Defending Joe Douglas; And It's Year 2 Not Year 3

[Biggs]

Whenever a GM or HC is defended or gets a vote of confidence it's the sign of a dead man walking. 

I have no opinion on JD as far as defending him or throwing him off the bridge.  The Jets sucked last year and this year.  JD is the head guy.  It doesn't take a lot to tear down a crappy team and sell assetts for draft picks.  Building through the draft requires your team to stink and have a draft plan that is on a competitive basis better than the other NFL teams.   Pretty much a crap shoot.  It sounds good but it's still mostly luck not a plan. 

You can project that he knows what he's doing but it's pure speculation.   The NFL doesn't require winning to be successful.  It's a small club with lots of inbreeding.  It's not exactly the best and the brightest.   It's mostly a sell job to the fan base and the talking heads, most of who come from the  same inbred gene pool.

Saleh looks like a nice guy but lets be honest, is he an offensive or defensive genius?  No he's a high energy rah, rah guy who did well with a staked D in SF.   Hiring his BFF as OC to coach a rookie QB doesn't come off as next level thinking even if Lefleur can become potty trained in a few more months.  

It all might work out because lets face it the NFL isn't loaded with brilliant football minds.  It's loaded with former players who have been mostly loyal to owners and former coaches who are part of the club.   

The most brilliant thing JD has done is trade Jamal.  He had nothing to do with Russell Wilson getting hurt and making that pick potentially a game changer.  It was pure luck like his first two drafts and his FA signings.

[Rhg1084]

Mcgovern was another nice signing by Douglas 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

37 minutes ago, jgb said:

As is your right. Another one I want on my jury if I'm ever on trial for murder and the prosecutor has a signed confession, DNA, video of me doing the crime, and a bus full of nuns as eye witnesses.

It's also your right to be wrong, as you are in this case. The evidence is overwhelmingly in my favor.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

5 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

Mcgovern was another nice signing by Douglas 

Van Roten is the weak link, at the moment. Hopefully, he adjusts to the new blocking scheme.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

16 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Saleh looks like a nice guy but lets be honest, is he an offensive or defensive genius?  No he's a high energy rah, rah guy who did well with a staked D in SF.  

You came to this conclusion after 5 games with the youngest roster in the NFL?

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

It's also your right to be wrong, as you are in this case. The evidence is overwhelmingly in my favor.

Lol it's ok I'm used to being in this position and -- unfortunately -- also used to being right.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Lol it's ok I'm used to being in this position and -- unfortunately -- also used to being right.

I'm also used to being right, so I guess this puts us at a stalemate. 

[Biggs]

8 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

You came to this conclusion after 5 games with the youngest roster in the NFL?

You came to the conclussion that he was great before he even got here.  You're so bought in you don't need any evidence.  You're a wet dream to the Sheild.  

Why do we have to have the "youngest" roster in the NFL with a completely untested rookie HC and OC?  If I wasn't such a blind homer and it was hapening with a company I was involved with it would be obvious.

[kevinc855]

45 minutes ago, Warfish said:

They're not going to do so.  Not in 2021.  Probably not in 2022 either.

You are prob correct in your assessment on 21. If the Jets stink again in 22 we will see. That would mark 4 straight losing seasons under his tenure. 

[JustInFudge]

13 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Douglas is has not been great, but he is playing the long game, and this is what it looks like.  If the QB pans out we are okay.  If he doesn't the carousel continues.  I expect the D and O line to be improve as the season goes,  I expected us to win 4-6 games.  I still do.  If they don't do that, I will certainly be questioning the front office. 

The long and short of it is fans are irrational boobs who have bit, hook line and sinker into the week to week hysterical analysis.  We have 2 nincompoops clamoring for the days of Adam Gase and you have Lil Kevy Kev who has the emotional intelligence of a 13 year old girl and unfortunately for us, they love to litter the board with their nonsense.  So some of this is also just the loud mouths in the room dominating the conversation.  The extreme get the attention these days.  The middle road, level headed people are ignored.  HOT TAKES SELL!!!

The narrative before the season was; we finally have the right structure, we finally let our GM pick our HC, we fired the worst coach in the NFL, we finally have someone who is forward thinking, we surrounded Zach with talent, we finally have GM who has invested in offense, we know we're going to suck and that's ok because we're finally building the right way.  Fast forward to week 5 and everything is going exactly as predicted and now it's fire everyone time.  

Silly poop heads.

 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

9 minutes ago, Biggs said:

You came to the conclussion that he was great before he even got here.

I was happy he was hired. Don't tell me what my conclusion was about Saleh.

 

10 minutes ago, Biggs said:

You're so bought in you don't need any evidence.  You're a wet dream to the Sheild.  

I am? If you convinced yourself of that, I guess there is no need to try to change your mind.

12 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Why do we have to have the "youngest" roster in the NFL with a completely untested rookie HC and OC?

We have the youngest roster because the combined ages of the players average out to less than that of other teams. We have an untested rookie head coach and OC because we don't have a completely tested veteran HC and OC.

 

13 minutes ago, Biggs said:

 If I wasn't such a blind homer and it was hapening with a company I was involved with it would be obvious.

Can you please take about 10 seconds to proofread your posts before hitting send in a triggered rage? After you do that, please answer the question that you completely avoided. 

[Snell41]

Joe Douglas good moves off the top of my head:

Jamal Adam’s trade
Leonard Williams trade
Morgan Moses
signing Franklin-Myers off waivers
2nd rounder for Darnold (good compensation though I didn’t like trading him away, I felt we should have had him start this year as a lame duck QB and let him take the beatings while the team grows)
Signing Corey Davis
Signing Keelan Cole
Braden Mann
Carl Lawson (maybe)
Not overreacting to pressure to sign Maye long term

Joe Douglas bad moves:
Ryan Khalil
James Morgan
GVR
Drafting Zach Wilson (my personal opinion)
Denzel Mims
Robbie Anderson
Perriman
Becton(a lot of talent was passed up on in hopes a huge guy with weight issues can stay in shape and healthy, and thus far he cant)
E Moore (premature I know, but so much hype for a guy that’s completely invisible)
No serviceable backup for Wilson
Desir


I realize my list is slanted in that I do not like Wilson at all, and ultimately that move will make or break Douglas. But there’s a bit of balance in his good and bad moves. He’s not as bad as some make him out, but he certainly is warranted the side eyed looks from skeptics.




Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[kevinc855]

31 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

youngest roster in the NFL?

How many times are you going to point this out? Does having a young roster give everyone a pass? JD made the decision to field it. So far it is 1-4. I guess im confused on why you think having the "youngest roster" in the NFL helps JD's case. 

[Biggs]

Just now, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I was happy he was hired. Don't tell me what my conclusion was about Saleh.

 

I am? If you convinced yourself of that, I guess there is no need to try to change your mind.

We have the youngest roster because the combined ages of the players average out to less than that of other teams. We have an untested rookie head coach and OC because we don't have a completely tested veteran HC and OC.

 

Can you please take about 10 seconds to proofread your posts before hitting send in a triggered rage? After you do that, please answer the question that you completely avoided. 

The fact that we have the youngest roster and a rookie HC and rookie OC who has never been a coordinator might be a  recipe for all of them to fall on their collective asses as opposed to an excuse?  

 I'm as big a dopey homer as you are.  I thought Lam Jones, Mark Sanchez, Sam Darnold were all going to be great.  I bought in to Zach.  With no results I was a full  blown ass licker.  I completely bought into Joe D and Saleh.  I, like you, was dumb as a stomp, so stupid I can't even play the banjo. 

If you don't get it don't respond.  We as a fan base have taken it for so long it's simply rinse repeat.   Were conditioned no different than Pavlovs dog.  

To defend the crap that we are putting on the field through 5 games with excuses is so Jetsy I literally can't take it anymore.  

Defend what.  That we suck.  It's a hypothisis that they may know what they are doing based on nothing of substance.   That it worked for some other team at some point in time and at some point it has to work for the NY Jets.   Stop defending it.  Watch it and tell me what you actually see.  When and if it works great.  Until it does making excuses for the turd you're viewing just makes you a tool of the NFL.

[kevinc855]

50 minutes ago, Biggs said:

You can project that he knows what he's doing but it's pure speculation.  

I think you hit the nail on the head. There is this narrative that JD "knows what hes doing" or has a "plan" Maybe, if the plan is "build through the draft" but once picks dont hit, its starts to get speculative. 

I have pointed this out many times, this way of building is riddled with risk, basically if it doesnt work you are BAD for many years. 

[doitny]

48 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

Mcgovern was another nice signing by Douglas 

more proof that were improving. 

[jgb]

18 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

The long and short of it is fans are irrational boobs who have bit, hook line and sinker into the week to week hysterical analysis.  We have 2 nincompoops clamoring for the days of Adam Gase and you have Lil Kevy Kev who has the emotional intelligence of a 13 year old girl and unfortunately for us, they love to litter the board with their nonsense.  So some of this is also just the loud mouths in the room dominating the conversation.  The extreme get the attention these days.  The middle road, level headed people are ignored.  HOT TAKES SELL!!!

The narrative before the season was; we finally have the right structure, we finally let our GM pick our HC, we fired the worst coach in the NFL, we finally have someone who is forward thinking, we surrounded Zach with talent, we finally have GM who has invested in offense, we know we're going to suck and that's ok because we're finally building the right way.  Fast forward to week 5 and everything is going exactly as predicted and now it's fire everyone time.  

Silly poop heads.

 

Absolutely agree and have said for once we cannot complain about the process of hiring JD/Saleh. Woody did everything fans (including me) have been screaming for. Get a legit candidate that is sought after in the league for GM and pay the necessary premium price. Don't pay Korn Ferry or call up some rabbi like Peyton Manning for advice. Have the HC report to the GM. Then go get a legit HC candidate that is -- again -- sought after. And even though I didn't like Wilson (what do I know) again the process is sound. Darnold showed he wasn't the guy and we had a top pick. That's when you have to take your shot.

The structural process isn't the problem and I haven't heard many complain about that. The issue is people are legitimately questioning whether JD has the chops to draft well. I agree it's too early to tear down the front office yet again, but expressing concern is not the same as impatience or being reactionary. Calling for him to be fired because Wilson had a rough first 6 games? Ok, those people are reactionaries.

[The Crusher]

The short simple of this is until Zach Wilson plays better its going to seem ugly and pointless. If Zach wakes up and has some adequate moments some of the small amount of progress will shine better. If Zach keeps playing awful and not progressing the toilet will eventually flush. Always does when you fail to develop or miss on a QB. 

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

The short simple of this is until Zach Wilson plays better its going to seem ugly and pointless. If Zach wakes up and has some adequate moments some of the small amount of progress will shine better. If Zach keeps playing awful and not progressing the toilet will eventually flush. Always does when you fail to develop or miss on a QB. 

Zach is rope-a-doping so when he finishes the season "red hot" with 4 TDs and 3 INTs in the last 5 games we will have his "upward trend" to sustain us through next off season.

[doitny]

30 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

The long and short of it is fans are irrational boobs who have bit, hook line and sinker into the week to week hysterical analysis.  We have 2 nincompoops clamoring for the days of Adam Gase and you have Lil Kevy Kev who has the emotional intelligence of a 13 year old girl and unfortunately for us, they love to litter the board with their nonsense.  So some of this is also just the loud mouths in the room dominating the conversation.  The extreme get the attention these days.  The middle road, level headed people are ignored.  HOT TAKES SELL!!!

The narrative before the season was; we finally have the right structure, we finally let our GM pick our HC, we fired the worst coach in the NFL, we finally have someone who is forward thinking, we surrounded Zach with talent, we finally have GM who has invested in offense, we know we're going to suck and that's ok because we're finally building the right way.  Fast forward to week 5 and everything is going exactly as predicted and now it's fire everyone time.  

Silly poop heads.

 

excellent post.

i was going to add to this but you got it all right

[munchmemory]

19 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I'm becoming a big fan of the Year One Doesn't Count people.

I love the new "you can't expect anything before three years have past" crowd.

[Biggs]

31 minutes ago, jgb said:

Absolutely agree and have said for once we cannot complain about the process of hiring JD/Saleh. Woody did everything fans (including me) have been screaming for. Get a legit candidate that is sought after in the league for GM and pay the necessary premium price. Don't pay Korn Ferry or call up some rabbi like Peyton Manning for advice. Have the HC report to the GM. Then go get a legit HC candidate that is -- again -- sought after. And even though I didn't like Wilson (what do I know) again the process is sound. Darnold showed he wasn't the guy and we had a top pick. That's when you have to take your shot.

The structural process isn't the problem and I haven't heard many complain about that. The issue is people are legitimately questioning whether JD has the chops to draft well. I agree it's too early to tear down the front office yet again, but expressing concern is not the same as impatience or being reactionary. Calling for him to be fired because Wilson had a rough first 6 games? Ok, those people are reactionaries.

What is sound about drafting a rookie QB and giving him to a rookie defensive minded HC who turns the rookie QB over to his BFF?  No backup plan if the rookie QB isn't ready or the rookie OC isn't ready.

[Wit]

6 minutes ago, Biggs said:

What is sound about drafting a rookie QB and giving him to a rookie defensive minded HC who turns the rookie QB over to his BFF?  No backup plan if the rookie QB isn't ready or the rookie OC isn't ready.

I think this is a fair point. The OC is 34 and has married himself to a complex  system that may not work with this QB. If they don’t simplify things it ain’t going to work.

he hasn’t been all bad either, his rookie QB is missing wide open throws as well. He isn’t throwing his receivers open either. 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

You are prob correct in your assessment on 21. If the Jets stink again in 22 we will see. That would mark 4 straight losing seasons under his tenure. 

The very earliest I could envision our ownership firing JD would be after the completion of the 2022 season.

His future will be based on how much improvement, if any, this franchise shows by that date IMO.

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

You came to this conclusion after 5 games with the youngest roster in the NFL?

Arizona for all of it's disfunction figured out their CEO, motivator of men, Steve Wilks wasn't HC material after 1 year.  They figured out that their OC wasn't cut out to be there OC in 5 games.   They figured out that the QB they took at 10 was a bust.    Right now they are the only undefeated team in the NFL. 

 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

8 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Arizona for all of it's disfunction figured out their CEO, motivator of men, Steve Wilks wasn't HC material after 1 year.  They figured out that their OC wasn't cut out to be there OC in 5 games.   They figured out that the QB they took at 10 was a bust.    Right now they are the only undefeated team in the NFL. 

 

Let's pick up this conversation after week 17.

[Snook]

2 hours ago, viffer said:

For those would-be lawyers proclaiming otherwise, when the league year started, i.e., when all the players are hired for the upcoming season (free agency, draft), JD was in year 2 of his contract. Year 3 of his contract started June of this year, after FA, after the draft.

So what you’re saying is he won’t be here for three years until the end of his third year of his contract? Nobody denied this except for the ones saying it’s been three years.

I’ve been of the opinion they had to give him six years because the first year of the league year was a wash as he didn’t have control over the most important part of building the team. I don’t know the contract wording but I wonder what the end date is. IMHO contracts should align with league years.

[Biggs]

19 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Let's pick up this conversation after week 17.

I hope it gets better also.  Giant fans thought they turned a corner in the second half of last year.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

11 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I hope it gets better also.  Giant fans thought they turned a corner in the second half of last year.

Me too!

[Wit]

43 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Arizona for all of it's disfunction figured out their CEO, motivator of men, Steve Wilks wasn't HC material after 1 year.  They figured out that their OC wasn't cut out to be there OC in 5 games.   They figured out that the QB they took at 10 was a bust.    Right now they are the only undefeated team in the NFL. 

 

They absolutely did the right thing. I hope that if they see Zach is a bust and saleh truly sucks that we give everyone the boot. That being said the George Steinbrenner method didn’t work for him until he was suspended from the league and Stick Michaels steady hand took over. 

[DoubleDown]

This is Joe Douglas' roster through and through.  He has had two drafts with multiple premium picks and two full free agency periods with loads of cap space.  The roster has been almost completely turned over since he was hired 2.5 years ago.

His players are young and his coaches are inexperienced, but so far, the results are objectively bad.  The Jets need to show improvement playing out the remainder of the season.  If they continue to look like one of the worst teams in the league, Douglas' tenure as GM is going to end sooner rather than later.  It's a results driven league.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Absolutely agree and have said for once we cannot complain about the process of hiring JD/Saleh. Woody did everything fans (including me) have been screaming for. Get a legit candidate that is sought after in the league for GM and pay the necessary premium price. Don't pay Korn Ferry or call up some rabbi like Peyton Manning for advice. Have the HC report to the GM. Then go get a legit HC candidate that is -- again -- sought after. And even though I didn't like Wilson (what do I know) again the process is sound. Darnold showed he wasn't the guy and we had a top pick. That's when you have to take your shot.

The structural process isn't the problem and I haven't heard many complain about that. The issue is people are legitimately questioning whether JD has the chops to draft well. I agree it's too early to tear down the front office yet again, but expressing concern is not the same as impatience or being reactionary. Calling for him to be fired because Wilson had a rough first 6 games? Ok, those people are reactionaries.

I understand that concern but the way I look at is, he was drafting for a totally different coaching staff last year and if Becton comes back and performs, honestly, landing a starting LT and starting CB in the same draft is a successful draft by every measure.  Throw any type of contribution from Mims, Perrine, Davis - it's nowhere near as bad as people are making it out to be.

This draft?  Nobody knows sh*t about sh*t.

 

 

 

[Columbia Jet Fan]

I'll caveat this with I think fans who are pissed at JD or have no faith in him are well in their rights given the product on the field. If you're out on JD - I get it - no issues. 

That being said I'm still a supporter. A lot of the reasons have been shared already so no point in doubling down. The ultimate reason I want him to stay is I think he thinks about things the right way. I believe you need to build from the draft, I believe if youre going to take swings in FA it should be for younger players who are rising, and I believe you should build through the trenches. 

You can throw all that away if you want. My NUMBER ONE reason I hope JD stays - is I believe he is better than whoever the Johnsons will pick next. Maybe JD isn't a savant, but the Johnsons are a GD joke and whether you like it or not the New York Jets as it pertains to all things on the field are JD's decisions. I'll roll the dice with JD all fn day over a random GM picked by the Johnsons. JD picked Saleh - who may or may not work out - but I think everyone would admit he was one of the top guys we could have chosen from given all the information at the time. We also got rid of the horrible structure where the coach and GM are both reporting to the Johnsons. 

I just can't get behind any opportunity to give the Johnsons more control over the on field product. Maybe thats a loser mentality - but I have such little faith in them I'd rather keep this for 2-3 more years than let the Johnsons influence reign again. 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

I understand that concern but the way I look at is, he was drafting for a totally different coaching staff last year and if Becton comes back and performs, honestly, landing a starting LT and starting CB in the same draft is a successful draft by every measure.  Throw any type of contribution from Mims, Perrine, Davis - it's nowhere near as bad as people are making it out to be.

This draft?  Nobody knows sh*t about sh*t.

 

 

 

Fine with wait and see before sending this draft pick to the glue factory but people have opinions. Why's that so bothersome?

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

1 hour ago, DoubleDown said:

This is Joe Douglas' roster through and through.  He has had two drafts with multiple premium picks and two full free agency periods with loads of cap space.  The roster has been almost completely turned over since he was hired 2.5 years ago.

His players are young and his coaches are inexperienced, but so far, the results are objectively bad.  The Jets need to show improvement playing out the remainder of the season.  If they continue to look like one of the worst teams in the league, Douglas' tenure as GM is going to end sooner rather than later.  It's a results driven league.

The only results that ever matter are current results. ***  The roster as it is now is bad, and the coaching staff is still pulling the plastic off their company issued devices. When we look back in a year, two years and beyond, if the "current" results in 2022 and 2023 are the same as 2021, we can take a huge sh*t on what JD did. If we are competing for a wild card spot in 2022, and a division title in 2023, we will look back at the rebuild as a necessary evil.

As a Sixers fan, it feels good to look back at how awful the roster was, and enjoy year after year of feeling like "we can actually win it all this year."

If it's any consolation, and I doubt that it will be, the Sixers whiffed majorly on multiple first round draft picks during the process, and they are still one of the top ranked teams in the NBA. When the rebuild began, the Sixers spent years of being middle of the pack and knocked out of the playoffs in the first round, or barely missing the playoffs. I'd rather tear it down than be mediocre. 

***The only caveat is a Super Bowl victory. You can live off of that for a many years. I might be the exception, but the 1994 Stanley Cup has made being a Rangers fan tolerable. A Jets Super Bowl victory would hold me over until I breathe my last breathe in 50+ years.