Jets Trade for Flacco

[jgb]

20 minutes ago, doitny said:

oh i agree it is self-protectionism. but everyone does it. in fact i cant think of a situation where a team brought in someone who could give there QB competition. thats why your talking about Trubisky and Minshew, there teams got rid of them for the same reason.

and i agree again about outshining. nobody wants that. just imagine if those guys came here and went 3-3 and then we force Zach in and he goes 1-5. there would be a QB controversy . people would think that Wilson is a bust. thats an unforced error.

so we are in agreement, except for blaming JD. if Urban Meyer was here we would have done the same thing. look around the NFL and EVERYBODY does it. Arizona brought in Brett Hundley to compete with Murray. the Rams brought in Sean Mannion for Goff. they all do it.

so if your looking for smart team management then i dont know where you go for it but if JD wasn't here whoever was would have done the same thing.

as i do research for this i see there is no wiley old vet brought in either. so for all the people who think Flacco should have been here from day one well again nobody does it.

Murray (Hundley), Goff (Mannion), Mayfield (Taylor), Allen(Peterman), Lawrence( CJ. Beathard), Watson(Savage),Big Ben(Maddox), Burrow (Allen, Finely)

they are a bunch of mostly young nobodys. and the one team who has 2 vets in Chicago ( Foles and Daulton) and Fields looks no better than Zach.

so you cant blame JD when he did what every other GM does. 

 

 

 

 

Stop trying to twist the position of those that disagree with you. We are not saying that the Jets should've forced Zach to duke it out with someone in camp (that is what a "competition" is). We are saying JD should have brought in a credible backup QB to the NYJ. 

You are entitled to your opinion but not to mine.

Secondly, yes I can blame him. In Jets current situation it was a sin against sport to not have a credible QB2 to help evaluate our very young playmakers should Zach go down. Even JD has admitted his mistake. Hence the desperate acquisition of Flacco. You're defending a guy who already pled guilty.

 

 

[varjet]

There were many here, including me, who thought that JD/Saleh had a good, long-term plan in place, the Johnsons were staying out of the way and we just had to wait and see how it turned out.  

I think this Flacco trade refutes those conceptions.  

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, varjet said:

There were many here, including me, who thought that JD/Saleh had a good, long-term plan in place, the Johnsons were staying out of the way and we just had to wait and see how it turned out.  

I think this Flacco trade refutes those conceptions.  

JD lost me with his handling of QB2 this off season. This Flacco situation is just the chickens coming home to roost. The mistake was made months ago.

[doitny]

16 minutes ago, jgb said:

 

Stop trying to twist the position of those that disagree with you. We are not saying that the Jets should've forced Zach to duke it out with someone in camp (that is what a "competition" is). We are saying JD should have brought in a credible backup QB to the NYJ. 

You are entitled to your opinion but not to mine.

Secondly, yes I can blame him. In Jets current situation it was a sin against sport to not have a credible QB2 to help evaluate our very young playmakers should Zach go down. Even JD has admitted his mistake. Hence the desperate acquisition of Flacco. You're defending a guy who already pled guilty.

 

 

isnt credible and competition the same thing? if the guy is credible then he would give Zach competition.

cause the 2 names you mentioned (Trubinsky and Minshew) are good and young enough to cause a competition. and controversy. 

or do you just want an old guy like Flacco or Foles.? but nobody does that. didn't you read my post? so if JD did this " sin against the sport" then he has good company cause all the other GMs have done the same thing. 

so your going to kill JD for this. what are you going to say next, i wish we had a GM  like... Cin... did the same thing with there rookie QB...Clev....same thing...Rams...same thing...and on and on it goes.

he has an opening at QB. he signed a QB. he only had 2 with Zach injured and the trade deadline is in 7 days. if White or Johnson get injured then were screwed after that. if one gets hurt after tuesday we could have had Luke Falk here again. so yeas he did panic. 

maybe its analytics or something where they studied it and found out it makes no sense to get an old vet to mentor a rookie QB. or bring in a QB who could challenge a rookie for his job. but it must be something cause the entire NFL does neither.

and if a QB really needs a mentor every team has one. there QB coach. where most like ours are ex QBs. 

[jgb]

13 minutes ago, doitny said:

isnt credible and competition the same thing?

No. 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, doitny said:

oh i agree it is self-protectionism. but everyone does it. in fact i cant think of a situation where a team brought in someone who could give there QB competition. thats why your talking about Trubisky and Minshew, there teams got rid of them for the same reason.

and i agree again about outshining. nobody wants that. just imagine if those guys came here and went 3-3 and then we force Zach in and he goes 1-5. there would be a QB controversy . people would think that Wilson is a bust. thats an unforced error.

so we are in agreement, except for blaming JD. if Urban Meyer was here we would have done the same thing. look around the NFL and EVERYBODY does it. Arizona brought in Brett Hundley to compete with Murray. the Rams brought in Sean Mannion for Goff. they all do it.

so if your looking for smart team management then i dont know where you go for it but if JD wasn't here whoever was would have done the same thing.

as i do research for this i see there is no wiley old vet brought in either. so for all the people who think Flacco should have been here from day one well again nobody does it.

Murray (Hundley), Goff (Mannion), Mayfield (Taylor), Allen(Peterman), Lawrence( CJ. Beathard), Watson(Savage),Big Ben(Maddox), Burrow (Allen, Finely)

they are a bunch of mostly young nobodys. and the one team who has 2 vets in Chicago ( Foles and Daulton) and Fields looks no better than Zach.

so you cant blame JD when he did what every other GM does. 

 

 

 

• Peterman was Buffalo's QB3. The QB2 was McCarron, who was initially getting more than a little chatter - agent-fueled as it may have been - as a UFA who might have QB1 upside upon leaving the Bengals, because he looked pretty good filling in for Dalton for about a month to close out 2015. McCarron was penciled in as the starter as the Bills headed into the draft with the #12 pick, since they didn't have any real assurance of which QB they'd be able to snag. 

• Hundley impresses just about nobody, but he did start most of the season in '17. In between his sub-Wilson performances he also put up a few games with Rodgers numbers. He wasn't a good QB, now or then, but he had some experience and spent a couple years holding a clipboard for Aaron Rodgers (not Sam Darnold) with a HC who was instrumental in reworking Rodgers. That's a player who I think would be of more help - and reason to not surrender a pick for Joe Flacco - should Murray have gotten injured asa a rookie.

• Tyrod Taylor was a decent game manager for years, and was a starter for the prior 3 seasons heading into 2018. He's not nearly as clownshoes of a QB2 as White (or the winner of the super-competitive White/Morgan showdown). He's as good a veteran QB2 as a team can pair with its rookie QB, seeing how he's a borderline starter anyway. 

• Beathard had multiple starts in each of the 3 prior seasons. Arguably he's exactly the QB that Douglas should have signed in March. He may not be as good a QB as Minshew or Trubisky, but that's balanced out by his multi-year experience in the very system they were seeking to install. 

• Savage was the starter week 1. Watson had to win the job first and then Savage got pulled after half a game because O'Brien had seen enough (and had enough experience to have some confidence in throwing Watson out there). That said, Savage had been on the team in the same offensive system for the prior 2 years (unlike White or Morgan), with an experienced OC/QBC as his HC.

• Maddox was an NFL veteran of many seasons and, like Savage, was the actual opening day starter. So clearly Pittsburgh didn't head into the season thinking they had no choice but to put the rookie out there week 1.

• Finley was on the team the prior year for Cincy, who wasn't installing a new offense that allegedly takes 2+ years to "get it" and it's not a minor point that Burrow was not at all considered a raw rookie. He was quite polished, and if there was any knock on him it was his alleged limited upside due to not having Wilson-like arm strength.

So these are all quite different than taking a pretty raw (we now see, more than pretty raw) rookie, in the offense's first year in this system, and the only one who's been in it before is the one installing it.

I don't think Douglas has been all bad, but this was a clear blunder to have a raw rookie whose first snap in week 1 already made him the most experienced QB on the roster in terms of facing starting-caliber NFL defenses.

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, jgb said:

 

Stop trying to twist the position of those that disagree with you. We are not saying that the Jets should've forced Zach to duke it out with someone in camp (that is what a "competition" is). We are saying JD should have brought in a credible backup QB to the NYJ. 

You are entitled to your opinion but not to mine.

Secondly, yes I can blame him. In Jets current situation it was a sin against sport to not have a credible QB2 to help evaluate our very young playmakers should Zach go down. Even JD has admitted his mistake. Hence the desperate acquisition of Flacco. You're defending a guy who already pled guilty.

 

 

What makes you say that?  I don't believe that to be the case at all.

JD took a calculated risk.  He had a choice of paying a Joe Flacco type $3mm(I believe he has $1mm base and $2.5 signing bonus) or so and hoping ZW doesn't get hurt.  If he does, worst case is it cost a 6th rounder to go get him.

Rolling the dice to save $3mm in cap dollars vs. the potential cost of a 6th round pick.  Very reasonable assessment of the situation.

[sec101row23]

 

[Matt39]

Flacco got the work from home clause in the contract.

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

What makes you say that?  I don't believe that to be the case at all.

JD took a calculated risk.  He had a choice of paying a Joe Flacco type $3mm(I believe he has $1mm base and $2.5 signing bonus) or so and hoping ZW doesn't get hurt.  If he does, worst case is it cost a 6th rounder to go get him.

Rolling the dice to save $3mm in cap dollars vs. the potential cost of a 6th round pick.  Very reasonable assessment of the situation.

Hoping doesn't get hurt. My criticism that JD screwed the pooch is doubly emphasized if that was his strategy. 

Also, Minshew is making $850,000. No reason to not have him here. None.

[sec101row23]

 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Why is it odd? And it’s a fn 6th round pick. Who the hell cares??

Mike white is playing and Flacco gets here when he gets here. He wasn’t traded for to immediately fill the spot and save the day. 

Eagles called the jets and offered him to us. It’s not like JD panicked and asked around for a QB. 

[Barry McCockinner]

JD is just playing 3D chess here. He's raped opposing GM's so hard on his trades so far he had to throw someone a bone in order for his calls to be taken in the future. 

[dcJet]

4 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Why is it odd? And it’s a fn 6th round pick. Who the hell cares??

Mike white is playing and Flacco gets here when he gets here. He wasn’t traded for to immediately fill the spot and save the day. 

Eagles called the jets and offered him to us. It’s not like JD panicked and asked around for a QB. 

First I'm seeing this.  

Good, this makes JD not panicky, but still incompetent.

[docdhc]

4 hours ago, jgb said:

 

Yeah! We don't believe in incremental improvements. If any move won't single-handedly make us a contender, useless!

Seriously? Jets fans of all people taking an "all or nothing" approach has got to be the pinnacle of irony.

I don’t think of Minshew as anything more than possibly a good backup QB which doesn’t constitute any real improvement. 

[munchmemory]

4 minutes ago, docdhc said:

I don’t think of Minshew as anything more than possibly a good backup QB which doesn’t constitute any real improvement. 

How many backup QBs have thrown for 37 TDS and 11 INTs in two years/23 games?  We would kill for that ratio.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

 

Wait, what?  So they made this trade knowing he wasnt going to be available till Friday, knowing he wont play Sunday or possibly the next and they had no idea the severity of the injury and time line at this point?

what the actual f is going on here?

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

 

 

Just now, JiFapono said:

Wait, what?  So they made this trade knowing he wasnt going to be available till Friday, knowing he wont play Sunday or possibly the next and they had no idea the severity of the injury and time line at this point?

what the actual f is going on here?

omg

[JustInFudge]

57 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Why is it odd? And it’s a fn 6th round pick. Who the hell cares??

Mike white is playing and Flacco gets here when he gets here. He wasn’t traded for to immediately fill the spot and save the day. 

Eagles called the jets and offered him to us. It’s not like JD panicked and asked around for a QB. 

[sec101row23]

1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

Wait, what?  So they made this trade knowing he wasnt going to be available till Friday, knowing he wont play Sunday or possibly the next and they had no idea the severity of the injury and time line at this point?

what the actual f is going on here?

The whole situation just seems like nobody thought this through and reacted irrationally.  

[JustInFudge]

49 minutes ago, dcJet said:

First I'm seeing this.  

Good, this makes JD not panicky, but still incompetent.

wait, what?  How does this make it better?  lmfao.  Do you buy sh*t from telemarketers? 

[mrcoops]

1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

Wait, what?  So they made this trade knowing he wasnt going to be available till Friday, knowing he wont play Sunday or possibly the next and they had no idea the severity of the injury and time line at this point?

what the actual f is going on here?

I don't think it's an injury, I think it was reported as a personal issue for Flacco and the Jets knew about it before the trade.

Explains why Josh Johnson was protected this week, as he will be active as the #2.

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, mrcoops said:

I don't think it's an injury, I think it was reported as a personal issue for Flacco and the Jets knew about it before the trade.

Explains why Josh Johnson was protected this week, as he will be active as the #2.

No, I meant, they accepted the trade not knowing the severity of Wilson's injury but knowing, Flacco wont start this week and not really even sure he'll be able to start next week, when Zach might be back 100% healthy.

It's just some of the dumbest sh*t I've ever heard. 

 

[munchmemory]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

 

You never believe the next administration could possibly supplant the ignorance of the previous one.  Yet, they do.   So, the Jets actually pay JD and Saleh in dollars or old lira?

[mrcoops]

5 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

No, I meant, they accepted the trade not knowing the severity of Wilson's injury but knowing, Flacco wont start this week and not really even sure he'll be able to start next week, when Zach might be back 100% healthy.

It's just some of the dumbest sh*t I've ever heard. 

 

Ahh, gotcha.

It was a weird trade, all things considered.

Hopefully, it was one of those deals where the pick isn't paid if the player doesn't play- because I'm not sure Flacco will play a down for the Jets this season.

[Irish Jet]

9 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

No, I meant, they accepted the trade not knowing the severity of Wilson's injury but knowing, Flacco wont start this week and not really even sure he'll be able to start next week, when Zach might be back 100% healthy.

It's just some of the dumbest sh*t I've ever heard. 

 

Even thinking about it makes my head hurt.

They could have just f*cking extended him. What is happening? 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

 

They couldn't get this guy on a flight a day or more earlier?

It seems the irony is lost on no one that a team named the Jets are apparently airplane-challenged.  We suck at everything, so why not this, too.  

[Lith]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

They couldn't get this guy on a flight a day or more earlier?

It seems the irony is lost on no one that a team named the Jets are apparently airplane-challenged.  We suck at everything, so why not this, too.  

A flight?  He was in Philadelphia.  They could have sent an uber to get him to Florham Park by Tuesday.

[sourceworx]

This signing reeks of a panic move. Reminds me of Idzik's trade for Percy Harvin.

JD may very well be on the hot seat. Remember, Woody didn't hire him. He may want to bring in someone he picked, which is scary.

[Bleedin Green]

The excuse-making for an unmatched level of incompetence at the QB position is really laughable.

As a quick reminder to everyone, the Jets went through camp with 3 backup QB options to Wilson, and at this point the result is that they all apparently fail in comparison to a washed-up old backup they got rid of earlier this year.  One wasn't even worthy of a roster spot a year after drafting him, another is no better than practice squad and considered unqualified to even be promoted as a third stringer, and then of course the "winner" of the #2 spot has a talent level that yields hysterical panic from the team the moment he actually has to perform his job for even a fraction of one game, needing to spend more to desperately bring back the guy who they previously wanted less than any of them.

At this stage, JD has pretty much put his cards out on the table that he is completely unqualified to evaluate NFL QBs (although that's seemingly not the only position), because while he cannot figure out what the right answer is, even he can clearly see that he's turned out to be wrong over and over again.

[Bleedin Green]

44 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

No, I meant, they accepted the trade not knowing the severity of Wilson's injury but knowing, Flacco wont start this week and not really even sure he'll be able to start next week, when Zach might be back 100% healthy.

It's just some of the dumbest sh*t I've ever heard. 

 

Yeah, it does certainly add another layer of stupidity onto the deal, which is no easy task.  It's already an idiotic panic move regardless, but for a guy who's not even going to be here, at that point you might as well wait until Monday when you see how White/Johnson did and have another week's worth of info on Wilson.

[Bleedin Green]

5 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

This signing reeks of a panic move. Reminds me of Idzik's trade for Percy Harvin.

JD may very well be on the hot seat. Remember, Woody didn't hire him. He may want to bring in someone he picked, which is scary.

Woody is very far from a good owner, but there is overwhelming evidence that shows he is still a far more competent decision-maker than little brother Fredo Johnson, as little as that may be saying.

[Sperm Edwards]

28 minutes ago, Lith said:

A flight?  He was in Philadelphia.  They could have sent an uber to get him to Florham Park by Tuesday.

True. I didn't know where he was yesterday; they don't report back until like Wednesdays usually, right? 

Regardless, it's crazy that it took the Jets about the same 3 days to get him from Philadelphia to Florham Park that it'd take me to ****ing walk that same distance.

[varjet]

The season is lost here.  That draft pick we traded for Flacco could be the next PK or punter, or better.

The Jets were better off rolling with Josh Johnson, Mike White and whomever else they could pick up off of someone's practice squad than trading for Flacco.  Trading a draft pick for Flacco after Wilson suffered a reasonably foreseeable injury was a really bad look.  

[jgb]

1 hour ago, docdhc said:

I don’t think of Minshew as anything more than possibly a good backup QB which doesn’t constitute any real improvement. 

Your post is internally inconsistent.