One Reason Saleh Is Failing and May Ultimately Fail

[BP]

24 minutes ago, NIGHT STALKER said:

I don't really consider them a rival.  When you constantly lose for decades to a team that (with Brady) wins SB's and we win high draft picks, it's tough calling them a rival.  To me, the dolphins will always be our rival...we're almost even head to head and there may be as many Jet fans in FL as there are up north...lol.

You folks in florida hate the Dolphins more. I get it. But I hate the patriots more than any other team in any other sport. And the Jets continue to bend over and spread their cheeks apart and say “thank you, may I have another?”

The patriots consider Jets week top priority. The Jets. They waited until last Thursday to start practicing after a bye and after playing like a steaming pile of sh*t the previous 5 games. That’s unacceptable 

[peebag]

2 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Its a short sighted view to take after 6 games. Many of these players are rookies playing their first NFL games and the ones that aren't are playing in new schemes with a few exceptions here and there ( Coleman, Ward etc..). Any reps these guys get goes towards growth and development. Will it look ugly - yes, will it get better - yes , will Jets fans complain if they look better and win a few games dropping draft slots - yes. 

When will it get better? 2 games, 4 games, next season?

I thought at best this was a 5 win team this year.  I expected it to be rough. But at this point, I don't see any growth at all.

[RSJ]

All of his answers are wrong. Every one of them.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[FidelioJet]

42 minutes ago, peebag said:

OK.   Do you think the Jets as a team will be better at the end of the season?

I don't.

I understand that it's a rebuilding process but at this point, I don't see any type of growth from the players nor the coaching staff.

I expect the offense to be noticeably better, absolutely.  I expect Zach Wilson to be noticeably better.  Hopefully he'll only misses 2 games.  I think you were going to see a different Wilson yesterday.  I think we already did on those 2nd and 3rd possessions.

Putting last week aside, I'm not sure the D can play a whole lot better than it did with this current roster.  

[56mehl56]

8 minutes ago, peebag said:

When will it get better? 2 games, 4 games, next season?

I thought at best this was a 5 win team this year.  I expected it to be rough. But at this point, I don't see any growth at all.

Obviously losing Zach now stunts some of the growth on offense short term , but the more these guys play together the better.  Its like throwing 5 good musicians together in a band , they may all be very talented but until they practice and gig together the sound may not blend right away.

[FidelioJet]

35 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

I don't disagree with anything but this being Year 1.

It's Year 2 1/2 and he's turned most of the roster over.

Things need to start getting better on the field. 

The Lions are 0-6 but are competitive and are entertaining. You can actually see progress.

We need to see progress here.

Completely agree, progress by the end of the year was necessary...

1) We had to play BB twice.  He's ruthless with this kind of stuff and specializes in it.  

2) It sucks because I liked what ZW had going yesterday.  He's going to need work but I am honestly confident you'll get a couple of complete games out of him where we put up 30...still make some mistakes but he's going to be explosive, just going to take some time with him.

The Jets did win a game - and were right in the Atlanta game.....

[56mehl56]

3 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I expect the offense to be noticeably better, absolutely.  I expect Zach Wilson to be noticeably better.  Hopefully he'll only misses 2 games.  I think you were going to see a different Wilson yesterday.  I think we already did on those 2nd and 3rd possessions.

Putting last week aside, I'm not sure the D can play a whole lot better than it did with this current roster.  

What really disappointed me was the play of the Dline yesterday . I know w/o any real LB'ers it make their jobs much more difficult, but they are the one unit that isn't decimated by injury and has the most NFL experience. They continually got gashed up the middle and lost contain on countless gadget and misdirection plays. 

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

What really disappointed me was the play of the Dline yesterday . I know w/o any real LB'ers it make their jobs much more difficult, but they are the one unit that isn't decimated by injury and has the most NFL experience. They continually got gashed up the middle and lost contain on countless gadget and misdirection plays. 

Our DL, like usual, is highly over rated by our fan base.

The media and our fans want to keep turning QW into a special player.  He isn't.  He's nice and def. a nice to have but he's not a center piece of a defense.  

I would trade him tomorrow for a top 25 G or a top 15 TE.

[Augustiniak]

5 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

What really disappointed me was the play of the Dline yesterday . I know w/o any real LB'ers it make their jobs much more difficult, but they are the one unit that isn't decimated by injury and has the most NFL experience. They continually got gashed up the middle and lost contain on countless gadget and misdirection plays. 

2 weeks off and the first series of the game.  They looked unprepared and outcoached.  Looked like a team that knew it was going to lose.  The coaches do not inspire these players at all.

[sciond]

I was sure the answer was going to be he sucks at coaching. 

[peekskill68]

3 hours ago, JTJet said:

Theres a reason for that. 

Saleh isnt the guy and apparently never was to begin with. 

Generally, the top dogs arent the cheerleader type, they rarely can be, because they have the weight of responsibility on their shoulders. (Belicheck, Saban, Phil Jackson, etc)

Cheerleading motivational types can be like they are because most of the time they arent the ones the buck stops with. At least this is what I've seen from my military days and management days.

It seems Saleh is finding out that being the top dog isnt being an assistant coach, dude looks lost as sh*t on the sideline. 

Meanwhile his buddy Lafleur is calling plays 40 yards away standing down field where he cant see sh*t.

Interesting observation.  Reminds me of Pete Carroll with the Jets.   Total rah-rah guy who Hess canned in one year for a known entity named Rich Kotite...

[rangerous]

parcell went 3-13 his first season and he had a more talented and cohesive team than this current jets squad.  he vowed he would never make the same mistake.  let's hope saleh has the same ability.

[TheMo]

3 hours ago, Paradis said:

1000000000000000%

I'll say it again. Give me Dave toub bitches!! Or better yet Doug pederson. No more rookies and if we go that route we need the manager type not another coordinator masquerading as a HC. Time will tell though, maybe Saleh learns and adapts. That would be refreshing lol!

[TheMo]

10 minutes ago, rangerous said:

parcell went 3-13 his first season and he had a more talented and cohesive team than this current jets squad.  he vowed he would never make the same mistake.  let's hope saleh has the same ability.

The fee for renting space in my head will be 500 dollars a night thank you ?

[ChuckkieB]

This is the most frustrated I've ever been as a fan of this team, which began in the mid 70's.  I didn't expect a playoff team this year, but I did expect to watch a competitive team and see some growth from our young players and a coming together of the latest rebuild vision.  There is none of that going on here so far this season, and quite frankly, not much if any at all during the entire Joe Douglas era.  We all suffer from battered wife syndrome. We make excuses time after time for our coaches, our players, and the front office for every misstep and blunder they make. We try to extract the smallest of positives from a consistently replenished pile of negatives, fooling ourselves into false hope.  After a few years, we finally turn on the most recent failed rebuild, and scream from the rooftops to start over.  The GM, the coaches, and players are then reshuffled, and then we start the cycle over of making excuses for the next batch.  When the hell are the Jets  going to get the rebuild right???? 

This team is currently an abomination from top to bottom.  There is literally no silver lining here.  Nothing to root for. We see teams year after year that change their front office, change their HC, and change their QB, and more times than not, teams seem to get al least one if not more of these changes and decisions right, and manage to shift their franchise to be pointing in the right direction and give a little hope to their fanbase. This Jets team has been stuck in the mud for the last 10+ years with no escape currently in sight. Joe Douglas has NOT been a good GM.  Saleh has been a TERRIBLE coach.  Mike Lafleur is an ABOMINABLE OC, and Zack Wilson has been a TERRIBLE QB, and the shortcomings of each contributes to the other being even more terrible than they should be! 

How many times can the Jets shuffle these 4 positions and get every single one wrong???????  ITS BEEN OVER 10 FRIGGIN YEARS!!!!!  I want to pull my f'n hair out!!!!! How much time and emotion can we keep investing in a team where there is NEVER any kind of payoff??????  

[jetstream23]

6 hours ago, Paradis said:

What? 

The only real tangible reason he's on his way down with the ship right now - is he made an incredibly naive mistake of hitching his BYU rookie QB to an OC with barely more experience than I have -- and asked him to raise a phoenix from the ashes (Jets O)... 

That was **** stupid. He should have been trying to find a bunch of established people. Not just one passing-game coordinator. 

It's almost incredible how the Jets have gotten the QB development plan wrong with not one, but two consecutive Top 3 draft picks.  Regardless of whether Darnold or Wilson are good QBs it doesn't absolve the Jets from the fact that they never got the support structure and plan around the QBs correct.  Under Bowles and Gase there was never a dedicated QB coach, and the Jets relied on Dowell Loggains to help Darnold.  The team also never surrounded him with a good OLine or offensive weapons.

I thought JD realized the Jets screwed up in their plan and support for Darnold and that he'd get it right this time.  The tragic loss of Gregg Knapp aside, this idea to have a rookie Head Coach overseeing a first-time OC who is developing a rookie QB just looks like a really underthought and risky plan.  It's now backfiring.

Think about the debates surrounding Darnold the past few years.  Is Darnold bad?  Is it Gase and Loggains who don't know what they're doing?  Is it that the Jets OLine is ranked #31 in the NFL and we have Chris Hoggains as WR1 for 5 weeks?  There were SO MANY unknowns and question marks you couldn't assess the other pieces.  It was the biggest cause of debate.

We're doing the same thing again.  Does Wilson suck?  Is it the OC?  Is it GVR or not having a stud rushing attack?  Is there one problem, two, three...?  When you have a proven OC or a known offensive expert like a Sean Payton, an Andy Reid, etc. then if the QB fails you kinda know it's the QB and not the coaching.  We don't know that here yet.

 

[SOJ]

6 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm glad you asked...

You see, I don't really think there is anyone to blame.  Well, if you really want to find a culprit it's still Mike McCagnan.

Joe Douglas was brought in here 2.5 years ago to do a job that he believed would take a long time to execute.  Literally what  seemed to be a 5 year plan.  He demanded a 6 year contract because he knew what this was going to take.

He sold a plan to the Johnson's that was built on a full tear-down of the the team.  Clearing out deadweight, getting rid of talent that wasn't going to be part of the long-term, acquiring picks and building through the draft. Looking at the crappy contracts on the books - he knew it would basically take 3 years to clean up the crap.  

As I've stated, the team was taken down, by plan, to its bare bones, and this is the first year where the rebuild has now begun.

So, my point is - no one is to blame - what you're watching now is the inevitable floor and a long term plan.  What we're witnessing is the first true rebuild this team has ever made - and it's ugly on the bottom.

Am I worried about JD's first draft, yes.  Am I worried Greg Van Roten is the still the starting RG, yes..

But otherwise I am still a fan of the plan, I am still bullish on ZW, I like this plan, I do think we really just needed to rip off the band-aid - and I'm still, cautiously optimistic about JD's ability to build the roster.

As for the coaches, they've been given a near impossible job...As long as the team doesn't quit it's tough to judge anything they're doing.

Well by you account there should be some progress, right?  I see is a team that is a shell of what it was during the 1st game and the Titian game.  Frankly, the team is regressing and may have hit rock bottom yesterday but I seriously doubt that with Cinn and then Indy coming in the next two weeks.  

I have no trust, that has to be earned, that this CS as presently constituted has the capacity to correct the dysfunction that they helped create.  

Stay the course but this is what I think of the HC: I stop listening to the HC pressers weeks ago when the same excuses were used for another bad performance. IMHO, an I wanted him; however, he is fast, as in very fast, becoming the latest example of JET coaches who fit the mold of "Peter's Principle."

[Ecuadorian Jet]

6 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

You might not like it.  You're welcome to be angry and have every right to be, you're supporting this garbage (and it is garbage) but it is the reality of the situation - and should have been expected.

It's why you heard JD say multiple times "we're trying to do this the right way" and Saleh often try to temper expectations...

You see, I really don't see what Houston, PHI and DET have to do with the Jets at all.  Every situation of every team in the NFL is different.  

The Jets have the most minutes played by rookies in the league, with a new systems on both sides of the ball (I suspect if I could find 2nd year minutes played Jets would lead in that category too)

Hate it, blame whoever you want, resonate with your or not....You asked and I told you.

 

it is not the players that are the absolute failure as much as it is the coaches, this team is not poorly coached, is not coached at all.

[FidelioJet]

11 hours ago, SOJ said:

Well by you account there should be some progress, right?  I see is a team that is a shell of what it was during the 1st game and the Titian game.  Frankly, the team is regressing and may have hit rock bottom yesterday but I seriously doubt that with Cinn and then Indy coming in the next two weeks.  

I have no trust, that has to be earned, that this CS as presently constituted has the capacity to correct the dysfunction that they helped create.  

Stay the course but this is what I think of the HC: I stop listening to the HC pressers weeks ago when the same excuses were used for another bad performance. IMHO, an I wanted him; however, he is fast, as in very fast, becoming the latest example of JET coaches who fit the mold of "Peter's Principle."

I think last week was a bit of an aberration for a couple of reasons...

1) Last week the defense clearly had a bad day - about as bad a day as I've ever seen from a defense.  but they've been mostly good.  I'm not sure having one bad day can be called regression.  I think losing Mosley really hurt.  and BB was smart enough to attack the exact part of the game in which Mosley excels.

2) I actually think the offense did show progress on Sunday when ZW was in.  I know I've repeated this many times already but ZW put them in position to score on two of their first three drives.  That's massive progress.  ZW going down, of course changed everything.  The play calling and execution of the OL on that first drive, after a bye week, on plays that were scripted is a bit baffling though.

Lastly, this team is so young - between coaching and players that we shouldn't expect to see straight line growth, it's going to ups and downs - but the team should continue to get better...I've used two small steps up, one step backwards type of growth.  It's going to be slow process.

[FidelioJet]

11 hours ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

it is not the players that are the absolute failure as much as it is the coaches, this team is not poorly coached, is not coached at all.

Whily they were clearly out coached yesterday I just think the level of talent and inexperience is by far the bigger culprit on this team.

You need good and experiences players to win the in NFL and the Jets have almost none of them.  

Other than ZW they have no truly explosive playmakers ('m not saying ZW has been playing well, but that he has shown that explosive type of talent) Moore has been a disappointment, QW has been a disappointment, Carter has been a disappointment, Mims has been a disappointment.  I thought all of those guys had potential to be explosive - but when watching them play I haven't seen anything exceptional.  Even Moore, his speed - while good - doesn't stand out as elite (maybe that can change if he starts playing faster)

[Ecuadorian Jet]

53 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Whily they were clearly out coached yesterday I just think the level of talent and inexperience is by far the bigger culprit on this team.

You need good and experiences players to win the in NFL and the Jets have almost none of them.  

Other than ZW they have no truly explosive playmakers ('m not saying ZW has been playing well, but that he has shown that explosive type of talent) Moore has been a disappointment, QW has been a disappointment, Carter has been a disappointment, Mims has been a disappointment.  I thought all of those guys had potential to be explosive - but when watching them play I haven't seen anything exceptional.  Even Moore, his speed - while good - doesn't stand out as elite (maybe that can change if he starts playing faster)

Yet time and time again, players who leave the Jets go on to have at least decent careers elsewhere. I am not that old but I can remember Vilma, who after being named rookie of the year was shipped out. I think there is a LB named Farrior who was pretty good in Pittsburgh after he left the Jets, and there are many more. We, as fans, have been pressured into thinking that X guy who left was not a fit. The truth is that we haven´t had good coaches in a really long time that have exploded the potential of the guys already in the room. Lately, we havent even had good evaluators. 

Even if the guys we do have are not explosive as you say, still sound un-electrifying football should be exposed. We do not see that. Saleh and his staff are con artists. They are not fit for the jobs they are getting multiple millions of dollars for.  

[The Crusher]

18 hours ago, BP said:

You folks in florida hate the Dolphins more. I get it. But I hate the patriots more than any other team in any other sport. And the Jets continue to bend over and spread their cheeks apart and say “thank you, may I have another?”

The patriots consider Jets week top priority. The Jets. They waited until last Thursday to start practicing after a bye and after playing like a steaming pile of sh*t the previous 5 games. That’s unacceptable 

Yep, every single one of them. 

[WestCoastOffensive]

On 10/25/2021 at 10:15 AM, Paradis said:

What? 

The only real tangible reason he's on his way down with the ship right now - is he made an incredibly naive mistake of hitching his BYU rookie QB to an OC with barely more experience than I have -- and asked him to raise a phoenix from the ashes (Jets O)... 

That was **** stupid. He should have been trying to find a bunch of established people. Not just one passing-game coordinator. 

great stuff; Woody didn't learn from the decisions to start Darnold over McCown (he was in UK duh). But still McCown was the only guy in last 5 years to drive the train like a real QB.

Anyway you nailed it. 

[WestCoastOffensive]

On 10/25/2021 at 12:42 PM, peebag said:

When will it get better? 2 games, 4 games, next season?

I thought at best this was a 5 win team this year.  I expected it to be rough. But at this point, I don't see any growth at all.

I see growth; I can't shave the hairs under my lips because I'm chronically slack-jawed, watching this mess of a season.

Gaped by the JETS; Carl had it right.

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

On 10/25/2021 at 1:18 PM, Saul Goodman said:

Saleh looked rattled and lost on the sideline. I posted this in the game thread but the Jets have already broken him. He looks nothing like the guy we hired. 

[JohnnyLV]

On 10/25/2021 at 10:15 AM, hawk said:

The offensive facets appear to be improving with experience, however, as you stated, it is an offensive league; Have to have a QB!

Wilson has been worse than just a rookie, and obviously, White is also inexperienced in more ways than one.  

I do not wholly buy that. Lafleur is not putting Zach in a place to succeed

[Bronx]

On 10/25/2021 at 1:15 PM, Paradis said:

What? 

The only real tangible reason he's on his way down with the ship right now - is he made an incredibly naive mistake of hitching his BYU rookie QB to an OC with barely more experience than I have -- and asked him to raise a phoenix from the ashes (Jets O)... 

That was **** stupid. He should have been trying to find a bunch of established people. Not just one passing-game coordinator. 

He will gain some respect If he fires Pepe Le Pew.

[HighPitch]

Thats how i feel… helpless

[HighPitch]

On 10/25/2021 at 5:01 PM, peekskill68 said:

Interesting observation.  Reminds me of Pete Carroll with the Jets.   Total rah-rah guy who Hess canned in one year for a known entity named Rich Kotite...

That went on to win a super bowl

[Dcat]

3 hours ago, WestCoastOffensive said:

I see growth; I can't shave the hairs under my lips because I'm chronically slack-jawed, watching this mess of a season.

Gaped by the JETS; Carl had it right.

Carl no longer has to endure this suffering.  RIP.

As forWoody Johnson and the Jets front office once again bringing in totally incompetent coaching all I can say is

[WestCoastOffensive]

BTW if Belichick ever had 54 hung on him, 53 other people would be running the stairs

[Smashmouth]

On 10/25/2021 at 1:35 PM, Paradis said:

They're outplaying us. 

our defense is decimated with injuries but in all honesty the offense has been the worst I have ever seen as a Jets fan and that obviously can't help things.

[rox]

- Yeah, Jimmy Johnson started out 1-15, and Bill Parcells started out 3-12-1, and both are in the Hall of Fame. But then again, a lot of really bad coaches started out with really bad records, too.

--  https://nypost.com/2021/10/27/jets-robert-saleh-needs-to-start-coaching-like-a-head-coach/

[JTJet]

On 10/25/2021 at 3:58 PM, 56mehl56 said:

Obviously losing Zach now stunts some of the growth on offense short term , but the more these guys play together the better.  Its like throwing 5 good musicians together in a band , they may all be very talented but until they practice and gig together the sound may not blend right away.

The problem with this analogy is we dont have 5 good musicians to start with. 

[islesmb]

He just needed to grow a beard apparently…