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2021 Jets through 1st Quarter 0-44


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54 minutes ago, Paradis said:

So some fans continue to give Mike Lafleur a pass…. Yet first quarters are when the offense is working off of scripted plays — based on film and preparation…. 

So if Mike doesn’t epically suck, then Wilson must be the worst QB. Both can’t be untrue. We’re in uncharted waters having scored zero points in 6 games through first quarters. 

Jets find new lows annually, don’t they. 

Wilson performing better on non scripted plays in the 2H of games already sheds light on this, no?

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Saleh's tenure couldn't have started any worse. It's just been spectacularly disappointing. 

He talked a lot in the offseason about the importance of overcoming adversity and that there definitely going to be tough times ahead. I guess here's his chance

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scripting is idiocy in any case. imo.  I know, i know all sorts of guys make it work.  I hate it.

it is once again over coaching  over analysis over prep.

You scout a team before you play them and then the 1st play of the game they have 8 men up when you really did not expect that...oh but the script says slam up the gut with the RB.

The only time i'm fine with some scripted plays is if i have a vet qb who i totally trust to change the play.  If i have a rookie you are forcing him into bad plays right away.

Dumb.

If you are a smart oc and play caller no need at all for scripting.

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2 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Saleh's tenure couldn't have started any worse. It's just been spectacularly disappointing. 

He talked a lot in the offseason about the importance of overcoming adversity and that there definitely going to be tough times ahead. I guess here's his chance

Agreed the worst part this is not a young aggressive team on offense or defense that will make mistakes but will make plays.  It is a slow tentative conservative team who still gets hammered.

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Until they get the 1st quarter solved, the jets aren't going to win many games, if not any. The opposing teams take way too much advantage and run away from the game. If not for some ok 2nd halves the jets would look way worse.

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Here’s the problem, and the solution.

Problem. Our offense is bad. From the OC to the QB, the OL, the WRs and the RBs.
Solution. When they stop being terrible, or we get better players, things will get better.

You’re welcome.

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3 hours ago, ryu79 said:

Wilson performing better on non scripted plays in the 2H of games already sheds light on this, no?

i've hung a lantern on that, and the got a luke warm reception at best. The only game we won (and even competed in really) was largely on the heels of Wilson bootlegging and scrambling to go off script. Take it for what it's worth

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3 hours ago, Paradis said:

So some fans continue to give Mike Lafleur a pass…. Yet first quarters are when the offense is working off of scripted plays — based on film and preparation…. 

So if Mike doesn’t epically suck, then Wilson must be the worst QB. Both can’t be untrue. We’re in uncharted waters having scored zero points in 6 games through first quarters. 

Jets find new lows annually, don’t they. 

Has any team since the  American Professional Football Association began in 1920 ever gone through this kind of drought? Fascinating. 

spock.gif

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For the passive reader/curious poster -- I'm honestly not trying to find the next scapegoat. I haven't been an active voice in "Fire Joe, fillet Rob and nuke the team..."  I wanted Lafleur to work. On paper it seemed like a good idea. 

But i've watched enough football to recognize when a team's struggles are more than a product of "learning curves" and bumps. The Jets offensive plan and approach isn't working.  

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Coach LaFleur has been trying to establish the run game early in these games. Unfortunately outside of week 2 (when Zach had his meltdown) it hasn’t worked. 
 

I think the missing piece of this offense is a legit TE who can scare the defense. When the Jets run these heavy two TE sets the D are keying on the run. 

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16 minutes ago, DrFrasierCrane said:

Coach LaFleur has been trying to establish the run game early in these games. Unfortunately outside of week 2 (when Zach had his meltdown) it hasn’t worked. 
 

I think the missing piece of this offense is a legit TE who can scare the defense. When the Jets run these heavy two TE sets the D are keying on the run. 

I wish it was that simple. 

the combination of things happening IMO...

  • Playcalling; is an art that doesn't happen automatically. There's innate sense of "what is the right play" that is eluding Mike rn
  • not balancing the act of scheming to your current talent, and getting the roster to learn to execute the future state playbook.
  • being obtuse about where your players are at developmentally. eg E Moore is not ready to be your FT split end (X). 
  • Not understanding how to develop your QB's confidence. And limitations at the moment.
  • Players winning when they need to. 
  • And totally expecting your running game to materialize out of thin air in zone blocking scheme because Shanny did it.
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56 minutes ago, Paradis said:

For the passive reader/curious poster -- I'm honestly not trying to find the next scapegoat. I haven't been an active voice in "Fire Joe, fillet Rob and nuke the team..."  I wanted Lafleur to work. On paper it seemed like a good idea. 

But i've watched enough football to recognize when a team's struggles are more than a product of "learning curves" and bumps. The Jets offensive plan and approach isn't working.  

Since you seem to be able to decipher what that approach is, could you shed some light on it. I cant figure out WTF they trying to do. 

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5 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Agreed the worst part this is not a young aggressive team on offense or defense that will make mistakes but will make plays.  It is a slow tentative conservative team who still gets hammered.

Jets should study 2 games this week. Browns v. Chiefs from week one, and Lions v. Rams from this week.

When you are totally outmatched, you need to introduce the wild card factor.

While true that in both games the inferior team lost, they made a game of it. And -- perhaps selfishlessly -- they were entertaining as Hell to watch.

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5 hours ago, Beerfish said:

scripting is idiocy in any case. imo.  I know, i know all sorts of guys make it work.  I hate it.

it is once again over coaching  over analysis over prep.

You scout a team before you play them and then the 1st play of the game they have 8 men up when you really did not expect that...oh but the script says slam up the gut with the RB.

The only time i'm fine with some scripted plays is if i have a vet qb who i totally trust to change the play.  If i have a rookie you are forcing him into bad plays right away.

Dumb.

If you are a smart oc and play caller no need at all for scripting.

Respectfully disagree.  It's not just about moving the ball.  It's about getting an early glimpse at how defenses have spent the week preparing for you and who is going to match up against who.  Some of the best offensive coaches will send out a different personnel package on every play of their first drive to see how defenses react.  I remember reading years ago that Andy Reid would sometimes run an entire series to start the game without using the same personnel grouping or formation twice.

It's also about trying to get the offense in rhythm by having them go out and run the same 15 or so plays in the same exact order that they've done multiple times during the week.

Once you've ID'd what defenses are doing and gotten your offense settled in, you start running what you think will work.

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7 hours ago, Paradis said:

So some fans continue to give Mike Lafleur a pass…. Yet first quarters are when the offense is working off of scripted plays — based on film and preparation…. 

So if Mike doesn’t epically suck, then Wilson must be the worst QB. Both can’t be untrue. We’re in uncharted waters having scored zero points in 6 games through first quarters. 

Jets find new lows annually, don’t they. 

Much better point if Zach isn't failing to locate open receivers.  If Wilson makes quicker decisions and more accurate throws, this isn't an issue.  Had two easy big completions on opening series vs Atlanta and did nothing.  Instead of Corey Davis walking in for an easy TD, it's a punt.

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28 minutes ago, jgb said:

Saleh should tell LaFleur to script the first 20 plays for the next game then hold a ceremony to bury them in front of the team.

Saleh should hire a ghost writer to script the first series.  

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What happened to throwing the playbook in the garbage once you’re down 14-0  in the first quarter?

 

24 scripted plays are way too many. I think we were behind 3 scores and we only ran 14 plays. And the offense has no creativity and is so predictable. That’s how you get your qb killed.

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It’s been a combination of bad play calls, the players, and defense 

runs for little to no gain on 1st and second down constantly setting up 3rd and 7 plus 

subsequently blown protections and dropped balls killing drives early - how many times have we early earth drives end because of one of those two things? I believe every game 

then the defense allows very long drives eating most of the first quarter clock. I don’t think we’ve had more than 3 possessions in the first even tho we’ve gone 3 and out a ton 

 

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51 minutes ago, BP said:

What happened to throwing the playbook in the garbage once you’re down 14-0  in the first quarter?

 

24 scripted plays are way too many. I think we were behind 3 scores and we only ran 14 plays. And the offense has no creativity and is so predictable. That’s how you get your qb killed.

Seriously. How can we trust LaFleur to predict the future when he hasn't even shown that he can predict the present?

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9 hours ago, Paradis said:

So some fans continue to give Mike Lafleur a pass…. Yet first quarters are when the offense is working off of scripted plays — based on film and preparation…. 

So if Mike doesn’t epically suck, then Wilson must be the worst QB. Both can’t be untrue. We’re in uncharted waters having scored zero points in 6 games through first quarters. 

Jets find new lows annually, don’t they. 

Who's been giving him a pass? He's bashed here everyday and rightfully so

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44 minutes ago, jgb said:

Seriously. How can we trust LaFleur to predict the future when he hasn't even shown that he can predict the present?

They aren’t evolving or learning from their mistakes. That is a huge concern to me. That means they’re in over their heads.

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5 hours ago, Paradis said:

For the passive reader/curious poster -- I'm honestly not trying to find the next scapegoat. I haven't been an active voice in "Fire Joe, fillet Rob and nuke the team..."  I wanted Lafleur to work. On paper it seemed like a good idea. 

But i've watched enough football to recognize when a team's struggles are more than a product of "learning curves" and bumps. The Jets offensive plan and approach isn't working.  

At this point in the season,  there should be signs of improvement. Sunday was a giant step backwards. This was not the Tom Brady Pats. 

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5 hours ago, Paradis said:

I wish it was that simple. 

the combination of things happening IMO...

  • Playcalling; is an art that doesn't happen automatically. There's innate sense of "what is the right play" that is eluding Mike rn
  • not balancing the act of scheming to your current talent, and getting the roster to learn to execute the future state playbook.
  • being obtuse about where your players are at developmentally. eg E Moore is not ready to be your FT split end (X). 
  • Not understanding how to develop your QB's confidence. And limitations at the moment.
  • Players winning when they need to. 
  • And totally expecting your running game to materialize out of thin air in zone blocking scheme because Shanny did it.

There's also the "complementary football" aspect on top of this. 

Against Tennessee, we had possession first and went three and out & punted. We gave up a long FG drive on the first opposition possession, had a 5 play drive & punted, then gave up another long drive that resulted in a FG. ToP was 4:1 in the opponent's favour, and they had run 23 plays while we had run 8. By this point we were 6-0 down and had attempted four runs and four passes.

Against Atlanta, we gave up a long FG drive on the first opposition possession, went three and out & punted, then gave up another long drive that resulted in a TD. ToP was 4:1 in the opponent's favour, and they had run 25 plays while we had run 3. By this point we were down 10-0 and had attempted two runs and one pass.

Against NE, we gave up a long TD drive on the first opposition possession, went three and out & punted, then gave up another long drive that resulted in a TD. ToP was 3:1 in the opponent's favour, and they had run 13 plays while we had run 3. By this point we were 14-0 down and had attempted two runs and one pass. Granted there was still a lot of Q1 left in NE by this point and we put together a decent drive afterwards, but the fact remains we were again two scores down after having run a total of three offensive plays.

While a lot of the blame has to sit with the offense for not sustaining a drive, we also have to have some sort of hope that the defense can get off the field at some point. The opening opponent's drives have been 14 plays (FG), 16 plays (FG), 7 plays (TD). The 7 was only because we gave up so many chunk plays that covered 70 yards before we knew it.

This further plays into what we do on special teams / overall game management. It seems like we always defer possession until the second half, which means that it is more likely the opponent will have more Q1 possession, all things being equal. Why do we not take the ball first and see if we can break that cycle? Let the offense get first crack and maybe give the defense a lead to defend for once? Everything just seems so samey right now, and the next game plan is ... "let's try to execute better". I'd actually love it if we tried a fake punt or something like that early on, just to break the monotony and the inevitability of it all. Get some excitement going to pump up the crowd.

 

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2 hours ago, AFJF said:

Respectfully disagree.  It's not just about moving the ball.  It's about getting an early glimpse at how defenses have spent the week preparing for you and who is going to match up against who.  Some of the best offensive coaches will send out a different personnel package on every play of their first drive to see how defenses react.  I remember reading years ago that Andy Reid would sometimes run an entire series to start the game without using the same personnel grouping or formation twice.

It's also about trying to get the offense in rhythm by having them go out and run the same 15 or so plays in the same exact order that they've done multiple times during the week.

Once you've ID'd what defenses are doing and gotten your offense settled in, you start running what you think will work.

The Pats gave the Jets the blueprint on how develop your O throughout the game. Find something that works and keep running it until they stop it. One thing that worked getting Moore the ball on WR screens and the end around.  Moore can beat people close to the LOS in one on one matchups and we took 6 games to figure that out  and never went back to them.  

 

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Next week. Bengals win coin toss, defer 

Jets get ball. 
 

1st down. Run up the middle Carter

2nd down: Run to the left hole Carter

3rd down a 5: Incomplete pass to the sideline 

Punt 

Take it to the bank 

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2 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Next week. Bengals win coin toss, defer 

Jets get ball. 
 

1st down. Run up the middle Carter

2nd down: Run to the left hole Carter

3rd down a 5: Incomplete pass to the sideline 

Punt 

Take it to the bank 

No turnover? You going homer on us?

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7 hours ago, Beerfish said:

scripting is idiocy in any case. imo.  I know, i know all sorts of guys make it work.  I hate it.

it is once again over coaching  over analysis over prep.

You scout a team before you play them and then the 1st play of the game they have 8 men up when you really did not expect that...oh but the script says slam up the gut with the RB.

The only time i'm fine with some scripted plays is if i have a vet qb who i totally trust to change the play.  If i have a rookie you are forcing him into bad plays right away.

Dumb.

If you are a smart oc and play caller no need at all for scripting.

I always thought the script was a select series of plays chosen based on the opponent and how we scouted them.

With LaFleur it sounds like the same script for everybody.

I dunno.

Its NEVER been easier to score in this league though. There’s really no excuse.

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How bout  the days when QB's actually called their own plays... OC's were there to go over game plans and that's it. It was the QB's responsibility to understand the game plan and know his opponent. If you believe in your QB give him the reins and let him call plays in the huddle with an audible in his pocket. If we want to know if Wilson is the real deal, that will tell us all we need to know, because we already know LaFleur is in over his head.

The reason I say that is the one article I read back when we were drafting Wilson, on how he went to his OC at BYU and said on the first play I'm going to throw a touchdown to my receiver because I see something in the coverage. So it can't hurt when he eventually comes back, but I know that will never happen.

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10 hours ago, Paradis said:

So some fans continue to give Mike Lafleur a pass…. Yet first quarters are when the offense is working off of scripted plays — based on film and preparation…. 

So if Mike doesn’t epically suck, then Wilson must be the worst QB. Both can’t be untrue. We’re in uncharted waters having scored zero points in 6 games through first quarters. 

Jets find new lows annually, don’t they. 

I'm sorry, I must disagree.

The scripted plays can be fine but the players on the team aren't capable of executing.  That's the reality that I think you guys are all having a hard time accepting.  This is the youngest team in the NFL, apparently the slowest, integrating a new, complicated scheme with a rookie QB (that mostly hasn't been good but shown signs he can be special)

I honestly think the Jets are sticking to a plan.  That plan is to properly integrate an offense for the future.  Wins and Losses aren't the top priority this year.  This was always going to be a lost year.

(I must say though, the first two scripted plays last week is a big mind boggling)

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