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Rex Ryan has higher win percentage than Bill Belichick without Tom Brady.


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On 10/18/2021 at 7:20 AM, nyjunc said:

Rex also has 4 playoff wins to 1 vs Belichick without Brady including beating Belichick WITH Brady on the road.

Belichick's record without Brady is very similar to Adam Gase and both are scumbags.

added for clarity...

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Rex Ryan : 65-68 (.489) Bill Belichick : 64-77(.454) @T0mShane It's also worth noting that Bill Belichick is a scumbag.  Discuss. 

It’s hard to find players like Tom Brady when you’re forcing your GM’s to draft you Quentin Copleses in every round.

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9 minutes ago, jgb said:

Some take the "all or nothing" mentality to assuage the sick feeling of how much entertaining football we have actually missed out on in the last 10 years. "Sure we sucked but not like we were winning a SB anyway so no harm no foul." 

Wrong. Foul. Big foul. Flagrant. Two shots and the ball.

Exactly.  The 2015 team was fun.  We didn't win the Super Bowl, but 10 wins, OT victories over the Giants and Patriots, I'll take it.

NFL fans are only dreaming in December anyway.  You're either dreaming about a playoff chance or dreaming about a successful rebuild.  Better to dream about a longshot as a wildcard this year than dream about drafting the team of your dreams and making the playoffs in three years.

And the Jets are one of the tests that prove the theorem.  We did this in 1998, we did this in 2009, we did this in 2010, and we almost did this in 2000 and 2011.  No franchise quarterback.  Decently drafted linemen and a boatload of free agents filling holes.  3 AFC Championship Games.  If not for the wind in Denver and injuries at Indianapolis, we'd have made it to the Super Bowl twice using this method.  And we would have won it once, same as Drew Brees and "the right way" Saints.

SAR I

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3 hours ago, SAR I said:

This theory that "8 to 10 wins" is somehow NFL purgatory is foolish, it's completely wrong.

10 wildcard teams made it to the Super Bowl since the format was invented in 1970.  That's 20% of Super Bowls featuring 1 team that was a wildcard.

Now, take Tom Brady's Patriots crazy amount of hogging appearances out of it, take into account that the NFL just added 2 more wildcard teams, add to that how many good young QB's we have now forcing more teams into wildcard position....

I think over the next 20 years you're going to see wildcard teams in Super Bowl's 30% of the time.

If you don't have a franchise quarterback to build around, screw it, build the lines in the draft only, then get trade draft picks for quality starters, and spend a ton of free agency money filling holes and go for broke.  You can get a 2-3 year run out of a team built that way (see 2009-2011 Jets) and get 3 shots as 9-11 win wildcard team.  When the run is over, dump everyone except the lines, spend 2 years sucking, and then go for it again.  Keep this cycle going, eventually you're going to get more playoff chances than the way we are doing it now.

SAR I

 

Well, not sure any team we would build would actually make it to Super Bowl - it hadn't made playoffs in forever. My memory may be off, but you have to go back 4 GMs, and 4 HCs (Mikey T/Rex) since last appearance. And Rex did it with a rookie/2nd year QB.

Now, 4 GMs and 4 HCs later the Jets have decided to build the team a different way. Once the purge in players and coaching staff was done, most, if not all of us, knew we were in for a 2-4 win season, and hopefully competitive 7-10 wins the following year. If you don't like that approach, that is cool. But in reality, we are staying this course for the next couple of years.

I don't have a problem not being happy, but I do think it is wrong to start suggesting that we should change this or that (you don't do that 5 games into a rebuild), or assuming the Saleh and Zack are doomed because we have only beaten one team (which beat the bills last night), or assuming that you run an NFL team they way you run an MLB team (and ignore that they dropped and then re-added the manager). Even if they decided to change courses it would take years to rebuild the team the other way - so this season will be lost and so will next season, so might as well stay the course.

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39 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

(you don't do that 5 games into a rebuild)

OMG, this is Year 5 of the rebuild.

We are 5 games into a coaching change. The rebuild has been going on since 2016 and the current general manager inherited it already underway with a ton of cap space, a ton of draft capital, great draft positioning, and did nothing with it but run it into the ground. He has been here 30 goddamn months.  We are 3-18 with a team he built all by himself.

SAR I

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4 hours ago, SAR I said:

OMG, this is Year 5 of the rebuild.

We are 5 games into a coaching change. The rebuild has been going on since 2016 and the current general manager inherited it already underway with a ton of cap space, a ton of draft capital, great draft positioning, and did nothing with it but run it into the ground. He has been here 30 goddamn months.  We are 3-18 with a team he built all by himself.

SAR I

No, the attempt to prompt up a bad team with Vets has been happening for 4 years, and we are 5 games into the real rebuild. And, let's be fair, 2.5 of it was with a different GM, and only 5 games with the HC. 2-14 was with Darnold, a bunch of ailing vets, and some prima donnas and a lot of dead cap money that went to Vets the previous GM used to try to prop up a bad team with no depth.

We tried to rebuild and win which didn't work - we tried it with the past GM and HC. We are 5 games into this rebuild - you want to be unhappy be unhappy. sorry man. I am enjoying watching this team for the first time in 4 years.

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On 10/18/2021 at 6:54 AM, Irish Jet said:

Rex Ryan : 65-68 (.489)

Bill Belichick : 64-77(.454)

@T0mShane

It's also worth noting that Bill Belichick is a scumbag. 

Discuss. 

How many SB’s did he win with him?

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The difference is BB will probably keep his job without Brady longer than Rex did for his whole jets career. When you show that much success, you are given much more time to turn things around. Belichick could probably do really badly for multiple seasons before possibly getting kicked

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8 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

How many SB’s did he win with him?

For all of the records, Super Bowls, and other accolades that Tom Brady has earned over his storied career, his greatest accomplishment is that he made a genius out of a jackass...

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8 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

How many SB’s did he win with him?

Both have zero Superbowls as a HC without Tom Brady at QB which is the premise of this thread. 

Belichick is 1-1 in the playoffs without Tom Brady. (.500) 

Ryan is 4–2 in the playoffs without Tom Brady. (.667)

Take away the GOAT QB and Ryan comes out on top every time. Who knew Tom Brady vs Geno Smith would make such a difference. 

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24 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Both have zero Superbowls as a HC without Tom Brady at QB which is the premise of this thread. 

Belichick is 1-1 in the playoffs without Tom Brady. (.500) 

Ryan is 4–2 in the playoffs without Tom Brady. (.667)

Take away the GOAT QB and Ryan comes out on top every time. Who knew Tom Brady vs Geno Smith would make such a difference. 

Serious question: in Brady’s first playoff game (the snow game against the raiders) do you think the game plan put Brady in a position to succeed?  I remember them asking mumbles about the running game before kickoff and he said “no, we’re going to throw the ball, you can see between the flakes”

I don’t think he had any 7 step drops in that whole game. it was quick misdirections and screens and draw plays out of the sh*t gun. The Raiders were off balance most of the game. It was a great game plan and Brady was an unknown second year player. 
 

you know if that was Rex coaching it would be  1 or 2 cracks In the line (depending on Rex’s secret weapon Tebow) and 7 step drop or draw play on 3rd and long.
 

 

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38 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Both have zero Superbowls as a HC without Tom Brady at QB which is the premise of this thread. 

Belichick is 1-1 in the playoffs without Tom Brady. (.500) 

Ryan is 4–2 in the playoffs without Tom Brady. (.667)

Take away the GOAT QB and Ryan comes out on top every time. Who knew Tom Brady vs Geno Smith would make such a difference. 

Belicheck has like 57 rings with Brady Rex zero with ANYONE.  Case closed boys.

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9 minutes ago, BP said:

Serious question: in Brady’s first playoff game (the snow game against the raiders) do you think the game plan put Brady in a position to succeed?  I remember them asking mumbles about the running game before kickoff and he said “no, we’re going to throw the ball, you can see between the flakes”

I don’t think he had any 7 step drops in that whole game. it was quick misdirections and screens and draw plays out of the sh*t gun. The Raiders were off balance most of the game. It was a great game plan and Brady was an unknown second year player. 
 

you know if that was Rex coaching it would be  1 or 2 cracks In the line (depending on Rex’s secret weapon Tebow) and 7 step drop or draw play on 3rd and long.
 

 

Pretty weird point to make when Rex used a 1st/2nd year Mark Sanchez very effectively in the playoffs. If we're talking about effective game plans then you have to give credit to a guy who won against Rivers, Manning and Brady on the road. But yeah Rex is definitely more of a pure defensive guy anyways - I think the relevant hypothetical is combining a Rex defence with Tom Brady's offensive efficiency. That would be pretty scary. 

Whether Brady was unknown or not is pretty irrelevant - he was still Tom f*cking Brady. 

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7 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Pretty weird point to make when Rex used a 1st/2nd year Mark Sanchez very effectively in the playoffs. If we're talking about effective game plans then you have to give credit to a guy who won against Rivers, Manning and Brady on the road. But yeah Rex is definitely more of a pure defensive guy anyways - I think the relevant hypothetical is combining a Rex defence with Tom Brady's offensive efficiency. That would be pretty scary. 

Whether Brady was unknown or not is pretty irrelevant - he was still Tom f*cking Brady. 

So you don’t think the coaching staff had anything to do with the development of Tom Brady? Or that it didn’t matter what game plan they had in a snow game? Gotcha 

:rl: 

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3 minutes ago, BP said:

So you don’t think the coaching staff had anything to do with the development of Tom Brady? Or that it didn’t matter what game plan they had in a snow game? Gotcha 

:rl: 

No one said that. Strawmanning.

You made your point with an individual game plan in a playoff game when there are multiple examples of Rex having effective game plans in playoff games, including one against Belichick and Brady. 

Whether Brady becomes what he was without Belichick is pure speculation - It's no more obvious he'd fail without BB than it is than Mark Sanchez would succeed somewhere else. I doubt he becomes anything less than great even without him. He clearly doesn't need him anymore whereas Belichick looks pretty lost without his all time great. If one was carrying the other it's not hard to see which one it was. 

If anything I'd argue Brady was probably pretty underrated early in his career precisely because the Pats surrounded him with trash and mediocrity. It's no surprise the "system QB" nonsense went out the window the second Brady had a better WR than Deion f*cking Branch to throw to. But yeah let's call Belichick a genius for getting the best out of the greatest ever to play, a guy he adjudged less effective than Drew Bledsoe months prior. 

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2 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

No one said that. Strawmanning.

You made your point with an individual game plan in a playoff game when there are multiple examples of Rex having effective game plans in playoff games, including one against Belichick and Brady. 

Whether Brady becomes what he was without Belichick is pure speculation - It's no more obvious he'd fail without BB than it is than Mark Sanchez would succeed somewhere else. I doubt he becomes anything less than great even without him. He clearly doesn't need him anymore whereas Belichick looks pretty lost without his all time great. If one was carrying the other it's not hard to see which one it was. 

If anything I'd argue Brady was probably pretty underrated early in his career precisely because the Pats surrounded him with trash and mediocrity. It's no surprise the "system QB" nonsense went out the window the second Brady had a better WR than Deion f*cking Branch to throw to. But yeah let's call Belichick a genius for getting the best out of the greatest ever to play, a guy he adjudged less effective than Drew Bledsoe months prior. 

Lol it was just one game?
 

ok, with 50 something seconds left in regulation time in the super bowl and an unproven Brady and the game tied the Patriots come out passing after John madden said “they’re gonna sit on the ball and go to OT” 

they won the sb on those decisions before either one (Belichick or Brady) were considered the GOAT. It’s a shame REx has never been in a position like that with Sanchez. He could have in 2010, but he was too busy celebrating the Patriots win well into prep week with the Steelers and it showed. Numbers are just that, numbers lol

 

 

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9 minutes ago, BP said:

Lol it was just one game?
 

ok, with 50 something seconds left in regulation time in the super bowl and an unproven Brady and the game tied the Patriots come out passing after John madden said “they’re gonna sit on the ball and go to OT” 

they won the sb on those decisions before either one (Belichick or Brady) were considered the GOAT. It’s a shame REx has never been in a position like that with Sanchez. He could have in 2010, but he was too busy celebrating the Patriots win well into prep week with the Steelers and it showed. Numbers are just that, numbers lol

 

 

Less than 30 seconds left against the Colts down 2 on the road. Jets are in FG range. They could do what Herm did and play keep ball but instead they took a shot to Braylon to make it a chip shot - So Rex has been in that position and responded with the W. That's with Mark Sanchez playing badly so lord knows what we would have done with Tom Brady. Probably don't even get to that point - would likely have playing at home and would have steamrolled them. 

Perception is irrelevant. Brady's greatness is what it is whether it was known or not. You can't just accredit his success to Belichick because it's convenient to you. He's had ample opportunities to have success without Brady - More games than Rex had in his career - And he's failed every single time. It's QB driven league - Brady took a sorry franchise that hadn't came close to success in nearly 20 years and instantly wins them a championship. It's all about the QB's - If you have a great one you'll be great. If Rex had Brady he'd still be here. 

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Just now, Irish Jet said:

Less than 30 seconds left against the Colts down 2 on the road. Jets are in FG range. They could do what Herm did and play keep ball but instead they took a shot to Braylon to make it a chip shot - So Rex has been in that position and responded with the W. That's with Mark Sanchez playing badly so lord knows what we would have done with Tom Brady. Probably don't even get to that point - would likely have playing at home and would have steamrolled them. 

Perception is irrelevant. Brady's greatness is what it is whether it was known or not. You can't just accredit his success to Belichick because it's convenient to you. He's had ample opportunities to have success without Brady - More games than Rex had in his career - And he's failed every single time. It's QB driven league - Brady took a sorry franchise that hadn't came close to success in nearly 20 years and instantly wins them a championship. It's all about the QB's - If you have a great one you'll be great. If Rex had Brady he'd still be here. 

Ok, here’s the cherry on top

 

Were the Jets ready to play against the Steelers in the first half of the 2010 AFC championship game against the Steelers? 
 

24-0 and they were not ready to play. See them numbers?
 

24-0 in the biggest game in Rexs career. Wait, let me repeat that one more time. 24-0 in the first half. That ******* game still pisses me off to this day.

 

Do you think REx had the Jets ready to play in the biggest game of his career? Or was he still hungover from beating the Patriots? the Jets should have won the sb that year had the coach had them ready to play. The Steelers were not that good.

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12 minutes ago, BP said:

Ok, here’s the cherry on top

 

Were the Jets ready to play against the Steelers in the first half of the 2010 AFC championship game against the Steelers? 
 

24-0 and they were not ready to play. See them numbers?
 

24-0 in the biggest game in Rexs career. Wait, let me repeat that one more time. 24-0 in the first half. That ******* game still pisses me off to this day.

 

Do you think REx had the Jets ready to play in the biggest game of his career? Or was he still hungover from beating the Patriots? the Jets should have won the sb that year had the coach had them ready to play. The Steelers were not that good.

Rex Ryan is the cocaine of HCs. If you need to win one game as a huge underdog he very well might be your guy. But oh boy will you pay for it the next day.

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15 minutes ago, BP said:

Ok, here’s the cherry on top

 

Were the Jets ready to play against the Steelers in the first half of the 2010 AFC championship game against the Steelers? 
 

24-0 and they were not ready to play. See them numbers?
 

24-0 in the biggest game in Rexs career. Wait, let me repeat that one more time. 24-0 in the first half. That ******* game still pisses me off to this day.

 

Do you think REx had the Jets ready to play in the biggest game of his career? Or was he still hungover from beating the Patriots? the Jets should have won the sb that year had the coach had them ready to play. The Steelers were not that good.

I mean Bill Belichick once blew a 21-3 lead over the Colts at the same stage if you want to play that game. With Tom Brady no less. It's the NFL - momentum is a bitch, especially with a second year QB who was all but out of the league 5 years later. 

And there's zero chance we're even in the title game without Rex. He overseen the group that was forced to carry that team due to having a poor QB. Put Brady on that roster and they don't even go to Pittsburgh - They would have had home field all the way through to the Superbowl.

Mark Sanchez would have been the worst QB to win a Superbowl in the last 30 years and it wouldn't be close.

Super Bowl 27. Troy Aikman (MVP), 4 TDs
Super Bowl 28. Troy Aikman (Emmitt Smith), O TDs
Super Bowl 29. Steve Young (MVP), 6 TDs
Super Bowl 30. Troy Aikman (Larry Brown), 1 TD
Super Bowl 31. Brett Favre (Desmond Howard), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 32. John Elway (Terrell Davis), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 33. John Elway (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 34. Kurt Warner (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 35. Trent Dilfer (Ray Lewis), 1 TD
Super Bowl 36. Tom Brady (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 37. Brad Johnson (Dexter Jackson), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 38. Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 39. Tom Brady (Deion Branch), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 40. Ben Roethlisberger (Hines Ward), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 41. Peyton Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 42. Eli Manning (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 43: Ben Roethlisberger (Santonio Holmes), 1 TD
Super Bowl 44: Drew Brees (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 45: Aaron Rogers (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 46: Eli Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 47: Joe Flacco (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 48: Russell Wilson (Malcolm Smith), 2TDs
Super Bowl 49: Tom Brady (MVP), 4TDs
Super Bowl 50: Peyton Manning (Von Miller), 0TDs
Super Bowl 51: Tom Brady (MVP), 2TDs
Super Bowl 52: Nick Foles (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 53: Tom Brady (Julian Edelman), 0TDs
Super Bowl 54: Patrick Mahomes (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 55: Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs

Rex was performing miracles with garbage at the only position that matters. Just look at that f*cking list. They had no business competing like they did - No business winning a Superbowl.

The only bad QB there was Trent Dilfer and they needed one of the greatest defences ever to compensate, one Rex happened to be apart of. Brad Johnson needed an all time great defence. Nick Foles and Joe Flacco randomly turned into Joe Montana for a few games - Even then they were all much better than Sanchez throughout their career. Everyone else is a Hall Of Famer. It's the primary need for a Superbowl winning team and the Jets had garbage. 

QB driven league - Belichick without Brady is just another mediocre disciplinarian losing more games than he wins. 

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Just now, AmericanHistoryX said:

I don’t get this argument. Doesn’t BB get credit for identifying and developing Brady from a 6th round pick to GOAT? 

 

 

Yeah sure. He was so confident that Brady was an all time great in the 6th round that he took Antwan Harris 12 picks before.

Listen to yourself. 

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10 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

QB driven league - Belichick without Brady is just another mediocre disciplinarian losing more games than he wins. 

Basically describes every HC without a QB. I posted earlier in this thread that Walsh was under .400 in games without Montana or Young.

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Just now, jgb said:

Basically describes every HC without a QB. I posted earlier in this thread that Walsh was under .400 in games without Montana or Young.

Minus Joe Gibbs

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On 10/19/2021 at 10:21 AM, jgb said:

It can both be true that he was a bad coach here but yet is not worse than Gase. You said he was worse than Gase. I am genuinely curious why you believe that.

He won 5, 5 and 4 games his last 3 years here.  Gase won 7 his first year here.  Bowles had a veteran, playoff caliber roster year 1 against a very easy schedule and couldn't get to the playoffs.  Gase never had much talent to work with.

 

Both were terrible but we suffered with Bowles for 4 years vs only 2 for Gass

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3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

He won 5, 5 and 4 games his last 3 years here.  Gase won 7 his first year here.  Bowles had a veteran, playoff caliber roster year 1 against a very easy schedule and couldn't get to the playoffs.  Gase never had much talent to work with.

 

Both were terrible but we suffered with Bowles for 4 years vs only 2 for Gass

Sounds like your quibble is with the Weiner Twins for sticking with Bowles too long. In no universe is he a worse coach that Gase.

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4 minutes ago, jgb said:

Sounds like your quibble is with the Weiner Twins for sticking with Bowles too long. In no universe is he a worse coach that Gase.

Gase made the playoffs with a backup QB, he was 5-1 head to head against Bowles.  Gase was terrible but still a much better head coach than Bowles

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Just now, nyjunc said:

Gase made the playoffs with a backup QB, he was 5-1 head to head against Bowles.  Gase was terrible but still a much better head coach than Bowles

I wish we were NFL owners and you owned my team’s rival.

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