TheMo Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 On 10/17/2021 at 5:09 PM, Jolot said: Speaking as probably one of the few people left that doesn’t gamble on sports at all..not even fantasy….( doesn’t make me any better than anyone it’s just not my thing )…I can say that gambling has destroyed the NFL for fans who don’t gamble …we are the minority so they don’t care …but unless you are gambling the NFL is unwatchable. I casually watch now ..mostly cuz of relationships I’ve built on this board over the years ….the product is THAT bad . As someone who clearly watched the game before I started watching what do you feel like had changed the most in terms of officiating. I think I was able to watch in the 2000s before fantasy was huge but most of my time had been after. Just curious cause I don't gamble either and I feel more and more disinterested of late just couldn't put my finger on it. Feel like you'd give me insight into why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lith Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 15 hours ago, TheMo said: As someone who clearly watched the game before I started watching what do you feel like had changed the most in terms of officiating. I think I was able to watch in the 2000s before fantasy was huge but most of my time had been after. Just curious cause I don't gamble either and I feel more and more disinterested of late just couldn't put my finger on it. Feel like you'd give me insight into why. I know you didn't address this to me, but I will share my two cents. I think the league has gotten to be too QB-centric. If you don't have an elite QB, or at least a very good QB capable of playing at an elite level for a playoff run, then you can't win a Super Bowl in today's NFL. The days of Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, Jim McMahon, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler winning Super Bowls are gone (ok Nick Foles was an exception). As are the days of Jake Delhomme and Rex Grossman making it there. If half the league's fans know their team has little chance, they lose interest. In the last 10 years, how many Jet seasons have effectively been over by Halloween, or even Columbus Day? 9? So to keep those fans involved, they are promoting gambling. Your team sucks, play fantasy or put some money down on a couple of teams this week to stay interested. I think it spills over into officiating since the league wants to protect the top QBs. I think there is too much money involved for any conspiracy theories about refs favoring team A over team B, but I do think there is pressure on refs to protect the Bradys, Rodgers, Mahomes of the league moreso than the Wilsons and Darnolds. They get more benefit of roughing and DPI calls and less holding calls. Add to that the increased use of replay and we have a bunch of refs who seem to be unsure whether or not to throw a flag. The referee conferences after each flag is thrown have gotten ridiculous. And then there is letting a play continue so you can review it afterwards. Call a play a fumble and get an automatic review. Anyway, enough of my rant. I could go on and on about what I think it wrong with the modern NFL. But it does not really matter. I don't gamble, but I will still watch tonight's game. And all day Sunday. And Monday night. And do it all over again next week. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sec101row23 Posted October 21, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted October 21, 2021 11 minutes ago, Lith said: I know you didn't address this to me, but I will share my two cents. I think the league has gotten to be too QB-centric. If you don't have an elite QB, or at least a very good QB capable of playing at an elite level for a playoff run, then you can't win a Super Bowl in today's NFL. The days of Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, Jim McMahon, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler winning Super Bowls are gone (ok Nick Foles was an exception). As are the days of Jake Delhomme and Rex Grossman making it there. If half the league's fans know their team has little chance, they lose interest. In the last 10 years, how many Jet seasons have effectively been over by Halloween, or even Columbus Day? 9? So to keep those fans involved, they are promoting gambling. Your team sucks, play fantasy or put some money down on a couple of teams this week to stay interested. I think it spills over into officiating since the league wants to protect the top QBs. I think there is too much money involved for any conspiracy theories about refs favoring team A over team B, but I do think there is pressure on refs to protect the Bradys, Rodgers, Mahomes of the league moreso than the Wilsons and Darnolds. They get more benefit of roughing and DPI calls and less holding calls. Add to that the increased use of replay and we have a bunch of refs who seem to be unsure whether or not to throw a flag. The referee conferences after each flag is thrown have gotten ridiculous. And then there is letting a play continue so you can review it afterwards. Call a play a fumble and get an automatic review. Anyway, enough of my rant. I could go on and on about what I think it wrong with the modern NFL. But it does not really matter. I don't gamble, but I will still watch tonight's game. And all day Sunday. And Monday night. And do it all over again next week. The emphasis by the league to promote and facilitate more offense has gone too far IMO. The officiating has become so inconsistent and over reactionary. You can basically con the refs into pass interference penalties now. All you need is a good crowd reaction coupled with an immediate and demonstrative reaction from the WR, and you can generate a PI call from these officials. I’ve seen so many PI’s called well after the play has been over and for stuff that does t even resemble PI. The worst part is that the ball doesn’t need to be catchable anymore for it to be PI. What happened to that aspect of the rule? If you are going to award a 40 yard penalty for PI the ball can’t be 10 yards overthrown. Never mind the roughing the QB stuff, that’s just become a complete joke. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56mehl56 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 29 minutes ago, sec101row23 said: The emphasis by the league to promote and facilitate more offense has gone too far IMO. The officiating has become so inconsistent and over reactionary. You can basically con the refs into pass interference penalties now. All you need is a good crowd reaction coupled with an immediate and demonstrative reaction from the WR, and you can generate a PI call from these officials. I’ve seen so many PI’s called well after the play has been over and for stuff that does t even resemble PI. The worst part is that the ball doesn’t need to be catchable anymore for it to be PI. What happened to that aspect of the rule? If you are going to award a 40 yard penalty for PI the ball can’t be 10 yards overthrown. Never mind the roughing the QB stuff, that’s just become a complete joke. My seats are in the Mezz EZ so sometimes a far way from the field action for my declining eyesight. In the Titans game on the 4th down PI call against the Jets I could have swore I saw the Ref with his hand reaching for the flag before the ball even got to the WR. I truly believe some of these calls are predetermined by down/distance and the teams playing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 On 10/17/2021 at 6:37 PM, T0mShane said: The older you get, the less things are geared toward your preferences. The NFL doesn’t care if 45+ year-old dudes are happy, because they know for a fact that you’re going to watch it anyway. There is no competition for your attention. The NFL changes the rules and realigns its production to attract younger, more profitable viewers. The 24 year old kid who’s paying attention to the NFL because of his DraftKings or FanDuel account is worth exponentially more to advertisers than our washed-up, broken-down old asses. We’re just the furniture now. I always assumed the 18-49 demographic was key because young people are trend setters. I found out later it's because people who are 50+ are set in their ways and uninfluenced by advertising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lith Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 4 hours ago, sec101row23 said: The emphasis by the league to promote and facilitate more offense has gone too far IMO. The officiating has become so inconsistent and over reactionary. You can basically con the refs into pass interference penalties now. All you need is a good crowd reaction coupled with an immediate and demonstrative reaction from the WR, and you can generate a PI call from these officials. I’ve seen so many PI’s called well after the play has been over and for stuff that does t even resemble PI. The worst part is that the ball doesn’t need to be catchable anymore for it to be PI. What happened to that aspect of the rule? If you are going to award a 40 yard penalty for PI the ball can’t be 10 yards overthrown. Never mind the roughing the QB stuff, that’s just become a complete joke. DPI has become part of the strategy for throwing deep balls. It has gotten ridiculous. DB has perfect position. Ball is underthrown. WR comes back through the DB, WR initiates the contact, and a flag is thrown on the DB for a 40 yard gain. If the DB has position, and contact is initiatied by WR, it should not be a penalty. But that is today's NFL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sec101row23 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said: My seats are in the Mezz EZ so sometimes a far way from the field action for my declining eyesight. In the Titans game on the 4th down PI call against the Jets I could have swore I saw the Ref with his hand reaching for the flag before the ball even got to the WR. I truly believe some of these calls are predetermined by down/distance and the teams playing. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Lith said: I know you didn't address this to me, but I will share my two cents. I think the league has gotten to be too QB-centric. If you don't have an elite QB, or at least a very good QB capable of playing at an elite level for a playoff run, then you can't win a Super Bowl in today's NFL. The days of Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, Jim McMahon, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler winning Super Bowls are gone (ok Nick Foles was an exception). As are the days of Jake Delhomme and Rex Grossman making it there. If half the league's fans know their team has little chance, they lose interest. In the last 10 years, how many Jet seasons have effectively been over by Halloween, or even Columbus Day? 9? So to keep those fans involved, they are promoting gambling. Your team sucks, play fantasy or put some money down on a couple of teams this week to stay interested. I think it spills over into officiating since the league wants to protect the top QBs. I think there is too much money involved for any conspiracy theories about refs favoring team A over team B, but I do think there is pressure on refs to protect the Bradys, Rodgers, Mahomes of the league moreso than the Wilsons and Darnolds. They get more benefit of roughing and DPI calls and less holding calls. Add to that the increased use of replay and we have a bunch of refs who seem to be unsure whether or not to throw a flag. The referee conferences after each flag is thrown have gotten ridiculous. And then there is letting a play continue so you can review it afterwards. Call a play a fumble and get an automatic review. Anyway, enough of my rant. I could go on and on about what I think it wrong with the modern NFL. But it does not really matter. I don't gamble, but I will still watch tonight's game. And all day Sunday. And Monday night. And do it all over again next week. I agree with your gambling and would add fantasy to this. I will disagree with your point on the QBs to a degree. Last year's match-up of elites was the first one since 2015. Jimmy G made it to the Superbowl by throwing 27 passes. Similarly, Goff was at best okay getting to the Superbowl. Then the Denver/Carolina Superbowl. Yikes. My only point, I think there is a way to win a Superbowl with a QB that is outside the Top 10. To your point, the team will need to be great somewhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lith Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 28 minutes ago, PFSIKH said: I agree with your gambling and would add fantasy to this. I will disagree with your point on the QBs to a degree. Last year's match-up of elites was the first one since 2015. Jimmy G made it to the Superbowl by throwing 27 passes. Similarly, Goff was at best okay getting to the Superbowl. Then the Denver/Carolina Superbowl. Yikes. My only point, I think there is a way to win a Superbowl with a QB that is outside the Top 10. To your point, the team will need to be great somewhere. Fair point. But even those teams that have gotten there without elite QB play made their run one season and were not heard from again. He did not put up big numbers, but Denver still had Peyton Manning for their 2 SB appearances. And Cam had an MVP season when Carolina made it. Part of my point though is that in today's game, it is an awful lot to ask of a mediocre QB to put together the 3 or 4 games needed to win an SB. Goff won 2 games, but couldn't do anything against a great NE defense to win the 3rd. Jimmy G won 2 games, but couldn't keep up with Mahomes in teh SB. Elite QB play means you are in contention year in year out. Mediocre QB play with another elite position group can get you on a one year run, but it is rarely enough to win it all or be sustainable. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 31 minutes ago, Lith said: Elite QB play means you are in contention year in year out. Mediocre QB play with another elite position group can get you on a one year run, but it is rarely enough to win it all or be sustainable. I think this is the most important aspect of having that elite QB. Which, of course, works well in the NFL narrative. Sure, you can have a great season with a strong defense but it's not sustainable, one maybe two years and you're back to drafting in the top 10... But if you have a top 5 QB you're winning 12,13 games a year and a top 10 QB and you're mostly going to the playoffs every year. All the other teams, like the Jets, have to try and scratch out a 10 win season and hope to snag a wild card every 3 or 4 years. But those 5-10 QB's will be the NFL brand and they want them getting as much exposure as possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 19 hours ago, Lith said: Elite QB play means you are in contention year in year out. Mediocre QB play with another elite position group can get you on a one year run, but it is rarely enough to win it all or be sustainable. I totally agree. In addition to the elite QB play, the Brady's, Mahomes' and Rodgers' of the world can pull in those veteran FAs chasing a ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMo Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 20 hours ago, Lith said: Fair point. But even those teams that have gotten there without elite QB play made their run one season and were not heard from again. He did not put up big numbers, but Denver still had Peyton Manning for their 2 SB appearances. And Cam had an MVP season when Carolina made it. Part of my point though is that in today's game, it is an awful lot to ask of a mediocre QB to put together the 3 or 4 games needed to win an SB. Goff won 2 games, but couldn't do anything against a great NE defense to win the 3rd. Jimmy G won 2 games, but couldn't keep up with Mahomes in teh SB. Elite QB play means you are in contention year in year out. Mediocre QB play with another elite position group can get you on a one year run, but it is rarely enough to win it all or be sustainable. I think you did hit it for me. In a way I feel like the NFL has regressed to the college level of disparity in my mind. The outcome is borderline predetermined. Like you said, no because of some nefarious plot, but cause of the push to be totally revolving around offenses and QBs. I am 33 and somewhat bored of the NFL lately. None of the results lately after surprising to me. Just the same show again and again across the league. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 All I know is not one of my grandsons care less about watching an NFL game. When we were young we played at the parks and schoolyards EVERY weekend during football season. We played night touch football games at the mall parking lots with a dozen or so kids. When was the last time you saw a dozen white kids from 12-16 playing a game of tackle? They ruined this game and it started with this commissioner and his decision to have the red, white and blue Patriots win the Super Bowl after 9/11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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