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Rex Ryan has higher win percentage than Bill Belichick without Tom Brady.


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Rex Ryan : 65-68 (.489) Bill Belichick : 64-77(.454) @T0mShane It's also worth noting that Bill Belichick is a scumbag.  Discuss. 

It’s hard to find players like Tom Brady when you’re forcing your GM’s to draft you Quentin Copleses in every round.

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4 hours ago, jgb said:

Starting with Herm, every successive Jets HC has caused us to miss his predecessor. It would almost be impressive if Saleh was so bad he made us miss Gase.

I would normally say this is impossible, but we are talking about the Jets. 

Maybe we will be looking back nostalgically at Gase's legendary 6-2 finish in 2019 one or two years from now. 

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The Pats play tough, smart football and will probably smash us again next weekend, but they are just another team without Brady. And I don't really mean that in a derogatory fashion. In a given year, I could absolutely see Belichick taking them on a playoff run. Just like a lot of other teams could in any given year. 

He is a good coach with a good system and culture in place. But the era of annual division titles and first round byes is over. Brady was the magic sauce to the dynasty. 

In fact, Belichick looks like an idiot for not working things out with Brady and figuring out a way to keep him because he can obviously still play and they would still be a playoff team with him. 

 

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4 hours ago, jgb said:

Musing is not impatience.

I am curious though, why do you think Bowles was worse than Gase? Bowles will get another HC job soon -- if Arians retires this year he'll prob be the next Bucs coach. Gase never will be given another shot.

Gase already had 2 chances, Bowles won't get a third chance either.

Remember, Gase made the playoffs.  Miss off playoff since 2009 and only 1 of 2 since 2002 with the other being the year Brady was out for the year.

Also remember that the Jets won 4-5 games reach year of Bowles' last 3 seasons, they won 7 year 1 with Gase.

Both were awful but Bowles walked into a playoff roster against a weak schedule and couldn't get it done before the roster got old.

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3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Gase already had 2 chances, Bowles won't get a third chance either.

Remember, Gase made the playoffs.  Miss off playoff since 2009 and only 1 of 2 since 2002 with the other being the year Brady was out for the year.

Also remember that the Jets won 4-5 games reach year of Bowles' last 3 seasons, they won 7 year 1 with Gase.

Both were awful but Bowles walked into a playoff roster against a weak schedule and couldn't get it done before the roster got old.

What was Bowles' second chance? He's been a very good DC for a long time and he was HC of the Jets.

There is like a 99% chance he gets a second HC shot. Sooner rather than later, I'd wager.

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6 minutes ago, jgb said:

What was Bowles' second chance? He's been a very good DC for a long time and he was HC of the Jets.

There is like a 99% chance he gets a second HC shot. Sooner rather than later, I'd wager.

Tbh, based on some of the other guys who have gotten second chances, he absolutely deserves one. 

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4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Tbh, based on some of the other guys who have gotten second chances, he absolutely deserves one. 

Guys do learn. He's not a blowhard or arrogant. He might be the type who actually has the self awareness to apply what he learned from his time with the Jets. His issue was that he doesn't have the strong network that other HC candidates do and that showed with his near-league worst assistant coaching staff. Arians retiring and him stepping into a house that's already built would be the perfect situation for him.

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1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Look at what the Red Sox are doing.  They suck for 2 years, win the World Series, suck for 2 years, win the World Series.

Free agents.  The Jets can be a 10-win team next year with a flood of free agents.  Enough wildcard teams have made it to the Super Bowl and there is enough parity at the top of the league to say that we don't need to build some long-term vision.  We can just go for it every 2 years and then suck for 2 years and then go for it for 2 years and then suck for 2 years.  It's better than this "right way" or whatever we are doing now.  The Browns tried it this way for 30 years.  So did the Bills.  The Dolphins just wasted their last 5 seasons.  There is another way.  We should do it.  Sh'tty franchises like the Red Sox, Cubs, Blackhawks, and Buccaneers can break out of their Eeyore chains by throwing out conventional thinking and do it the other way-  buy it.

SAR I

Well, baseball is a bit different. The Red Sox hired dombrowski whose “thing” is to destroy any hope for the future in order to win now. They then hired Chaim Blum from the rays who planned on doing a joe Douglas but due to Alex Cora and some very shrewd pick ups they play out if their minds. Blum didn’t buy anyone since he’s been here, and he won’t.

im personally not a fan of cash man. He’s good, but he wants to be the rays AND has an unlimited budget, but hasn’t win anything since he last spent big money. 

The NFL isn’t the mlb, you can try and buy your way into the playoffs, but you have 16 games to make it work. If it doesn’t work you have at least three years of suck age. 
in the Jets case it’s been TEN. 
The Bucs are a bad example. They put everything together and then the owner played himself right into the best QB if all time. That QB lebroned the nfl and convinced some more guys to play with him. There isn’t another all time great QB that will come to us for money. We tried that with Favre and he got injured. It’s not as easy as you make it sound. 

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29 minutes ago, jgb said:

What was Bowles' second chance? He's been a very good DC for a long time and he was HC of the Jets.

There is like a 99% chance he gets a second HC shot. Sooner rather than later, I'd wager.

He will get another chance. He actually almost got the team to the playoffs with a journeyman QB who crapped the bed against a bad bills team. 

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1 minute ago, Wit said:

He will get another chance. He actually almost got the team to the playoffs with a journeyman QB who crapped the bed against a bad bills team. 

His big failure was in 2016 when it looked like the team was just going through the motions after the bad start. 

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52 minutes ago, jgb said:

What was Bowles' second chance? He's been a very good DC for a long time and he was HC of the Jets.

There is like a 99% chance he gets a second HC shot. Sooner rather than later, I'd wager.

He hasn't had it yet, you said Gase won't get abbey chance. My point was Bowles won't get a third chance either.  He'll likely get a second chance but Gase was significantly better in their first chances.

Brady has been responsible for many assistants getting head coach jobs that went on to fail without him.  

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22 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

His big failure was in 2016 when it looked like the team was just going through the motions after the bad start. 

His biggest failure was not having his team ready to play a dead Bills team with the playoffs on the line.  After that he was terrible throughout.

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21 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

His biggest failure was not having his team ready to play a dead Bills team with the playoffs on the line.  After that he was terrible throughout.

Agreed, but that team probably wasn't going anywhere, anyway. 

Fitz had a nice flash in the pan year but that wasn't sustainable. 

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6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

They reversed the gif v link function. Now you look like a 2x fool.

Rex Ryan steps over Adam Gase on his way to the fight.

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3 hours ago, Wit said:

Mike is literally a white flag. Not a better option. We weren’t making the playoffs this year with our QB, so why win meaningless games without him? I want to win this year WITH Zach so he can develop. If he’s out, it’s a worthless year. If you want him to sit with a clipboard, let it be with an elder statesman with actual playoff/super bowl experience that he can learn from, not younger guys that want to steal his job. 
 

I know rivers is retired, but theoretical paying him big money to sit on his ass to support those nine kids may be something he would have done 

Here's where I disagree with that idea. That tally of wins/losses without the starter aside, what another QB buys is credibility, and not throwing in the towel on developing other players.

This is a young team, not just a team with a young QB. If Wilson goes out there's still a need to assess what else the team has and what it doesn't. It's hard enough with a rookie who's mostly struggled thus far; it'd be harder still with White, who's not an NFL QB. He's not even a #2 QB. It's debatable that he's even a roster-worthy #3 QB seeing how long it took him to hold off Morgan, who's temporarily surviving by the skin of his teeth on the Panthers' PS. 

In the upcoming spring, there's no reason to have to guess at how badly we need to re-draft this or that position because everybody got a mulligan while the team trotted out far worse than Geno/Petty. Actually Geno's a good example of someone who does still allow assessment of the rest of the team because, while he's not a winner, he clearly can throw a football and has experience practicing in this system for some time. 

I can get behind not signing Minshew/Trubisky, but honestly I thought the bleh-meh veteran they'd bring in was Beathard (2 yrs $5MM from Jax) or Mullens (signed then waived by Phi, and now on Cleveland's PS). Both were >60% passers last year, can complete passes over 7 yards, and have multiple games starting experience in this offense not just pretending to go through the motions like Luke Falk. The cost differential to White is negligible (i.e. there isn't a player they won't be able to afford because they spent ~$2.5MM on the QB2 instead of ~$1MM for this one season.

And yes, while it's the job of the QBC to coach the QB, it is a help for a rookie to have a QB room with experienced teammates instead of someone who knows & has experienced even less than the rookie. 

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8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Here's where I disagree with that idea. That tally of wins/losses without the starter aside, what another QB buys is credibility, and not throwing in the towel on developing other players.

This is a young team, not just a team with a young QB. If Wilson goes out there's still a need to assess what else the team has and what it doesn't. It's hard enough with a rookie who's mostly struggled thus far; it'd be harder still with White, who's not an NFL QB. He's not even a #2 QB. It's debatable that he's even a roster-worthy #3 QB seeing how long it took him to hold off Morgan, who's temporarily surviving by the skin of his teeth on the Panthers' PS. 

In the upcoming spring, there's no reason to have to guess at how badly we need to re-draft this or that position because everybody got a mulligan while the team trotted out far worse than Geno/Petty. Actually Geno's a good example of someone who does still allow assessment of the rest of the team because, while he's not a winner, he clearly can throw a football and has experience practicing in this system for some time. 

I can get behind not signing Minshew/Trubisky, but honestly I thought the bleh-meh veteran they'd bring in was Beathard (2 yrs $5MM from Jax) or Mullens (signed then waived by Phi, and now on Cleveland's PS). Both were >60% passers last year, can complete passes over 7 yards, and have multiple games starting experience in this offense not just pretending to go through the motions like Luke Falk. The cost differential to White is negligible (i.e. there isn't a player they won't be able to afford because they spent ~$2.5MM on the QB2 instead of ~$1MM for this one season.

And yes, while it's the job of the QBC to coach the QB, it is a help for a rookie to have a QB room with experienced teammates instead of someone who knows & has experienced even less than the rookie. 

I can buy that. Credibility for other free agents to sign here.  I still think that if we win with it despite a rookie QB we gain even more credibility, but point taken. 

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1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

Agreed, but that team probably wasn't going anywhere, anyway. 

Fitz had a nice flash in the pan year but that wasn't sustainable. 

They weren't winning a SB but getting to the playoffs would have been huge.  The drought would be 5 years instead of 10, that's a big difference.

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2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

He hasn't had it yet, you said Gase won't get abbey chance. My point was Bowles won't get a third chance either.  He'll likely get a second chance but Gase was significantly better in their first chances.

Brady has been responsible for many assistants getting head coach jobs that went on to fail without him.  

Oh I see we are stacking speculation on top of soothsaying here. I have no opinion as to Bowles' career prospects when and if he's fired or quits from his next HC gig.

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uh-huh.  more rex talk.  and so?  rex also dismantled the jets.  i will agree that he brought them good successes early on but once left to his own devices he drove the team down.  i'm not sure why tanny was fired but i suspect rex played a role and then he brought down idzik.

maybe someone needs to make a pole of picking which jets coach.  include rex, bellichicken, groh, herm, mangini, gase, saleh.

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2 hours ago, jgb said:

Oh I see we are stacking speculation on top of soothsaying here. I have no opinion as to Bowles' career prospects when and if he's fired or quits from his next HC gig.

He was awful here for 4 years, we saw it day in and day out.  I don't dislike him, I hope he learned from that experience but the guy I saw as HC for the Jets was a disaster.  Good luck to him and whoever hires him.

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This will surely help us win on Sunday.  

SAR I
No matter what's discussed here, it'll have no impact on Sunday in either direction.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

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51 minutes ago, papz187 said:

Imagine if Rex had a top tier QB the success he'd of had?

Now imagine Belichick with Sanchez or Geno?

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
 

Rex, greatest head coach in nyj history. “If only”

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16 hours ago, nyjunc said:

He was awful here for 4 years, we saw it day in and day out.  I don't dislike him, I hope he learned from that experience but the guy I saw as HC for the Jets was a disaster.  Good luck to him and whoever hires him.

It can both be true that he was a bad coach here but yet is not worse than Gase. You said he was worse than Gase. I am genuinely curious why you believe that.

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13 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You really made me have to post this pic didn't you.

 

462644706.jpg.0.jpg

Rumor is he demanded an appearance fee to get on the podium after that game

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On 10/18/2021 at 10:54 AM, SAR I said:

Look at what the Red Sox are doing.  They suck for 2 years, win the World Series, suck for 2 years, win the World Series.

Free agents.  The Jets can be a 10-win team next year with a flood of free agents.  Enough wildcard teams have made it to the Super Bowl and there is enough parity at the top of the league to say that we don't need to build some long-term vision.  We can just go for it every 2 years and then suck for 2 years and then go for it for 2 years and then suck for 2 years.  It's better than this "right way" or whatever we are doing now.  The Browns tried it this way for 30 years.  So did the Bills.  The Dolphins just wasted their last 5 seasons.  There is another way.  We should do it.  Sh'tty franchises like the Red Sox, Cubs, Blackhawks, and Buccaneers can break out of their Eeyore chains by throwing out conventional thinking and do it the other way-  buy it.

SAR I

Yep - baseball is just like football.

Also, the Red Sox won world series with Cora in 2018; then Cora was removed because of sign stealing scandal, then Cora comes back and the Red Sox are playing well - Maybe, just maybe, he has something to do with it.

With the cap and the dead money, etc. it is difficult to build long term success by just loading up on FA. Also, often you get to sniff playoffs but don't make if very far. Mac tried it; then JD sort of tried it - There was a conscious decision to perform a full rebuild. It was planned. This is how the powerhouse teams are often built. We knew it was happening; we knew there was a youth movement; we knew drafting a rookie QB was going to be a struggle. To be shocked now and complain now that we are loosing and should have gone the FA route is a bit scam. And to state that the rebuild isn't working after 5 games is a bit of reach. 

You don't like the rebuild, got it; you don't like JD, got it; you don't like Saleh, got it. You want to go back to Fitzmagic and short term Vets and finish between 8 and 10 wins and never go anywhere - that is your choice. Personally, I prefer the rebuild and hope to build a real team. Either way, using the Red Sox as proof of FA buy a team is a huge reach and is flawed.

Either way, we have at least another year or two for JD and Saleh, so you might want to get used to it or find another team.

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7 hours ago, papz187 said:

Imagine if Rex had a top tier QB the success he'd of had?

You do realize he failed in Buffalo because of the defense he ran and not the offense, right?  Tyrod Taylor may not be anything special, but he and the Buffalo offense under Greg Roman had a fantastic season in 2015 and Tyrod reached the Pro Bowl as a result.  20 TDs/6 INTs, 64 % completions, 8.0 YPA, 99.4 QB Rating in a very run-first offense.  The offense was solid in 2016, too, but Rex ended up firing Roman early that season as a completely undeserved scapegoat, lol. 

This "just give him a QB!" myth about Rex needs to die.  He took Jim Schwartz's top 5 defense in Buffalo and ran it into the ground.  

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26 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

Yep - baseball is just like football.

Also, the Red Sox won world series with Cora in 2018; then Cora was removed because of sign stealing scandal, then Cora comes back and the Red Sox are playing well - Maybe, just maybe, he has something to do with it.

With the cap and the dead money, etc. it is difficult to build long term success by just loading up on FA. Also, often you get to sniff playoffs but don't make if very far. Mac tried it; then JD sort of tried it - There was a conscious decision to perform a full rebuild. It was planned. This is how the powerhouse teams are often built. We knew it was happening; we knew there was a youth movement; we knew drafting a rookie QB was going to be a struggle. To be shocked now and complain now that we are loosing and should have gone the FA route is a bit scam. And to state that the rebuild isn't working after 5 games is a bit of reach. 

You don't like the rebuild, got it; you don't like JD, got it; you don't like Saleh, got it. You want to go back to Fitzmagic and short term Vets and finish between 8 and 10 wins and never go anywhere - that is your choice. Personally, I prefer the rebuild and hope to build a real team. Either way, using the Red Sox as proof of FA buy a team is a huge reach and is flawed.

Either way, we have at least another year or two for JD and Saleh, so you might want to get used to it or find another team.

This theory that "8 to 10 wins" is somehow NFL purgatory is foolish, it's completely wrong.

10 wildcard teams made it to the Super Bowl since the format was invented in 1970.  That's 20% of Super Bowls featuring 1 team that was a wildcard.

Now, take Tom Brady's Patriots crazy amount of hogging appearances out of it, take into account that the NFL just added 2 more wildcard teams, add to that how many good young QB's we have now forcing more teams into wildcard position....

I think over the next 20 years you're going to see wildcard teams in Super Bowl's 30% of the time.

If you don't have a franchise quarterback to build around, screw it, build the lines in the draft only, then get trade draft picks for quality starters, and spend a ton of free agency money filling holes and go for broke.  You can get a 2-3 year run out of a team built that way (see 2009-2011 Jets) and get 3 shots as 9-11 win wildcard team.  When the run is over, dump everyone except the lines, spend 2 years sucking, and then go for it again.  Keep this cycle going, eventually you're going to get more playoff chances than the way we are doing it now.

SAR I

 

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3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

This theory that "8 to 10 wins" is somehow NFL purgatory is foolish, it's completely wrong.

10 wildcard teams made it to the Super Bowl since the format was invented in 1970.  That's 20% of Super Bowls featuring 1 team that was a wildcard.

Now, take Tom Brady's Patriots crazy amount of hogging appearances out of it, take into account that the NFL just added 2 more wildcard teams, add to that how many good young QB's we have now forcing more teams into wildcard position....

I think over the next 20 years you're going to see wildcard teams in Super Bowl's 30% of the time.

If you don't have a franchise quarterback to build around, screw it, build the lines in the draft only, then get trade draft picks for quality starters, and spend a ton of free agency money filling holes and go for broke.  You can get a 2-3 year run out of a team built that way (see 2009-2011 Jets) and get 3 shots as 9-11 win wildcard team.  When the run is over, dump everyone except the lines, spend 2 years sucking, and then go for it again.  Keep this cycle going, eventually you're going to get more playoff chances than the way we are doing it now.

SAR I

 

Some take the "all or nothing" mentality to assuage the sick feeling of how much entertaining football we have actually missed out on in the last 10 years. "Sure we sucked but not like we were winning a SB anyway so no harm no foul." 

Wrong. Foul. Big foul. Flagrant. Two shots and the ball.

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