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Pitts is a beast but Chase looks like the best player in the draft.  

Update for record keeping purposes.  .... 6 games in, on the TE's rookie season (he's already the best TE in the league btw) Last 2 games 16 catches, 283 yards, 1 TD... (better stat lin

Everybody's better than Zach Wilson

10 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Honestly, reading this post I initially thought you were kidding....and just being cheeky - but now I realize you were serious...

That after that game today, your main take away was the biggest problem with the Jets is their 5 game rookie QB?

That shows deep seeded and irrational dislike of the kid...

nope not at all, I like Zach a lot and I want him to succeed but I'm not going to make up fantasies that he's playing well. He's playing terrible and that's a big concern.

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7 hours ago, Paradis said:

he's dusting those guys in year 1 btw. Gronk had a nice TD line, but that's the McDaniels special. He'll be a slice above.

Anyway, that's not the point. Nor is being better than Moore - who by the way was crowned in august by JN.

Who cares if he is dusting someone in year 1. Baker Mayfield was better than Aaron Rogers in year 1. 

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16 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Very  much understood ... but that's not a ticket to be horrible. I expect mistakes but I also expect some competence as well

And you got it, you just didn’t n’t want to see it.

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10 minutes ago, Jetluv58 said:

And you got it, you just didn’t n’t want to see it.

When I say Competence I'm looking for long sustained drives .... How many of those have we seen ? 

Also when I say competence I mean consistently moving the team with the dumb rookie mistake here and there. 

We all expected rookie mistakes not entire halves of Football in just about every game with no sustained drives at all.

He played well in the second half vs Tenn and vs Carolina other than that you would be hard pressed to take much else from what he's done and the Kid has admitted it. So I'm not sure what you are referring too when you say I "don't want to see it" when he himself has been his toughest critic.

Just to clear things up I really like Zach Wilson and I want him to succeed but I'm not going to base what I see on just talent Like I have in the past with other QB's or consistently blame it on the OC or HC anymore. From now on I want to see results not flashes. I think Zach is fully capable but obviously something is going wrong .

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4 hours ago, Pichula said:

Who cares if he is dusting someone in year 1. Baker Mayfield was better than Aaron Rogers in year 1. 

It matters because TE's generally take a while to develop.  At bare minimum, TE's rarely produce great numbers in their rookie seasons.  Dominating at your position in year 1 is rare, and means he's very likely going to be special.  

Travis Kelce didn't reach his first Pro Bowl until his 3rd season in the league, didn't have a 1,000+ yard season until year 4, and didn't become a red zone monster until year 5.

George Kittle only had 515 yards and 2 TDs in his rookie season.

Even the great Tony Gonzalez didn't start becoming great until his 3rd season.

Pitts may not be finding the end zone yet but he's on pace for 1,334 yards.  

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

It matters because TE's generally take a while to develop.  Dominating at your position in year 1 is rare, and means he's going to be special.  

Travis Kelce didn't reach his first Pro Bowl until his 3rd season in the league, didn't have a 1,000+ yard season until year 4, and didn't become a red zone monster until year 5.

George Kittle only had 515 yards and 2 TDs in his rookie season.

Even the great Tony Gonzalez didn't start becoming great until his 3rd season.

Pitts may not be finding the end zone yet but he's on pace for 1,334 yards.  

He’s good, but he’s a WR right now and Chase is better 

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19 hours ago, Paradis said:

Update for record keeping purposes.  ....

  • 6 games in, on the TE's rookie season (he's already the best TE in the league btw)
  • Last 2 games 16 catches, 283 yards, 1 TD... (better stat line that Wilson in 2 games who is 243 yards 0 TDs)
  • season 31/471/1

Is that better than E. Moore? ^^

Serious question.

What does his stat line look like on the Jets?

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5 minutes ago, Pichula said:

He’s good, but he’s a WR right now and Chase is better 

OK?  So add Chase to the list of players who would have vied for the # 1 pick in a re-draft situation.  No one is dismissing Chase in the process of propping up Pitts.

Even if Chase ends up having the better career than Pitts, I'd still prefer to have Pitts than Chase at the moment.  TE is the more scarce position.  By 2022 Pitts is without question going to be the best TE in the game.  There's no other special talents at the position going forward except maybe Waller.  Chase will have a tough time cracking the top 5 at the WR spot. 

Normally I'd prefer the WR because it's a premium position, TE is not, and TE's tend to get hurt a lot more often.  But Pitts is going to transcend the TE position and may well end up on a GOAT path.

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12 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

You never draft a TE top 15 you just don’t, I don’t care how generational he is.  Kittle, Gronk, Kelce.

I disagreed with Paradis that Pitts play is an indictment on JD's drafting Moore. But if you know you are getting a Gronk/Kelce/Waller, and he is available at 5/10/15, you take him. Pitts is basically a WR anyway. The dude rarely blocks. 

And while we are on the subject, everyone that also bashed the Bengals for taking Chase over an OL, also look pretty dumb these days. 
Apparently, you need to playmakers in the NFL these days. 

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5 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Chase is so much better and more impactful than Pitts it’s not really a discussion.  

That's a fair argument, BUT Chase hadn't played in a year and Pitts is also great. Not sure the Falcons regret taking Pitts over Chase at this point. 

The real lesson is that you take playmakers early and often. The Chiefs are nothing without Tyreek and Kelce. We need to use both our top 10 picks this year to take these types of playmakers. Hopefully Saleh doesn't get into JDs head and convince him to rebuild the defense. 

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14 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Chase is so much better and more impactful than Pitts it’s not really a discussion.  

 

13 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

And Let’s be serious.  Kyle Pitts isn’t a TE.  He’s some weird unicorn slot receiver. TEs block.

 

So let me get this straight.  You think Pitts NOT spending time blocking REDUCES his impact on games?  It's because he isn't asked to block that makes him so impactful.  Asking him to block is an easy way to get him hurt, a risk traditional TE's all face (which usually reduces a TE's value).

And yeah, I don't know of a lot of slot receivers capable of 20+ yards per target.

Pitts' transcending the TE position is what is going to make him such an elite, impactful talent.  Opposing team CB1's are going to end up having to cover him.  

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17 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Chase is so much better and more impactful than Pitts it’s not really a discussion.  

That's an absurd dismissal of the WR economy that is available on an annual basis. And a confusing statement.

12 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I disagreed with Paradis that Pitts play is an indictment on JD's drafting Moore.  

I've said a couple times., this wasn't a thread to chastise Moore over Pitts.

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6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

So let me get this straight.  You think Pitts NOT spending time blocking REDUCES his impact on games?  It's because he isn't asked to block that makes him so impactful.  Asking him to block is an easy way to get him hurt, a risk traditional TE's all face (which usually reduces a TE's value).

And yeah, I don't know of a lot of slot receivers capable of 20+ yards per target.

Pitts' transcending the TE position is what is going to make him such a transcendent talent.  Opposing team CB1's are going to end up having to cover him.  

You understand that if a TE doesn’t block they are just a slot WR right? 

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20 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

In my Mock Draft I had the Jets taking Chase and Mac Jones then Najee Harris and 2 OL in round 2 I think Humphrey and an guard. Wonder how that would have looked

I like it in hindsight but I'm starting to think even taking Davis Mills in round 2 would have been better, but with this CS I am not sure its the players we drafted or just the straight up ineptitude of Saleh and Lafluer and or the stupidity of JD not having any kind of veteran presence, either on the CS or in the QB room that is the reason Moore and Wilson look so bad.  

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Just now, Pichula said:

You understand that if a TE doesn’t block they are just a slot WR right? 

I see we've reached that point in the thread.

 

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5 minutes ago, Pichula said:

You understand that if a TE doesn’t block they are just a slot WR right? 

Again, I don't know of too many slot receivers who are capable of 20+ yards per target.  

You can't dismiss him with an inaccurate over-simplification like that.

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Again, I don't know of too many slot receivers who are capable of 20+ yards per target.  

You keep invalidating the Chase comp but if he doesn’t block, and doesn’t make the offense two dimensional he is a WR. A good one, but a WR. 

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5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

So let me get this straight.  You think Pitts NOT spending time blocking REDUCES his impact on games?  It's because he isn't asked to block that makes him so impactful.  Asking him to block is an easy way to get him hurt, a risk traditional TE's all face (which usually reduces a TE's value).

And yeah, I don't know of a lot of slot receivers capable of 20+ yards per target.

Pitts' transcending the TE position is what is going to make him such a transcendent talent.  Opposing team CB1's are going to end up having to cover him.  

No?  I said he’s not as impactful as Chase.  Are you saying he is?  If so, I’d say the numbers obviously show he’s not.

The part about blocking is simply to emphasize that it’s silly to say that he’s the best TE in the league or compare him to Kittle, Kelce, Gronk or any other TE really because he doesn’t do what they do.  He’s simply a pass catcher.  And I’m not saying that’s a bad thing.  He appears to be an incredible weapon as a pass catcher.  That’s like saying a left handed relief specialist is the same as the guy who pitches against opposite handed hitters.  They both are relief pitchers, both are valuable, but they aren’t really the same.

Your point about slot receivers not averaging 20 yards a catch, well that was one game.  I would imagine Tyler Lockett, Cooper Kupp, Chris Godwin have all had games with that type of production.  His season average to date is 10 yards a target, pretty on par with good slot receivers.

Again, if anything, he’s transcending the slot WR position while being labeled a TE for whatever reason.  And all he’s really doing is being permanently used inside like teams have used bigger outside WRs in the slot.  Guys like Hopkins, Keenan Allen, Allen Robinson have taken lots of snaps inside over the years.  It’s not some new concept.  Pitts is just the first to do it all the time.

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1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

That's a fair argument, BUT Chase hadn't played in a year and Pitts is also great. Not sure the Falcons regret taking Pitts over Chase at this point. 

The real lesson is that you take playmakers early and often. The Chiefs are nothing without Tyreek and Kelce. We need to use both our top 10 picks this year to take these types of playmakers. Hopefully Saleh doesn't get into JDs head and convince him to rebuild the defense. 

I agree on the playmaker need and agree the Jets need to stop drafting so “safe” the bust rate on these hopeful playmakers is high and a lot come with character concerns.  It’s time the Jets sack up and reach for some damn stars!

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On 10/24/2021 at 11:58 PM, Sellis92 said:

What exactly has Zach Wilson shown you guys to believe anything other than he was a ridiculously overhyped part of a ridiculously overhyped draft class?

 

he sucked in college anytime he faced a ranked defense.  He’s undersized.  Has a significant injury history (gee, the chickens came to roost eh?), and he’s walking into a horrible situation with a rotten organization 

 

Not sure how the media convinced Jets fans the JD regime was ever legit

These Mike White folks are sore! 

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4 hours ago, Jetluv58 said:

These Mike White folks are sore! 

Considering he posted that after the pats game I doubt it had much to do with his reasoning. White hadn't even won a game or performed well at that point. 

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On 10/24/2021 at 4:18 PM, Paradis said:

Update for record keeping purposes.  ....

  • 6 games in, on the TE's rookie season (he's already the best TE in the league btw)
  • Last 2 games 16 catches, 283 yards, 1 TD... (better stat line that Wilson in 2 games who is 243 yards 0 TDs)
  • season 31/471/1

Is that better than E. Moore? ^^

If you want to compare apples to turnips, yes.

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