kevinc855 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, T0mShane said: What you learn when you read up on a lot of these “great” GMs is that they are all obsessed with “culture” and guys who fit in the locker room, which leads them to make some weird picks along the way where they ignore an exponentially more talented player who profiles as an a-hole. Super Bowls are rarely won by the team with the most pure talent. I’m so sick of culture talk from coaches and gms Want a good culture? Win ball games bro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 35 minutes ago, freestater said: I don't know how anybody else reads this, but I'm pretty sure you just said @Pac is right and Macc was good. I’m not sure how familiar you are with @Pac’s psychological profile, but what you just did here will set him back months if not years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkeyeJet Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, kevinc855 said: I’m so sick of culture talk from coaches and gms Want a good culture? Win ball games bro Culture wins, bro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hex Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Bill Belichick is not exactly a great drafter either, but he won multiple super bowls because he hit on one. The bad drafts are coming back because Tom Brady left. This is an extreme example, but it fits this well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoni Beast Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 18 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said: He totally botched the 99 season by not having a serviceable backup to start the year. He totally botched the handoff to Belichick and left us in cap hell. Rex Ryan was better for the Jets than Bill Parcells. • He almost made the playoffs with Ray Lucas. • The proposition of James Dolan or Woody Johnson combined with (at the time) small dick energy from BB being in BP’s shadow made BB walk. • Rex Ryan took a championship roster and yes almost won it. But he was the driving force in roster retention and refill and left with us dog sh*t. He couldn’t develop a player or spot talent. Anything else? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinc855 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Is there really a thread trying to prove that parcels was bad for this franchise lol? and I’m to negative? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origen Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Geez, it's almost like I was saying last month how the Jets have had 4 good drafts EVER and 1 was because they had 4 first round picks and only slightly hit above average on it. And you idiots want to fire the GM after 2 drafts!?!?! This is why I gave up on commenting... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said: • He almost made the playoffs with Ray Lucas. • The proposition of James Dolan or Woody Johnson combined with (at the time) small dick energy from BB being in BP’s shadow made BB walk. • Rex Ryan took a championship roster and yes almost won it. But he was the driving force in roster retention and refill and left with us dog sh*t. He couldn’t develop a player or spot talent. Anything else? Ryan took over a championship roster? The two key players on that defense came to the Jets specifically to continue playing for Rex - Bart Scott and Jim Leonhard. Ryan did not inherit a championship roster. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said: Ryan took over a championship roster? The two key players on that defense came to the Jets specifically to continue playing for Rex - Bart Scott and Jim Leonhard. Ryan did not inherit a championship roster. So we’re gonna just forget about Revis, Ferguson, Mangold, Harris, Faneca, Moore and Woody now? Plus contributing vets like Ellis, Jenkins, Tony Richardson and Cotchery? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said: Bart Scott and Jim Leonhard. One (1) Pro Bowl selection combined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Parcels could rebuild teams quickly by bringing in veterans. Not included in this list is also Curtis Martin. The problem was that it didn’t set teams up for longer term success b/c teams were older when they got good. That said, Pennington was actually a good qb before his injuries and has been the closest thing to a franchise qb the jets have drafted since ken O’Brien. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said: Parcels could rebuild teams quickly by bringing in veterans. Not included in this list is also Curtis Martin. The problem was that it didn’t set teams up for longer term success b/c teams were older when they got good. That said, Pennington was actually a good qb before his injuries and has been the closest thing to a franchise qb the jets have drafted since ken O’Brien. Categorically false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted October 23, 2021 Author Share Posted October 23, 2021 1 hour ago, T0mShane said: You have to admit, SAR is playing an excellent game of chess/rope-a-dope in that thread. ? Gotta' be honest...I'm not here for the trolling so I just keep scrolling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted October 23, 2021 Author Share Posted October 23, 2021 1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said: This is an incredibly interesting post to me and might start me down a research path on something I’ve wanted to look into for awhile. I believe, but haven’t researched yet, that a good portion of GMs who are considered “the greats” either historically or currently have far more stinkers for drafts than acknowledged. I think fans assume the really good GMS are building teams through great draft year after year with, but I think most modern NFL juggernauts are built off of a singular great draft, then smart FA signings and a few hits in future draft. This Newsome snapshot makes me think it might be true. I looked at some Ballard drafts because he is considered a top flight GM, but lots of junk from him too. Hardly a scientific finding but I always recall one of the old retired GM's on sirius a few years back saying that the best of the best in terms of GM's "hit" on just over 50% of their picks. When you consider the fact that most will have an occassional "great" class that yields maybe 70% starters, most classes are gonna' be bad. But it's the multiple drafts where Parcells had 10+ picks and came away with one or two players. I mean, isn't the thing that makes a great GM great supposed to be his ability to hit on mid/late round picks? The 2000 class gives Parcells some respectability in round 1, but that was about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinc855 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said: At least Parcells never invited Manish on a podcast. And yes, Glenn, to answer your question, I’m doing fine and already see a therapist. Does he recommend going outside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoni Beast Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Klecko73isGod said: Ryan took over a championship roster? The two key players on that defense came to the Jets specifically to continue playing for Rex - Bart Scott and Jim Leonhard. Ryan did not inherit a championship roster. Really? Revis wasn’t THE key player of that defense? Lol Our OL had nothing to do with our success? Rex was gifted a roster with 8 pro bowlers in 2008. Let’s not play revisionist history here Credit is due to him for what he did, but he didn’t win it and he couldn’t keep sustained success when it was his turn to pick the players. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said: So we’re gonna just forget about Revis, Ferguson, Mangold, Harris, Faneca, Moore and Woody now? Plus contributing vets like Ellis, Jenkins, Tony Richardson and Cotchery? Kellen Clemens and Chansi Stucky. CHAMPSIONSHIP! Irony here is that Parcells really didnt do anything from 96-97. The OL was virtually the same; Elliot, Duffy, Dwyer, Williams. The offense was O'Donnel, Murrel, Anderson, Cherbet, Johnson, Brady. The defense was still led by Lewis, Glenn, Douglas, Green, Jones....but nobody credits Kotite for loading up the roster! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Division Marduk Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Adoni Beast said: • He almost made the playoffs with Ray Lucas. After he'd basically destroyed the chances of making the playoffs by sticking with Rick Mirer for half the season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 14 minutes ago, JiFapono said: Kellen Clemens and Chansi Stucky. CHAMPSIONSHIP! Irony here is that Parcells really didnt do anything from 96-97. The OL was virtually the same; Elliot, Duffy, Dwyer, Williams. The offense was O'Donnel, Murrel, Anderson, Cherbet, Johnson, Brady. The defense was still led by Lewis, Glenn, Douglas, Green, Jones....but nobody credits Kotite for loading up the roster! Oh for sure, there was a lot of fun talent on that team before Parcells arrived. Hence why Kotite’s coaching performance with that roster was even more pathetic than his already terrible W-L record suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said: So we’re gonna just forget about Revis, Ferguson, Mangold, Harris, Faneca, Moore and Woody now? Plus contributing vets like Ellis, Jenkins, Tony Richardson and Cotchery? If the Jets had a championship roster they would have won a championship. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 The problem with Parcells is he didnt enter the war room on draft day and think: WE NEED MORE DAWGS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 3 hours ago, T0mShane said: “If you ignore the good players he drafted and acquired, his drafts were terrible” is a superior Jets fan take. He is a solid team builder, but fairly terrible in the draft. Who are these good players? Tanking a whole draft for Jason Fabini seems pretty farfetched. 2000 was an excellent draft - Coles on top of the four firsts, but mostly he blew donkeys. You compare Ozzie Newsome? I look at those guys and say, yep, Ozzie was better. Passing on 2 hall of fame LTs for an LB that didn't fit his system? Cmon. Parcells excelled as a team builder. Having a vision and finding guys that fit it. He also did a good job of not hanging his hat on mistakes and trying to force them in <cough, like Rick Mirer cough>. The contracts he handed out to his boys hamstrung the team going forward. Most seemed like the last extension of Harris. Oh, and he was a fat ******* carpetbagger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 38 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said: If the Jets had a championship roster they would have won a championship. lol, ok? I never said we had a championship roster, though I definitely think we had one by 2010 everywhere except at QB. I've only argued that Rex had a very good situation waiting for him when he arrived. Pretty much as good as one could ask for as a 1st year HC. That's undeniable and a point only argued against by the most ardent and delusional of Rex Ryan's remaining supporters. Mangold and Revis had each just gone to their first of 7 Pro Bowls in 2008. Faneca had just gone to his 8th Pro Bowl in 2008. All 5 spots on the OL were established and solid. There was a quality mix of veteran and young talent across the roster. Suggesting that Rex played a big role in the roster being strong because he brought in Bart Scott and Jim Leonhard, 2 nice players but not really close to the top guys on the team, is either a disingenuous take or a terribly mistaken one. And then Rex played a huge role in turning the roster into a dumpster fire for the remainder of his tenure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 48 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: Parcells excelled as a team builder. Put this on a billboard, my friends. Dom finally admitted it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rox Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Parcells was a good coach. He was not a good GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirorob Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 4 hours ago, AFJF said: Yup. We pretend it's easy, but Bill took multiple guys with premium picks who went on to be special teams guys for a few years before being unemployed. What's funny is, he nailed his drafts with the Cowboys. But terrible with the Jets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR.GANGGREEN28 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 4 hours ago, AFJF said: Ozzie is another great example as to how hard it is to find a QB. His SB winning QB was the 10th one he drafted. Imagine letting a GM draft 10 QBs today. We want guys fired after the first one they take has a rough few weeks. Not too long after that same SB winning QB was backing up Sam Darnold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 1 hour ago, JiFapono said: Kellen Clemens and Chansi Stucky. CHAMPSIONSHIP! Irony here is that Parcells really didnt do anything from 96-97. The OL was virtually the same; Elliot, Duffy, Dwyer, Williams. The offense was O'Donnel, Murrel, Anderson, Cherbet, Johnson, Brady. The defense was still led by Lewis, Glenn, Douglas, Green, Jones....but nobody credits Kotite for loading up the roster! In more ways than one Belichick is as responsible for that AFCCG appearance as Parcells, if not more so, seeing how there's no Testaverde but for the close Belichick connection. Parcells was shopping for backups for Glenn Foley, not starters to unseat him - and then felt Testaverde was too soft (in addition to probably being too expensive for a QB2). Anyone think the Jets win 12 games - or even enough games for a WC spot - with Foley as the unquestioned starter all season long? Or with Foley and whichever Rick Mirer level addition he'd have added instead of VT? Which other cheaper QB2 with starting experience would he have otherwise signed: Ty Detmer, Dave Brown, Wade Wilson, or Steve DeBerg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenbloodblitz Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Parcells whipped the team into shape with a good coaching staff in one season. Fact of the matter is he treated this fan base like we were a one-night stand whore. I'm not as high on his stay here as a lot of other guys. In fact when Testaverde went down Parcells had no answer. It was pathetic, poor planning. We were starting our punter at QB for Christ sakes! He then proceeded to bail on us like he just overflowed the toilet at Denny's.. I respect the hell out of him and his coaching career and coaching tree don't get me wrong, but if you really think back to his exit, it was not cool and it left me feeling kinda jipped- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 52 minutes ago, T0mShane said: Put this on a billboard, my friends. Dom fin, ally admitted it. I always admitted it. I also believe bringing a team from 1-16 to 9-7 is less than half the job. I honestly believe that it is easy to turn a team around in under 3 years. Much more difficult to go from low seed to champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 6 hours ago, T0mShane said: What the Jets “got” with Parcells was a man who set up the franchise for a decade of success with a nimrod head coach in Herm Edwards. Kinda like saying Rex Ryan was responsible for how the team looks today. Save the Hero worship, Fat Tuna gets credit for what he did while coach and GM, including screwing up Bellichek, not what happened years after he was gone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Warfish said: Kinda like saying Rex Ryan was responsible for how the team looks today. Save the Hero worship, Fat Tuna gets credit for what he did while coach and GM, including screwing up Bellichek, not what happened years after he was gone. Rex was so toxic that the only person who would agree to GM for him (after he knifed Mike Tannenbaum) was John Idzik. When Idzik and Rex were excised, the Johnson brand was so toxic that they had to co-opt the credibility of Charlie Casserly and Ron Hunt to recruit a new GM, but, again, the Jets job was so toxic that they ended up settling for Casserly’s former coffee boy Mike Maccagnan, who is unquestionably one of the worst GMs in the history of the sport. Maccagnan was so bad that the Jets had to settle for Adam Gase, whose Machiavellian takedown of Maccagnan led to Joe Douglas, who is currently trying to undo literally everything that Maccagnan did. So, yes, Rex’s treachery and incompetence is still being felt to this very day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggs Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 6 hours ago, undertow said: Somewhere along the line people have convinced themselves that you are supposed to draft 5 starters a year....Parcells had one great draft, 2 bad, and one ok. So now we are saying Parcells was bad at building teams? lol Parcells built the Jets through FA not the draft. Vinny, Martin and Mawae along with a bunch of his guys on D were brought in. The deal for Martin was a complete cap killer to keep the Pats from matching. Parcells made a move to win a SB and fell a game short. He had one nice draft. He won 2 SB with the Giants when George Young picked the groceries. He fell short everywhere else. The reality is we probably had one of the great coaching staffs in terms of player devlopment in the league when he was here and his picks generally weren't better than the league mean average when you consider the amount of first rounders he had in one draft. We had veteran teams and great coaching on both sides of the ball. Abraham was probably the most talented player he drafted here. He also may have cost us Manning who would have completely changed the course of the Jets for 15 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted October 23, 2021 Author Share Posted October 23, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said: At least Parcells never invited Manish on a podcast. And yes, Glenn, to answer your question, I’m doing fine and already see a therapist. Baby steps. And having Manish on a podcast is better than Passing on 2 HoF LT's for a LB who never sees a second contract. Edited October 23, 2021 by AFJF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted October 23, 2021 Author Share Posted October 23, 2021 6 hours ago, kevinc855 said: Is there really a thread trying to prove that parcels was bad for this franchise lol? and I’m to negative? No, there is really a thread talking about how well he did or did not draft. Apologies for the very misleading thread title, "The Parcells Drafts". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.