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New York Jets rookie Zach Wilson battles the 'Mahomes Effect'


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17 hours ago, JiFapono said:

My biggest frustration with the situation is, just like this article states below, all the garbage you see in his game, has carried over from college.   He was a mess and need to be broken down and reworked but he seemingly isnt being coached out of it.  Every time you hear LaFleur and Wilson they thinks his fundamentals and mechanics are fine and they are quite clearly plaguing his play.  I was ultimately fine with taking Wilson if you're building him based on his traits and you have a clear cut plan for how to make him successful.  And instead, they're acting like the drafted a finished product and in fact, have no discernible plan.  

I'll get flamed for this because I'm a mean person and Chris Simms but this is hard truth and I'm not even mad at Wilson for it, this is the Jets fault, yet again.

 

 

 

 

Very fair points. Nothing suggested he was a finished product coming out of school. He had some amazing traits and seem to be able to handle the speed of the game right up until the end of the first game.
 

After that he has looked beyond overmatched 70% of the time. It’s as if nobody is watching his film and working with him or those who are don’t have a damn clue what to do about it. We hear  film junkie blah blah blah but there is no evidence anyone is actually using that trait of his.
 

Kinda disgusting they drafted this kid with no plan, Saleh told him they will lift him up after they drafted him? Personally I don’t see it, like at all. The damn offense doesn’t even fit his skill set honestly, he’s not a Mac Jones type that can toss 6-9 yard darts across the middle all day like walking with pace. Spread the damn offense out and let the kid see the field and move a bit. LaFleur, Saleh and Joe Douglas makes the Three Stooges look like Mensa Members at this point. What a shitty ill conceived plan they had for this kid. Blech!

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This is just another article filled with all the popular cliches.  We have a Mahomes comparison, a Josh Allen comparison, even an Aaron Rodgers mention.   It’s become silly.  If Zach is going to be th

This reminds of me of that game in Jacksonville, where Darnold was absolutely pathetic but he made one of the most ridiculous completions I've ever seen.  So ridiculous the board was debating whether

I made a hole-in-one once. I have shown I have what it takes to be a PGA tour champion. Now I just need to work on my consistency.

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

It is.  Well, IMO it is.

And, as mentioned, I think it's where you and I are so far apart that it really isn't even worth debating.  I mean that sincerely and not meant to be argumentative at all - just the reality of the situation.

I can list all of the things that make him an elite talent, but they've been discussed ad nauseam around here and with experts for the past 6 months.

If you don't see or agree with them, that's fine...as mentioned, we're just too far apart.

I suspect before the year is out we'll start to see more of who he his - one way or the other - we'll likely get closer

 

 

 

Fair enough. And I know what's been said but now talking head time is over and we need to evaluate what he does.

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Zach has been sacked 18 times this year. 12 times after the 1st game.

Pressured 29.4%.

If that’s sufficient, then you and I have a different definition of what is expected of an offensive line.


It is the QB’s job to read and call out coverages and blitzes pre-snap. Do we have the best OL in the NFL? No. Is it the worst or even all that awful? Absolutely not. GVR is a liability but everyone else is more than serviceable. Many of those sacks are on Zach because he either didn’t recognize a blitz and didn’t get the ball out quick enough, or he didn’t read the coverage fast enough and took too long before the rush caught up to him. Much of the awful stats you presented are precisely Zach’s fault. Last year’s OL was much worse, and even with that you saw a marked improvement when Flacco played. Why? Because Flacco knows how to understand the D better than Sam did. The Chargers OL is serviceable just as ours is. Difference is their QB knows how to read a D and adjust.


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7 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Very fair points. Nothing suggested he was a finished product coming out of school. He had some amazing traits and seem to be able to handle the speed of the game right up until the end of the first game.
 

After that he has looked beyond overmatched 70% of the time. It’s as if nobody is watching his film and working with him or those who are don’t have a damn clue what to do about it. We hear  film junkie blah blah blah but there is no evidence anyone is actually using that trait of his.
 

Kinda disgusting they drafted this kid with no plan, Saleh told him they will lift him up after they drafted him? Personally I don’t see it, like at all. The damn offense doesn’t even fit his skill set honestly, he’s not a Mac Jones type that can toss 6-9 yard darts across the middle all day like walking with pace. Spread the damn offense out and let the kid see the field and move a bit. LaFleur, Saleh and Joe Douglas makes the Three Stooges look like Mensa Members at this point. What a sh*tty ill conceived plan they had for this kid. Blech!

The thing is, according to this article, he's not very good outside the pocket either.  You have to develop him and build around what he does well and the only thing that I've really seen him do well so far this season is when they give him the 3 step drops, quick reads to the hash marks.  So you're probably right, they need to just open it up and let him see the field more but that typically requires 5-7 which is where the problems begin, so I dont know what the answer is they really feel his fundamentals are fine.  The only answer is LaFleur is in over his head and Sahel is going to have to make a hard decision in the offseason. 

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So are we really at the point of convincing ourselves that some of the plays he's made aren't spectacular or special? Something like hitting a guy in stride 56 yards while running full speed to the sideline isn't something very many NFL QBs do. He's been inconsistent and bad overall, but it's undeniable that his highs show something rare. 

I know being a pessimist is almost synonymous with being a Jet fan, but lets be real here. The lows have been pretty low, but his high moments show off extraordinary arm talent.

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8 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Very fair points. Nothing suggested he was a finished product coming out of school. He had some amazing traits and seem to be able to handle the speed of the game right up until the end of the first game.
 

After that he has looked beyond overmatched 70% of the time. It’s as if nobody is watching his film and working with him or those who are don’t have a damn clue what to do about it. We hear  film junkie blah blah blah but there is no evidence anyone is actually using that trait of his.
 

Kinda disgusting they drafted this kid with no plan, Saleh told him they will lift him up after they drafted him? Personally I don’t see it, like at all. The damn offense doesn’t even fit his skill set honestly, he’s not a Mac Jones type that can toss 6-9 yard darts across the middle all day like walking with pace. Spread the damn offense out and let the kid see the field and move a bit. LaFleur, Saleh and Joe Douglas makes the Three Stooges look like Mensa Members at this point. What a sh*tty ill conceived plan they had for this kid. Blech!

We heard consistently before the draft that this scheme was perfect for Zach. What happened? I personally think LaFleur looks like a disaster. Not impressed with him at all. I certainly don't thing LaFleur has put him in situations to succeed. 

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3 minutes ago, freestater said:

We heard consistently before the draft that this scheme was perfect for Zach. What happened? I personally think LaFleur looks like a disaster. Not impressed with him at all. I certainly don't thing LaFleur has put him in situations to succeed. 

It's on all parties, but also a byproduct of the scheme itself.

LaFleur has been failing at devising a way for our offense to thrive early on and establish a tempo. While Wilson and his inconsistencies have been hampering that as well. However the Shanahan scheme is known for being friendly, but complex at the same time. Guys like Rodgers and Ryan didn't top like 28 TD's in their first year of the system and had probably their most pedestrian season yet. In fact I don't think any first year QB in this system has topped those TDs. Wilson and LaFleur being rookies in their position probably makes it even harder as well so it looks like both parties are in over their heads. 

Based on past trends, our Offense could see a major jump just by virtue of enough time passing for more guys to grasp what we're running, and for our OC to adjust when needed.

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Anytime I see Mahomes name mentioned along with one of our 32nd rank QBs, I never read the article. Didn’t do it with Darnold, and I’m not going to with Wilson either.

We already went through a TC where we read he was the second coming of Aaron Rodgers, and he’d be throwing to another rookie who was the next Jerry Rice. Neither have done anything 5 games in.

I’m just hoping he progresses from bad to average this year. When and if he becomes good we’ll be reading about HIS attributes, not those of Mahomes and Rodgers.

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On 10/21/2021 at 8:29 AM, jgb said:

 

Is it though? What elite traits does he have? The most often thing I've heard is arm strength. Lots of guys have a strong arm. Hardly difficult to find. Zach is in the fat middle of the bell curve for NFL QBs and will rise or fall based on what's upstairs/difficult to measure.

I'll tell you one unusual trait that us a two edge sword, but probably a necessary trait for the eventual curse breaker. 

Pundits started sewing "kid might be a bust" after his first scrimmage.  Kid got booed during his 1st two home games.  Media talking heads saying (correctly) that he needs to chill out and just do simple stuff.  

A normal person would be loaded with self doubt.  

Zach Wilson is wired different.  He doesn't give a duck.  "I just need to grip it and rip it." "Yeah fans booed me because they should.  I wasn't playing well" (and not just saying it but clearly believing it and not being shattered about it.) 

Yeah then when nothing had been going right he went out and won the double secret sugarless pepsi player of the week and won the game. 

Posters like you and @jifapono (sorry long day at work not going to figure out tag now but may edit later lol)  and you are coming from a different point of view to start with which is fine, but I think you are missing some important positive signs.  

Zach Wilson is wired the right way to succeed for the New York Jets.  That's far from a given.  It's not a normal trait even for NFL QBs.  This isn't false bravado.  It's "IDGAF things aren't going right.  I know what I did wrong and I can fix it.  I'll just grip it, rip it, and we will win."

There's other potentially really good signs. 

Just try to watch with fresh eyes.  It's all I ask. I think you will see there is a path to victory with this kid becoming a FQB.  

It's true that if he doesn't improve he's not an NFL starting quality QB, but that's normal for a rookie QB. I see amazing potential and it would suck to not enjoy the journey if it goes where I think it will.  

9 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

Interesting comparison…..

 

 

Reminds me of a JN post by someone sour on ZW from the start.  It would be better with clips and tape to back it up, cause I'm not sold.  Anyone can say anything.Next week @Snell41 might say Wilson is so slow he should consider walking with a cane to speed things up.  

Also familiar is he didn't like Zach as a prospect and everything he sees confirms what he already believed.  Very familiar lol.  

I think Zach has lots to learn but this isn't right.  Come with tape or readily known evidence if you want to make a claim lol.  

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12 hours ago, Action Zachtion said:

I'll tell you one unusual trait that us a two edge sword, but probably a necessary trait for the eventual curse breaker. 

Pundits started sewing "kid might be a bust" after his first scrimmage.  Kid got booed during his 1st two home games.  Media talking heads saying (correctly) that he needs to chill out and just do simple stuff.  

A normal person would be loaded with self doubt.  

Zach Wilson is wired different.  He doesn't give a duck.  "I just need to grip it and rip it." "Yeah fans booed me because they should.  I wasn't playing well" (and not just saying it but clearly believing it and not being shattered about it.) 

Yeah then when nothing had been going right he went out and won the double secret sugarless pepsi player of the week and won the game. 

Posters like you and @jifapono (sorry long day at work not going to figure out tag now but may edit later lol)  and you are coming from a different point of view to start with which is fine, but I think you are missing some important positive signs.  

Zach Wilson is wired the right way to succeed for the New York Jets.  That's far from a given.  It's not a normal trait even for NFL QBs.  This isn't false bravado.  It's "IDGAF things aren't going right.  I know what I did wrong and I can fix it.  I'll just grip it, rip it, and we will win."

There's other potentially really good signs. 

Just try to watch with fresh eyes.  It's all I ask. I think you will see there is a path to victory with this kid becoming a FQB.  

It's true that if he doesn't improve he's not an NFL starting quality QB, but that's normal for a rookie QB. I see amazing potential and it would suck to not enjoy the journey if it goes where I think it will.  

Reminds me of a JN post by someone sour on ZW from the start.  It would be better with clips and tape to back it up, cause I'm not sold.  Anyone can say anything.Next week @Snell41 might say Wilson is so slow he should consider walking with a cane to speed things up.  

Also familiar is he didn't like Zach as a prospect and everything he sees confirms what he already believed.  Very familiar lol.  

I think Zach has lots to learn but this isn't right.  Come with tape or readily known evidence if you want to make a claim lol.  

Nice post. Let me be clear: I’m not some Zach Wilson “hater.” I just don’t think unfounded or wild optimism does anyone any favors and I’m NEVER going down that road with a Jets QB ever again. I personally haven’t seen anything to counterbalance the default skepticism I have for any and all QBs coming into the league. I am not predicting he will be a bust.

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