One Reason Saleh Is Failing and May Ultimately Fail

[McNeil]

The quotes below. Like some other HCs who were for DCs, he emphasizes defense semi giving the league's worst offense a pass. Of course allowing 50+ plus deserves great attention. But as we all know - and perhaps Saleh doesn't - it's an offense first league. How about a good ol' fashioned offensive shootout coach? 

It's one thing to give up boatloads of points. It's another for your offense to be non-competitive. Not giving your team a sense of hope.

And then there are other recent quotes from him amounting to: when things go bad, it's important to stick to your guns. Hey Coach, your guns ain't workin and essentially haven't all season. You are what your record says you are, and you are and have been the dregs.

Also embarrassment, Saleh admitted.

"Yeah, obviously. This is the NFL. You give up 50 points, it's embarrassing," Saleh said. "I don't think I've had a feeling like this since 2017 against Dallas [a 40-10 win over San Francisco]. It's a helpless feeling. You're just trying to figure something out.

 

[hawk]

The offensive facets appear to be improving with experience, however, as you stated, it is an offensive league; Have to have a QB!

Wilson has been worse than just a rookie, and obviously, White is also inexperienced in more ways than one.  

[ScarletKnight89]

What do you want him to say after a 54-13 drubbing? Obviously we don't want it to happen but I don't really have a problem with him saying "It's a helpless feeling." I would imagine it probably was for him lol.

[Paradis]

What? 

The only real tangible reason he's on his way down with the ship right now - is he made an incredibly naive mistake of hitching his BYU rookie QB to an OC with barely more experience than I have -- and asked him to raise a phoenix from the ashes (Jets O)... 

That was **** stupid. He should have been trying to find a bunch of established people. Not just one passing-game coordinator. 

[ScarletKnight89]

1 minute ago, Paradis said:

What? 

The only real tangible reason he's on his way down with the ship right now - is he made an incredibly naive mistake of hitching his BYU rookie QB to an OC with barely more experience than I have -- and asked him to raise a phoenix from the ashes (Jets O)... 

That was **** stupid. He should have been trying to find a bunch of established people. Not just one passing-game coordinator. 

I think this is definitely true. Pairing a rookie QB with a rookie OC being overseen by a rookie HC just feels stupid. 

[Saul Goodman]

Saleh looked rattled and lost on the sideline. I posted this in the game thread but the Jets have already broken him. He looks nothing like the guy we hired. 

[munchmemory]

3 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

Saleh looked rattled and lost on the sideline. I posted this in the game thread but the Jets have already broken him. He looks nothing like the guy we hired. 

Like many Jet coaches before him, the jocular Saleh is gone.  Losing and dealing with the consequences (media, fans, management, players) does that to a HC.

[Paradis]

why don't you enlighten us @FidelioJet .... You have been fluid (don't think i didn't notice) at directing blame and dismissing accountability... so tell us what's really happening with the jets.

[BP]

6 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

Saleh looked rattled and lost on the sideline. I posted this in the game thread but the Jets have already broken him. He looks nothing like the guy we hired. 

And you don’t  come out of a bye against your bitter rival and only practice two days last week? That’s crazy, it’s like he was complacent and happy with the first 5 games. This was the worst game of the year so far.

[Daddy Wang Doodle]

He really does seem to be a shell of the guy who was hired. Already gone is the exuberance and fire displayed on the sideline from his days with the 49ers, replaced with a deadpan, what-have-I-gotten-myself-into look

[JTJet]

13 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

Saleh looked rattled and lost on the sideline. I posted this in the game thread but the Jets have already broken him. He looks nothing like the guy we hired. 

Theres a reason for that. 

Saleh isnt the guy and apparently never was to begin with. 

Generally, the top dogs arent the cheerleader type, they rarely can be, because they have the weight of responsibility on their shoulders. (Belicheck, Saban, Phil Jackson, etc)

Cheerleading motivational types can be like they are because most of the time they arent the ones the buck stops with. At least this is what I've seen from my military days and management days.

It seems Saleh is finding out that being the top dog isnt being an assistant coach, dude looks lost as sh*t on the sideline. 

Meanwhile his buddy Lafleur is calling plays 40 yards away standing down field where he cant see sh*t.

[FidelioJet]

21 minutes ago, Paradis said:

why don't you enlighten us @FidelioJet .... You have been fluid (don't think i didn't notice) at directing blame and dismissing accountability... so tell us what's really happening with the jets.

I'm glad you asked...

You see, I don't really think there is anyone to blame.  Well, if you really want to find a culprit it's still Mike McCagnan.

Joe Douglas was brought in here 2.5 years ago to do a job that he believed would take a long time to execute.  Literally what  seemed to be a 5 year plan.  He demanded a 6 year contract because he knew what this was going to take.

He sold a plan to the Johnson's that was built on a full tear-down of the the team.  Clearing out deadweight, getting rid of talent that wasn't going to be part of the long-term, acquiring picks and building through the draft. Looking at the crappy contracts on the books - he knew it would basically take 3 years to clean up the crap.  

As I've stated, the team was taken down, by plan, to its bare bones, and this is the first year where the rebuild has now begun.

So, my point is - no one is to blame - what you're watching now is the inevitable floor and a long term plan.  What we're witnessing is the first true rebuild this team has ever made - and it's ugly on the bottom.

Am I worried about JD's first draft, yes.  Am I worried Greg Van Roten is the still the starting RG, yes..

But otherwise I am still a fan of the plan, I am still bullish on ZW, I like this plan, I do think we really just needed to rip off the band-aid - and I'm still, cautiously optimistic about JD's ability to build the roster.

As for the coaches, they've been given a near impossible job...As long as the team doesn't quit it's tough to judge anything they're doing.

[Hex]

That's better than saying "Denzel Mims had a good practice this week". Admitting that it's frustrating is probably the best thing he could have said. Anything else he would have been ripped on anyways.

[Augustiniak]

29 minutes ago, Paradis said:

What? 

The only real tangible reason he's on his way down with the ship right now - is he made an incredibly naive mistake of hitching his BYU rookie QB to an OC with barely more experience than I have -- and asked him to raise a phoenix from the ashes (Jets O)... 

That was **** stupid. He should have been trying to find a bunch of established people. Not just one passing-game coordinator. 

This is above all the worst decision he made.  He chose his buddy’s younger brother to do it rather than surround himself with experienced coaches to guide the offensive transition.  It shows he completely underestimated how difficult it would be to integrate a new qb, several other rookies, other newcomers to the offense and a rookie OC all at once.  His decision making is piss poor.  And that’s why I’m not buying into his reasons for mims not playing.  He has no clue about the offense at all.

[Vader]

31 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

Saleh looked rattled and lost on the sideline. I posted this in the game thread but the Jets have already broken him. He looks nothing like the guy we hired. 

That’s what happens when you start with “All gas, no brakes,” and paint it on the doors, before filling the tank and starting the engines. We saw this kind of bluster and how it ends with Rex. Difference is, Rex took a little AFC Championship game detour before the wheels fell off. It’s taken Saleh 7 games.

[Warfish]

18 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm glad you asked...

You see, I don't really think there is anyone to blame.  Well, if you really want to find a culprit it's still Mike McCagnan.

Joe Douglas was brought in here 2.5 years ago to do a job that he believed would take a long time to execute.  Literally what  seemed to be a 5 year plan.  He demanded a 6 year contract because he knew what this was going to take.

He sold a plan to the Johnson's that was built on a full tear-down of the the team.  Clearing out deadweight, getting rid of talent that wasn't going to be part of the long-term, acquiring picks and building through the draft. Looking at the crappy contracts on the books - he knew it would basically take 3 years to clean up the crap.  

As I've stated, the team was taken down, by plan, to its bare bones, and this is the first year where the rebuild has now begun.

So, my point is - no one is to blame - what you're watching now is the inevitable floor and a long term plan.  What we're witnessing is the first true rebuild this team has ever made - and it's ugly on the bottom.

Am I worried about JD's first draft, yes.  Am I worried Greg Van Roten is the still the starting RG, yes..

But otherwise I am still a fan of the plan, I am still bullish on ZW, I like this plan, I do think we really just needed to rip off the band-aid - and I'm still, cautiously optimistic about JD's ability to build the roster.

As for the coaches, they've been given a near impossible job...As long as the team doesn't quit it's tough to judge anything they're doing.

TLDR:  "Check Back in 2027 please, we might compete then, it's a process."

I get it, but this fanbase doesn't have the patience for it, and it's not our fault we lack that patience.

[ZachStepdad]

37 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

Saleh looked rattled and lost on the sideline. I posted this in the game thread but the Jets have already broken him. He looks nothing like the guy we hired. 

I saw that too but to turn this around it’s gonna need more than one season. 49ers first season with shanahan was just as bad as this also so maybe he’s not broken

[56mehl56]

38 minutes ago, Paradis said:

What? 

The only real tangible reason he's on his way down with the ship right now - is he made an incredibly naive mistake of hitching his BYU rookie QB to an OC with barely more experience than I have -- and asked him to raise a phoenix from the ashes (Jets O)... 

That was **** stupid. He should have been trying to find a bunch of established people. Not just one passing-game coordinator. 

He wasn't trying to resurrect the offense in one season. they are all starting from page one and growing together which is why I believe a Vet QB was not brought in to start. Sure its ugly and disconcerting right now, but this young team as a whole is learning and growing together and I believe will be better for it in the end. The unfortunate aspect in it all, is that they lost Greg Knapp who have eased Zach's transition a tad more. 

[Paradis]

16 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

He wasn't trying to resurrect the offense in one season. they are all starting from page one and growing together which is why I believe a Vet QB was not brought in to start. Sure its ugly and disconcerting right now, but this young team as a whole is learning and growing together and I believe will be better for it in the end. The unfortunate aspect in it all, is that they lost Greg Knapp who have eased Zach's transition a tad more. 

No. 

You and I have been watching football for too long to pass this off as learning BS... HOU's team is worse than ours. Everywhere... and David Mills is playing football that is light years better than Wilson'

It's ignorant at this point to say that this is just a process. I"m sure of that.

[Paradis]

30 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

This is above all the worst decision he made.  He chose his buddy’s younger brother to do it rather than surround himself with experienced coaches to guide the offensive transition.  It shows he completely underestimated how difficult it would be to integrate a new qb, several other rookies, other newcomers to the offense and a rookie OC all at once.  His decision making is piss poor.  And that’s why I’m not buying into his reasons for mims not playing.  He has no clue about the offense at all.

1000000000000000%

[sec101row23]

32 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

This is above all the worst decision he made.  He chose his buddy’s younger brother to do it rather than surround himself with experienced coaches to guide the offensive transition.  It shows he completely underestimated how difficult it would be to integrate a new qb, several other rookies, other newcomers to the offense and a rookie OC all at once.  His decision making is piss poor.  And that’s why I’m not buying into his reasons for mims not playing.  He has no clue about the offense at all.

Agreed.  I think the biggest indictment on this coaching staff thus far is LaFleur and his poor ability to get the right personnel on the field together.  He’s not playing receivers in the right spot and he’s pairing the wrong receivers together.   I’ve been pointing this out since day one of training camp.   LaFleur is trying too hard to be mini Shanahan.  How he’s trying to develop Moore is criminal, absolutely clueless.   

[kdels62]

12 minutes ago, Paradis said:

No. 

You and I have been watching football for too long to pass this off as learning BS... HOU's team is worse than ours. Everywhere... and David Mills is playing football that is light years better than Wilson'

It's ignorant at this point to say that this is just a process. I"m sure of that.

Have you watched any Texans games besides the one against the Pats? Davis Mills has been god awful. 

I actually do like the Texans coach tho, his team seems to actually try hard and believe in him. 

[Wit]

47 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm glad you asked...

You see, I don't really think there is anyone to blame.  Well, if you really want to find a culprit it's still Mike McCagnan.

Joe Douglas was brought in here 2.5 years ago to do a job that he believed would take a long time to execute.  Literally what  seemed to be a 5 year plan.  He demanded a 6 year contract because he knew what this was going to take.

He sold a plan to the Johnson's that was built on a full tear-down of the the team.  Clearing out deadweight, getting rid of talent that wasn't going to be part of the long-term, acquiring picks and building through the draft. Looking at the crappy contracts on the books - he knew it would basically take 3 years to clean up the crap.  

As I've stated, the team was taken down, by plan, to its bare bones, and this is the first year where the rebuild has now begun.

So, my point is - no one is to blame - what you're watching now is the inevitable floor and a long term plan.  What we're witnessing is the first true rebuild this team has ever made - and it's ugly on the bottom.

Am I worried about JD's first draft, yes.  Am I worried Greg Van Roten is the still the starting RG, yes..

But otherwise I am still a fan of the plan, I am still bullish on ZW, I like this plan, I do think we really just needed to rip off the band-aid - and I'm still, cautiously optimistic about JD's ability to build the roster.

As for the coaches, they've been given a near impossible job...As long as the team doesn't quit it's tough to judge anything they're doing.

The only thing Im questioning  is why give a rookie staff with almost all rookies at their new jobs (ulbrich is a second year coach) an impossible jobs? 

I get why they didnt bring in a vet for Zach, if hes out then we should just lose and get a better draft pick, if hes in dont let the fans scream for Foles. I just dont understand the plan of not having a veteran voice in the entire  BUILDING. Woody is the most experienced in his position at this point. Dumb Dumb WOODY.

[Ecuadorian Jet]

Saleh on his own has decisively made the entire nation think and feel that Adam Gase was a better coach. Saleh and his staff, LaFool and Ulbrick, pretend to be smarter than they, and sadly successfully bulls...ed their way into millionaire jobs. This actually expands to Douglas.

Clearly they are incompetent and there is no question about it. There is no debate on how incompetent Douglas, Saleh, LaFool and Ulbrick are. They are incompetent for not adjusting to the reality of the team and work to make things better with what they have.  Or they are incompetent for believing their own bull...t. Either way all signs show they are not prepared to deliver on the jobs they are getting paid for. 

[Paradis]

53 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

So, my point is - no one is to blame - what you're watching now is the inevitable floor and a long term plan.  What we're witnessing is the first true rebuild this team has ever made - and it's ugly on the bottom.

Lol what a load. Take your Montessori speech somewhere else. This is the NFL with 7-figure salaries. We're the most inept team in the NFL meanwhile you got franchises like HOU, PHI and even DET who had nightmare offseason and they're all player better football with worse rosters. 

You're apologist felating is not resonating with me. 

[Paradis]

3 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Have you watched any Texans games besides the one against the Pats? Davis Mills has been god awful. 

I actually do like the Texans coach tho, his team seems to actually try hard and believe in him. 

They're outplaying us. 

[kdels62]

Just now, Paradis said:

They're outplaying us. 

I can buy that. They’ve also put up under 10 points in 4 of 7 games all with Davis Mills at QB. Our team is younger than the Texans and has a younger staff.  The coaching sucks, the players get a bit longer to show they don’t.

[FidelioJet]

8 minutes ago, Wit said:

The only thing Im questioning  is why give a rookie staff with almost all rookies at their new jobs (ulbrich is a second year coach) an impossible jobs? 

I get why they didnt bring in a vet for Zach, if hes out then we should just lose and get a better draft pick, if hes in dont let the fans scream for Foles. I just dont understand the plan of not having a veteran voice in the entire  BUILDING. Woody is the most experienced in his position at this point. Dumb Dumb WOODY.

Well,

I think they all felt like they would grow together.  It's not like these guys haven't been around the game.  Look, would I have liked to see a veteran OC, I guess..

But the point I'm making is I really don't think having veteran coaching around this very young and mostly garbage veteran roster would change a whole lot.

Going with this level of a youth movement, was always going to be ugly.  Regardless of coaching.

[FidelioJet]

7 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Lol what a load. Take your Montessori speech somewhere else. This is the NFL with 7-figure salaries. We're the most inept team in the NFL meanwhile you got franchises like HOU, PHI and even DET who had nightmare offseason and they're all player better football with worse rosters. 

You're apologist felating is not resonating with me. 

You might not like it.  You're welcome to be angry and have every right to be, you're supporting this garbage (and it is garbage) but it is the reality of the situation - and should have been expected.

It's why you heard JD say multiple times "we're trying to do this the right way" and Saleh often try to temper expectations...

You see, I really don't see what Houston, PHI and DET have to do with the Jets at all.  Every situation of every team in the NFL is different.  

The Jets have the most minutes played by rookies in the league, with a new systems on both sides of the ball (I suspect if I could find 2nd year minutes played Jets would lead in that category too)

Hate it, blame whoever you want, resonate with your or not....You asked and I told you.

 

[56mehl56]

39 minutes ago, Paradis said:

No. 

You and I have been watching football for too long to pass this off as learning BS... HOU's team is worse than ours. Everywhere... and David Mills is playing football that is light years better than Wilson'

It's ignorant at this point to say that this is just a process. I"m sure of that.

C'mon, the Texans beat the Jags with Tyrod  , played one close game against NE and have been blown out in all other games.  Comparing them to the Jets is like comparing Syphilis to Gonorrhea, they both are miserable right now.  

[NIGHT STALKER]

1 hour ago, BP said:

And you don’t  come out of a bye against your bitter rival and only practice two days last week? That’s crazy, it’s like he was complacent and happy with the first 5 games. This was the worst game of the year so far.

I don't really consider them a rival.  When you constantly lose for decades to a team that (with Brady) wins SB's and we win high draft picks, it's tough calling them a rival.  To me, the dolphins will always be our rival...we're almost even head to head and there may be as many Jet fans in FL as there are up north...lol.

[peebag]

15 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

You might not like it.  You're welcome to be angry and have every right to be, you're supporting this garbage (and it is garbage) but it is the reality of the situation - and should have been expected.

It's why you heard JD say multiple times "we're trying to do this the right way" and Saleh often try to temper expectations...

You see, I really don't see what Houston, PHI and DET have to do with the Jets at all.  Every situation of every team in the NFL is different.  

The Jets have the most minutes played by rookies in the league, with a new systems on both sides of the ball (I suspect if I could find 2nd year minutes played Jets would lead in that category too)

Hate it, blame whoever you want, resonate with your or not....You asked and I told you.

 

OK.   Do you think the Jets as a team will be better at the end of the season?

I don't.

I understand that it's a rebuilding process but at this point, I don't see any type of growth from the players nor the coaching staff.

[y2k8]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm glad you asked...

You see, I don't really think there is anyone to blame.  Well, if you really want to find a culprit it's still Mike McCagnan.

Joe Douglas was brought in here 2.5 years ago to do a job that he believed would take a long time to execute.  Literally what  seemed to be a 5 year plan.  He demanded a 6 year contract because he knew what this was going to take.

He sold a plan to the Johnson's that was built on a full tear-down of the the team.  Clearing out deadweight, getting rid of talent that wasn't going to be part of the long-term, acquiring picks and building through the draft. Looking at the crappy contracts on the books - he knew it would basically take 3 years to clean up the crap.  

As I've stated, the team was taken down, by plan, to its bare bones, and this is the first year where the rebuild has now begun.

So, my point is - no one is to blame - what you're watching now is the inevitable floor and a long term plan.  What we're witnessing is the first true rebuild this team has ever made - and it's ugly on the bottom.

Am I worried about JD's first draft, yes.  Am I worried Greg Van Roten is the still the starting RG, yes..

But otherwise I am still a fan of the plan, I am still bullish on ZW, I like this plan, I do think we really just needed to rip off the band-aid - and I'm still, cautiously optimistic about JD's ability to build the roster.

As for the coaches, they've been given a near impossible job...As long as the team doesn't quit it's tough to judge anything they're doing.

I don't disagree with anything but this being Year 1.

It's Year 2 1/2 and he's turned most of the roster over.

Things need to start getting better on the field. 

The Lions are 0-6 but are competitive and are entertaining. You can actually see progress.

We need to see progress here.

[Augustiniak]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.  I think the biggest indictment on this coaching staff thus far is LaFleur and his poor ability to get the right personnel on the field together.  He’s not playing receivers in the right spot and he’s pairing the wrong receivers together.   I’ve been pointing this out since day one of training camp.   LaFleur is trying too hard to be mini Shanahan.  How he’s trying to develop Moore is criminal, absolutely clueless.   

They seem so intent on proving themselves right about moore that they’ve actively delayed the development of mims.  I wonder if the play designs, etc. have been orchestrated for wilson to get it to moore.

[56mehl56]

21 minutes ago, peebag said:

OK.   Do you think the Jets as a team will be better at the end of the season?

I don't.

I understand that it's a rebuilding process but at this point, I don't see any type of growth from the players nor the coaching staff.

Its a short sighted view to take after 6 games. Many of these players are rookies playing their first NFL games and the ones that aren't are playing in new schemes with a few exceptions here and there ( Coleman, Ward etc..). Any reps these guys get goes towards growth and development. Will it look ugly - yes, will it get better - yes , will Jets fans complain if they look better and win a few games dropping draft slots - yes.