerous examples of Lamar Jackson stepping up into the pocket to avoid the rush that was being blocked behind him.  Zack does not step up. he drifts back to the rush.

The woe is Zach, the OL is awful excuse just does not hold water this year -- last two games, protection was good, he had plenty of clean pockets.  And missed plenty of throws.  We lost to Atlanta, imo, because Ryan was way better than Zach.  No shame in that as Ryan is an above average 10+ year vet and Zach has 5 games experience.  But he needs to be better -- much better over the next 12. 

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2 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Let’s  get a guy that’s never been a head coach, a OC that never did the job, draft a raw rookie from a small school combine them with the worst roster in the NFL and let them have at it with no back up  plan.

 

 

A while back, I wrote nearly the exact words.   These moves are about as quintessentially Jets as even Jehovah could imagine.  

After Zack's "illustrious" preseason performance, I asked folks here to pump the brakes as he had not faced a live fire, regular season, defense.  It was almost like I shot a puppy.    The problem with our fanbase is that we have been mired in anguish/disappointment for so long that any glimmer of hope results in screams on finding our savior or going to the Super Bowl.

After five games, Wilson looks lost and will continue to look worse as DCs review our game videos.   Even more lost is our OC who never should have been put in charge of the offense and Wilson's development.

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