Defending Joe Douglas; And It's Year 2 Not Year 3

[Claymation]

2 hours ago, Biggs said:

Arizona for all of it's disfunction figured out their CEO, motivator of men, Steve Wilks wasn't HC material after 1 year.  They figured out that their OC wasn't cut out to be there OC in 5 games.   They figured out that the QB they took at 10 was a bust.    Right now they are the only undefeated team in the NFL. 

 

But they were 5-10-1 that 1st year with their new QB and HC. Last year they were 8-8. Now if they were impulsive and fired Kliff after his 1st season, they wouldn't be in the young season and Kyler wouldn't be a MVP candidate.

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, Columbia Jet Fan said:

I'll caveat this with I think fans who are pissed at JD or have no faith in him are well in their rights given the product on the field. If you're out on JD - I get it - no issues. 

That being said I'm still a supporter. A lot of the reasons have been shared already so no point in doubling down. The ultimate reason I want him to stay is I think he thinks about things the right way. I believe you need to build from the draft, I believe if youre going to take swings in FA it should be for younger players who are rising, and I believe you should build through the trenches. 

You can throw all that away if you want. My NUMBER ONE reason I hope JD stays - is I believe he is better than whoever the Johnsons will pick next. Maybe JD isn't a savant, but the Johnsons are a GD joke and whether you like it or not the New York Jets as it pertains to all things on the field are JD's decisions. I'll roll the dice with JD all fn day over a random GM picked by the Johnsons. JD picked Saleh - who may or may not work out - but I think everyone would admit he was one of the top guys we could have chosen from given all the information at the time. We also got rid of the horrible structure where the coach and GM are both reporting to the Johnsons. 

I just can't get behind any opportunity to give the Johnsons more control over the on field product. Maybe thats a loser mentality - but I have such little faith in them I'd rather keep this for 2-3 more years than let the Johnsons influence reign again. 

Great post that's spot on.  It's not a defense it's rational.   It's very possible Joe was given a position he wasn't ready for but might grow into.  While I have no idea if that's actually the case I do know that Woody is a low charachter owner with terrible judgement that a proven up and comer with any real moxie would turn down flat. 

[jgb]

3 hours ago, Biggs said:

What is sound about drafting a rookie QB and giving him to a rookie defensive minded HC who turns the rookie QB over to his BFF?  No backup plan if the rookie QB isn't ready or the rookie OC isn't ready.

We also blasted the Jets for running off Rhule and McCarthy by demanding veto rights on assistants. They didn't do that with Saleh.

Again, correct process. Results never guaranteed.

[JustInFudge]

17 minutes ago, jgb said:

Fine with wait and see before sending this draft pick to the glue factory but people have opinions. Why's that so bothersome?

I'm not bothered, I laugh at them because my EQ is superior by every measure.  I'm here to keep the level headed folks sane while the obnoxious extremists litter the board with nonsensical tirades.   I'm a man of the people. 

[jgb]

Just now, JiFapono said:

I'm not bothered, I laugh at them because my EQ is superior by every measure.  I'm here to keep the level headed folks sane while the obnoxious extremists litter the board with nonsensical tirades.   I'm a man of the people. 

And yeoman's work it is

[Biggs]

1 minute ago, Claymation said:

But they were 5-10-1 that 1st year with their new QB and HC. Last year they were 8-8. Now if they were impulsive and fired Kliff after his 1st season, they wouldn't be in the young season and Kyler wouldn't be a MVP candidate.

They had the 16th ranked scoring O in the league with Kingsbury and Kyler in his first year.  Kyler threw for 20 TD's and had 12 INT's.  They had a bad roster but they put an exciting team that was rarely blown out on the field.  They were watchable.  They were ascending.  Their rookie QB was getting national eyeballs.  

Murray threw for 308 with 2 TD's and 1 INT in game one.  

You couild actually watch a Cardinals game without ripping your eyes out of your head.  

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Biggs said:

They had the 16th ranked scoring O in the league with Kingsbury and Kyler in his first year.  Kyler threw for 20 TD's and had 12 INT's.  They had a bad roster but they put an exciting team that was rarely blown out on the field.  They were watchable.  They were ascending.  Their rookie QB was getting national eyeballs.  

Murray threw for 308 with 2 TD's and 1 INT in game one.  

You couild actually watch a Cardinals game without ripping your eyes out of your head.  

Yep. Despite but Tuna said, there is more to a team than its record.

[LSJF]

4 hours ago, JiFapono said:

 

The narrative before the season was; we finally have the right structure, we finally let our GM pick our HC, we fired the worst coach in the NFL, we finally have someone who is forward thinking, we surrounded Zach with talent, we finally have GM who has invested in offense, we know we're going to suck and that's ok because we're finally building the right way.  Fast forward to week 5 and everything is going exactly as predicted and now it's fire everyone time.  

Silly poop heads.

 

 The defense has been respectable, our young DB's are surprisingly better than expected, which means the are developing...

I pray that LaFleur will grow with the position, their is no Greg Knapp to lean on.. Jets should hire Zach's  personal coach that he sees in the offseason and breaks ,  maybe it will help... I hope they become less stubborn with the personnel I'd rather see them try spreading the O w Mims, Davis, crowder and  Moore,, Our Te's are a disaster

I think the staff is intelligent hungry and driven... A lil stubborn in trying to only players to fit the system as opposed to you know .....

All in all if they were fired, who of value would ever want to come here...that's how you get the Idziks and Mcacagnans 

[Claymation]

8 minutes ago, Biggs said:

They had the 16th ranked scoring O in the league with Kingsbury and Kyler in his first year.  Kyler threw for 20 TD's and had 12 INT's.  They had a bad roster but they put an exciting team that was rarely blown out on the field.  They were watchable.  They were ascending.  Their rookie QB was getting national eyeballs.  

Murray threw for 308 with 2 TD's and 1 INT in game one.  

You couild actually watch a Cardinals game without ripping your eyes out of your head.  

Arizona had the worst defense that year and gave up 6 yards per play.

Giving up an Average of 402 yards per game that year.

They had a point differential of -81 points that year. Coincidentally, that is roughly the same points differential the Jets had that year. 

 

 

[Matt39]

Where the Jets miss and continue to miss in the draft is the relationships with college coaches and staffs who are willing to give the full skinny on guys coming into the league. Just feels like the Jets miss a lot of the important football dedication/commitment stuff when evaluating college prospects. Mims would have been an obvious no-draft probably with more of a microscope on his time at Baylor.

Also Zuniga over Greenard. One guy can play and the other cant. Both from the same school drafted in the same round playing the same position. What happened there?

[Biggs]

6 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Arizona had the worst defense that year and gave up 6 yards per play.

Giving up an Average of 402 yards per game that year.

They had a point differential of -81 points that year. Coincidentally, that is roughly the same points differential the Jets had that year. 

 

 

Our point differential through 5 games is 10.8 the Cardinals was 5.06 for that year.  

[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Where the Jets miss and continue to miss in the draft is the relationships with college coaches and staffs who are willing to give the full skinny on guys coming into the league. Just feels like the Jets miss a lot of the important football dedication/commitment stuff when evaluating college prospects. Mims would have been an obvious no-draft probably with more of a microscope on his time at Baylor.

Also Zuniga over Greenard. One guy can play and the other cant. Both from the same school drafted in the same round playing the same position. What happened there?

They seem to put a ton of stock in the Senior Bowl for whatever reason.  I assume it is becuase of Savage, but can't be sure.  I'm not sure how that is working out.  Guess the Giants do too.  They picked the Senior Bowl MVP 3 years straight. Webb-Lauleta-Jones.  Those guys were bookended by Prescott and Herbert.  Ouch.

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

They seem to put a ton of stock in the Senior Bowl for whatever reason.  I assume it is becuase of Savage, but can't be sure.  I'm not sure how that is working out.  Guess the Giants do too.  They picked the Senior Bowl MVP 3 years straight. Webb-Lauleta-Jones.  Those guys were bookended by Prescott and Herbert.  Ouch.

Yikes.

[BornJetsFan1983]

On 10/17/2021 at 1:33 PM, McNeil said:

If we're going to roast JD's missteps, we should also give him credit for his successes.

1) Case in point: Darnold. He's regressed to a mean, and some Carolina fans are calling for the back up to play. Granted Carolina has been without McCaffrey recent games. But look at the teams Carolina has defeated with Sam leading the way. Unimpressive. (Tho that was a great 4th quarter comeback he just led tying it).

Darnold was Macc's choice and right now it looks like Joe D made the right move trading him away. Does anyone see Darnold being a SB-winning QB? That's the goal after all.

2) The Jets defense has been shredded by injury particularly in the back end. But working with Saleh, JD has done a solid job shoring things up. If not for a historically anemic offense* perhaps the Jets are in a better position to win vs. Carolina and Atlanta.

3). *Offense: it has been horrifying, and the o-line has been bad. Here JD should be accurately scorched. Whether it's the Xs & Os and/or Jimmy & Joes, the buck stops with Douglas. He hired Saleh who in turn hired LaFleur. Together they've failed miserably at putting a good offensive product on the field.

4). JD was hired June 2019, after free agency and the draft. For all intents and purposes this is Year 2 of his tenure. To constantly state otherwise is a form of gaslighting.

In conclusion: I began a JD fan boy, I haven't been for some time. But before completely crucifying him let's be accurate in our assessments.

 

 

point 5 Joe has done more good in his  short few seasons than anyone since Parcells. Aside from fixing the books, chainging the philosophy and power structure to one that works and gives accountability to the GM is crucial in building a winning atmospshere.

Crucify him? If anything we shoudl be exalting his greatness while he leads 

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

They had the 16th ranked scoring O in the league with Kingsbury and Kyler in his first year.  Kyler threw for 20 TD's and had 12 INT's.  They had a bad roster but they put an exciting team that was rarely blown out on the field.  They were watchable.  They were ascending.  Their rookie QB was getting national eyeballs.  

Murray threw for 308 with 2 TD's and 1 INT in game one.  

You couild actually watch a Cardinals game without ripping your eyes out of your head.  

First of all...

Murray is a different kind of player than Zach, you can do a lot more with his legs early to keep things respectable.

Second, ZW got national attention and won rookie of the week...Zach haters have a hard time with this - act like it didn't happen.

And the talent on that team was not nearly as bad as the talent on the Jets offense right now.

This idea that you guys are really judging a QB on the first 5 games of a his rookie season (understanding the circumstances) and have decided he's a bust already.

If it wasn't so infuriating it would be comical.

[Biggs]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

First of all...

Murray is a different kind of player than Zach, you can do a lot more with his legs early to keep things respectable.

Second, ZW got national attention and won rookie of the week...Zach haters have a hard time with this - act like it didn't happen.

And the talent on that team was not nearly as bad as the talent on the Jets offense right now.

This idea that you guys are really judging a QB on the first 5 games of a his rookie season (understanding the circumstances) and have decided he's a bust already.

If it wasn't so infuriating it would be comical.

I love Zach.  He's got talent.  The Jets HC and OC have handled him like dogsh*t.  I'm not sure what your arguing.  I've been among the biggest Zach ass lickers on this board.

[FidelioJet]

20 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I love Zach.  He's got talent.  The Jets HC and OC have handled him like dogsh*t.  I'm not sure what your arguing.  I've been among the biggest Zach ass lickers on this board.

I'm sorry man.  You're right!

Tough day at work today! Just got on the board...read one thing and typed!

[Claymation]

Our point differential through 5 games is 10.8 the Cardinals was 5.06 for that year.  

26 point differential is attributed to the Denver game. Again the Cardinals were the worst defensive team that year. How are they this year? The Jets defense is one of the better units in the league, that’s with 4/5 of the nickel formation being a rookie or 2nd year player.

The point I am getting at, young teams get better when they get experience. I only see this team getting better throughout the season. They will be better next season.

[Biggs]

15 minutes ago, Claymation said:

26 point differential is attributed to the Denver game. Again the Cardinals were the worst defensive team that year. How are they this year? The Jets defense is one of the better units in the league, that’s with 4/5 of the nickel formation being a rookie or 2nd year player.

The point I am getting at, young teams get better when they get experience. I only see this team getting better throughout the season. They will be better next season.

The Cardinals had a GM that built a team that went to the NFC championship.  They realized the blew the HC and QBs and dumped both of them.  They brought in the QB they were going with one of his college Coaches. They drafted a ton of O with Murray.  They got Hopkins in year two and drafted D and brought in FAs.  
 

they had a very experienced former GM of the year rebuild it.  His first move was getting rid of sunk cost.  A rookie HC and QB who couldn’t cut it.   

[Rhg1084]

No team in the NFL is hitting on a majority of their draft picks. So for guys to go down the list of JDs picks and declare him a bust off of that is ridiculous.

You want to be a successful GM in today’s NFL? It’s simple, hit on the QB. Then it’s kind of easy to build the rest of your team if you got a QB. 
 

Look at all the top teams out there today… Buffalo, Dallas, KC, Green Bay, Baltimore, Chargers, Arizona. What do they all have in common? They drafted a stud QB. If you want to go thru all their drafts I’m sure they missed out on a bunch of picks as well. 
 

JDs success or failure will come down to how good Zach is 

[Matt39]

6 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

No team in the NFL is hitting on a majority of their draft picks. So for guys to go down the list of JDs picks and declare him a bust off of that is ridiculous.

You want to be a successful GM in today’s NFL? It’s simple, hit on the QB. Then it’s kind of easy to build the rest of your team if you got a QB. 
 

Look at all the top teams out there today… Buffalo, Dallas, KC, Green Bay, Baltimore, Chargers, Arizona. What do they all have in common? They drafted a stud QB. If you want to go thru all their drafts I’m sure they missed out on a bunch of picks as well. 
 

JDs success or failure will come down to how good Zach is 

“We can’t expect the general manager to make good draft picks” is peak Jets fan cope.

[Rhg1084]

44 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

“We can’t expect the general manager to make good draft picks” is peak Jets fan cope.

Lol so how do you explain the Packers not drafting an impactful player in about 3 years but still one of top teams every year? My point is he needs to hit on the QB then everything else will fall into place 

[SAR I]

48 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

“We can’t expect the general manager to make good draft picks” is peak Jets fan cope.

As is "Douglas just needs to hit on the quarterback and everything will fall into place".

Like we haven't seen 19 general managers and 132 quarterbacks come through town since Namath left.

SAR I

[Matt39]

11 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

Lol so how do you explain the Packers not drafting an impactful player in about 3 years but still one of top teams every year? My point is he needs to hit on the QB then everything else will fall into place 

The other pieces could be falling into place now, but they’re not. Other receivers were available in round 2 last year. Hell Zunigas teammate who plays the same position was on the board too. Douglas whiffed on these badly. We should expect him to make these types of picks.

[Rhg1084]

5 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

The other pieces could be falling into place now, but they’re not. Other receivers were available in round 2 last year. Hell Zunigas teammate who plays the same position was on the board too. Douglas whiffed on these badly. We should expect him to make these types of picks.

Name me the GM who hits on all his picks… a majority of them miss on almost all their picks! Look at Seattle’s history of drafting, yet theyre still a top team every year cause they got the QB. And pointing to pick 79 of last years draft as an example of his failures is nuts 

[Claymation]

The Cardinals had a GM that built a team that went to the NFC championship.  They realized the blew the HC and QBs and dumped both of them.  They brought in the QB they were going with one of his college Coaches. They drafted a ton of O with Murray.  They got Hopkins in year two and drafted D and brought in FAs.  
 
they had a very experienced former GM of the year rebuild it.  His first move was getting rid of sunk cost.  A rookie HC and QB who couldn’t cut it.   

Didn’t the Jets just dump their QB and HC? And while JD doesn’t have the experience, he was part of a front office under Ozzie. He also has two experienced FO executives in Hogan and Savage. I like the direction they are headed in, I have yet to read anything compelling on here that will change my opinion.

[Biggs]

8 hours ago, Claymation said:

Didn’t the Jets just dump their QB and HC? And while JD doesn’t have the experience, he was part of a front office under Ozzie. He also has two experienced FO executives in Hogan and Savage. I like the direction they are headed in, I have yet to read anything compelling on here that will change my opinion.

Again I don’t advocate firing Douglas.  I’m not going to make excuses for him either.   I’m watching the team.  The product stinks and even worse it’s dull.  
 

I have zero expectation that the Jets can make a better hire.  I’ve waited a long time for good Jets football.   My interest in the team along with expectations are low.  Honestly don’t want to see anyone fired.  That doesn’t mean I have to continue to make excuses.   If someone serves me a bad meal, it’s not my job to make excuses for the chief. 
 

He tore it down.  His served the fan base a turd.  I don’t have to like it or make excuses for it.  If we’re feasting on great football in 7 to 10 years I’m good.   Just pointing out that I’m not eating this sh*t.  

[kevinc855]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

 If we’re feasting on great football in 7 to 10 years I’m good.

Are we really at the point where it takes a decade for the rebuild? Lol

[Claymation]

2 hours ago, Biggs said:

Again I don’t advocate firing Douglas.  I’m not going to make excuses for him either.   I’m watching the team.  The product stinks and even worse it’s dull.  
 

I have zero expectation that the Jets can make a better hire.  I’ve waited a long time for good Jets football.   My interest in the team along with expectations are low.  Honestly don’t want to see anyone fired.  That doesn’t mean I have to continue to make excuses.   If someone serves me a bad meal, it’s not my job to make excuses for the chief. 
 

He tore it down.  His served the fan base a turd.  I don’t have to like it or make excuses for it.  If we’re feasting on great football in 7 to 10 years I’m good.   Just pointing out that I’m not eating this sh*t.  

That's fair. How quick did you expect the turnaround to happen? 5 games, since the hiring of this HC and drafting this QB.

Or 21 games when he starting rebuilding the franchise from scratch? What were your expectations? 

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, Claymation said:

That's fair. How quick did you expect the turnaround to happen? 5 games, since the hiring of this HC and drafting this QB.

Or 21 games when he starting rebuilding the franchise from scratch? What were your expectations? 

I expected a two to three year rebuild.  I expected that they would have a development plan for Zach.  It's clear their plan was throw him into the fire without adequate protection or a full understanding of the O.  They had no backup plan and they set the rebuild back.  

They are doing more to protect and develop Mimms than they are to protect Zach.  

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

14 hours ago, Claymation said:

Didn’t the Jets just dump their QB and HC? And while JD doesn’t have the experience, he was part of a front office under Ozzie. He also has two experienced FO executives in Hogan and Savage. I like the direction they are headed in, I have yet to read anything compelling on here that will change my opinion.

People are not grasping the fact that we are IN the rebuild, and not rebuilt. People are also not grasping that this rebuild includes tearing down some of what he did in the scraps of 2019 and the entire year of 2020. People are not grasping that in the eyes of Woody, this is year one of the rebuild. The sooner people understand that, the quicker they can cope and start enjoying watching a budding team and staff grow together. 

[talonmm]

14 hours ago, Claymation said:

Didn’t the Jets just dump their QB and HC? And while JD doesn’t have the experience, he was part of a front office under Ozzie. He also has two experienced FO executives in Hogan and Savage. I like the direction they are headed in, I have yet to read anything compelling on here that will change my opinion.

You want compelling?  Look at the team's record since JD took over.  That's compelling.

[#27TheDominator]

6 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

People are not grasping the fact that we are IN the rebuild, and not rebuilt. People are also not grasping that this rebuild includes tearing down some of what he did in the scraps of 2019 and the entire year of 2020. People are not grasping that in the eyes of Woody, this is year one of the rebuild. The sooner people understand that, the quicker they can cope and start enjoying watching a budding team and staff grow together. 

I think the issue foundation.  I kind of feel like you.  We need more time to see how we are doing.  I do not feel that things look great right now and I'm not sure how promising they are.   Everybody was hoping that 2019 was going to be like 1996 and that we might have some quick turnaround with the new coach bump. 

This certainly does not like like 1997 or 2009.  More importantly, the pieces that Douglas added are not looking great.  If Maccagnan was so bad, you'd think that many of the pieces added in 2019 and 2020 would be core players.  Which of those guys is looking good?  Guidry.  JFM.  Hall.  If everything else was the same and Becton and Mims were flourishing opinion would be much higher.  Hopefully that is where we are headed as the year goes on.

[jgb]

14 hours ago, Claymation said:

Didn’t the Jets just dump their QB and HC? And while JD doesn’t have the experience, he was part of a front office under Ozzie. He also has two experienced FO executives in Hogan and Savage. I like the direction they are headed in, I have yet to read anything compelling on here that will change my opinion.

Found some other people who spent time in the war room with Ozzie Newsome to short list if we decide to move on from JD:

 

[Jetsfan80]

26 minutes ago, jgb said:

Found some other people who spent time in the war room with Ozzie Newsome to short list if we decide to move on from JD:

 

 

@The Crusher supports the hiring of the Uber Eats guy.