Darnold regressing, throws INT on first play (Frankie Luvu blocks punt, Herndon catches TD. Oh my this MIN-CAR Game!)

[jamesr]

4 minutes ago, doitny said:

30 other teams dont have the 2nd best RB in the NFL or a Henry. 

if he cant win without CMC then he really is garbage. and Chubba hasn't been bad at all. 100 yds last week 61 yesterday. 

 

Hubbard is a good RB but not that much of a receiver (13 for 82 this year, CMC had 9 for 89 in the one game against us).

But as you say, if a QB can't succeed without a top notch dual-threat RB every game ... is he really a guy you want to roll with?

[Cyberjet]

It all comes down to system and coaching. Look at Vinny Testaverde - was a joke of the league until he met Bellicheck and Parcels. Imagine if he  started with them

[thebuzzardman]

16 hours ago, Pac said:

No..  i said you guys circle jerking about Darnold sucking when we have the worst qb in the league is bizarre.  Especially since he played fine from the hour I watched.

But you do you.

It's possible for things to suck and blow at the same time. Like Sam and Zach, for instance. 

[thebuzzardman]

14 hours ago, DoubleDecker said:

What if after trading Jamal Adams and Sam Darnold the Jets have 4 picks within the first 42 picks....

 

Until you realize JD will f*ck up all the picks. Other than that, great news!

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Cyberjet said:

It all comes down to system and coaching. Look at Vinny Testaverde - was a joke of the league until he met Bellicheck and Parcels. Imagine if he  started with them

Sam defenders love to cite Tannehill and Drew Brees. The comparison they should be making/hoping for is Vinny T.

"I submit that Testaverde didn't discover some fountain of youth or manage to delay the aging process. He was just really good. And when you are really good at age 30-35, you can afford to lose a little and still be able to play in the NFL to age 40. I can't help but wonder what would have happened if Testaverde had managed to end up with an offense that had a few more good players when he was entering his late 20's. My guess is that he would be practicing his Canton speech."

Full article below, it's pretty facinating:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/index3a5c.html?p=5449

[doitny]

1 hour ago, jamesr said:

 

But as you say, if a QB can't succeed without a top notch dual-threat RB every game ... is he really a guy you want to roll with?

not sure if your being sarcastic with this so i apologize if im wrong but....

what if CMC is out the whole year? thats it. your season is over? your QB cant win without the " best of the best" RB in the league? 

then he is not someone you want to roll with

[jamesr]

6 minutes ago, doitny said:

not sure if your being sarcastic with this so i apologize if im wrong but....

what if CMC is out the whole year? thats it. your season is over? your QB cant win without the " best of the best" RB in the league? 

then he is not someone you want to roll with

No sarcasm intended. It was meant to say - if your QB can only succeed because he has one of the top dual threats (who is also injury prone) ... is that a guy you roll with?

To me you want a QB that gives you a chance to win every game - whatever the injury status around him, whatever the opponent is doing, he will lead your team and give you a good chance to win. So many QBs can keep you in it but can't be the guy to win it. Most teams have those. The few elite teams have guys who make the win happen, not ones who just don't lose the game for you.

[DoubleDecker]

2 hours ago, thebuzzardman said:

Until you realize JD will f*ck up all the picks. Other than that, great news!

Got to play to win the lottery!  The draft is a crapshoot in general, but it certainly pays to scout well don't get me wrong. So is it better to have less draft picks because JD drafts bad??

[jgb]

Not sure why FA gets such a bad wrap. You need both draft and FA. They are supplementary. The reigning champs were the most active in free agency of any team I've seen since Dan Synder's early years. 

If you scout well (rooks and vets) both methods are useful.

[slimjasi]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

Not sure why FA gets such a bad wrap. You need both draft and FA. They are supplementary. The reigning champs were the most active in free agency of any team I've seen since Dan Synder's early years. 

If you scout well (rooks and vets) both methods are useful.

True, but before the Bucs, how many teams won the FA crown the year before? They feel like an anomaly. 

But you are right that championship teams need to do both well. I think the core of most championship teams is usually built through the draft and then supplemented with key FA signings. 

[jamesr]

11 minutes ago, jgb said:

Not sure why FA gets such a bad wrap. You need both draft and FA. They are supplementary. The reigning champs were the most active in free agency of any team I've seen since Dan Synder's early years. 

If you scout well (rooks and vets) both methods are useful.

FA and draft have to work hand in hand ... you probably can't build a consistent winning team without both, but getting the balance right is a tricky job.

Too many draft picks and you likely end up with a team that can't quite go from good to great. Too many FAs and you likely end up with a very short window of opportunity.

[Cyberjet]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

Sam defenders love to cite Tannehill and Drew Brees. The comparison they should be making/hoping for is Vinny T.

"I submit that Testaverde didn't discover some fountain of youth or manage to delay the aging process. He was just really good. And when you are really good at age 30-35, you can afford to lose a little and still be able to play in the NFL to age 40. I can't help but wonder what would have happened if Testaverde had managed to end up with an offense that had a few more good players when he was entering his late 20's. My guess is that he would be practicing his Canton speech."

Full article below, it's pretty facinating:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/index3a5c.html?p=5449

Thanks - great eval. Probably true of Archie Manning also. If Brady played with Testaverdes TB players and coaches - wouldn’t be good. 
 

Mac Jones is in a good place and will reach his potential 

I really feel Zach Wilson is also in a good place just not ready as the Patriot system. After next year we will know 

[tfine]

Jones is Chad Pennington II with a better arm. Perfect for the Patriots. Doesn’t have much more of a ceiling but  will become more skillful in that system. 

Pennington was the best QB we’ve had since Namath. He got run outta town because of the “weak arm” narrative and the Jets never put pieces around him.




Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[JoJoTownsell1]

Just now, tfine said:

 

Pennington was the best QB we’ve had since Namath. He got run outta town because of the “weak arm” narrative and the Jets never put pieces around him.




Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

The weak arm thing wasn't a narrative. He had a relatively weak arm coming out of college and then injuries to his shoulder made it impossible for him to really succeed. It's why he only started 20 games (with only 20 TD passes) the rest of his post-Jets career.

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, jamesr said:

Hubbard is a good RB but not that much of a receiver (13 for 82 this year, CMC had 9 for 89 in the one game against us).

But as you say, if a QB can't succeed without a top notch dual-threat RB every game ... is he really a guy you want to roll with?

Exactly.  RBs get hurt.  You don't hear people making excuses for Kirk Cousins when Dalvin Cook is out.  

[slimjasi]

21 minutes ago, tfine said:

 

Pennington was the best QB we’ve had since Namath. He got run outta town because of the “weak arm” narrative and the Jets never put pieces around him.




Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

Jets never put pieces around him? Not sure about that one. 

The team had pretty good weapons from 2002-2004. Chad's issue was that his body was unreliable. He got hurt in 2 of those 3 years. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Not sure why FA gets such a bad wrap. You need both draft and FA. They are supplementary. The reigning champs were the most active in free agency of any team I've seen since Dan Synder's early years. 

If you scout well (rooks and vets) both methods are useful.

The key thing is you can't build your roster around a FA class.  FA's have a high tendency to be mercenaries, and who their teams let go for a reason.  You have to pick your spots wisely with FA's lest you sign a bunch of dogs who stop caring once they get paid.

You need a core of homegrown talent that you supplement with free agency.  Otherwise, the best you can hope for is one decent fun season (like the 2015 Jets) followed by disaster shortly thereafter.

Obviously, the caveat to that rule is if your drafts suck you have to spend a bit more in free agency to try to make up for that (especially if you recently drafted a QB in the 1st round and can't afford to be tanking).

[jgb]

3 hours ago, jamesr said:

FA and draft have to work hand in hand ... you probably can't build a consistent winning team without both, but getting the balance right is a tricky job.

Too many draft picks and you likely end up with a team that can't quite go from good to great. Too many FAs and you likely end up with a very short window of opportunity.

You are right but a short window is better than a buried coffin

[jgb]

3 hours ago, slimjasi said:

True, but before the Bucs, how many teams won the FA crown the year before? They feel like an anomaly. 

But you are right that championship teams need to do both well. I think the core of most championship teams is usually built through the draft and then supplemented with key FA signings. 

I think the key here is balance. Some fans just seem to have an allergy to paying anyone.

[jetstream23]

23 hours ago, kdels62 said:

That 40 yard throw was great. It was into a small window in double coverage and he’ll never do it again. He had an easy completion open just beyond the sticks. A nice throw to make you forget that he sucked for 3 hours. 

That's where the similarities to Jamal Adams are amazing.  Jamal will dance for 30 seconds after getting a sack when Seattle rushes 8 guys against 5 blockers during a game his team is trailing by two touchdowns.  He makes you forget for a moment that he has been torched for 107 yards and 2 TDs by the opponent's backup TE.

 

[jetstream23]

22 hours ago, jamesr said:

Giants, Falcons and Patriots the next three weeks ... looks like Carolina caught a bit of a break there.  

Darnold vs. Belichick again could be a "Get me a second bucket of popcorn" kinda game.

[jetstream23]

6 hours ago, Cyberjet said:

Jones is Chad Pennington II with a better arm. Perfect for the Patriots. Doesn’t have much more of a ceiling but  will become more skillful in that system. 

 

6 hours ago, Biggs said:

Chad Pennington before he destroyed his shoulder was a terrific QB.  If he's Chad Pennington with a slightly better arm pre-shoulder surgery the Pats have a home run.

 

6 hours ago, Cyberjet said:

I think the Pats do have a home run. The guy is smart, learning the system and goes through his progressions on the field. Wilson articulates the defenses and is bright but now needs to translate it to the field. If he can it’s gold.

Mac Jones becoming a consistent B to B+ QB in this league will be maddening.  But let's give a lot of credit to the coaching staff there and McDaniels.  They have the perfect system for him and they ignore all the "dink and dunk" comments from the peanut gallery, perfectly happy to develop their QB slowly and not burden him with trying to carry the team.  He's short/intermediate thrower with a high completion % and not a lot of INTs.... it's exactly what you want in Year 1 with your rookie QB.  The Jets on the other hand have had 3 or 4 highlight throws and 50+ yard TD that isn't offsetting 8 yard passes thrown in the dirt and too many INTs.  Let's see what happens but the Jets thinking going forward is that they just need to have Zack "start ripping it."

[jamesr]

4 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

 Let's see what happens but the Jets thinking going forward is that they just need to have Zack "start ripping it."

This is a complete misquote / misread of what was said. 

Zach said he's thinking too much about each play instead of just throwing the ball instinctively like he did in college. He said he needs to stop overthinking and just "let it rip".

It was positioned here as if it was some green light from the coaching staff to start launching bombs on every play with wild abandon. The quote came only from Zach and doesn't mean what people think it means.

  

[Warfish]

6 hours ago, thebuzzardman said:

It's possible for things to suck and blow at the same time.

[Warfish]

37 minutes ago, jgb said:

I think the key here is balance. Some fans just seem to have an allergy to paying anyone.

Who should we have paid the past, say, five years, that we did not?

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Who should we have paid the past, say, five years, that we did not?

Oh I don't know let's start with two random dudes I've only posted about a million times before they went elsewhere. Tannehill and Trubisky. Ridiculous to have Falk and Mike White as QB2s when these two guys were available on the cheap.

[jetstream23]

6 minutes ago, jamesr said:

This is a complete misquote / misread of what was said. 

Zach said he's thinking too much about each play instead of just throwing the ball instinctively like he did in college. He said he needs to stop overthinking and just "let it rip".

It was positioned here as if it was some green light from the coaching staff to start launching bombs on every play with wild abandon. The quote came only from Zach and doesn't mean what people think it means.

  

Fair point.  Overthinking can definitely be a problem.  Let's just hope the pendulum doesn't swing too far in the other direction.  Taking too much care and "aiming the football" can quickly turn into Ready, Fire, Aim and carelessness.  The Jets need to get this right.... my bigger concern isn't with Zach but with a coaching staff that might not be quite capable enough to develop him and that may have been more hurt by the loss of Gregg Knapp than we realize.

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

Oh I don't know let's start with two random dudes I've only posted about a million times before they went elsewhere. Tannehill and Trubisky. Ridiculous to have Falk and Mike White as QB2s when these two guys were available on the cheap.

Oh, I thought you meant our OWN players.

Yes, you have mentioned Trubisky on a number of occasions.  Not sure the point really, given Wilson was always going to play day 1 and play the whole season barring injury, and Trubisky is no mentor, but maybe you see it differently, some alternate world where JD and Saleh play Trubs ahead of Wilson.  At least Trubs is young with some potential upside, most folks here when they want a backup QB prefer the McClown route, which I will never understand, admittedly.

 

[BP]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

That's where the similarities to Jamal Adams are amazing.  Jamal will dance for 30 seconds after getting a sack when Seattle rushes 8 guys against 5 blockers during a game his team is trailing by two touchdowns.  He makes you forget for a moment that he has been torched for 107 yards and 2 TDs by the opponent's backup TE.

 

thanks for making me literally laugh out loud

Are there any of those players left from the asinine fashion show revealing the horrible new uniforms? Or have they all moved on?

[Jetsfan80]

13 minutes ago, BP said:

thanks for making me literally laugh out loud

Are there any of those players left from the asinine fashion show revealing the horrible new uniforms? Or have they all moved on?

Every one of them is gone to other teams, with the exception of Enunwa who is a free agent.

[BP]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Every one of them is gone to other teams, with the exception of Enunwa who is a free agent.

I knew I could count on you, little buddy.

[Action Zachtion]

4 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

 

Edit - skimmed and missed @jamesr already made the same point.  

[jgb]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Oh, I thought you meant our OWN players.

Yes, you have mentioned Trubisky on a number of occasions.  Not sure the point really, given Wilson was always going to play day 1 and play the whole season barring injury, and Trubisky is no mentor, but maybe you see it differently, some alternate world where JD and Saleh play Trubs ahead of Wilson.  At least Trubs is young with some potential upside, most folks here when they want a backup QB prefer the McClown route, which I will never understand, admittedly.

 

Ah sorry no didn’t mean our own guys.

I want a credible QB2 not as a mentor but as someone who can play competent football should starter go down to allow growth and eval of the rest of the offense AND as insurance in case our high draft QB (gasp) busts. Where Jets are — and have been for years — I prefer a youngish guy with potential upside over a twighlighting “steady hand” JAG. Those make sense for contending teams who want a guy to steal a win if FQB misses a couple weeks.

No reason to burn a roster spot and cap space on a mentor. Bring in a retired QB as QB coach or Chief Diaper Changer, whatever title you want to give.

 

[Jetsfan80]

On 10/17/2021 at 6:58 PM, Peace Frog said:

That one pathetic Sam hater just can’t let it go. I’d hazzard 30% of his posts somehow involve Darnold. 

I can’t imagine being that obsessed with so much hate over someone who is gone. 

So weird how sad you have to be to spend that much time dumping on an ex-Jet. 

Personally I’m content to keep rooting for Zach to be great. 

Listen here coward.  You were the one that called me out in the Darnold thread back in Week 2 or 3 when he was playing reasonably well.  Now here you are weeks later still b*tching about me while refusing to actually tag me in posts.  How about take your own advice on this one?  

We own Carolina's 2nd & 4th round picks, and I'm happy to see that Darnold is nowhere close to the QB some here thought he secretly was.  The Jets made the right decision to trade Darnold, and the Darnold bros have finally been silenced.  It's more about the remaining Darnold supporters than it is Darnold himself.  Sometimes, it's fun to be right.  

Kindly GFY.  

[Peace Frog]

Obssesive compulsion is a disease.  Will eat you up.  Bad for your health.