Not Giving up on Wilson But Fields Looks Pretty Good...

[The Crusher]

5 hours ago, win4ever said:

I liked Fields prior to the draft because I thought (and still do) he was a better fit for the Shanahan offense because it relies so much on misdirection.  

Fields has looked about the same as Wilson, taking some risks, playing with a mediocre offense and bad OL with terrible play calling.  However, he has that extra gear athleticism that can keep defenses honest and that was my biggest attraction to him.  Look at Lamar Jackson, he's not a great thrower, but because he runs so well, he gets one on one matchups for his receivers.  Fields isn't as good as Lamar in terms of running (Lamar just has insane lateral quickness), but Fields throws the ball better down the field.  

Wilson has looked better than I expected coming out of the draft but he has his warts too.  

The main problem is the OL because I don't think Mac Jones has looked all that great when you consider he has very good OL and defense around him.  Neither Fields nor Wilson has that luxury where you can go through progressions on most plays.  It'll be interesting to see how the team sets up the OL next year, because they really need to invest in a RG and possibly RT/C.  

Second, neither of them are playing in offenses that suit their style.  Wilson needs vertical passing, because that sets up his intermediate game.  We tried it at the start but the OL sucks to the point they can't protect for that long.  Fields needs more horizontal spread to create passing lanes because his athleticism should keep linebackers closer to the middle or have contain duties.  

Look at what the Chiefs do so well for Mahomes.  They installed an elite OL, which means if you don't blitz, Mahomes has time to go through the progressions.  Then they got elite weapons for down the field (Hill) intermediate (Kelce) and then tried to pick guys for short yardage (Hardman, CEH) which haven't quite hit.  Either way, their philosophy seems to be giving the defense a headache based on choice.  If you don't blitz, then Mahomes can sit in the pocket and pick you apart.  If you overload a blitz, he has enough athleticism to run to the other side.  If you bring your safeties up to replace blitzing linebackers, you better hope he's sacked with Hill/Hardman.  If you keep your safeties back and blitz, the intermediate area is Kelce's playground.  

The Jets don't have anything resembling that plan because teams get pressure without blitzing, thus allowing defenders to drop back.  On top of it, we refuse to play Mims, who can actually threaten a defense, thus we have a No. 2 receiver in Davis, and a bunch of slot guys.  Hopefully investing in the OL solves one issue, and then can go from there.  

Joe Douglas needs to buy you lunch dude.   

[win4ever]

21 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Joe Douglas needs to buy you lunch dude.   

I'm not sure I blame him for the Wilson pick, I can see the reasons he was picked because his arm talent is special.  

I'm not sure about the makeup of the team though, because that has been entirely confusing for me.  If you have a rookie QB pretty much anointed as QB 1, you need a guy that is known to install an offense, that fits the player.  Bills had Daboll cater the system to fit Allen, Roman catered the system to fit Jackson.  Steanski changed the system to fit Baker.  Even Lawrence is most comfortable in a horizontal spread, which is what Meyer runs.  Yet, we seem to be putting the wrong system for Wilson, or we don't have the talent to run the system.  

The high amount of TE usage, when we have losers running out there is baffling.  I see other teams making one handed catches out of nowhere, yet we have guys that can't touch their toes.   

[jgb]

21 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Joe Douglas needs to buy you lunch dude.   

Gross. JD's favorite place to go grocery shopping is the dumpster.

[JohnnyLV]

2 minutes ago, win4ever said:

I'm not sure I blame him for the Wilson pick, I can see the reasons he was picked because his arm talent is special.  

I'm not sure about the makeup of the team though, because that has been entirely confusing for me.  If you have a rookie QB pretty much anointed as QB 1, you need a guy that is known to install an offense, that fits the player.  Bills had Daboll cater the system to fit Allen, Roman catered the system to fit Jackson.  Steanski changed the system to fit Baker.  Even Lawrence is most comfortable in a horizontal spread, which is what Meyer runs.  Yet, we seem to be putting the wrong system for Wilson, or we don't have the talent to run the system.  

The high amount of TE usage, when we have losers running out there is baffling.  I see other teams making one handed catches out of nowhere, yet we have guys that can't touch their toes.   

Well Saleh says that they really looked at the offense and changed it for Zach. In the summer Saleh said that they have a base "system" but it would be tailored for Zach. Not sure where the disconnect was but that is most definitely not what they did. The 2 TE sets and the bunch formations are not a fit for Zach. Our TEs suck and the windows all the bunch creates are very tight. Zach can fit it in there but he is learning so much and still developing timing that it is just a bad situation for him. Go 10 and 11 personnel, spread the offense out and let Zach ball in space.

[win4ever]

6 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Well Saleh says that they really looked at the offense and changed it for Zach. In the summer Saleh said that they have a base "system" but it would be tailored for Zach. Not sure where the disconnect was but that is most definitely not what they did. The 2 TE sets and the bunch formations are not a fit for Zach. Our TEs suck and the windows all the bunch creates are very tight. Zach can fit it in there but he is learning so much and still developing timing that it is just a bad situation for him. Go 10 and 11 personnel, spread the offense out and let Zach ball in space.

I think everyone has talked the talk, but not a lot of walking yet.  The offense is tailored for a medium arm QB with quick release, which is what Garrappolo profiles as.  A guy that can hit the intermediate areas, and is seasoned enough that he can recognize defenses at the line.  I don't see the changes implemented for Wilson because the personnel doesn't even fit.  You can't have Davis as WR1 and then surround him with two slot guys and expect the defense to respect the deep pass.  

I don't know if it'll improve with Becton but the running game is absolutely useless right now.  Either they improve with personnel, or they take deep shots to create more space for running lanes.  

[jgb]

26 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Well Saleh says that they really looked at the offense and changed it for Zach. In the summer Saleh said that they have a base "system" but it would be tailored for Zach. Not sure where the disconnect was but that is most definitely not what they did. The 2 TE sets and the bunch formations are not a fit for Zach. Our TEs suck and the windows all the bunch creates are very tight. Zach can fit it in there but he is learning so much and still developing timing that it is just a bad situation for him. Go 10 and 11 personnel, spread the offense out and let Zach ball in space.

Zach would probably do ok in NE's current system. Hell most rookie's would. That's designing a system for a rookie. Sure Mac isn't blowing up the stat sheets and NE isn't winning a ton of games but you can just see how Mac is gaining confidence each week. 

[munchmemory]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

Zach would probably do ok in NE's current system. Hell most rookie's would. That's designing a system for a rookie. Sure Mac isn't blowing up the stat sheets and NE isn't winning a ton of games but you can just see how Mac is gaining confidence each week. 

McDaniels might have been a disaster as a HC in Denver.  But he's a great OC.   He has Jones playing in a very supportive system, which they expand as the game slows down for him.   Jones' last TD pass was a kick ass call and play.

[jgb]

10 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

McDaniels might have been a disaster as a HC in Denver.  But he's a great OC.   He has Jones playing in a very supportive system, which they expand as the game slows down for him.   Jones' last TD pass was a kick ass call and play.

Belichick is untouchable and can play the slow game. But Saleh is as well in Year 1. They should completely strip down their offensive system and focus entirely on getting Zach in rhythm and building confidence. What exactly do they have to lose?

My hypothesis is as a first time HC with defensive background, Saleh probably sold the job to LaFleur as "you will be completely in charge of the offense without my meddling."  Saleh gonna have to buck up and tell LaFleur, "This year is not about showcasing your complex innovative system. I want the next game plan to solely focus on Zach's completion percentage and limiting turnovers. I do not care about winning the game. Let's see what happens."

[Jetluv58]

On 10/18/2021 at 4:26 PM, GangGreened said:

Mac Jones is the only QB from this class I’ve been impressed with at all

It’s his pace.

[kdels62]

Keep throwing Wilson to the fire! He’ll either make it work or he won’t. Scheme is mostly a lie that wears off after you’ve given out big contracts. 

[Dcat]

I only saw segments from one of his games and all they showed was trash.  It's good that the Bears' coaches are designing a scheme that fits him.

Do you hear that LaFleur...?   Saleh..? 

Helloooooo?  Anybody home McFly?

[FidelioJet]

18 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Keep throwing Wilson to the fire! He’ll either make it work or he won’t. Scheme is mostly a lie that wears off after you’ve given out big contracts. 

I think this is right and what the Jets brass are thinking.

They threw the entire playbook at him and letting him learn on the job - sticking to the base offense (even if the personnel and his talents don't fit it precisely)

The hope is, while he's having a hard time right now - he'll come out the other end stronger for it.  

In a year when expectations are low - this is the time to do it.  He'll learn the base system, get his timing and reads down and then eventually they'll bring in the proper personnel and he'll be able to be aggressive and open things up, if he can do the little things well.

Not only is the game moving too fast for him right now...he's completely in his own head making things worse.

To your point, he'll either get it or he won't.  I have no problem continuing to push him the way they are...Just as fans we should have patience.

I'm not sure it's the right strategy as opposed to easing him into the system and slowly learning.  But it's where they are.

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Zach would probably do ok in NE's current system. Hell most rookie's would. That's designing a system for a rookie. Sure Mac isn't blowing up the stat sheets and NE isn't winning a ton of games but you can just see how Mac is gaining confidence each week. 

That's the annoying thing. The "Shanhan offense" is supposed to be rookie friendly but not the version we are running.

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

That's the annoying thing. The "Shanhan offense" is supposed to be rookie friendly but not the version we are running.

LaFleur suffering from new coordinator "too clever by half disease." Wants his version of the system to be the star so he can be the next hot young HC candidate while missing forest from the trees. System means nothing if the QB running it looks like garbage.

[munchmemory]

We have a plethora of small slot receivers.  Can someone over at Atlantic Health please tell that putz LaFleur that it's okay to run quick slants.   Go back and watch the SF offense under Walsh.  You might actually learn something and help Zack.  Or else, keep having him throw deep routes and fail miserably. 

[kdels62]

7 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

That's the annoying thing. The "Shanhan offense" is supposed to be rookie friendly but not the version we are running.

Narrative. Trey Lance looked a mess when he was in. McVay made Goff work for 1 season. RG3 got injured but was only effective for 1 season. It took Rodgers a season to really figure it out. Jordan Love effectively sucks. 

Schemes built to be good for rookies don’t have legs in the NFL.

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

My hypothesis is as a first time HC with defensive background, Saleh probably sold the job to LaFleur as "you will be completely in charge of the offense without my meddling."  Saleh gonna have to buck up and tell LaFleur, "This year is not about showcasing your complex innovative system. I want the next game plan to solely focus on Zach's completion percentage and limiting turnovers. I do not care about winning the game. Let's see what happens."

I hope you are wrong. One of the big reasons I was excited for Saleh is that he was billed as a guy who cared about both sides of the ball. I remember them making a big deal about the fact that he played TE . . . He definitely wasn't going to be a glorified DC here . . . is what they said. 

Watching this offense has been so, so disappointing. I'm hoping this coaching staff took a good look at this offense over the bye. They just shouldn't be as bad as they have been. 

[bla bla bla]

[bla bla bla]

2 hours ago, win4ever said:

I'm not sure about the makeup of the team though, because that has been entirely confusing for me.  If you have a rookie QB pretty much anointed as QB 1, you need a guy that is known to install an offense, that fits the player.  Bills had Daboll cater the system to fit Allen, Roman catered the system to fit Jackson.  Steanski changed the system to fit Baker.  Even Lawrence is most comfortable in a horizontal spread, which is what Meyer runs.  Yet, we seem to be putting the wrong system for Wilson, or we don't have the talent to run the system.  

I do wonder how much of an impact losing coach Knapp was. He felt like the guy that was brought in to be the vet in the room. A lot is just a really young team and staff just trying to figure it out.

[Matt39]

59 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Kinda what I was seeing. I mean he shouldn’t be playing. Media bullied Nagy into playing him: it seemed. 

[Irish Jet]

Fields is terrible. 

[Gastineau Lives]

WHOOOO HOOOOOOOOO

[Gastineau Lives]

WHOOOOO HOOOOOO

[Matt39]

Fields has been terrible so far.

[munchmemory]

Today?  Fields looks awful.  Some on him.  But like us, they have a sh*t HC and bevy of coaches/players.  Like us, Chicago is going nowhere.

[RoadFan]

Can’t play QB in the NFL if your throwing motion has almost the same length as a golf swing.

[Gastineau Lives]

WHOOO HOOOO

[bostonmajet]

Chicago is getting a Pats over Jets type of beating. Down by 33 points and only scoring 3 in the first half. If the Bucks HC is as big of a scumbag as BB, they will win this by 50+ points in then end.

Fumbles, Ints, etc. He might as well be wearing green and white.

[Beerfish]

Fields is trash (3 fumbles 2 lost and 2 ints) but then again so are all the others in what was supposed to be a great QB draft.

NEVER start a new qb year one.  NEVER.

[Untouchable]

2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Fields is trash (3 fumbles 2 lost and 2 ints) but then again so are all the others in what was supposed to be a great QB draft.

NEVER start a new qb year one.  NEVER.

Sanchez brought something up recently (about damn time someone in the media did) that I’ve said for years.

Until that 2008 Matt Ryan/Joe Flacco class, it was commonplace for decades to sit a young QB for a year or even two.

Ever since that draft where both of those guys took their teams to the playoffs during their rookie campaigns, these dickhead coaches and GM’s act like you absolutely HAVE to start a rookie QB Day 1, or at least no later than 4-6 games into their rookie season.

It’s dumb 

I never really wanted to draft any of these QB’s after Lawrence was off the table, but it was going to happen, so I resigned myself to Wilson. At least the kid has a big arm, a quick release and throws a good deep ball. But the perfect scenario (other than walking away with Lawrence) would’ve been bringing in someone like Foles and letting Wilson sit and learn for a year.

[Icer]

I'd feel alot worse if Fields or Lance were lighting it up, but every rookie looks like sh*t other than Mac in the perfect landing spot

[Matt39]

Bears got legit bullied into playing Fields. Kid is shellshocked. 

[Beerfish]

Just now, Matt39 said:

Bears got legit bullied into playing Fields. Kid is shellshocked. 

This will be amusing over the next few days.  Almost all of the national media talking heads were just killing nagy over starting dalton over fields, just killing him and will now 100% change their minds and kill him for ruing fields.  all dumbasses.

[Grandy]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Bears got legit bullied into playing Fields. Kid is shellshocked. 

3 picks and 3 fumbles and the 4th just started. He's a talented guy and I hope he can pull it together, but these disasterpiece games were concerning in college. He could look amazing, even surgical at times with his accuracy. However when he was bad, he was badddd.

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

This will be amusing over the next few days.  Almost all of the national media talking heads were just killing nagy over starting dalton over fields, just killing him and will now 100% change their minds and kill him for ruing fields.  all dumbasses.

ESPN is state tv for the NFL and NBA players associations. It's legit unwatchable. The ex players and the new woke analysts kissing ass...it's so so bad. The Fields stuff has been bizarre.