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Sadly, I admit to feeling relief/validation in light of Darnold's struggles.


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Moving on from Sam was the correct decision regardless of what Zach becomes.  Perhaps we should have picked a different QB at #2 or even brought in a veteran stopgap, but Sam was not the long ter

It's almost as if having CMC in there made Sam look good.  

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1 hour ago, thshadow said:

Like Joe Willie implied later, the big issue with this is that you probably won't be drafting at 2.  So next year, you have Kyle Pitts and whatever other goodies you were able to land, but you're still looking for a QB, and now you're drafting closer to the middle of the round...

it's not that static. Every new league year we see those "expected" outcomes rewritten.... but yes, you'd have to weigh in just how much you LOVE Wilson. If I was JD i would have made the O-staff sell me on why this guy is sooo good that we can't afford to pass on him for the betterment of the team.

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7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Those picks from Carolina are looking awfully good now that Carolina is 3-3 and a virtual lock for a sub-.500 finish.

I'm not 100% convinced they will finish below .500. Their schedule is as soft as a schedule can be. I think their D can definitely win some of their upcoming games. 

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And at least in that instance we'd know Pitts was going to be making some plays, since he'd have at least a decent veteran QB throwing to him.  

It's much easier to evaluate the rest of the offense when a capable QB is under center.  Hence why many of us want to give Denzel Mims a chance.  He looked fine when paired with Flacco.  

He looks good when Wilson throws him the ball, too!

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7 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

What would that mean exactly if Darnold is not the future QB of the Jets going forward (had the Jets kept him)?  A 6-8 win season and drafting who at QB in the 2022 draft?  What if the top QBs go before that?  Why was taking Wilson a bad gamble, but drafting QB whoever in 2022 at pick 10-20 is the smart move?  When and how do the Jets obtain a franchise QB in the future? It's not like going shopping for something you need. The shelves are not stocked with franchise QBs.  When a team has a top 5 pick and there are QBs on the board, you draft one because you may not get the chance again.  Or did you want to play veteran scrap heap QB roulette year after year and hope for a few years of a Testaverde or Stafford type (if you outbid the other 10 or so teams that want a QB too).

This is what has to be answered if you thought the Jets should have left the QB position to Darnold/vet and drafted other skill positions--what is the plan for landing a long term solution at QB? Who is the quality vet dying to come to the Jets? What's the plan to catch a QB in next year's draft? 

I get that Wilson has not had five great games and there is still room to think the Jets picked the wrong guy; however, the opportunity to draft second in a draft full of potential franchise QBs when installing a new offensive gave the team the best opportunity to pick who they saw as the best QB for what they are trying to build (minus the first pick). I don't see how they could easily toss that away from a hope that the same opportunity exists next year. Whether you think there will be better candidates next year isn't enough--you have to know how to the team gets into a position to get that guy. 

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1 hour ago, Maxman said:

I liked Sam, I rooted for Sam and I think Gase ruined Sam. That said the Jets had to move on and seeing Darnold this year shows they were right in doing so. Zach has a long way to go, but they have to find the QB. So once you know that isn't Sam you move on.

Reading the Panthers boards now it is interesting, they are not happy with Sam.

glad im not the only one who reads the panthers board.. lol

there hating on everyone. Rhule , Brady, Tepper..  

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51 minutes ago, doitny said:

glad im not the only one who reads the panthers board.. lol

there hating on everyone. Rhule , Brady, Tepper..  

Kinda what Darnold does to people.  Make you hate everyone and everything associated with your team.

Granted, Darnold was far from the only problem when he was a Jet, but he certainly helped make people despise Todd Bowles, Jeremy Bates, and others far more than they ever deserved.

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7 hours ago, ID. said:

I remember you wanted to bet on this.   There were a couple of people willing but too many stipulations.

No Darnold supporter will ever state up front what success looks like for him. They always want to be able to excuse away whatever happens. 

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10 hours ago, RoadFan said:

ZW’s college film is excellent.

Wilson was very accurate the final season at BYU.  I have no explanation for the really wild throws, but am not overly concerned yet.  My best guess is the game is still too fast for him.  

Wilson has immense talent.  He escapes like a magician, has a lighting release, and throws an easy ball.  

I think when he starts to recognize what is happening before the snap and stops looking for chunk plays every time, we are going to enjoy watching him play.

Not really sure what this has to do with my post but he was a mess in college and that's why he's currently the worst QB in he NFL.  Maybe he turns it around but the deck is stacked against him.  It's never happened before but maybe he can, who knows, to early to tell.  And really dont want to rehash this, again, but I strongly disagree on the bold.  It wasnt excellent, it was frightening.  It was littered with all the red flags that are on full display.  Doesnt mean he cant overcome it but the kid was a mess in college and it's carried over into the NFL.  I'm just hoping someone on the staff is actually teaching him how to play the position. 

 

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1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

Not really sure what this has to do with my post but he was a mess in college and that's why he's currently the worst QB in he NFL.  Maybe he turns it around but the deck is stacked against him.  It's never happened before but maybe he can, who knows, to early to tell.  And really dont want to rehash this, again, but I strongly disagree on the bold.  It wasnt excellent, it was frightening.  It was littered with all the red flags that are on full display.  Doesnt mean he cant overcome it but the kid was a mess in college and it's carried over into the NFL.  I'm just hoping someone on the staff is actually teaching him how to play the position. 

 

He's a flag football QB.

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8 hours ago, Paradis said:

it's not that static. Every new league year we see those "expected" outcomes rewritten.... but yes, you'd have to weigh in just how much you LOVE Wilson. If I was JD i would have made the O-staff sell me on why this guy is sooo good that we can't afford to pass on him for the betterment of the team.

A GM has to not just consider Wilson (or any of the other three that followed him). If one of them - particularly the one projected to go at #2 where we picked - pans out and he stuck with Darnold and drafted a TE (however talented) instead, he’d justifiably be under far more heat. 

They didn’t figure to land a top 3 pick again if Darnold returned (the reason they’d bring Darnold back is they figured he’d be good, not playing like a raw rookie) so their options to upgrade at QB in the next draft become a lot more of an unknown.

  • What if next year’s QB class looks like 2013’s, and instead of Wilson you’ve drafted Geno Smith II (or EJ Manuel II) to take over for Darnold? 
  • What if it’s like other classes that only have 1 -2 worthwhile QBs, where one of them goes #1 to a team desperate for a QB, and the other was a mid-round prospect among 9 other QB prospects? A QB-less team isn’t making that pick.
  • What if 2022 is like however-many other draft classes where you’d have to trade up to #3 to get rewarded with Blake Bortles, or pass on the top 3 QB prospects to bank on Derek Carr lasting to our pick in round 2 (or just as likely, there is no Derek Carr in round 2 after the first 3 underwhelming QBs). 

This FO wouldn’t go another draft without drafting a QB early unless Darnold was a clear top 10-15 QB worthy of franchise tagging for 2022 (or guaranteeing him $20MM in 2021 before he clearly looked even top 25-30). A team (and a GM) can survive without a Pitts more than it can survive without a QB. Wilson may not be the man - we all hope he is - but I can better sympathize with taking a shot on their choice of four QB prospects now, over hoping for the only worthy QB of a future class to be sitting there at our pick (as a prospect deemed worthy of taking at that pick; not using hindsight to say we should’ve taken Prescott in round 1 over Darron Lee, true as that statement may be).

If it wasn’t Darnold’s final contract year, and maybe if he’d had only two disappointing seasons instead of three, then perhaps they take that chance. Regardless, it’s doubtful a team with this many needs would’ve pulled the trigger on a TE at #2 overall (or #3 if they swapped with SF), let alone with a pick-hoarder like Douglas at the helm.

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11 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yep.  @jgb was trying to get in on it too and there were no takers.

I tried to bet that Darnold would not achieve an average QBR this season (which I defined as top 16). The Darnold supporter agreed then said "well I feel that an average QB has a QBR of 45 so that's what the number should be." 

In 2020, Tua had a QBR of 45. Ranking = 26.

Then I was accused of "welching" (wrong use of term, but besides the point) because I refused to bet on his terms. I told him yeah but I also believe Darnold will rank around 25 so... what is there to bet on?

Even in rare cases you can wrestle a Darnold supporter into a betting position they insist on sandbagging the number so much that it's no longer a bet on whether Darnold is good or not. But when there are no stakes they recklessly compare him to Drew Brees ad infinitum.

Actions speak louder than words. Shows that Darnold supporters aren't nearly as optimistic about him as they play online.

 

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17 hours ago, JiFapono said:

Like I said in the other thread, it's too early to make predictions but the thing about the Josh Allen example that I feel like people are missing out on here, is that Josh Allen wasnt the worst QB in the NFL his rookie season.  He was bad and didnt look to have next level passing abilities but he wasnt just the flat out worst QB in the NFL.  Zach is the worst QB in the NFL.  And that's scary.  How often does you see the worst QB in the NFL suddenly figure it out?  Not saying it cant happen but it never has before. 

It's like you're just making stuff up and saying it like fact...Rookie QB's in the early days, especially when they're on sh*tty teams will struggle.

 

Interesting how Lamar Jackson is 31....only ahead of Josh Rosen in 2018....

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-final-list-of-pffs-highest-graded-quarterbacks-in-the-nfl-in-2018

Also, through week 4 Allen's rookie year...

The Bills are the fourth-worst offense since 1986 through four games, according to Football Outsiders, and not much of that can be attributed to Week 1 starter Nathan Peterman. Allen is fascinating to watch because he's so toolsy and still so far away from possessing the recognition skills and accuracy to succeed as an NFL starter.\

https://www.nfl.com/news/qb-index-week-5-mahomes-sizzles-big-ben-fizzles-0ap3000000970018

 

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16 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

It's like you're just making stuff up and saying it like fact...Rookie QB's in the early days, especially when they're on sh*tty teams will struggle.

 

Interesting how Lamar Jackson is 31....only ahead of Josh Rosen in 2018....

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-final-list-of-pffs-highest-graded-quarterbacks-in-the-nfl-in-2018

Also, through week 4 Allen's rookie year...

The Bills are the fourth-worst offense since 1986 through four games, according to Football Outsiders, and not much of that can be attributed to Week 1 starter Nathan Peterman. Allen is fascinating to watch because he's so toolsy and still so far away from possessing the recognition skills and accuracy to succeed as an NFL starter.\

https://www.nfl.com/news/qb-index-week-5-mahomes-sizzles-big-ben-fizzles-0ap3000000970018

 

The funny thing is, this isnt even remotely relevant to what I said and it still proves my point!  lmfao  Thank you!

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On 10/18/2021 at 9:44 PM, Sperm Edwards said:

Mahomes didn’t play immediately. Reid sat his ass all season long until one garbage time game.

Ditto Rodgers. Alex Smith, drafted ahead of Rodgers, sucked for years.

Tannehill’s first 5 games he had 3 TDs and 6 picks and they weren’t installing a new offense & he didn’t have nearly as many free rushers nor dropped passes nor a rookie OC.

Stafford 3 TDs 7 INTs in his first 5 starts, and 3 of his next 5 games after that were atrocious (including throwing 9 picks in 2 of them).

Brady barely made the roster as a rookie. Brees saw action in 1 game. Both were healthy as rookies. Both threw 80,000 regular season passing yards.

The goal is to succeed in the face of adversity, not use it as an excuse forever, but he’s a rookie in a crap situation none of the above had to contend with. Let’s see what he does as things start to calm down a bit. 

No one’s going to want to give him 3 years of chances. Few will want to see him get even 2 if he looks like this all season long. 

I'm talking about the modern example. I don't think examples from 10 years ago are super relevant, let alone Brees, Brady, Rodgers etc.

Looking at guys from the last five draft classes -- the guys who are good were good right away. The NFL has adopted college schemes and concepts and many of these spread concepts are run at the HS level. Simply put, guys are better prepared than ever before to play well instantly.

Mahomes sat for a year, and maybe Wilson should have. But in his first season playing Mahomes was the MVP of the league. Wilson looks like the worst QB in the NFL.

There's just not a great track record of guys looking terrible their first years and turning into franchise QBs.

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4 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

The funny thing is, this isnt even remotely relevant to what I said and it still proves my point!  lmfao  Thank you!

LMFAO...

I mean the words are right there, it's honestly comical.

You said, Josh Allen wasn't the worst QB in the league...but ZW is so it's harder for him...

But just pointed out that Josh Allen was literally running one of the worst offenses of all times through 4 weeks.  With issues such as reading defenses and accuracy.

I pointed to Lamar Jackson who was the 31st ranked QB through that full year - who is now a top QB in the NFL.  

How you can read what you wrote and then claim that's not what you wrote is strange to me..

but you be you and continue it...

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19 hours ago, JetBlue said:

it is has been 5 games and I already feel better about Zachs abilities.  Give him a better OL, some more playmakers (in other words, switch places with Darnold), a CS with a clue, and we would see those abilities showcased and there would not be a question about this.  

The problem isn't Wilson's "abilities," its his fundamentals.

They are trashbag.  That's why I keep seeing a flag football QB when I watch him.

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Just now, FidelioJet said:

LMFAO...

I mean the words are right there, it's honestly comical.

You said, Josh Allen wasn't the worst QB in the league...but ZW is so it's harder for him...

But just pointed out that Josh Allen was literally running one of the worst offenses of all times through 4 weeks.  With issues such as reading defenses and accuracy.

I pointed to Lamar Jackson who was the 31st ranked QB through that full year - who is now a top QB in the NFL.  

How you can read what you wrote and then claim that's not what you wrote is strange to me..

but you be you and continue it...

JiF - Josh Allen wasnt the worst QB in the league.

Fidelio - here is a list verifying that Josh Allen wasnt the worst in the league. 

JiF - Thanks!

Fidelio - dude but like words!!!

 

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10 hours ago, Maxman said:

I liked Sam, I rooted for Sam and I think Gase ruined Sam. That said the Jets had to move on and seeing Darnold this year shows they were right in doing so. Zach has a long way to go, but they have to find the QB. So once you know that isn't Sam you move on.

Reading the Panthers boards now it is interesting, they are not happy with Sam.

If they're not happy with Sam at $4.6M wait until they are paying him $19M next year!

Picking up that extension was one of the dumbest unforced errors in front office history.

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36 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

JiF - Josh Allen wasnt the worst QB in the league.

Fidelio - here is a list verifying that Josh Allen wasnt the worst in the league. 

JiF - Thanks!

Fidelio - dude but like words!!!

 

At 4 weeks of his rookie season Josh Allen was, in fact, the worst QB in the NFL - it's there, go ahead and read it...Not just that but he was leading a top four worst offense in the history of the league.

You want to continue to just not concede that point, that's fine - you be you... but your intent was clear.  That ZW was ranked lower than Josh Allen in the early part of their rookie years, therefor ZW's chance of succeed is much more challenging.

This idea that the 31st ranked QB is more likely to become a star than the 32 is just silly - as in what Lamar Jackson was after his rookie season.

The reality is simple - Rookie QB's often suck early and go on the be top QB's in the league.  31st, 32nd, 26th, top 4 worst offenses of all times.  Certainly attacking ZW based on 5 weeks as an NFL QB is your right, but I will continue to point out when you make stuff up.

I'm not saying ZW is or isn't necessarily going to be a star QB - but there's nothing about ranking vs. Josh Allen's that's telling us anything.

 

 

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1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I'm talking about the modern example. I don't think examples from 10 years ago are super relevant, let alone Brees, Brady, Rodgers etc.

Looking at guys from the last five draft classes -- the guys who are good were good right away. The NFL has adopted college schemes and concepts and many of these spread concepts are run at the HS level. Simply put, guys are better prepared than ever before to play well instantly.

Mahomes say for a year, and maybe Wilson should have. But in his first season playing Mahomes was the MVP of the league. Wilson looks like the worst QB in the NFL.

There's just not a great track record of guys looking terrible their first years and turning into franchise QBs.

Sorry but that's beyond moving the goalposts. There is no "era" of 5 draft classes. 10 years ago are just as relevant as today's picks. Nothing magical happened between 6-10 years ago that makes QBing so much different for a 2021 prospect.

There's no "track record" at all when you're looking at such a small sample size. It's all statistical noise no matter which result side you're looking at. Those successes and failures are due to the individuals not some huge change in the NFL that began in 2016.

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18 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

At 4 weeks of his rookie season Josh Allen was, in fact, the worst QB in the NFL - it's there, go ahead and read it...Not just that but he was leading a top four worst offense in the history of the league.

You want to continue to just not concede that point, that's fine - you be you... but your intent was clear.  That ZW was ranked lower than Josh Allen in the early part of their rookie years, therefor ZW's chance of succeed is much more challenging.

This idea that the 31st ranked QB is more likely to become a star than the 32 is just silly - as in what Lamar Jackson was after his rookie season.

The reality is simple - Rookie QB's often suck early and go on the be top QB's in the league.  31st, 32nd, 26th, top 4 worst offenses of all times.  Certainly attacking ZW based on 5 weeks as an NFL QB is your right, but I will continue to point out when you make stuff up.

I'm not saying ZW is or isn't necessarily going to be a star QB - but there's nothing about ranking vs. Josh Allen's that's telling us anything.

 

 

Did JetNut hack your account?  Slow down and read.

I literally started my post with "It's too early to make any predictions on anyone but currently, ZW is the worst QB in the league".  I then said, there is a common misconception that Josh Allen was the worst QB in the league AFTER his rookie season. A season, doesn't refer to his first 4 games.

You're not proving anything here.  What I said, is 100% factual and you literally provided a list, that proved my point to be fact.  lmfao.  Granted the list is ******* moronic and not relevant at all since it's an opinion piece but the fact remains, after his rookie season, Josh Allen was not the worst QB in the league and you proved my point.

And Lamar's 6 games as a rookie are not relevant at all and he still, wasnt the worst QB in the NFL.  

These are not hard concepts to grasp, maybe slow down read and come correct when you step to me.  I'm right, you're wrong.  Accept your L and walk away.

 

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I am perplexed at the amount of Jets fans who are rooting for Sam to do well knowing that we hold Carolina's second round pick. To a lesser degree, if Sam does well it makes the Jets look less competent. I am rooting against Sam and Carolina (and I was a huge Sam proponent)

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19 hours ago, JiFapono said:

it's too early to make predictions but the thing about the Josh Allen example that I feel like people are missing out on here, is that Josh Allen wasnt the worst QB in the NFL his rookie season.  

@FidelioJet  come correct or dont come at all.

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13 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Sorry but that's beyond moving the goalposts. There is no "era" of 5 draft classes. 10 years ago are just as relevant as today's picks. Nothing magical happened between 6-10 years ago that makes QBing so much different for a 2021 prospect.

There's no "track record" at all when you're looking at such a small sample size. It's all statistical noise no matter which result side you're looking at. Those successes and failures are due to the individuals not some huge change in the NFL that began in 2016.

I think the difference is the contracts.  Because 2nd and 3rd QB contracts are so cost prohibitive there is a great deal of incentive to have these guys succeed right away.  That is why the changes that untouchable mentions took place, part of the reason they adopted so many college concepts.   In the olden days WFT would never have let Cousins go.  It will be interesting to see if any of the guys that haven't succeeded turn out- Darnold, Trubisky.  Teams have even moved on from guys on 2nd deals it will be interesting to see how that turns out - Tannehill, Goff.

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3 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Did JetNut hack your account?  Slow down and read.

I literally started my post with "It's too early to make any predictions on anyone but currently, ZW is the worst QB in the league".  I then said, there is a common misconception that Josh Allen was the worst QB in the league AFTER his rookie season. A season, doesn't refer to his first 4 games.

You're not proving anything here.  What I said, is 100% factual and you literally provided a list, that proved my point to be fact.  lmfao.  Granted the list is ******* moronic and not relevant at all since it's an opinion piece but the fact remains, after his rookie season, Josh Allen was not the worst QB in the league and you proved my point.

And Lamar's 6 games as a rookie are not relevant at all and he still, wasnt the worst QB in the NFL.  

These are not hard concepts to grasp, maybe slow down read and come correct when you step to me.  I'm right, you're wrong.  Accept your L and walk away.

 

So Lamar Jackson after 6 games - was ranked 31st in the league - which somehow doesn't count...while Zach Wilson after 5 weeks is gloom and doom? 

As for Allen, you're looking a full-season where he was 26th vs. 5 games.  Again, what we know is he was last after 4 games (I don't have the time to find after 5, but I'm sure he last then too)

You started with rankings, not me.   I agree, all of these QB rankings simply aren't adequate, there are just too many variables - especially for rookies.  They're all being asked to do different things and are brought into very different situations.  ZW happens to have been brought into one of the more difficult situations possible and being asked to do more than most rookies. 

 Even you must realize ZW's circumstances are also playing a role in his performance. 

I'll leave it alone after this...

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Man you guys are just engrained with "the sky is falling" mentality. Like abused wives here

ZW will be a stud. His floor is a solid stater. His ceiling? who knows but give the kid time like maybe a full rookie season before getting your panties soiled

 

 

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6 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

So Lamar Jackson after 6 games - was ranked 31st in the league - which somehow doesn't count...while Zach Wilson after 5 weeks is gloom and doom? 

As for Allen, you're looking a full-season where he was 26th vs. 5 games.  Again, what we know is he was last after 4 games (I don't have the time to find after 5, but I'm sure he last then too)

You started with rankings, not me.   I agree, all of these QB rankings simply aren't adequate, there are just too many variables - especially for rookies.  They're all being asked to do different things and are brought into very different situations.  ZW happens to have been brought into one of the more difficult situations possible and being asked to do more than most rookies. 

 Even you must realize ZW's circumstances are also playing a role in his performance. 

I'll leave it alone after this...

Omg - are you still going?  Read my original post, take your L and move on.

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6 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

So Lamar Jackson after 6 games - was ranked 31st in the league - which somehow doesn't count...while Zach Wilson after 5 weeks is gloom and doom? 

As for Allen, you're looking a full-season where he was 26th vs. 5 games.  Again, what we know is he was last after 4 games (I don't have the time to find after 5, but I'm sure he last then too)

You started with rankings, not me.   I agree, all of these QB rankings simply aren't adequate, there are just too many variables - especially for rookies.  They're all being asked to do different things and are brought into very different situations.  ZW happens to have been brought into one of the more difficult situations possible and being asked to do more than most rookies. 

 Even you must realize ZW's circumstances are also playing a role in his performance. 

I'll leave it alone after this...

I’m not giving up on Zach at all but I will say for Lamar that the entire offense was changed mid stream when flacco injured, and he still had no idea how to throw a football. He was a damn good running back. 

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7 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

So Lamar Jackson after 6 games - was ranked 31st in the league - which somehow doesn't count...while Zach Wilson after 5 weeks is gloom and doom? 

As for Allen, you're looking a full-season where he was 26th vs. 5 games.  Again, what we know is he was last after 4 games (I don't have the time to find after 5, but I'm sure he last then too)

You started with rankings, not me.   I agree, all of these QB rankings simply aren't adequate, there are just too many variables - especially for rookies.  They're all being asked to do different things and are brought into very different situations.  ZW happens to have been brought into one of the more difficult situations possible and being asked to do more than most rookies. 

 Even you must realize ZW's circumstances are also playing a role in his performance. 

I'll leave it alone after this...

He wants to be a SAR1. He makes solid statements that you cant argue with so much but his intention is to rile you up.

It like going to your friends house and seeing their kids report card. You say "wow he scored in the lowest percentile. 1% in reading. Your child is a bad reader. Statistically he couldnt be a worse reader"

And then wondering why you never get invited to dinner anymore

 

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