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Jets Trade for Flacco


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46 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Fair assessment Clashfan.  My guess is he probably didn't want to triple dip on the OL in the first draft.  Remember, we did draft Cameron Clark as a development player as well.  He also signed a bunch of OL, but they all didn't work out.   I don't get how Roten has fallen off a cliff, but it happens.   I actually like our WR core, but how Mims has been handled is dumbfounding, and Moore isn't getting targeted.  Wilson seems locked too much onto Davis.  I believe Davis' drops might be part of that; too much pressure to be THE guy on the team when it was suppose to be an even distribution given the talent.   

I think we have players in Fant, Becton, and Tucker.  I think we should be signing either two starting guards or one and a center, and then drafting the other position we don't sign.   My idea of 5-6 years is ideal, but in reality and today's NFL, it probably won't happen.  But I think he gets 2023 as well, since his first season was more managing the roster he inherited rather than actually doing anything to make it his.  

I didn't think it would happen, but DWC called it; first four picks this year on offence.  Tucker is working out, and I think Moore and Carter have talent, but are being completely stifled by bad O-line play.  I just have no clue on how to judge Wilson.  He seems to ooze talent, but he looks awful.  Is it the fact he has talent but isn't ready for the NFL, is it the bad team around him, is it coaching, or does he have talent but is just not good enough for the NFL?  No clue.  

This was my sentiment as well through all the lows and I kept saying, just be patient they have a plan, but after what has transpired so far this season the negatives are starting to pile up on JD and they now outweigh the positives. 

The Morgan pick, the Zuniga pick,  no veteran back up for a rookie QB, wet behind the ears OC, this whole Flacco debacle. It reeks of incompetence. My faith in JD is wavering.

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3 hours ago, GreenFish said:

Flacco, while not great, is better than Mike White. And he does what Zach has struggled with early in his career. Flacco takes the easy throws but can pop a deep ball every now and then.

Im not expecting wins, but Zach can learn something from Flacco. Watching a veteran guy take what the defense gives him will hopefully open Zach’s eyes a bit.

More of the optimistic view stuff.

If he can benefit from that now, why couldn't have have benefitted from it all offseason and all of the previous games?

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8 minutes ago, undertow said:

Why does it seem like the same people who are obsessed about 4th rounders and cried because we traded into the top 10 think this is a smart move and drafting Morgan with a 4th was a good move?

I can get past the draft pick (though clearly I'm not loving it, as no one is). They have so many draft high draft picks that it's really easy to recoup a high 5th or high 6th. I half-figure them to trade out until next year with at least one of their picks, and with so many players due to become UFAs they'll probably be up for a couple extra comp picks a year later, too.

It's more that this is such an obvious panic move to highlight how wrong he was from the start. He left no wiggle room to put anyone but Wilson out there no matter what. Douglas further felt that, at a few positions, he could get at least one year's production from the winners of his King of the Dipshits competitions at RG, QB2, TE, and in the secondary.

Other teams get by with some vet minimum starters, so why should the Jets have to pay so much when others don't, right? Except they're not all doing that simultaneously with so many rookie players and rookie coaches/coordinators inserting new schemes and a new playbook, making it less than a subtle difference.

His reasoning may have seemed smart in some regards -- my guess thus far has been that he had so much upcoming cap space and so many upcoming high draft picks in '22 that he didn't want to "waste" resources on this throwaway '21 season.

Except it wasn't all smart. He should have seen those as luxuries he could afford in the other direction: he had more to trade away for more-sure things starting now to help his rookie QB and rookie coaches. Otherwise what's he planning, to start 7+ more rookies while also blowing out FA spending in that same '22 offseason? More likely he's got the idea trading one or more so he can keep this pipeline going of doubling up on day 1 and/or early day 2 for as long as he can ride it.

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Everyone knew that Wilson would get hurt this season.   Statistically, Jets and NFL QBs do not play 16 games/season.  A 2-4 week injury is not that bad.  So Wilson gets hurt and you trade a draft pick to take on Flacco's salary.  

It makes no sense at all.  

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13 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I can get past the draft pick (though clearly I'm not loving it, as no one is). They have so many draft high draft picks that it's really easy to recoup a high 5th or high 6th. I half-figure them to trade out until next year with at least one of their picks, and with so many players due to become UFAs they'll probably be up for a couple extra comp picks a year later, too.

It's more that this is such an obvious panic move to highlight how wrong he was from the start. He left no wiggle room to put anyone but Wilson out there no matter what. Douglas further felt that, at a few positions, he could get at least one year's production from the winners of his King of the Dipsh*ts competitions at RG, QB2, TE, and in the secondary.

Other teams get by with some vet minimum starters, so why should the Jets have to pay so much when others don't, right? Except they're not all doing that simultaneously with so many rookie players and rookie coaches/coordinators inserting new schemes and a new playbook, making it less than a subtle difference.

His reasoning may have seemed smart in some regards -- my guess thus far has been that he had so much upcoming cap space and so many upcoming high draft picks in '22 that he didn't want to "waste" resources on this throwaway '21 season.

Except it wasn't all smart. He should have seen those as luxuries he could afford in the other direction: he had more to trade away for more-sure things starting now to help his rookie QB and rookie coaches. Otherwise what's he planning, to start 7+ more rookies while also blowing out FA spending in that same '22 offseason? More likely he's got the idea trading one or more so he can keep this pipeline going of doubling up on day 1 and/or early day 2 for as long as he can ride it.

I agree 100 percent with your post I just bet the same people who are on board with how JD handled the back up QB position will be repeating the word value 10 thousand times come draft season. 

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3 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

If Mike White can not start 2 to 4 games while Wilson is injured, why is he the back-up QB? Isn't that why he's there? 

Seriously, WTF guys?

Thank you...

The Jets always act like they are smarter than everyone else in the NFL and it just amazes me!

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30 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Thank you...

The Jets always act like they are smarter than everyone else in the NFL and it just amazes me!

I think the plan is Flacco to backup White.  At this point, I don't care. Wake me up when Zach is back on the field trying to follow LaFleur's random scripts.  Fun.

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Okay this is the kind of sh-t inching me closer to the Joe Must Go bandwagon (still not there by any stretch but like anything the final straw ). How the fukk does he not sign Flacco or someone else you trust in the offseason where you needn't give up draft capital.


Because he wanted to start Zach Wilson, and if Flacco was here day one there’s no way to justify that to the locker room players who are there to win games.


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Jets clearly need to stop with the "all eggs in one basket" QB philosophy. Like they are afraid to "hurt his psyche" to bring in a legit QB2.
For God's sakes, hedge a little bit. Bring in a young(ish) vet with upside and draft a QB. Jets history has proven all or nothing always results in nothing. The one time we tried this (Bridge and Darnold), Macc outsmarted himself by trading away Teddy before the season for an "easy return" of a draft pick that I'm sure he used to draft garbage later.
No excuse for a Trubisky/Minshew type not to be on this roster. None accept JD's arrogant incompetence.


It has nothing to do with Wilson’s psyche, they just didn’t want a better QB on the roster because it would make them look bad if they started Flacco over their prized pick because Flacco will flat out outplay Wilson, and if they do start Wilson over Flacco anyway they would lose credibility in the locker room. If Flacco stays healthy he’ll be the starter until we’re mathematically eliminated


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57 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

 


It has nothing to do with Wilson’s psyche, they just didn’t want a better QB on the roster because it would make them look bad if they started Flacco over their prized pick because Flacco will flat out outplay Wilson, and if they do start Wilson over Flacco anyway they would lose credibility in the locker room. If Flacco stays healthy he’ll be the starter until we’re mathematically eliminated


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As long as you admit the reason — whatever it was — is idiotic, I don’t care about specific points of potential minor disagreement.

PS: I am not saying that’s the reason. I am repeating in a mocking tone (hence the quotes) what many Zachians state as a truism: that one cannot subject a highly-drafted rookie QB to competition from within lest he be “ruined.”

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5 hours ago, undertow said:

I agree 100 percent with your post I just bet the same people who are on board with how JD handled the back up QB position will be repeating the word value 10 thousand times come draft season. 

Lol

Again, with the Jets having so much draft capital - probably as much as the bottom 3-4 teams have combined in their ~25 original draft picks - that recouping a high 5th or high 6th is a rounding error. 

It’s more that he was gambling tossing a QB out there before he was nearly ready, playing for an OC who may not be ready, who is himself working under a HC who may not be ready. And being so dismissive of the stabilizing effect a veteran QB - particularly one with experience in this exact offense - can have on a really young team. That’s the “value” that was missed as much as anything. 

It’s more than draft value or even the value of wins/losses. They’ve got dozens of others on this team they’re supposed to be grooming for some noisemaking in ‘22 or at worst ‘23. 

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7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Lol

Again, with the Jets having so much draft capital - probably as much as the bottom 3-4 teams have combined in their ~25 original draft picks - that recouping a high 5th or high 6th is a rounding error. 

It’s more that he was gambling tossing a QB out there before he was nearly ready, playing for an OC who may not be ready, who is himself working under a HC who may not be ready. And being so dismissive of the stabilizing effect a veteran QB - particularly one with experience in this exact offense - can have on a really young team. That’s the “value” that was missed as much as anything. 

It’s more than draft value or even the value of wins/losses. They’ve got dozens of others on this team they’re supposed to be grooming for some noisemaking in ‘22 or at worst ‘23. 

Ok cool no more crying about 4th round picks then we agree. lol

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1 hour ago, Snell41 said:

 


It has nothing to do with Wilson’s psyche, they just didn’t want a better QB on the roster because it would make them look bad if they started Flacco over their prized pick because Flacco will flat out outplay Wilson, and if they do start Wilson over Flacco anyway they would lose credibility in the locker room. If Flacco stays healthy he’ll be the starter until we’re mathematically eliminated


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Have you actually watched joe flacco play the last few years?  He sucks, he made a couple deep throws and lost all games as a jet and suddenly he is something.  Flacco is probably no better than mike white.

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5 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Have you actually watched joe flacco play the last few years?  He sucks, he made a couple deep throws and lost all games as a jet and suddenly he is something.  Flacco is probably no better than mike white.

He just looked semi-good because Sam , Fales and Falk looked so bad. 

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23 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Lol

Again, with the Jets having so much draft capital - probably as much as the bottom 3-4 teams have combined in their ~25 original draft picks - that recouping a high 5th or high 6th is a rounding error. 

It’s more that he was gambling tossing a QB out there before he was nearly ready, playing for an OC who may not be ready, who is himself working under a HC who may not be ready. And being so dismissive of the stabilizing effect a veteran QB - particularly one with experience in this exact offense - can have on a really young team. That’s the “value” that was missed as much as anything. 

It’s more than draft value or even the value of wins/losses. They’ve got dozens of others on this team they’re supposed to be grooming for some noisemaking in ‘22 or at worst ‘23. 

Rounding error:

Guess what round the following players were drafted in?

Bryce Hall (one of our few good picks lately)

George Kittle

Matt Judon

Tyreek Hill

Corey Linsley

Grady Jarrett

Stefon Diggs

All picks have value.  Tossing one away because you screwed up on a 100% predicable and correctable error is bad GMing.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, undertow said:

Ok cool no more crying about 4th round picks then we agree. lol

It’s fair to “cry” about them when they look like dumb picks on draft day and then the players proceed to flop. I’m not a draft guru so I kind of follow others on that. I do like to critique negatively in hindsight, though. Makes me feel all superior & stuff. Also I’m never wrong that way.

Seriouisly though, there’s so much wrong here that an extra mid-round pick next year (and if it’s our very high 5th rounder, that qualifies as a mid-round pick) is a rounding error. I’m going to need evidence in the future that this lost pick affected the team in any significant way. It’d have to be a real coup of a selection to see the field ahead of the returning high ‘20-21 picks, the returning veterans, the additional veterans they sign, as well as the four top-50 selections and the 3rd & two 4th rounders picked ahead of that high 5th (if the pick is that high). 

I’m not faulting him for making this trade now; I do fault him for putting the roster in this position in the first place. Who ****ing backs up a rookie QB with just one guy who’s never taken an NFL snap, on a young team with wildly inexperienced coaches all around, all playing in this offense for the first time?

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7 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Rounding error:

Guess what round the following players were drafted in?

Bryce Hall (one of our few good picks lately)

George Kittle

Matt Judon

Tyreek Hill

Corey Linsley

Grady Jarrett

Stefon Diggs

All picks have value.  Tossing one away because you screwed up on a 100% predicable and correctable error is bad GMing.

You’re missing my point. I don’t like throwing away any picks. But they have 10 of them, including what looks to be 4 in the top 50 plus a 3rd plus two 4ths. On top of the 10 players drafted last year, and all the veterans they’re returning and newly signing. 

Given that context, t is a rounding error.

Also how many years does one have to go back to cherry-pick this many 5th rounders among the hundreds drafted in that round over that same span?

I’ve got plenty of complaints about how this season was handled, and no way is this a good look. That said, leaving the Jets with a mere 9 draft picks instead of 10, where 7 of those 9 are higher than the one traded away, isn’t going to crack my top 10 Jets mistakes & misfires from 2021. 

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You’re missing my point. I don’t like throwing away any picks. But they have 10 of them, including what looks to be 4 in the top 50 plus a 3rd plus two 4ths. On top of the 10 players drafted last year, and all the veterans they’re returning and newly signing. 

Given that context, t is a rounding error.

Also how many years does one have to go back to cherry-pick this many 5th rounders among the hundreds drafted in that round over that same span?

I’ve got plenty of complaints about how this season was handled, and no way is this a good look. That said, leaving the Jets with a mere 9 draft picks instead of 10, where 7 of those 9 are higher than the one traded away, isn’t going to crack my top 10 Jets mistakes & misfires from 2021. 

Not long if you look at that list.  Look at the players.

Because we have a raft of high picks does not even one ounce make me feel better about what I perceive as a flat out bungle on the part of the coaches and gm.  If we actually brought in a guy with more rubber on the tire than joe friggin flacco for a 5th rounder.  This goes along with the wasted 4th rounder on morgan when there were tons of serviceable or better guys out there.

This looks like a flat out panic move.

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5 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Have you actually watched joe flacco play the last few years?  He sucks, he made a couple deep throws and lost all games as a jet and suddenly he is something.  Flacco is probably no better than mike white.

Gutless CYA move by JD. 

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7 hours ago, jgb said:

As long as you admit the reason — whatever it was — is idiotic, I don’t care about specific points of potential minor disagreement.

PS: I am not saying that’s the reason. I am repeating in a mocking tone (hence the quotes) what many Zachians state as a truism: that one cannot subject a highly-drafted rookie QB to competition from within lest he be “ruined.”

there are plenty of examples of rookie QBs having no competition. 

the bills got rid of Tyrod Taylor for Josh Allen. Jax got rid of Minshew for Trevor. Burrow had the same as us. a rookie QB as his backup.

Dak started day 1 and he was a 4th rd pick.

there seams to be no right way to do it. but since it didnt work out for us this way i guess the other way was right? 

and we are far from knowing if this failed with Zach. for all we know Flacco could have started the first 5 games and Zach still would have struggles for his first 5. 

and there are no competitions for high drafted QBs.

Kurt Warner had the giants at 5-4 in the middle of a playoff run and they sat him cause Eli had to play. and Eli went 1-6. did sitting help Eli? could he be any worst then what he was those 7 games? how come the veteran presence of future HOF Warner mentor him to be better?

again i  dont think there is a right way but lets not sit here and act like what we did by starting Zach day 1 and giving him no competition is some crazy idea that never works. and in the end it just might work for us too.

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4 hours ago, doitny said:

there are plenty of examples of rookie QBs having no competition. 

the bills got rid of Tyrod Taylor for Josh Allen. Jax got rid of Minshew for Trevor. Burrow had the same as us. a rookie QB as his backup.

Dak started day 1 and he was a 4th rd pick.

there seams to be no right way to do it. but since it didnt work out for us this way i guess the other way was right? 

and we are far from knowing if this failed with Zach. for all we know Flacco could have started the first 5 games and Zach still would have struggles for his first 5. 

and there are no competitions for high drafted QBs.

Kurt Warner had the giants at 5-4 in the middle of a playoff run and they sat him cause Eli had to play. and Eli went 1-6. did sitting help Eli? could he be any worst then what he was those 7 games? how come the veteran presence of future HOF Warner mentor him to be better?

again i  dont think there is a right way but lets not sit here and act like what we did by starting Zach day 1 and giving him no competition is some crazy idea that never works. and in the end it just might work for us too.

I know there are plenty of examples of rookie QBs having no "competition" (why I use quotes will become apparent in next paragraph). That doesn't mean having it will ruin them. In fact, I don't think having or not having will impact their future at all. If a rookie's psyche is broken by the presence of a reclamation-project QB, then he ain't got the intestinal fortitude to be a FQB anyway.

And people keep saying "competition." That's not what I'm saying. It's simply smart team management to have a hedge/injury insurance for an unknown rookie QB, especially when you have the responsibility to evaluate a very young team, which becomes impossible with garbage QB play. As @Sellis92 has said, I think a lot of this is self-protectionism by JD to avoid the situation where his #2 overall pick gets outshined by a reclamation project like Trubisky/Minshew. I posit that this approach is not in the team's best interest and in fact has now put us into a situation where JD is making hail mary mid-season acquisitions to cover for actions/non-actions taken in the off-season that were obvious mistakes at the time.

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10 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Not long if you look at that list.  Look at the players.

Because we have a raft of high picks does not even one ounce make me feel better about what I perceive as a flat out bungle on the part of the coaches and gm.  If we actually brought in a guy with more rubber on the tire than joe friggin flacco for a 5th rounder.  This goes along with the wasted 4th rounder on morgan when there were tons of serviceable or better guys out there.

This looks like a flat out panic move.

I said myself above it’s a panic move, using that wording exactly. I don’t think anyone would dispute that; it clearly is, otherwise they’d have merely activated Josh Johnson to QB2 (or picked up any current FA, a couple of whom are better anyway) until Wilson returns.

What it’s saying is this team is in sore need of leadership on offense. No one seriously thinks this team has a snowball’s chance in hell of making the playoffs, even though they’re not mathematically eliminated at this early juncture.

Or anyway, it’s 90% the above, and 10% that he just wanted Flacco from back in the spring anyway, and figures with all the picks they have - all the high picks at that - that he’d rather part with a 5th/6th rounder than $3.5MM that would’ve been double if he started all or most of the season.

Anyway the point wasn’t that I care not about possibly trading a 5th rounder to borrow Joe Flacco for up to 10 games. It’s that given the rest of their resources on hand it’s so insignificant when weighed against the rest of the team’s problems. 

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3 hours ago, jgb said:

I know there are plenty of examples of rookie QBs having no "competition" (why I use quotes will become apparent in next paragraph). That doesn't mean having it will ruin them. In fact, I don't think having or not having will impact their future at all. If a rookie's psyche is broken by the presence of a reclamation-project QB, then he ain't got the intestinal fortitude to be a FQB anyway.

And people keep saying "competition." That's not what I'm saying. It's simply smart team management to have a hedge/injury insurance for an unknown rookie QB, especially when you have the responsibility to evaluate a very young team, which becomes impossible with garbage QB play. As @Snell41 has said, I think a lot of this is self-protectionism by JD to avoid the situation where his #2 overall pick gets outshined by a reclamation project like Trubisky/Minshew. I posit that this approach is not in the team's best interest and in fact has now put us into a situation where JD is making hail mary mid-season acquisitions to cover for actions/non-actions taken in the off-season that were obvious mistakes at the time.

oh i agree it is self-protectionism. but everyone does it. in fact i cant think of a situation where a team brought in someone who could give there QB competition. thats why your talking about Trubisky and Minshew, there teams got rid of them for the same reason.

and i agree again about outshining. nobody wants that. just imagine if those guys came here and went 3-3 and then we force Zach in and he goes 1-5. there would be a QB controversy . people would think that Wilson is a bust. thats an unforced error.

so we are in agreement, except for blaming JD. if Urban Meyer was here we would have done the same thing. look around the NFL and EVERYBODY does it. Arizona brought in Brett Hundley to compete with Murray. the Rams brought in Sean Mannion for Goff. they all do it.

so if your looking for smart team management then i dont know where you go for it but if JD wasn't here whoever was would have done the same thing.

as i do research for this i see there is no wiley old vet brought in either. so for all the people who think Flacco should have been here from day one well again nobody does it.

Murray (Hundley), Goff (Mannion), Mayfield (Taylor), Allen(Peterman), Lawrence( CJ. Beathard), Watson(Savage),Big Ben(Maddox), Burrow (Allen, Finely)

they are a bunch of mostly young nobodys. and the one team who has 2 vets in Chicago ( Foles and Daulton) and Fields looks no better than Zach.

so you cant blame JD when he did what every other GM does. 

 

 

 

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On 10/26/2021 at 12:40 AM, FidelioJet said:

 ZW was always going to be the starter...It was clear JD didn't want a QB controversy. 

This team was never winning with or without Gardner Minshew.  

 

On 10/26/2021 at 12:22 AM, docdhc said:

No one is winning anything with Minshew. One jag vet qb is the same as another. If Wilson doesn’t develop nothing else really matters. 

Yeah! We don't believe in incremental improvements. If any move won't single-handedly make us a contender, useless!

Seriously? Jets fans of all people taking an "all or nothing" approach has got to be the pinnacle of irony.

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On 10/26/2021 at 2:01 AM, JiFapono said:

Minshew went 6-6 as a rookie on the Jags.  He completed 60% threw 3,200 yards, 21 TD's and 6 INT's, on the Jags.  

Jets fans are claiming they see special in Zach Wilson, could you imagine what they'd be saying if he put up those numbers? 

 

Hell, if Darnold put up Tua year one numbers, he'd probably still be here.

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