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Sadly, I admit to feeling relief/validation in light of Darnold's struggles.


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2 hours ago, kdels62 said:

Sam Darnold has never beaten the Pats. 

He was probably so very thankful to head to the NFC where he only has to face Belichick once every 4 years.

Unfortunately for him that "every 4th year" fell on 2021.  November 7th will be fun.

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Moving on from Sam was the correct decision regardless of what Zach becomes.  Perhaps we should have picked a different QB at #2 or even brought in a veteran stopgap, but Sam was not the long ter

It's almost as if having CMC in there made Sam look good.  

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Suddenly without CMC, the entire team looks terrible.  The receivers can't catch a lick, the OL doesn't look great, and even the defense looks gasses out there.

Wonder why??

Defenses with CMAC in the game

Shocked Scaredy Cat GIF by TikTok

Defenses when CMAC is out

tigers GIF

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6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Hey, better late than never to come to the right side.  I was getting worried about Paradis there for a second.  He seemed firmly in the "Darnold isn't that bad" crew.  

Lets be clear though, I never identified as a big Darnold guy ....Don't think I even said "he wasn't that bad"

I simply advocated to punt addressing the QB position another year.  Win-win, Darnold sinks or swims and we get to trade back and give the roster some draft-love.... Guy called Kyle Pitts was out there at TE (dunno if you've seen our TEs recently)

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1 minute ago, Paradis said:

Lets be clear though, I never identified as a big Darnold guy ....Don't think I even said "he wasn't that bad"

I simply advocated to punt addressing the QB position another year.  Win-win, Darnold sinks or swims and we get to trade back and give the roster some draft-love.... Guy called Kyle Pitts was out there at TE (dunno if you've seen our TEs recently)

 

13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Zach Wilson is a separate item.  Moving on from Darnold would have been the right move regardless of which QB we went with next.

In hindsight, I'm definitely a "we should have drafted Pitts and brought in Trubisky/Minshew/Tyrod" guy at the moment.  Hopefully Wilson proves me wrong.  But any end result where we kept Darnold and sacrificed the draft capital we got back for him would have been the wrong move.  Those picks from Carolina are looking awfully good now that Carolina is 3-3 and a virtual lock for a sub-.500 finish.

 

Pitts + veteran QB:  Solid move.

Pitts + keeping Darnold:  Absolutely not.  

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9 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Lets be clear though, I never identified as a big Darnold guy ....Don't think I even said "he wasn't that bad"

I simply advocated to punt addressing the QB position another year.  Win-win, Darnold sinks or swims and we get to trade back and give the roster some draft-love.... Guy called Kyle Pitts was out there at TE (dunno if you've seen our TEs recently)

If only we had a QB drafted the year prior. But such is life. Grab 2-3 TEs this next offseason and call it a day.

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6 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Wilson threw 4 INTS in that game....

Which guarantees that Darnold would have beaten the Pats how exactly?  

Other than to just say it

But even though it doesnt make an ounce of sense, youre going to neg rep it to make yourself feel good or something

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22 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Pitts + veteran QB:  Solid move.

Pitts + keeping Darnold:  Absolutely not.  

Honestly, i would have been pretty indifferent to either. For me anyway, it was always about whether spending #2 on QB vs trading back/addressing the roster and waiting another year to start that QB contract... that's become such a relevant talking point for GMs now.

14 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

If only we had a QB drafted the year prior. But such is life. Grab 2-3 TEs this next offseason and call it a day.

yea old news now.

I thought it was particularly apropos for Pitts to announce himself to the NFL vs the Jets. My Soul is again, impotent for another 2-3 years. 

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3 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

actually with Darnold they prob beat NE and Atlanta.....

What would that mean exactly if Darnold is not the future QB of the Jets going forward (had the Jets kept him)?  A 6-8 win season and drafting who at QB in the 2022 draft?  What if the top QBs go before that?  Why was taking Wilson a bad gamble, but drafting QB whoever in 2022 at pick 10-20 is the smart move?  When and how do the Jets obtain a franchise QB in the future? It's not like going shopping for something you need. The shelves are not stocked with franchise QBs.  When a team has a top 5 pick and there are QBs on the board, you draft one because you may not get the chance again.  Or did you want to play veteran scrap heap QB roulette year after year and hope for a few years of a Testaverde or Stafford type (if you outbid the other 10 or so teams that want a QB too).

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56 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Like I said in the other thread, it's too early to make predictions but the thing about the Josh Allen example that I feel like people are missing out on here, is that Josh Allen wasnt the worst QB in the NFL his rookie season.  He was bad and didnt look to have next level passing abilities but he wasnt just the flat out worst QB in the NFL.  Zach is the worst QB in the NFL.  And that's scary.  How often does you see the worst QB in the NFL suddenly figure it out?  Not saying it cant happen but it never has before. 

 

Great post. I read this stuff a lot. Not just that Allen was truly awful as a rookie but that he was in his second year too. It's just nonsense. As a rookie he had some truly awful games for sure, but he had games where you could see how talented he was. They finished 6-10 which isn't bad when you consider how bad his offensive supporting cast was. It was beyond awful. He was one of those young guys who would drag his team up the field.

Second year started bad and then after the pats game where he got knocked cold he was great and let them to the playoffs. 

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[Rhule] "Now when I say Sam's not playing well what does that mean? It means the offensive line's not getting it done for him, the running backs aren't getting it done for him; everyone on offense, every receiver, every back, every o-lineman, every tight end, their job is to help our quarterback play well. And we are not getting that done."

https://www.panthers.com/news/the-day-after-matt-rhule-looking-for-a-redefined-offense

 

If this is their outlook on Sam, then he's not the franchise QB they were hoping for. 

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37 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Honestly, i would have been pretty indifferent to either. For me anyway, it was always about whether spending #2 on QB vs trading back/addressing the roster and waiting another year to start that QB contract... that's become such a relevant talking point for GMs now.

Like Joe Willie implied later, the big issue with this is that you probably won't be drafting at 2.  So next year, you have Kyle Pitts and whatever other goodies you were able to land, but you're still looking for a QB, and now you're drafting closer to the middle of the round...

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5 hours ago, Paradis said:

I was much more on the fence than some of you about pulling the plug on Darnold, for reasons we've discussed 10 to the 100th power times here.... I was more - At least give it a year under Rob, trade back, grab Pitts etc etc stock the cupboards blah blah..

But reading more and more of this has helped put Sam and the whole thing firmly in the rear view mirror --

 

Le’Veon Bell is averaging 2.4 yards per carry, which is to say that Adam Gase was martyred for Mike Maccagnan’s sins.

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1 hour ago, thshadow said:

Like Joe Willie implied later, the big issue with this is that you probably won't be drafting at 2.  So next year, you have Kyle Pitts and whatever other goodies you were able to land, but you're still looking for a QB, and now you're drafting closer to the middle of the round...

If you look at recent history most of the top QBs haven't come from the top 5 anyway and there's still a question on weather Wilson really was the 2nd choice in this class or that was partially a media creation.   The Jets would have had plenty of opportunity to draft a QB in the next 2 drafts.  I'm not saying they did the right or wrong thing but draft order in this situation doesn't play a role for me.

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1 hour ago, Lith said:

 Results may be marginally better becuase he has a better supporting cast, but still, despite the good start to the season, he is the 28th ranked starting QB by passer rating.  Ranked higher only than Wilson, Mills, Fields and Lawrence.  4 rookies.

He is 24 years old.  I guess its still possible, but not many guys get a 3rd chance.

I think this says it all - He's 6 games into his 4th season as an NFL starter (with 44 career starts under his belt) and the only guys he's ranked ahead of as a passer are 4 rookies. 

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6 hours ago, Paradis said:

I was much more on the fence than some of you about pulling the plug on Darnold, for reasons we've discussed 10 to the 100th power times here.... I was more - At least give it a year under Rob, trade back, grab Pitts etc etc stock the cupboards blah blah..

But reading more and more of this has helped put Sam and the whole thing firmly in the rear view mirror --

 

welcome to the club..lol

and imagine the noise the media would make if Sam was 5-1 with 15 TDs and 3 INTs.. JD and Saleh don't need that. we make enough noise ourselves.. lol

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1 hour ago, Lith said:

I guess I feel validation more than relief.  I always thought Sam had some talent (still do), but he was handled terribly.  I still think he can resurrect his career, but he needs time to re-learn the game.  He was so lost last year, poor decisions, did not see the field well, no pocket presence, inaccurate, slow through progressions.  I really thought he needed to go somewhere as a back-up.  Take a season or two to re-learn how to play QB in the NFL. 

Going directly to another team as the presumed starter was the worst that could have happened to him.  He is still the same guy with the same flaws.  Results may be marginally better becuase he has a better supporting cast, but still, despite the good start to the season, he is the 28th ranked starting QB by passer rating.  Ranked higher only than Wilson, Mills, Fields and Lawrence.  4 rookies.

He is 24 years old.  I guess its still possible, but not many guys get a 3rd chance.


Before the season I said his upside in Carolina would be QB25.

Many scoffed at that.  

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5 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I'm just being honest.

1) I don't like what I see. Kid has serious flaws.

2) How many QBs really struggle out the gate and end up being great these days? Josh Allen is really the only guy. Most of these kids (Mahomes, Watson, Lamar, Murray, Herbert, Burrow) can play immediately and the ones that can't (Trubisky, Darnold, Rosen, Jones, Haskins, Tua) usually don't get there. Baker looked good early but isn't looking like the guy.

I'm not giving up on him at all. I hope he works out and I think we're locked into him for three full seasons. I just don't get a good feeling about him based on these first few games.

Mahomes didn’t play immediately. Reid sat his ass all season long until one garbage time game.

Ditto Rodgers. Alex Smith, drafted ahead of Rodgers, sucked for years.

Tannehill’s first 5 games he had 3 TDs and 6 picks and they weren’t installing a new offense & he didn’t have nearly as many free rushers nor dropped passes nor a rookie OC.

Stafford 3 TDs 7 INTs in his first 5 starts, and 3 of his next 5 games after that were atrocious (including throwing 9 picks in 2 of them).

Brady barely made the roster as a rookie. Brees saw action in 1 game. Both were healthy as rookies. Both threw 80,000 regular season passing yards.

The goal is to succeed in the face of adversity, not use it as an excuse forever, but he’s a rookie in a crap situation none of the above had to contend with. Let’s see what he does as things start to calm down a bit. 

No one’s going to want to give him 3 years of chances. Few will want to see him get even 2 if he looks like this all season long. 

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5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Pitts + veteran QB:  Solid move.

Pitts + keeping Darnold:  Absolutely not.  

Would’ve loved to have drafted Pitts and started Trubisky to 7 wins for the next 4 years… I don’t understand the fascination with riding mediocre QB play to mediocre records. 

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:


Before the season I said his upside in Carolina would be QB25.

Many scoffed at that.  

When he gets McCaffrey back, maybe he moves up to 24.

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25 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Would’ve loved to have drafted Pitts and started Trubisky to 7 wins for the next 4 years… I don’t understand the fascination with riding mediocre QB play to mediocre records. 

Because I’d like to be entertained occasionally by Jets football. 

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5 hours ago, JiFapono said:

Like I said in the other thread, it's too early to make predictions but the thing about the Josh Allen example that I feel like people are missing out on here, is that Josh Allen wasnt the worst QB in the NFL his rookie season.  He was bad and didnt look to have next level passing abilities but he wasnt just the flat out worst QB in the NFL.  Zach is the worst QB in the NFL.  And that's scary.  How often does you see the worst QB in the NFL suddenly figure it out?  Not saying it cant happen but it never has before. 

ZW’s college film is excellent.

Wilson was very accurate the final season at BYU.  I have no explanation for the really wild throws, but am not overly concerned yet.  My best guess is the game is still too fast for him.  

Wilson has immense talent.  He escapes like a magician, has a lighting release, and throws an easy ball.  

I think when he starts to recognize what is happening before the snap and stops looking for chunk plays every time, we are going to enjoy watching him play.

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:


Before the season I said his upside in Carolina would be QB25.

Many scoffed at that.  

I remember you wanted to bet on this.   There were a couple of people willing but too many stipulations.

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47 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Would’ve loved to have drafted Pitts and started Trubisky to 7 wins for the next 4 years… I don’t understand the fascination with riding mediocre QB play to mediocre records. 

Trubisky would have only been a 1-year bridge QB/rental in my plan.  2 years at most.  We'd be needing to draft a QB within the next class or 2.

But I mean if we wanted to tank again with Morgan/White at QB I'd be good with that option too.  

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25 minutes ago, jgb said:

Because I’d like to be entertained occasionally by Jets football. 

And at least in that instance we'd know Pitts was going to be making some plays, since he'd have at least a decent veteran QB throwing to him.  

It's much easier to evaluate the rest of the offense when a capable QB is under center.  Hence why many of us want to give Denzel Mims a chance.  He looked fine when paired with Flacco.  

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57 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Would’ve loved to have drafted Pitts and started Trubisky to 7 wins for the next 4 years… I don’t understand the fascination with riding mediocre QB play to mediocre records. 

so 7 wins every year for 4 years is good to you? that to me is mediocre. 

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12 minutes ago, doitny said:

so 7 wins every year for 4 years is good to you? that to me is mediocre. 

That’s my point I hate the idea of signing and going with a mediocre QB

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